Right now I have a Kawasaki Ninja 650r, which I like, but a monster has been calling me for some time now. I think I am about one to two months from making the plunge, so I had a few questions.
Between the S2R and the M1000S, are there any differences besides the obvious? SSS, stripe, exhaust, etc.
Is the S4R a huge step up in power from the S2R1K? Both will be a step up from my ninja (62 horsepower), but it looks like the S2R1k just has about twenty more horsepower. It looks like my ninja is just as fast to 60...not that speed is everything, but I do want a faster bike this time around. I would consider the S4R, I don't quite like the looks as much, but in a way, I think all that extra crap looks kinda cool. My budget is about 7000-9000. Just looking for thoughts on the bikes in general, as well as comparisons between them.
Thanks.
Welcome! There have been plenty of discussions on here about the difference between the 2 valve and 4 valve engines. The 2 valve are lighter and generally quicker-handling. The 4 valve are FAAAAST! I'm sure more people will chime in, but lurk a little deeper and try a search to see what people have already said.
The S2R would be cheaper to maintain and would have more bottom & mid range power compared to the 650R ~
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on September 01, 2008, 07:42:12 AM
The S2R would be cheaper to maintain...
... than the S4R. NOT cheaper than your Ninja.
Just wanted that to be clear. [thumbsup]
Ducati throttles are pretty easy to work with - first half is quiet, sedate city riding, no mess, no fuss. Twist it further though, and [moto]
So even if you buy a big, bad S4R, I think you'd find it very rideable.
Hey, here's an idea: test rides! [thumbsup]
I rode the S4 before before buying the M1000. The 2 main reasons was the slightly cheaper servicing and I preferred the less cluttered look. Yes the 4V motor is a lot more powerful, but I find the M1000 has enough punch for me. The only downside I can really think of is that the 2v is more vibey than the 4v. As far as I am aware there is just the things you have mentioned between the S2R and the M1000, I personally prefer the look of the M1000. And I believe the pipes on the S2R means your foot doesn't sit properly on the peg, so you should at least sit on one.
I have a new S2R 1K and I love it. I will be honest, Iwish it had more power. I'm an American more more more.
the M1000 does not have the lambda sensor, so no closed loop issues
Quote from: locrain on September 01, 2008, 07:29:23 AM
Between the S2R and the M1000S, are there any differences besides the obvious? SSS, stripe, exhaust, etc.
Yes.
The s2r has the plastic tank (I think), which avoids tank dings.
The engine is basically the same, though early DS motors (starting in '03) had a problem with valve guides. There's a good chance that if you buy an earlier DS motor the valve guides will need replacing during on our regular services (if they haven't already been done).
The M1000 doesn't have the lambda sensor, which has let to some stalling problems with s2r1000 if you don't run the stock exhaust. There are some fixes, some of which can be pricey.
The wheels on the s2r1000 are lighter 5 spokes than the 3 spokes on the m1000.
Brakes, suspension and motor are the same.
The s2r1000 has more ground clearance. It's not hard to drag the stock rearsets on a m1000, along with the stock cans. If you're going to get cans and rearsets anyway, it's not an issue.
BTW, one of the reasons you're likely seeing the same acceleration times between your 650R and the 1000 is because of the gearing. The Ducs are geared notoriously tall in order to pass emissions. A simple sprocket change wakes the beast. [thumbsup] [moto]
As for 2v air cooled v. 4v liquid cooled, that's another story. The 4v (s4r) has a bunch more power and feels a bit different. I personally like the 2V more, but that's matter of personal preference. You're right that the 2V has less 'stuff' on the bike. A lot of people bought monsters for that cleaner look, so that sentiment is common around here. That said, the new S4RS is a beast (along with the new S4RT with the 999 motor). Are you talking about the older s4r (with the 996 motor) or the newer models?
Quote from: Spidey on September 01, 2008, 11:28:07 AM
Yes.
The s2r has the plastic tank (I think), which avoids tank dings.
The engine is basically the same, though early DS motors (starting in '03) had a problem with valve guides. There's a good chance that if you buy an earlier DS motor the valve guides will need replacing during on our regular services (if they haven't already been done).
The M1000 doesn't have the lambda sensor, which has let to some stalling problems with s2r1000 if you don't run the stock exhaust. There are some fixes, some of which can be pricey.
