appreciate the input everyone. This has dried up and died, though. I wasn't trying to start a fight...
already took care of the Bikini faring, and He Man provided a detailed example of how to replace the pressure plate. My point was never anything to do with the actual list. My point is, that if you are going to be doing Mod's to your bike, even simple stuff, and your the type of guy/girl who knows what they are doing. Make a video or take detailed pics and post them. It is a great help to some of us, no matter how easy it is to you. I just provided the list, as those are simple mods that I bet get over looked, and they are all stuff I'm trying to figure out how to do...
this goes back to someguys post before about the mechanically "disabled"
Removing the bikini fairing Have you tried taking a look at it? theres only 4 bolts...(10second video)
Installing risers again, theres only 2 bolts on each riser.. (2 second video)
Installing a dampervaries from model to model, and they come with their own instructions
changing out the brake and clutch levers/cylindersThere already is one in the FAQ, not a video but still..(1minute video)
Adding a billet or open face cover and changing out the pressure plate on the clutch Theres only 5 bolts and the pressure plate is covered in numerous threads, this one is a bit tricky if you have no idea (especially with rizoma stuff), so hell, im going to reinstall mine right now so i guess ill throw it up.
in all seriousness, if words and photographs cant help you understand any of those simple mods, you really should think twice about doing your own work.
p.s. you dont need to post it in 3 different parts of the forum... Well ive found 3. there may be more Easter eggs....
Quote from: He Man on September 13, 2008, 11:59:48 AM
this goes back to someguys post before about the mechanically "disabled"
Removing the bikini fairing Have you tried taking a look at it? theres only 4 bolts...(10second video)
Yes, and It looks easy enough, as soon as I find the right tools... plus there are guys griping about it being a pain in the ass. So it seems like someone who can do it in 10 seconds, should show us how.
I know this stuff is super simple to alot of you guys. all I'm saying is, that if you are going to be doing it anyway. Make a video, or take detailed Photos (I haven't see this, but you say it exist).
I'm confident that I can do any of this stuff w/guidance. I prefer to see examples and know exactly what I'm doing before I run at my brand new bike with a set of wrenches and very little experience.
And 1 min, 30 sec. clips sound great. I don't see why that should be a deterrent.
Quote from: Clickjack on September 13, 2008, 12:13:00 PM
Yes, and It looks easy enough, as soon as I find the right tools... plus there are guys griping about it being a pain in the ass. So it seems like someone who can do it in 10 seconds, should show us how.
It really is as easy as it looks. Now do you mean you need to go buy tools? or do you not know what tools to use?
I agree with you ClickJack. I think it would be nice too. Especially for those of us that want to learn but need a little more guidance than just words on a screen.
Quote from: He Man on September 13, 2008, 12:17:44 PM
It really is as easy as it looks. Now do you mean you need to go buy tools? or do you not know what tools to use?
I don't own any metric tools.
Quote from: JBubble on September 13, 2008, 12:23:54 PM
I agree with you ClickJack. I think it would be nice too. Especially for those of us that want to learn but need a little more guidance than just words on a screen.
Exactly. Even the easy stuff can be overwhelming when your on your own.
Quote from: JBubble on September 13, 2008, 12:23:54 PM
I agree with you ClickJack. I think it would be nice too. Especially for those of us that want to learn but need a little more guidance than just words on a screen.
Damn it JBubble, why do you have to get in between me busting a newbie. I was having fun. :(
Anyway, this is a VERY VERY good explination of how to install a new pressure plate. If all those nice pics dont help, then a video wouldnt help either. IE ive seen CA-Cyclework's video on how to do valve adjustments. Honest to god. I have no clue what he was talking about. I read the Haynes tech guide and it helped a bit, and i just said watever opened the valve covers and just played around with it, then i finally understood it. Still not sure about TDC and all those belt marks, which cylinder is in TDC when and why. People explaining it to me, and videos dont help. You just need to sit down, and play with it.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=11240.0
Anyway thats the link. Is that detailed enough? Cause i aint making a video (Dont know how to encode for web, and youtube really dumbs the quality down to the point where its pointless. I have an HD Video camera if someone wants to host.
