I am new to the motorcycle world....
This came to mind after watching the geico commercial with the two cavemen motorcycle riders.... yes - honestly
Are leather suits worth getting for everyday riders? Or is it better to get a solid leather jacket instead? I assume they are for everyday riders but does everyone get them.. etc etc etc...
any info on the topic - brands, cost, etc would be helpful...
thanks in advance
I'll answer you question broadly, as it seems that you're asking about more than just 1 piece suits and are concerned more generally about what gear to wear.
Wear Protection. Ideally, one should ride with upper and lower body protection at all times. "Body protection" means gear (1) that is made for abrasion resistance, and (2) that also has armor for impact protection. That said, many people elect to only wear a jacket and not to wear protective pants (jeans are
not protective pants). Others elect to wear even less protection. It's their choice, but personally I'd rather sweat than bleed.
Options For Protection. Now, what constitutes lower and upper body protection can vary. You can get an armored 1 piece suit or wear a matching 2 piece suit or wear protective pants and a jacket. You can either wear textile or leather for protection. Leather provides more protection than textile. Fashion leather is not motorcycle leather. That includes many motorcycle-style jackets. Textile is more protection than other fabrics. Fabrics other than leather and textile aren't really protection. Exactly what you wear depends on what sort of riding you do, the weather, your budget and what is most convenient.
Examples Of Gear For Different Uses. I have different gear for different purposes which provide an example of what combination works for me. The brands are in parentheses). I wear 2 piece leathers for commuting or around town (Vanson w/ T-Pro armor). I have a 2 piece textile suit for rain (Aerostich). I wear a leather jacket (Vanson) and textile overpants (Aerostich) for bopping around town. I wear either a leather 1 piece (Vanson) or a 2 piece (Vanson) for spirited riding in the hills. I wear a 1 piece (used to be Vanson, going to buy a Helimot suit) for track riding. I always wear leather gloves (Held, Alpinestars, Toursmaster), moto-specific boots (Sidi Vertigo, Alpinestars WEB), a full face helmet (Shoei X-11) and all my jackets/suits have back protectors (Vanson, Dainese, T-Pro, Aerostich) in them.
The Standard "Full Gear" Kit- Full-face helmet
- Leather gloves
- Boots
- Armored leather or textile Jacket
- Armored motorcycle pants
- Back protector
Gear Cost. Cost is all over the place and depends on whether you buy leather or textile. Leather is generally more expensive. I tend to spend $$$ on my gear. Jackets can be from $100-$650. You can get a good leather jacket for $250-350. Pants are also $100-600, but a good pair will be $150-300. Leather suits can run from $500-$2000 (custom). Most boots are over $100. Gloves are generally $50-100 but can run up to $300. Helmets are $200-$700. You can get a good one for $250-300. These are really, really rough numbers. Browse www.newenough.com to get a sense of prices. If you can give us a sense of your experience level, what type of riding you do and your existing gear, we may be able to give you some more targeted recommendations and approximate cost.
P.S. I *completely* disagree that a two-piece suit is overkill or inconvenient for a short commute. Completely.
Quote from: sbrguy on September 07, 2008, 08:22:38 PM
for everday riding a 1 piece racing suit or even a 2piece leather racing suit is a bit of overkill especially if youdont' hav a long commute.
Only if falls from a short commute hurt less.
I would say if you ride alot and you ride especially agreesive you should most assuredly wear leather jackets and leather pants for the abrasion factor that leather offers.
1.2-1.4 mm cow leather is the thickness you should strive for to get the reccomened abrasion protection in case of a crash on pavement.
Alot of companies offer leather jackets that have a 180 degree zipper underneath up under the back of the jacket that allows you to zip the jacket to their leather pants.
I prefer THAT setup for the street. I have many jackets from the same company ( Dainese ) and a few leather pants from Dainese and I can zip any of the jackets to any of the pants and have basically what is referred to as a 2 piece suit.
You want the Armor that comes in the jackets and the pants to stay where it is intened to and the tighter the jacket and pants fit the better the armor will stay where it is supposed to if a crash occur
Leather is in my opinon and it comes from experience, you get what you pay for. I like Dainese . It is extremely well made and innovative but pricey.
