Had a dyno done this past weekend, 84 HP at the wheels. I have the full termi exhaust. Can anyone give me an estimate on HP at the crank? Is 84 HP at wheels decent for a full termi exhaust?
side note: Saw a '08 Busa run 191wHP, then a cbr600 put out 186wHP!!
Sorry to threadjack, what air intake are you running, pods, open etc?
dude that dyno is jacked up.
How does a busa throw 191whp and a cbr600 throw 186whp?
10% loss through the drive line is pretty average. Based on that you've got 93.3 Bhp.
Quote from: Ducatiloo on September 22, 2008, 06:59:53 PM
Sorry to threadjack, what air intake are you running, pods, open etc?
DP Open airbox
Quote from: He Man on September 22, 2008, 08:03:59 PM
dude that dyno is jacked up.
How does a busa throw 191whp and a cbr600 throw 186whp?
It was no normal cbr...sounded like a jet engine.
Quote from: yuu on September 22, 2008, 08:21:05 PM
10% loss through the drive line is pretty average. Based on that you've got 93.3 Bhp.
WoW 21% increase over stock!!!
I didn't think the 803 motor is able to pound out 84hp to the wheel without major work/tuning.
Some of the modded 1000cc 2v motors are getting about that.
Quote from: RandyFloyd on September 22, 2008, 08:26:06 PM
It was no normal cbr...sounded like a jet engine.
So youre telling me loud = hp?
lets take an 08 CBR600. Rated at 120hp at the crank. 10% drivetrain lost is very common, lets say its 108hp at the rear wheel. Turbo chargers gives 30% power increase (generous) thats 140hp. Still 40hp shy.
Id get your bike dynoed again elsewhere. your not making 83whp.
S2R1000 with DP kit makes 90whp at best. to even get past that marker would require major work. cams, exahust and intake porting+ advancing and dual spark.
CA-cycleworks guarnetees 100hp out of your 900 2v with that type of set up, and they have a 100cc on your bike.
I guess it's been a while since we've had the 'dyno argument'. [roll]
Here's an example of a slightly modded S2R 800, about 79HP:
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/s2rmonsterarrow.html
The dyno you ran seems a bit generous.
Another dyno may be stingy.
But if you use it for before/after comparisons of your mods, it's perfectly valid.
Making absolute comparisons between one dyno and another never seems to result in anything fruitful.
As far as commentary on the CBR, we've got no info on how it was set up.
So, we can't make any categorical statements about whether it actually made that HP or not.
F1 cars routinely got 1000HP from 1500cc 4-cylinder engines 20 years ago, so it's certainly possible for a CBR600 to get to 180HP.
F1 engines are purpose built and push ridiculous amounts of boost and need to be rebuilt more than a street engine.
The moto-1 performance S2R800 has a U59 ultimap ECU equiped.
The mods on that bike include
Cam timing
Ignition advancing
Optimized AFR
Lighter flywheel
More than slight mods.
I'd have to say the dyno is very generous not just a bit.
S2R800 is rated at 77crankhp. S2R1000 is rated at 95crank hp. Take those numbers and just think about how off your dyno reading is.
Quote from: Speeddog on September 22, 2008, 09:29:19 PM
As far as commentary on the CBR, we've got no info on how it was set up.
So, we can't make any categorical statements about whether it actually made that HP or not.
F1 cars routinely got 1000HP from 1500cc 4-cylinder engines 20 years ago, so it's certainly possible for a CBR600 to get to 180HP.
There's a guy here in Sydney with a 250cc Yamaha Zeal (FZX250) with a turbo on it - he shows off a dyno chart with a peak of 86hp at the rev limiter.
(http://www.overclockers.com.au/~boky/mtwhite/z2.jpg)
You _could_ make a 180HP CBR600 if you wanted. Like they say "horsepower costs - how much money have you got?"
big
Quote from: He Man on September 22, 2008, 09:00:14 PM
CA-cycleworks guarnetees 100hp out of your 900 2v with that type of set up, and they have a 100cc on your bike.
That 100 hp air cooled 2v project was a carb'd bike. A newer injected engine shouldn't need as much fiddling to make the 100 mark. Not making any statement about the dyno numbers , just pointing out that tid bit about ca-cycleworks bike
Quote from: Speeddog on September 22, 2008, 09:29:19 PM
I guess it's been a while since we've had the 'dyno argument'. [roll]
Here's an example of a slightly modded S2R 800, about 79HP:
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/s2rmonsterarrow.html
The dyno you ran seems a bit generous.
Another dyno may be stingy.
But if you use it for before/after comparisons of your mods, it's perfectly valid.
Making absolute comparisons between one dyno and another never seems to result in anything fruitful.
As far as commentary on the CBR, we've got no info on how it was set up.
So, we can't make any categorical statements about whether it actually made that HP or not.
F1 cars routinely got 1000HP from 1500cc 4-cylinder engines 20 years ago, so it's certainly possible for a CBR600 to get to 180HP.
Thanks for the feedback. This is what I was wondering after I got the results, this is my first dyno so I don't have a base line for comparison, but from what you said that doesn't seem to matter. I read somewhere that the DP full exhuast should give at max 15% gain. so I should have been closer to 80whp...
Quote from: He Man on September 22, 2008, 09:00:14 PM
So youre telling me loud = hp?
lets take an 08 CBR600. Rated at 120hp at the crank. 10% drivetrain lost is very common, lets say its 108hp at the rear wheel. Turbo chargers gives 30% power increase (generous) thats 140hp. Still 40hp shy.
