From what I've read, the code on the code card is only used to start the bike using the throttle when the immobilizer has locked the bike. Someone on another thread has also said the code is needed anytime any work is done on the ECU or dash. I know it's been covered, but I've found conflicting info....which is true??
If I buy a bike with red key but no code card, is there any chance I'll be "locked out" of the bike??
Thanks!
"If I buy a bike with red key but no code card, is there any chance I'll be "locked out" of the bike??"
I would never say never but I in all the years at the dealership I NEVER used the code card.
FYI
The purpose of the code is to allow you to start the bike if, for any reason, the immobilizer doesn't recognize the key. So the answer is yes, you can be locked out if a part in the system fails. The red key is used for marrying the instruments and computer.
Thanks for the information, guys. Any idea what might cause the immobilizer to not recognize the red key?? Seems like if this was the case you'd have to replace the ECU/dash/lockset. Otherwise, you'd have to start the bike w/ the code (using the throttle trick) every time. True?? Or, would the code "re-train" the immoblizer to recognize the red key??
Thanks...
Quote from: brentnclemson on September 09, 2008, 07:34:38 PM
Thanks for the information, guys. Any idea what might cause the immobilizer to not recognize the red key?? Seems like if this was the case you'd have to replace the ECU/dash/lockset. Otherwise, you'd have to start the bike w/ the code (using the throttle trick) every time. True?? Or, would the code "re-train" the immoblizer to recognize the red key??
Thanks...
The fault could also be with a key or the antennae. Yes, until repaired you would need to use the code to start the bike. The code doesn't retrain. The red key allows you to program new keys. Great system for keeping the rightful owner from operating the bike :P
Quote from: howie on September 09, 2008, 08:04:00 PM
Great system for keeping the rightful owner from operating the bike :P
I'm beginning to understand that...
I know Ducati doesn't have any code information ([roll]), but has anyone found a way to "read" the code from the red key? The dealer in Knoxville, TN referred me to a locksmith that is supposedly able to read and generate new key codes...haven't spoken w/ him yet though.
Quote from: brentnclemson on September 09, 2008, 08:22:27 PM
I'm beginning to understand that...
I know Ducati doesn't have any code information ([roll]), but has anyone found a way to "read" the code from the red key? The dealer in Knoxville, TN referred me to a locksmith that is supposedly able to read and generate new key codes...haven't spoken w/ him yet though.
AFAIK, you can clone a black key, but not a red key. You may be able to clone a black key from a red key, dunno.
Quote from: howie on September 09, 2008, 09:30:45 PM
AFAIK, you can clone a black key, but not a red key. You may be able to clone a black key from a red key, dunno.
My understanding of the red key, from what I've read, is that it is actually no different from the black keys.
The first key ever used to start the bike has its code logged by the ecu and is then the "master key".
When this's done at the factory, they use the red key to enable the owner to easily identify the "master key".
If this's true, then the red key should be able to be cloned as well.
Good information, thanks guys.
I'm mainly concerned about the code card. What I'm hearing is that it's not really a big deal. Even if you had it and the red key wouldn't work, you'd have to start the bike every time with the code. It would only take about a week of that before I replaced the necessary components anyway... Besides, has this actually happened to anyone??
Is there any other reason you need the code?? For instance, does the dealer need it to replace the dash or ECM, or to make new black keys??
Thanks!
Quote from: brentnclemson on September 10, 2008, 08:54:35 AM
Good information, thanks guys.
I'm mainly concerned about the code card. What I'm hearing is that it's not really a big deal. Even if you had it and the red key wouldn't work, you'd have to start the bike every time with the code. It would only take about a week of that before I replaced the necessary components anyway... Besides, has this actually happened to anyone??
Is there any other reason you need the code?? For instance, does the dealer need it to replace the dash or ECM, or to make new black keys??
Thanks!
The intent of the code card is to get you home in the event that an element in the system fails.
Say you're 100 miles from home on a ride, you stop for gas, and the chip in your key somehow loses the data on it.
You're supposed to be able to pull the code out of your wallet (not the code card, since it should be stored somewhere safe), go through the code procedure, start the bike and ride home.