Quote from: He Man on September 13, 2008, 02:31:12 PM
Damn it JBubble, why do you have to get in between me busting a newbie. I was having fun. :(
<snip>
;D
I just happen to be in the same situation as him. I don't have anyone to help me where I'm located and I don't know a socket wrench from a crescent wrench. I am, however, willing and eager to learn. You guys on here are my resource. When you're a complete newb to tools and bikes, it can be VERY confusing and intimidating.
For any major wrenching, I will definitely go to the dealer or a qualified person. For things like taking my windscreen off and changing a sprocket, I wanna do those myself. Pics/video make it easier for us dumbos to visualize how to do the simple things.
Bear with us dear. At least we're trying to learn. [thumbsup]
Oh, and I'm glad you got your bike back finally. That is awesome news. [beer]
Quote from: He Man on September 13, 2008, 02:31:12 PM
IE ive seen CA-Cyclework's video on how to do valve adjustments. Honest to god. I have no clue what he was talking about. I read the Haynes tech guide and it helped a bit, and i just said watever opened the valve covers and just played around with it, then i finally understood it. Still not sure about TDC and all those belt marks, which cylinder is in TDC when and why. People explaining it to me, and videos dont help. You just need to sit down, and play with it.
No, YOU just need to sit down and play with it. Because the video on valve adjustments did *you* no good. Not everyone learns the same way. With other people, video and pictures
is what they need, whereas playing with it just makes them confused, or they screw something up.
In other news, giving people (especially newbs) crap for not knowing something they have no good reason to *already* know, is just not helpful.
My point is, there is no difference between a video and a pictorial.
Example:
If i took a picture and pointed at the risers and typed REMOVE. Wouldnt that translate the same idea as making a video of me looking for the right sized Allen key, using it correctly because some people don't realize why it is L shaped, turning it until it is loose and repeating it twice, and then putting on a new riser, and fastening the bolt.
For most people who want to do their own work, it usually comes down to two things:
Fear vs understanding. Fear of screwing up, is common among people who have never worked on their bike. If they have the common sense to take a look around, and make a rational decision, then they are already ahead of the game. Most people who do this go, "hey if i loosen this bolt right here, this object will loosen up. it is connected to nothing, so only that will come of, but I am afraid to do it..." That issue will only be solved by getting your feet wet. Its like school, the teacher can explain something to you a million times, but no matter what, you will not get it 100% until you finally do it, you can argue however you want, but humans learn through the motions of doing something.
"I dont understand how to remove these riser, what are those shiny hexagon shapes inside the risers? Do I need to get them out?" = not understanding. People who are like that, should just not touch their own bike.
The OP = fear....
QuoteYes, and It looks easy enough, as soon as I find the right tools... plus there are guys griping about it being a pain in the ass.
Everyone is telling him its a hard to remove the bikini fairing. Im telling him its easy, just stop asking for videos and just do it.
My final point? A little faith in yourself goes a long way and if everyone makes it sound harder than it is, whats wrong with me telling him, it isn't as hard as everyone else is saying. it really is as easy as YOU see it to be. Now just go buy some freaking metric tools and start wrenching.
(http://carlnet.no-ip.org/ducati-mechanics.jpg)
No one said it was really hard. Just a pain in the ass. I'm not the least bit worried about that one...
I'm just saying if you can do it in 10 seconds... bestow your almighty wisdom.
I agree more with someguy than He Man but I can see both points (my curse).
We do learn by doing and making a mistake while doing so is the best lesson one can learn...but it can hurt to learn a lesson that way.
Personal experience:
I have been wrenching since I was a wee one. So, many of my lessons I learned early on but as long as you are still "doin' stuff" you'll still learn some hard lessons. You surely get satisfation doing the work yourself and, if you know what you are doing, you know that what you did was done right. I'd rather mess it up myself than to pay somone to mess it up.
