My Rs has 4800 miles on it with the DP kit that was installed by the dealer. Its my second monster and 3rd bike overall.
With that being said, today was an amazing day and I went out on a long ride. 50 miles from home I'm blasting around on some winding road, I jump on the throttle and the bike bounces off the rev limiter, and I knew something was wrong.
I have a open clutch cover so I hear the clutch when I leave from a stop and it will groan, or make a squeak for almost a second as the clutch engages and the bike takes off. I have never had any issues with the clutch but its gone, I barely made it home.....but I did get the bike home.
Is this something I will have ANY chance of getting ducati to warranty or should I just take it on the chin and buy a better clutch?
I mean 4800 miles for a clutch lifespan is kinda.....I dunno un-acceptable.
thanks for any advice...
It's a wear item, so I doubt it's warrantied.
I don't know how hard you push your bike, but that number does seem low to me. It's no Rs, but the ole S4R has 27k on the original clutch, and I haven't been remotely nice to it.
Thanks.
Thats what I thought that its a low number too. I completely enjoy my motorcycle but I never felt the pace I ride at (well within my abilities) would result in a clutch failure this rapidly.
And I figure that will happen when I talk to the dealer....Its a wear item....bla bla bla...
Would plates and fibers be enough to fix this from happening again or would I need to get a new basket too?
QuoteWould plates and fibers be enough to fix this from happening again or would I need to get a new basket too?
Give us a pic of it to decide from.
THANKS....
I will be calling my local dealer tomorrow, if they are even un-sure about it being a warranty decision I will be ripping it apart myself.
So hopefully I won't have to post pictures and its a warranty repair, but I have no faith of that happening.....
So in the last 2 months:
My DP steering damper failed
I drop my bike and bend my right rearset and scratch up my billet clutch cover
Clutch fails at 4800 miles
I don't believe your dry clutch is done with 4800 miles even if you ride on the track. Most people get 20-30k miles with some deglazing of the driven plates, a restack, and maybe an additional convex plate. I didn't understand your post...why does bouncing off the rev limiter make you think your clutch is worn out? I bet that if you measure the friction plates width and the total stack width it will be within spec.
Sorry, never mind...I reread your post. You hit the rev limiter because the clutch was slipping. Wow, 4800 miles on a dry clutch...you need an automatic transmission or an electric bike.
Quote from: slash on September 01, 2008, 03:39:27 PM
Sorry, never mind...I reread your post. You hit the rev limiter because the clutch was slipping. Wow, 4800 miles on a dry clutch...you need an automatic transmission or an electric bike.
There's no need for snark. It may be he has a bad part, or some other issue. Implying that it could only be a piss poor rider isn't constructive.
Quote from: someguy on September 01, 2008, 05:24:13 PM
There's no need for snark. It may be he has a bad part, or some other issue. Implying that it could only be a piss poor rider isn't constructive.
Thanks for that, yes I like to think I'm a good rider, and don't ride like a knucklehead. Anything more then 2-3k of rpm and the clutch just can't hold now. All I can figure is that something is wrong with the friction plates or something else has gone wrong in the clutch.
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6130/dsc01657ti0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8108/dsc01651ke5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
I took out my dial caliper, the base of the fiber plate with no friction material on it is ~ 2.5mm
the friction material is ~ 3.0mm to 2.8mm
And my clutch basket looks beat to shit too....
OH and now after putting it all back together the clutch has a metal squeak sound to it....is that the rusty clutch springs or should I take it back apart and put some grease on the rod that moves the pressure plate?
and if it couldn't get anyworse....I picked up a broken piece of a screw driver in my rear tire while I was limping the bike home today.....JOY OF JOYS [bang]
Quote from: jesse370 on September 01, 2008, 08:48:09 PM
I took out my dial caliper, the base of the fiber plate with no friction material on it is ~ .25mm
the friction material is ~ .30mm
I don't have a manual with the minimum specs, but I'd think these numbers are good. Without a minimum spec, though, I cannot confirm my opinion.
Quote from: jesse370 on September 01, 2008, 08:48:09 PM
And my clutch basket looks beat to shit too....
Compare to those pictures, if you think your basket and plates are bad, you'd cr@p if you saw the clutch basket and plates in my ST2.....they have 38k miles on them
Quote from: jesse370 on September 01, 2008, 08:48:09 PM
OH and now after putting it all back together the clutch has a metal squeak sound to it....is that the rusty clutch springs or should I take it back apart and put some grease on the rod that moves the pressure plate?
I don't know about a metallic sound, but the groaning and chirping that you described earlier is common of bikes with a lot of clutch dust in the clutch housing (closed clutch covers) and clutches with glazing on them. I don't worry about it. My ST2 has been groaning like that for over 30k miles. As for grease.....I always put a small amount of grease on the clutch push rod when I have it out. You may also want to change the o-rings. I think all of them are only $1 to replace and most dealers keep them in stock.
after being able to sleep and put together a thought without being tired the sound the clutch makes now is like a old rusty, squeaky hinge.