Alpinestars has alot of different leather jackets and although I don't own any yet, I do own some of their racing boots and racing gloves and they seem to be well made and not as expensive as Dainese. Alpinestars and Dainese both have 1 and 2 piece suits , Alpinestars also has leather pants .
Ducati has leather jackets , pants ,1 piece and 2 piece suits ( all made by Dainese ). Alot of Dainese and Ducati come in EU size which means a size 50 EU would be a US 40. Some Ducati comes s,m,l,xl,xxl,xxx,xxxxl . AGV also makes a decent pair of leather pants which I own a pair but in all honesty have never worn. More affordable than either Dainese or Ducati.
There are many other brands like Spidi, Vanson, Rev'it, and others but since I don't own any jackets or pants made by them I can't speak about them.
If I were you, I would 1st get a good leather motorcycle jacket w/Composite Shoulder , Elbow and Forearm Armor. in 1.2-.1-4 mm thick leather. A good back protector like a T-Pro by Forcefield or one of many others like BMW 's that I have used for 3 years or a Dainese of many different types. One that is worn in a pocket of the inside of the jacket , or one that is worn separately under your jacket.
After you have your jacket ( and I would suggest a leather jacket that was made by a brand that allowes you to zip a pair of that company's leather pants ) I'd buy a pair of leather pants w/ Armor in the Knees and Shins. If you live in a warm area get a pair of perforated leather pants and also your jacket. Perforation will allow your leather to flow air so that it will be cooler to wear in warmer weather.
From there you want a good pair of motorcycle protective boots and a pair of motorcycle protective gloves. A proper full face Helmet goes without saying.
Leather IS worth the money , especially if you spend the amount of money that gets you the best you can afford . It needs to fit you right and be made correctly of the highest grade cow leather w/ the best Armor. YKK zippers are usually a good sign.
If you plan on doing track days some tracks may require 1 piece race suits while others will allow a jacket zipped to a pair of leather pants refered to then as a 2 piece so to speak.
I hope this has helped you understand the value of leather if not leather suits, Dolph
Quote from: Spidey on September 07, 2008, 08:47:46 PMFashion leather is not motorcycle leather. That includes many motorcycle-style jackets.
How does an armor shirt (like this one http://www.ridegear.com/rg/item/F-58279/EVS/BJ22-Ballistic-Jersey-with-Kidney-Belt.html) works along with a casual leather jacket?
It has all of the protection (chest, back, elbows etc) as well as the kidney belt so right now while I am learning to ride with lots of things to buy I bought this for the remaining part of the season.
Quote from: sbrguy on September 07, 2008, 11:54:02 PM
i agree with you. I guess he should wear a 1 piece leather suit all the time.
hey while we are at it, people drive in full nascar fire suits and helmets and 4 point seatbelts with hans devices even when going down to 7 eleven bc you never know when someone might tbone you.
I realize you were being sarcastic,
but have you fallen off....yet?
I've seen the injuries associated with...
no gear...
textile gear...
and leather.
I wear leather....every time.
I have purchased the following so far
Scorpion exo-700 helmet
Rev'it monster gloves
Ducati Hi-Tech jacket
I was looking to add to the whole deal - pants or maybe matching jacket and pants and of course boots.
I am also looking for a nice mesh jacket
Again thanks for all the information - there is a lot of information/material/clothing out there
Thanks for the recommendations
I wear a kangaroo 1 piece whenever I am going on a "ride." I wear kevlar jeans and a leather jacket when commuting or running errands. A one piece is not always practical for me.
Quote from: semyhr on September 08, 2008, 01:02:15 AM
How does an armor shirt (like this one http://www.ridegear.com/rg/item/F-58279/EVS/BJ22-Ballistic-Jersey-with-Kidney-Belt.html) works along with a casual leather jacket?
The armored shirt looks like a lot of protection. I know a couple of people who ride with a similar armored shirt, but other that at the track, it always seemed a bit inconvenient to me. Your question was whether your set-up "works." It depends what you mean by works. Basically you have a non-moto leather jacket with a lot of armor. That's whole lot better than nothing and a lot better than wearing a Dickies jacket or even just a straight non-moto leather jacket.