Anything is easy if you know how to do it...The opposite it true too. If you don't know how to do something, there is some level of difficulity to the task.
Personality type enters in too, as others have eluded to. I have taught adults jewelry making and metalsmithing for about 15 years. There are those who are ready to jump right in...mistakes be dammed! There are also those trepidious types that fear that they are going to make a mess of their project. So as somone else pointed out, fear is a big issue.
At some point with or without visual aids...you will have to jump in and do it. That said, start with simple things to build your confidence. Tire pressure, visual bike safety inspection (with book in hand if you need it). Graduate to an oil change or chain adjustment. Get a manual, get it dirty and learn...no better way IMO. If you find a video (such as Steves) by all means watch it before you attempt the task. I personally would not waste my time making, editing and posting a video of removing the bikini fairing but perhaps someone would. I don't think it is wrong to ask for that but...I ain't gonn do it.
Good luck, get dirty and learn about that scooter!
appreciate the input everyone. This has dried up and died, though. I wasn't trying to start a fight...
already took care of the Bikini faring, and He Man provided a detailed example of how to replace the pressure plate. My point was never anything to do with the actual list. My point is, that if you are going to be doing Mod's to your bike, even simple stuff, and your the type of guy/girl who knows what they are doing. Make a video or take detailed pics and post them. It is a great help to some of us, no matter how easy it is to you. I just provided the list, as those are simple mods that I bet get over looked, and they are all stuff I'm trying to figure out how to do...
Quote from: Clickjack on September 14, 2008, 12:25:59 PM
appreciate the input everyone. This has dried up and died, though. I wasn't trying to start a fight...
already took care of the Bikini faring, and He Man provided a detailed example of how to replace the pressure plate. My point was never anything to do with the actual list. My point is, that if you are going to be doing Mod's to your bike, even simple stuff, and your the type of guy/girl who knows what they are doing. Make a video or take detailed pics and post them. It is a great help to some of us, no matter how easy it is to you. I just provided the list, as those are simple mods that I bet get over looked, and they are all stuff I'm trying to figure out how to do...
+11tyb. Thank you for asking for this and I'm sorry you took heat for it. It would be nice for those of us that wanna learn to have some pics but we'll have to hope that some people are willing to help us out with those.
How to videos for very little stuff takes too much time to make. Something better would be a "how to" video that would acquaint people with the tools they need and how they are used.
I dont know about you guys but I grew up with a dad that showed me how to use tools. That seems "normal" to me and my familiarity with tools is what allows me to "easily" tackle the "easy" jobs.
Maybe those of us who grew up with such experiences are taking it for granted and we assume that others would have the same background. Fathers, TEACH YOUR KIDS HOW TO FIX STUFF (im sure a lot of you already do)
I'm thinkin' I'll make a few tutorials. Most of them will involve me handicapping myself as a demonstration of the amount of motor control actually needed.
I'm hopin' people will see 'em and say "Hey-if that drunken lush who's peein' on himself can do it-I bet I could too!"
I really like the idea of having how to videos of even the 10-second "really simple stuff". While it may seem like a waste of time to someone who has done their own work before, it is a massive confidence builder for someone who is new to doing their own work to be able to actually see something that shows them "yes, it IS this easy to get started doing your own work, and there's no reason to be afraid of doing it yourself".
Quote from: faolan01 on September 15, 2008, 07:49:25 AM
I really like the idea of having how to videos of even the 10-second "really simple stuff". While it may seem like a waste of time to someone who has done their own work before, it is a massive confidence builder for someone who is new to doing their own work to be able to actually see something that shows them "yes, it IS this easy to get started doing your own work, and there's no reason to be afraid of doing it yourself".
Here is the bad thing about "HOW TO" videos for every simple thing, If you only do exactly what is shown with out thinking about it yourself, you never really learn anything. You may be able to do what ever the "HOW TO" video shows you and may be able to do it as fast/well as a pro but if you dont apply the concepts needed to fix the "easy" stuff and dont realize your self what those concepts are, all you are is a Highly speciallized machine/zombie really good and adding bar risers.