And yes, you supposedly need the code card to get additional keys from the dealer. Whether or not this is actually true, I don't know since I've never had to get any additional keys, but that's what it says in the manual.
Does anybody know when they implemented this code card? I have an 02 750 i.e. dark and was never given a card when I bought the bike.
I'm still in touch with the guy that I bought it from so if I might need it I'll give him a call. From what I understand it's VERY hard to set the immobilizer off.
Quote from: VeryMetal on September 10, 2008, 06:16:18 PM
Does anybody know when they implemented this code card? I have an 02 750 i.e. dark and was never given a card when I bought the bike.
I'm still in touch with the guy that I bought it from so if I might need it I'll give him a call. From what I understand it's VERY hard to set the immobilizer off.
You should have the code.
i was looking at buying a 749 dark in great shape for 6000 but no red key. no sale...
cost thousands to get a new computer and red key. they can't be duplicated, they are matched sets.
I'll get in touch with the guy asap. What are my options if he doesn't have it? Let me guess, just hope nothing goes wrong? Haha. Seriously though, code card [roll] what a dumb idea.
well the whole idea is that if the bike is stolen a thief would have to replace the computer and keys... one alerting authorities, two spending more money than the trouble is worth.
BUT, that being said, it's making second hand purchasing iffy.
It is VERY RARE, but not unheard of, that the immobilizer antenna fails.
That is to say, in all of my time lurking and participating on both this and TOB I have heard of this 1 (one) time.
At that point, it doesn't matter what keys you have, unless you have the code and the procedure to go off of, the bike will not start.
With that in mind, if the antenna is intact it is possible to remove the RFID chip from a key (black or red) and affix it to the antenna housing itself, at which point any key (or lock pick) that turns the cylinder will work.
the code card is a little bit cheaper to produce than the red key... i would imagine that, with proper proof of ownership, DNA might be able to get you the code to said bike... worth a phone call anyway IMO.
what is the procedure to use the code to start it?
Copied from my owner's manual:
Code card
A CODE CARD is supplied together with the keys, it indicates the electronic code to be used in case of engine disabled and therefore if engine will not start up after the key-ON.
Procedure to disable immobilizer engine block through throttle twistgrip
1) Turn the key to ON and fully open throttle. Keep it open. The EOBD warning light turns off after 8 seconds.
2) Release the throttle as soon as the EOBD warning light turns off.
3) EOBD pilot light will flash. It is now necessary to enter the electronic code indicated on the CODE CARD. delivered to the customer together with the bike.
4) Count as many flashes of the EOBD pilot light as the first digit of the electronic code. Fully open the throttle for 2 seconds, and release. In this way the input of one figure is acknowledged, EOBD pilot light comes on and stays on for 4 seconds. Carry out the same procedure for the following figures of the code. Failure to comply with this procedure, the EOBD pilot light will flash for 20 times, then will come on steady. Repeat the procedure starting from step (1).
5) Release the throttle twistgrip, if the code is correct, the EOBD warning light shall flash signaling that the engine block has been disabled. The warning light turns off after 4 seconds.
6) If the code is NOT correct, the EOBD warning light stays on and it is then possible to turn the key to OFF and repeat the procedure, starting from point (1), as many times as necessary (infinite).
Note
Should the throttle twistgrip be released before the set time, the warning light turns on again. It is then necessary to bring the key to OFF and restart the procedure from point (1).
Clear as mud, no?
Quote from: Raux on September 11, 2008, 07:12:11 PM
well the whole idea is that if the bike is stolen a thief would have to replace the computer and keys... one alerting authorities, two spending more money than the trouble is worth.
BUT, that being said, it's making second hand purchasing iffy.
Yeah, plus it means that if someone is going to steal Ducatis and knows what they're doing they'll just throw the thing in a van and strip it for parts. Now we have professional thieves to deal with rather than your average hoodlum haha.
Through speaking to a reliable source recently it seems that as long as you have the red key and the black ones you should never really get totally locked out of the bike. There are places that can read the rfid from the keys so that's your option if you don't have a card, but like was mentioned earlier the chances of this are very low anyway.
Some bikes don't use the throttle method though.
With mine, you use the button that cycles through the display settings.
If there's any doubt about what method yours uses, download the owners manual from Ducati.com.