The armor will provide impact resistance (against going boom), and some abrasion resistance when the leather splits or wears through. Many people, for example, wear knee guards under jeans. If they go down, their jeans wear through immediately, but the knee guards will slide on the asphalt. Thus, they work for both impact and abrasion. But not as well as moto-specific pants with armor.
The main problem with your jacket/armor set-up is that you are still relying on a non-moto leather jacket (even "biker" jackets). There are three problems with a non-moto leather jacket.
First, the leather isn't moto grade. Though far superior to denim, it tears or wears through far too easily. Even on a leather jacket that feels to heavy. Moto jackets use specific cow-hides (or kangaroo) for their strength and thickness. They're also built with additional layers of leather in high-impact areas like shoulders and elbows.
Second, a non-moto leather jacket is rarely double stitched and often the stitches are exposed. This means that the seams blow open in a crash. Or if you slide on exposed seams, the seams burn through and the jacket comes apart. Moto jackets are stitched for strength and to keep the critical seams hidden from the pavement in a slide.
Third, a non-moto jacket isn't designed to stay in place in a crash. The sleeve will roll up and the jacket will ride up, exposing your back and chest and your wrists and arms.
Your set-up would work better in slow speed crashes where you're more concerned with impact resistance than abrasion resistance, but at higher speeds--like freeway speeds, your jacket wouldn't last long before you were down to exposed armor and exposed skin. For around town, better to wear a jacket with built-in armor. It's more convenient and provides more protection. For higher speeds--freeway or twisties--I'd much prefer a real armored moto jacket to an armored shirt and a fashion leather jacket.
I hope that helps.
Quote from: kinetic3 on September 08, 2008, 06:04:51 AM
I have purchased the following so far
Scorpion exo-700 helmet
Rev'it monster gloves
Ducati Hi-Tech jacket
I was looking to add to the whole deal - pants or maybe matching jacket and pants and of course boots.
I am also looking for a nice mesh jacket
Again thanks for all the information - there is a lot of information/material/clothing out there
Thanks for the recommendations
Since you already have the Ducati hi-tech jacket, I'd just get some Dainese pants that zip into it. Then you've got a usuable two-piece that you can wear from everything from commuting to track wear. If you're going to start over and get jacket and pants, I think Alpinestars 2 piece suits are a good deal and of good quality. Dainese stuff is nice but expensive. For the price, you can get a custom suit made.
For boots, I love Sidis, but that's because they fit my feet comfortably. You'll have to see what fits you.
Can you recommend any gear to wear under jeans? Any decent "armor" that you can wear around town under jeans? Going out to the bar on friday that you can wear comfortably...
All the info is helpful - I just dont know what to get - maximum protection while maximizing my dollar while **of course** not sacrificing on quality...
thanks again
Quote from: kinetic3 on September 08, 2008, 11:34:11 AM
Can you recommend any gear to wear under jeans? Any decent "armor" that you can wear around town under jeans? Going out to the bar on friday that you can wear comfortably...
All the info is helpful - I just dont know what to get - maximum protection while maximizing my dollar while **of course** not sacrificing on quality...
thanks again
Some choose to wear knee padding, like T-Pro or Alpinestars, underneath or on top of their jeans. Here's the T-Pro Forcefield MX.
(http://www.johnsonleather.com/images/MTB.jpg)
Some purchase moto-specific jeans with Kevlar in them (I'm not a fan as they're still jeans in my book). I just wear Aerostich overpants over my jeans. They have full-length side zippers and knee and hip padding and provide abrasion resistance. When I get to the bar (or whereever), I just fold them up and put them in my messenger bag. They're quicker to put on than knee armor and provide much more protection. They're also my rain pants. The downsides are that they are warmer and that they take up more space in my bag than knee armor. Other companies make less expensive textile overpants including Tourmaster and Alpinestars.
(http://www.aerostich.com/files/images/detailed/155_1lb.jpg)
Spidey, firstly, it's great to see you back and posting....you're a wise man with a huge amount of first hand experience and an invaluable asset to this board.
Newbies (me included) - listen to this man - he's walked away from accidents that would keep us awake at night.