Now if you think the plates are within spec what would cause the clutch to not be able to hold anything over minor throttle inputs?
AND to increase the this sucks factor.......
I bought the bike used, and neglected to inquire as to its original registration date....OUT OF WARRANTY
[bang]
:( :'(
so with these pictures, should I replace the basket or anything or else or just plates and fibers.
My main concern is what caused it to fail this rapidly, I would hate to just to plates and fibers and have it go again. But really I mean a dry clutch is pretty simple and I just can't see anything causing that to happen this rapidly beyond a bad set of fibers???
Quote from: jesse370 on September 02, 2008, 08:50:33 AM
My main concern is what caused it to fail this rapidly, I would hate to just to plates and fibers and have it go again. But really I mean a dry clutch is pretty simple and I just can't see anything causing that to happen this rapidly beyond a bad set of fibers???
RS owner here with open clutch cover. I've got ~6500 miles on the OEM plates and basket and everything is working fine. When you removed the plates, how were the springs. Could the clutch be slipping because the springs are weak? All the little markings on the pressure plate lines up properly?
The springs seemed fine, but I really have no frame of reference as to what a fresh or brand new spring would feel like in relation to the ones on my bike. I was thinking that the springs could be the problem but after putting a caliper on the fibers I only have less then .5mm of friction material left. Again granted I have no frame of reference as to what a brand new fiber should be at....
Quote from: jesse370 on September 02, 2008, 09:27:37 AM
The springs seemed fine, but I really have no frame of reference as to what a fresh or brand new spring would feel like in relation to the ones on my bike. I was thinking that the springs could be the problem but after putting a caliper on the fibers I only have less then .5mm of friction material left. Again granted I have no frame of reference as to what a brand new fiber should be at....
If they are not less than 36.5 mm and straight they are good.
yeah I'm at 28-30mm....
looks like its time for a upgrade >:(
Quote from: jesse370 on September 02, 2008, 05:13:28 PM
yeah I'm at 28-30mm....
looks like its time for a upgrade >:(
Are they the origional springs? It just dawned on me that you may have change to aftermarket springs. In that case the spec may or may not be valid, so I would check with that manufacturer.
Quote from: howie on September 02, 2008, 05:46:36 PM
Are they the origional springs? It just dawned on me that you may have change to aftermarket springs. In that case the spec may or may not be valid, so I would check with that manufacturer.
OH I just realized you are talking about the springs and I'm talking about my fibers.
I have to put a caliper on them tomorrow after work to give you a idea on that.
You might also consider talking to your dealer. If you are not a stunter, drag racer or in need of an automatic transmission ;) the wear on your clutch is abnormal. Though worn clutch is not warranty, if the wear is from another defect it is. The 2.8 spec on the frictions is also a service limit when inspecting and, I'm sure, is conservative and you should not be getting that extreme slippage.
Most likely causes for abnormal wear and slipping besides the rider are:
Lack of free play at the lever (I don't know if there is or how to on your master). Defect if you didn't touch it.
Weak springs. If they are original this is a defect.
Plates sticking in basket. Unlikely in your case looking at the photos.
Sticking pushrod. Defect
All the plates clean and dry when you pulled them out?
For the clutch to give up suddenly like that... something fishy there.
Are you sure nothing happened to the clutch when you tipped over?
That basket's a bit beat up, but not ready for replacement from what I can see in that pic.
Also, we're assuming that's the original clutch... it may not be...
Can you shoot a better-focused pic of those plates?
Quote from: Speeddog on September 03, 2008, 12:11:18 AM
All the plates clean and dry when you pulled them out?
For the clutch to give up suddenly like that... something fishy there.
Are you sure nothing happened to the clutch when you tipped over?
That basket's a bit beat up, but not ready for replacement from what I can see in that pic.
Also, we're assuming that's the original clutch... it may not be...
Can you shoot a better-focused pic of those plates?
All of the plates were clean and dry, they were rusty and everything but clean and dry
Yeah I'm positive nothing happened to the clutch when the bike tipped over in my garage, only the very bottom of the clutch cover had a scratch on it, and didn't bend or anything....that clutch cover is burly as hell.
My thought process for replacing the basket was I had no clue what caused this so I wanted to replace anything that came in contact with the clutch so that I KNOW I have a reliable setup and won't have more issues 5k down the road. I know its flawed thinking but I just want to know that what ever caused it has been removed.
I would HOPE its the original clutch, I bought the bike from my local ducati dealer when it had 800 miles on it (he was still a baby) And I put 4k on it in a year.
I can try to shoot a better picture, my camera was getting all messed up trying to focus on the friction material for some reason.
When I went out last night to look at everything again I took a really good look at my stock clutch cover....The inside of it is coated in friction material, this was something I looked over when I was installing my clutch cover because this was the first time I was opening up a ducati clutch and I figured thats what it would look like. Looking back on it now, I think the previous owner or someone at the dealership was probably hamfisted when it comes to a clutch. I had noticed my engagement point on the clutch getting farther out, but again I just assumed everything was fine because the bike was so new and it ran great. And the engagement was farther out, but not to a point that I would've thought this was a issue to be concerned with.... ???