Or those of us that want to learn gain some confidence and start wrenching on our own.
The whole tone makes me (who's been on this board and knows a lot of the people) not wanna ask for any help if I need more than words on a page.
And major thanks to someguy for offering up help.
ETA:
Are there gonna be zombies? Sure. But there will also be those of us that learn and start contributing more to the board. Shouldn't that be worth it?
my criticism was more along the lines to address what I dont want to happen. Im on the fence about this.
To build one's confidence is good. For me, it boils down to being pragmatic. For some "easy" mods, pictures should be sufficient.
There are two sides to the same coin we are looking at here. I feel that those criticizing the people who hold the views that there should not be a need (though i would assume would not object to the existence of "easy" how to videos) to make these videos, think that those kinds of people are not willing to be helpful.
On the flip side, I feel that people who are in the know feel like people who demand (though that may be too strong a word) a video, are not making enough "effort" yet there are resources available with pictures for such easy mods.
I FEEL that knowing the functions of some basic tools are as simple as adding and subtracting. the necessity for there to be a video to unscrew 2 bolts (though with not a traditional phillips or flat head but instead with allen/hex keys) to add risers is a little, just a little too much right?
EDIT: It is not about needing more than words on a page to help you accomplish your mods. With in reason, It should not require MORE than words to accomplish some mods.
See, now we have to get into specifics about whats an easy mod and whats not.
-Unbolting the passenger pegs on S*R series wouldn't need pics. Also, removing the mickey mouse mirrors. Even I can do those.
-The bikini faring? Pics would suffice. I have to say it was tough for me to figure out how to get my hands down in there and get the right angle to unscrew the thing.
-Maybe installing new levers would be sufficient with pics.
-Flipping the linkage? It woulda been nice to have a quick vid and I don't think its asking for too much. I made it through on pics with squiggly lines drawn on them.
In short, yes, pics on "easy mods" would be sufficient. But your definition of an easy mod is not the same as a newb who's never held an allen before.
Its the tone I have a major issue with (not necessarily yours). We are obviously newbs, have some mercy on us. Some of us have done our homework and just need a little more guidance.
If someone asks for a vid on how to do something, and you think they're just not thinking hard enough, supply them with pics instead. If that doesn't work, let someone else who has the time and patience deal with them but don't bash them.
I can see where you are coming from on this, I just tend to take the Murphy's Law view of written/photo instructions after the number of times with various "simple" projects I've had to go back and start over because something that in hind sight should have been really obvious was done wrong (by me). I know that I tend to be a very "visual" learner, especially when it's something completely new to me, and actually seeing something done makes me much more comfortable trying something myself.
Quote from: He Man on September 13, 2008, 11:59:48 AM
this goes back to someguys post before about the mechanically "disabled"
Removing the bikini fairing Have you tried taking a look at it? theres only 4 bolts...(10second video)
Installing risers again, theres only 2 bolts on each riser.. (2 second video)
Installing a dampervaries from model to model, and they come with their own instructions
changing out the brake and clutch levers/cylindersThere already is one in the FAQ, not a video but still..(1minute video)
Adding a billet or open face cover and changing out the pressure plate on the clutch Theres only 5 bolts and the pressure plate is covered in numerous threads, this one is a bit tricky if you have no idea (especially with rizoma stuff), so hell, im going to reinstall mine right now so i guess ill throw it up.
in all seriousness, if words and photographs cant help you understand any of those simple mods, you really should think twice about doing your own work.
p.s. you dont need to post it in 3 different parts of the forum... Well ive found 3. there may be more Easter eggs....
Speaking about specifics, these are the mods i had in mind when i was posting my comments (as you also mention).
Quote from: 1/2 Pint on September 15, 2008, 11:04:38 AM
See, now we have to get into specifics about whats an easy mod and whats not.