With those Aerostich overpants and oversuits - when you're wearing the pants - what jacket do you run? You have jeans underneath and then a textile jacket on top?
at the end of the day, each of us has to be happy with the level of protection we have sought.
If / when you fall, the question is, with the injuries you sustain, do you ever want to think "If only I had been wearing.....".
worth the money? if you wear them then of course.
I've worn leather on every ride since the late eighties. It took quite a while before I was comfortable enough with myself/my riding/etc. to wear one piece leathers on the street.
Now I don't give a rat's ass what others say about my outfits. I split about 50/50 between zip together two-piece and one piece when I ride. But I go ride mostly from point A back to point A...and when I occassioanlly commute on the bike it's to my own office and nobody tends to give the boss shit for walking in like a power ranger and then changing.
I think most realistic and convenient for a new rider looking for one outfit to do it all would be a perfed two-piece zip together with a thermal lining for chillier days....or an aerostitch type thing.
Quote from: sbrguy on September 08, 2008, 09:19:06 AM
yeah it was sarcastic, but i got a sarcastic answer in response to my original posting so it was appropriate.
also i've seen a lot of car accidents on highways and seriously why aren't those people in formula 1 race suits and helmets using hans devices and 4 point seatbelts and such? afterall they are proven to be much safer in accidents, accoridng to some people there should be no reason why every occupant in a vehicle shouldn't be wearing all this all the time, its obviously worth the extra money when you need it, period.
my point was when i think of "leathers" i think of "track style race suits" not a jacket and pants made of leather, read my original post and that is mentioned, but nobody seems to read taht part..
my original posting said taht the track style suit is not very convenient for everyday use and that the person should get an appropriate leather or textile motorccyle gear that fits their use that they will use.
If you dont' wear a leather race track suit everyday then you obviously agree to some extent.
what i think is more important is wearing gear that is well made with appropirate protection and armor in it, afterall you can be wearing a "leather jacket" made of lambskin that is very thin and no armor in it and it will tear easily on pavement or you could be wearing a textile motorcycle jacket with armor in it that may hold up better. my point is that "leather" in and of itself may not make a garment better but to make a good decision based on getting well made motorcycle specific gear depending on your needs and how you will use them based on real world usage and that may be leather or it may not be.
Actually...
I wear a one piece.
I do a lot of track days and I need gear for that.
I'm not in the position to own more than one set of gear...
so one piece it is.
I wear it on the street and track when I'm riding.
I don't use the bike to go to the store...that's not riding.
...and your argument about fire suits ind HANS systems for every day driving is bullshit.
I've crashed plenty of cars and bikes.
The dangers associated with normal everyday car accidents, not the extremes, are nowhere close to those of bike crashes.
...so, again, when was the last time you fell off?
point A to point A via the most curves. [thumbsup]
going to the store is why they build pickups.
Two adults, no kids, urban living means bikes are perfect for going to the store, plus the bike makes errands fun :)
Most of us compromise somewhere when it comes to riding gear, particularly if we use use our bikes for regular transportation. I consider anything between legal requirement and full gear personal choice and don't preach. On the other hand, as I get older I wear more gear, even for local errands.
Quote from: Spidey on September 08, 2008, 11:45:04 AM
I just wear Aerostich overpants over my jeans. They have full-length side zippers and knee and hip padding and provide abrasion resistance. When I get to the bar (or whereever), I just fold them up and put them in my messenger bag. They're quicker to put on than knee armor and provide much more protection. They're also my rain pants. The downsides are that they are warmer and that they take up more space in my bag than knee armor. Other companies make less expensive textile overpants including Tourmaster and Alpinestars.
(http://www.aerostich.com/files/images/detailed/155_1lb.jpg)
Spidey and I have similar taste in gear. For commuting duty I also wear A'Stitch Darien overpants over my jeans or khakis. Leather jacket if it's nice weather, A'stitch jacket if it isn't.
I also have a pair of Teknic leather pants that I'll wear instead of the A'stitch ones for all day fun rides. They're more comfortable in warm weather.
I always leather gloves and motorcycle boots with armor. No exceptions.
The only time I ride in jeans is if I am going somewhere quick on surface streets, like to dinner or a jaunt to the store...and I accept the added risk.