Speeddog, I'm looking at overkill as far as replacing stuff for some piece of mind, if I leave the basket alone will that effect the lifespan of the new clutch? Its not that much more money to add one of those in if everything will last longer in the end. While I'm in there I'm going to replace the pressure plate and springs also and with that the plates and basket I'm flirting with slipper clutch territory.
And thats another thing that I'm thinking about, in the LONG term would it be better to spend the extra coin and drop a slipper in there? I was looking at that motowheels unit for a little over a grand with plates and fibers.
At about 26,000 mi. and I believe I'm on the fourth set of clutch plates. I think I got about 6500 out of the OEM's. The red Barnetts that you can get from Chris at Ca-Cycle Works work well, but not as long as the OEM units I believe. OEM units are on the order of $100 more than the Barnetts.
I think the thickness of the unused fibers is something like .135" - the stack height is probably too short for the springs to make the unit lock up completely.
I went with the DP pressure plate that comes with buttons and stainless springs - under $200 I think. Your basket should be good for several clutch packs before it's done for.
I also used a Yoyodyne slipper on my old S4R and it worked very well and cheap tool. The plates I used with it were the red Barnetts and didn't last much over about 6,000 either.
Many people get a whole lot more mileage on a clutch, But I can't seem to do it. I use a 14t front sprocket and I don't slip the clutch much to pull off. I also always go to neutral at stops too.
LA
My s4rs clutch slipped pretty bad stock. I put a vented cover on - for looks - and then I could hear it slipping when I cranked on the gas in first gear. I replaced the stock springs with Motowheels SS - for looks - but the slipping stopped with the new springs. I've only got 4500 miles on my bike so I don't know how long the clutch will last - so far so good.
I talked to the guys at motowheels and they brought up the same point you just touched on. With gear I'm a duce and a half, and couple that with my bike and those springs may be at the limit of what they can hold?
I dunno, ordering parts as we speak ;D
Quote from: jesse370 on September 03, 2008, 04:34:18 PM
With gear I'm a duce and a half, and couple that with my bike and those springs may be at the limit of what they can hold?
With gear, I'm around 260-270 and don't have any problems with the clutches on my ST2 (38k miles) and the 748 (17k miles). The newest members of the family to hit the road, the '87 Paso, '01 M900ie, and another '98 ST2 don't slip either, so I sure wouldn't think it is a spring/pressure plate issue.......Heck, in 2005 my wife and I road 2-up on the ST2 for about 9k miles.......and that was about 500 pounds with both of us in gear. The clutch never slipped the first time.
I think they were thinking it could've been a contributing factor....I'm grasping at straws but to me it kinda made sense, the bike makes a ton of power and I ride in what I like to consider a state of controlled aggression.
But in the end I have no real clue WHAT caused it and WHAT didn't, all I do know is I have a motowheels slipper on the way with surflex plates and when I get my bike back together will be a happy day.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR EVERYONE THAT TRIED TO HELP ME TROUBLE SHOOT THIS ISSUE. You guys rule.
I'm sure you will enjoy the slipper clutch, but they are somewhat difficult to install. $175 and 30 min. and you're back on the road with a new clutch pack. The clutch basket looked bad, but wasn't. That's pretty much normal wear for the miles you have.
OEM springs weren't your problem, but new clutch packs come with new springs too.
If you really back it into turns you will like the slipper clutch. The only thing I didn't like was when I killed my battery. You can't bump start one.
LA
My reason for doing this and replacing everything was ANYTHING that could've caused the issue is now in a parts bin. You can't put a price on piece of mind.....(well you can actually and its a little over a thousand bucks)
As for bump starting the bike. I already killed my battery on my Rs once, and was not able to bump start that damn bike. I burned myself out trying....Everytime I got going fast enough to bump it, the engine compression would just keep the motor locked up and drag the rear tire.
So if I do it again.....well I will just walk the hell home ;D
What gear did you try to bump start in?
Second is recommended.
Not that twins don't suck to bump-start anyways.
Yea, second works, but if you have really killed the battery - to the point that you don't have the voltage to power the fuel injection, if ain't gonna work anyway.
LA
so second is what I needed....
The battery had juice, it could prime the system...Just not enough to start the bike. I eventually got a jump from someone....AND jumping a monster BTW....
make the beast with two backsing SUCKS
So the bike is still in the shop :-[
It was supposed to be done today but they forgot to do the rear tire as well....Not sure how you would be able to TEST RIDE my bike without doing that?
OH thats right they DIDN'T! When I talked to the dealer and asked about my bill cause it seemed low, he said...."shit your rear tire"
So I get a call a few hours later, they were taking the rear tire off and a bunch of my drive pins on the rear had sheared off. They were installing new ones for no charge I just have to pay for them.
SO how common is it for these pins to shear off?
BUT this weekend I will be making a new post with motowheels slipper clutch pron.....
that is IF I can get off my bike for long enough first. 8)