And I see your point too about specifics. To me, changing belts are easy BUT I would say that having a video about them would be better than just pictures because it involves moving parts to properly align.
I guess we just have to distinguish what mods are "easy" and what mods are "easy yet technical"
Quote from: OwnyTony on September 15, 2008, 12:14:25 PM
Speaking about specifics, these are the mods i had in mind when i was posting my comments (as you also mention).
And I see your point too about specifics. To me, changing belts are easy BUT I would say that having a video about them would be better than just pictures because it involves moving parts to properly align.
I guess we just have to distinguish what mods are "easy" and what mods are "easy yet technical"
We are in agreement good sir [thumbsup] I can see that your point about not needing pics on the first three (maybe 4) is valid. They don't need vids and really don't need pics (again, I'm a maybe on the 4th one). At this point, I guess its a case by case basis as they pop up.
I was actually planning on putting my linkage back to stock then running through flipping it again, with pics on each step, and posting up in the how to.
Now if only we could get people to do a search....... ;)
BTW, this thread would be a great time and place for people to suggest things they'd like to know.
Keep in mind I intend to keep my bike stock.
Quote from: someguy on September 15, 2008, 01:42:41 PM
BTW, this thread would be a great time and place for people to suggest things they'd like to know.
Keep in mind I intend to keep my bike stock.
If this is too simple a request then slap me but pics of a front sprocket change would be good I think. Theres a thread in the how-to section but no pics.
Like I said, if its too simple, my bad.
Nothing is too simple.
If anyone has requests they think are embarassing, just PM me. ;)
Quote from: JBubble on September 15, 2008, 11:04:38 AM
See, now we have to get into specifics about whats an easy mod and whats not.
-The bikini faring? Pics would suffice. I have to say it was tough for me to figure out how to get my hands down in there and get the right angle to unscrew the thing.
Sometimes it's just helpful knowing the tricks. When I bought my bike it already had the bikini fairing removed and I had to figure out how to install it. It was not technically difficult, but damn it was hard getting those bolts started because it is real difficult to get your hands and wrenches in there. Only when I took it back off again did my brain engage and I realized it would be 10x easier if I unbolted the gauges first to give me more room to work with.
It's been 15+ years since I did any serious wrench work of my own and I admit to being rusty, but I can also see how a couple of pictures would really help a novice to understand some of this "easy" stuff.
Quote from: Clickjack on September 13, 2008, 12:30:48 PM
I don't own any metric tools.
Better get some [cheeky]
My .02
It goes like this - pictorials VS. videos = they're both useful. Being able to jump in and start working on stuff is a learning process in itself. You can't learn something entirely by watching a video or looking at a pictorial but it'll help you with the major points. The details become obvious as you dive in. If you're hesitant, talk to as many people as you can, watch videos, read threads, look at your manual etc and you'll begin to get an idea. Be mindful of the fact that you're probably not going to cause your bike to blow up. I would suggest (if you don't have it already) that you pick up a manual (I have the Haynes one). It'll give you the low down and most of the technical info, tell you the torque values and tools you need etc.. It can't do everything for you but it does help. When I did my belt change I used Chris's Ca Cycleworks video, the Haynes manual and stuff I'd found on the internet. I didn't follow the exact steps of any of those procedures but it just started to unfold in front of me as I took it apart and examined the situation. The important thing is to get in there. I'm exceedingly poor at the moment, which is one reason I do my own work, but I'm grateful because it's given me a WAY better understanding of my machine. It'll do the same for you.
Get a manual, get familiar with stuff you don't even intend to do, start poking around, get some tools and indulge in a little wrench action. You'll soon put a few simple procedures behind you and feel a lot more confident.
As for the debate, I'm not on the fence at all, I think the more info the better. I don't need a video of how to fill my tank at the gas station or how to pump my tires up but it could be useful to some people and nobody is forcing me to watch it. The more people working on their own bikes the better. More knowledge for everyone I say.