I only wear a full leather suit on the track...they're a pain to get on and off.
Thanks. It's good to be back.
Quote from: Spider on September 08, 2008, 05:26:21 PM
With those Aerostich overpants and oversuits - when you're wearing the pants - what jacket do you run? You have jeans underneath and then a textile jacket on top?
Like Triple J, I either wear my Aerostich jacket over the pants (I have the Darien 2 piece--I think the same color as him too ;D) or a leather jacket. Generally, I'll wear the Aerostich when it's cold and rainy and I'm just staying in town. All other times, it's leather.
If you and Triple J ride together people must think "aw, what a cute couple!" ;D
Quote from: Spider on September 09, 2008, 05:10:32 PM
If you and Triple J ride together people must think "aw, what a cute couple!" ;D
Prolly would, but I don't think I've ever met him. He lives 1000 miles away.
nicely put, Howie.
I tend to prefer pro gear and pro riding skills work (trackdays). Rather have newbies think it's cool to wear gear than not.
But it's a good reminder that there's a line between showing it's ok and not dorky to wear lots of stuff versus being preachy and annoying about it.
It's funny because we're riding bikes that cross the spectrum. It can be a sprtbike and it can be a relaxed cruiser/commuter. Not many bikes that do both so well so it's unusual to get track guys who race, guys in the middle who sprt ride and occassionally track, and cruiser folks who like to enjoy the scenery and relax on the bike more casually and/or use it for social events.
For the most part we all get along too. ;D
good point Statler....
last week I; commuted to the gym, did a 2 day trip across the state and booked in a track/lesson day. All on the same bike - without mods - they really are special!
and to keep it on topic...
a 2 piece leather suit did the commute, sports touring and track day. Value for money I'd say! ;D
I wear textiles almost exclusively due to their price and level of comfort for everyday riding. Leather provides the most protection but it is also more expensive and much hotter in warmer weather. If you want to wear a leather suit go for it, if you want to wear shorts and sandals that is your choice as well(not a good one but it's a free country, skin grafts are not). I have crashed in textiles and can say first hand they will hold up at posted speed limits.
Quote from: kinetic3 on September 08, 2008, 06:04:51 AM
I am also looking for a nice mesh jacket
Heres a smoking deal on a mesh jacket i have the same one and it flows a ridiculous amount of air its like standing in front of a refrigerator!! Someone has actually crashed in this jacket too and it held up great, i forget who it was though!
Quote from: GLantern on September 12, 2008, 08:44:39 AM
Heres a smoking deal on a mesh jacket i have the same one and it flows a ridiculous amount of air its like standing in front of a refrigerator!! Someone has actually crashed in this jacket too and it held up great, i forget who it was though!
Which jacket? make model? etc?
Quote from: kinetic3 on September 12, 2008, 10:14:58 AM
Which jacket? make model? etc?
Lol sorry i forgot the link in my early morning stupor here it is!!
http://www.newenough.com/closeouts/bargain_basement/teknic/supervent_mesh_motorcycle_jacket.html
I agree with the leather. I went down 4 years ago with a textile jacket and had 50 stitches in my armpit. still not much feeling. Doc said it looked like hamburger. I still dont wear full leather, but my jacket is 80%. And riding boots/gloves.
I'd like to get a leather suit for my recreational riding. For commuting, I wear an Alpinestars leather jacket and FirstGear HT overpants. For most of my weekend errand running I will wear Alpinestars aramid lined jeans and forego the overpants, though I know this isn't an ideal solution.
As with anything, especially motorcycle riding, it's all about risk mitigation and preparation. There is no gear out there that's going to be 100% effective, so it's a matter of how much extra risk you want to accept in order to gain some amount of extra comfort or convenience. Naturally, a 1 piece full leather suit is going to provide the most protection, and I would never look down on someone who always went that route, but for many reasons it is not always practical or desirable. In which case, any gear is better than no gear, and you should dress according to how much risk you're willing to accept.
[roll]
I don't think that was the point of Nate's thread.
But with all that typing you could have at least answered when the last time you fell off was.
It's good to know what kind of riding people do and what their experiences have been when determining how to take their thoughts on gear.