The wheels on the s2r1000 are lighter 5 spokes than the 3 spokes on the m1000.
Brakes, suspension and motor are the same.
The s2r1000 has more ground clearance. It's not hard to drag the stock rearsets on a m1000, along with the stock cans. If you're going to get cans and rearsets anyway, it's not an issue.
BTW, one of the reasons you're likely seeing the same acceleration times between your 650R and the 1000 is because of the gearing. The Ducs are geared notoriously tall in order to pass emissions. A simple sprocket change wakes the beast. [thumbsup] [moto]
As for 2v air cooled v. 4v liquid cooled, that's another story. The 4v (s4r) has a bunch more power and feels a bit different. I personally like the 2V more, but that's matter of personal preference. You're right that the 2V has less 'stuff' on the bike. A lot of people bought monsters for that cleaner look, so that sentiment is common around here. That said, the new S4RS is a beast (along with the new S4RT with the 999 motor). Are you talking about the older s4r (with the 996 motor) or the newer models?
Thanks for the help man. Due to my budget constraints, a S4Rs is out of the question, and I think even the T might be too high. So, I think maybe the ones with the 996 mill.
Whatever I get, the exhaust won't stay stock, so that closed loop deal bothers me. How expensive of a fix are we talking here? Would there be he same problem with a cored stock system?
i had a 99 dark m750 and cored the exhaust, it ran great!
You'd not be disappointed with either a S2R1000 or an S4R (up to 06 model). Both bikes make very good torque in the lower range were most of us ride most of the time. The s4r has a bunch more power, but is very docile when ridden sedately. As the tach swings somewhere between 6000-8000 though, the S4R will leave the S2R1K. The newer RS models are great and somewhat smoother, but there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with the demo quattro 996 models.
Take a look on this and some of the other boards and you will find some good deals on an S4R with some aftermarket goodies on em too.
If you look at the weights of the 2V and 4V bikes, you'll see that they weigh very nearly the same - within a couple of pounds and the 4V's only carry like 4 lbs. of coolant. If the stock cans have been replaced with aftermarket, the 4V's get really light. With just a little work an S4R is good for something like 110 -115 or so rear wheel HP. With the same amount of work, the S2R1K is probably good for more like 85-90 HP.
I appreciate the ease of chain maintenance of the SSS bikes too. Chain adjustment is super quick and you can remove a rear wheel in like 2 min. once you're used to it.
Either way, you won't be disappointed with a Monster. [thumbsup]
LA
Locally, there's an almost perfect S4R w/ 8,000 miles for $9000.
My 750 scoots along very nicely, runs out of go about 105mph (changed the sprockets). It's rare I need/want/can use speeds in that range though. If I gave up my 750 (62HP) I would be happy with either the S2R or the S4R, which ever I could score a good deal on ~
JM
I was in the same boat as you a while back, between M1000S, S2R1000, and S4R. I went with the M1000S, and am very happy with it. I decided first to go 2V over the 4V for reasons already stated (which comes down to personal preference) and preferred the look of the classic DSS monsters to the newer ones. Also the closed-loop issues were a deterrent to me. Havne't had valve guide issues yet, but I think i'm going to get it checked out.
Sidebar - how many miles before the valve guide issues typically start cropping up?
Quote from: the_Journeyman on September 02, 2008, 10:17:55 AM
Locally, there's an almost perfect S4R w/ 8,000 miles for $9000.
My 750 scoots along very nicely, runs out of go about 105mph (changed the sprockets). It's rare I need/want/can use speeds in that range though. If I gave up my 750 (62HP) I would be happy with either the S2R or the S4R, which ever I could score a good deal on ~
JM
Picked mine up (2006 s4r) with less than 2400 miles for 9900 otd.
Somebody mentioned a plastic gas tank? Mine has a steel one.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/cgocifer/duc.jpg)
Quote from: herm on September 01, 2008, 10:07:12 AM
the M1000 does not have the lambda sensor, so no closed loop issues
The O2 is the root of all evil! >:(
I purchased an S4RS Tricolore becuase I had lot's of riding experience and thought I might enjoy more power. Was I right. If you have a built in need for speed an S4R could be the ticket. Put a full Termi system on it and look out !! If I sell my Harley I may have to go with a high compression piston kit. WooooooT !!!