Id get your bike dynoed again elsewhere. your not making 83whp.
S2R1000 with DP kit makes 90whp at best. to even get past that marker would require major work. cams, exahust and intake porting+ advancing and dual spark.
CA-cycleworks guarnetees 100hp out of your 900 2v with that type of set up, and they have a 100cc on your bike.
F**K YOU if you can't take a joke...
and for the record the CBR had a ton of engine work and tuning done. Sorry I don't get complete details for the pretentious know it alls on this board...
Quote from: RandyFloyd on September 23, 2008, 03:30:14 PM
F**K YOU if you can't take a joke...
and for the record the CBR had a ton of engine work and tuning done. Sorry I don't get complete details for the pretentious know it alls on this board...
whoa dude. easy. nobody was trying to mess with you. well maybe He Man but he didn't mean nothin by it.
Chill.
RandyFloyd Can you post the Dyno results print out? Did you have the DP ECU?
And we all have heard the stories of Ducats that just didn't make the promised HP, Maybe this bike was just the opposite and began life a few hp ahead of the curve.
Quote from: Ducatiloo on September 23, 2008, 04:08:06 PM
RandyFloyd Can you post the Dyno results print out? Did you have the DP ECU?
And we all have heard the stories of Ducats that just didn't make the promised HP, Maybe this bike was just the opposite and began life a few hp ahead of the curve.
I have the Termi exhaust, spark midpipe, open airbox and the DP ECU also all emissions removed(if that makes a difference). I sat there and watched through the glass as the mechanic tuned it for almost an hour...he's certified to tune the desmodeci so I trust the guy.
Quote from: JBubble on September 23, 2008, 04:03:05 PM
whoa dude. easy. nobody was trying to mess with you. well maybe He Man but he didn't mean nothin by it.
Chill.
I am chill...and just like He Man, i meant nothing by telling him to F**K OFF ;)
There is a difference between the terms F**k you and F**k off. Neither exhibit good taste in public conversation. But he was kidding so lets let that one go and get back on topic.
QuoteThe dyno you ran seems a bit generous.
Another dyno may be stingy.
But if you use it for before/after comparisons of your mods, it's perfectly valid.
Making absolute comparisons between one dyno and another never seems to result in anything fruitful.
+1
Did you Dyno your bike when it was stock?
Quote from: uclabiker06 on September 23, 2008, 04:37:56 PM
There is a difference between the terms F**k you and F**k off. Neither exhibit good taste in public conversation. But he was kidding so lets let that one go and get back on topic.
+1
Thanks Miss Manners!
<mod>
Let's simmer down a bit, eh?
Thanks. :)
</mod>
Quote from: Ducatiloo on September 23, 2008, 04:39:37 PM
Did you Dyno your bike when it was stock?
No, but now I wish I had, and on a non-'jacked' dyno.
we could argue about the dyno or go take the bikes to the track. I vote track day at dawn.
wait....that would mean the riders more than the dyno make a difference...that can't be any good...
;D
ride hard, gentlemen.
How does 210rwhp sound? Dynojet's stolen 2004 Honda CBR600rr. It was supposed to compete in this years Bonneville salt flats. (http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr342/LousGix/dynojet600.jpg)
Quote from: RandyFloyd on September 23, 2008, 04:16:18 PM
I have the Termi exhaust, spark midpipe, open airbox and the DP ECU also all emissions removed(if that makes a difference). I sat there and watched through the glass as the mechanic tuned it for almost an hour...he's certified to tune the desmodeci so I trust the guy.
Was the booth pressurized? If so that would explain the higher than expected reading.
QuoteThanks Miss Manners!
Your welcome bud. Thats Mr Manners to you. [thumbsup]
What was the torque? Pictures of the curve?
Quote from: SikDuc on September 23, 2008, 06:49:38 PM
How does 210rwhp sound? Dynojet's stolen 2004 Honda CBR600rr. It was supposed to compete in this years Bonneville salt flats. (http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr342/LousGix/dynojet600.jpg)
That's just dumb.
How's anybody supposed to do circle wheelies with a rear sprocket that small? [roll]
;D
Hey guys.................. i think he should take this thing out & see if it will do 140.........
Then he'll have a bike faster than Randall's 620 [laugh]
While I agree that the dyno is likely a little over optimistic, that's not a huge suprise. A number of dynos these days actually allow users to claim innacurate atmospheric pressure or drivetrain loss so that the dyno's chart actually estimates what it thinks the output would be with perfect conditions and no parasitic loss. I doubt that's the case with yours, I'm just offering ideas on that front. Doesn't really matter though. One thing it's unlikely to lie about is the actualy flow of power. I gotta say, I'd like to see your dyno chart. A shop with a pressurized dyno will have a printer to print out dyno results, and I'd love to see what all those parts and tunign have done for your curve. Can you post this please?
If they didn't give you a printout, they have it on file with your maps, so they can email it to you or print it and give it to you to scan.
Let us see the stuff! They say the best way to back up werds is pictures..... At least on the interweb.
Quote from: Smokescreen on September 25, 2008, 03:19:23 PM
I gotta say, I'd like to see your dyno chart.
Let us see the stuff! They say the best way to back up werds is pictures..... At least on the interweb.
+1 Show us the goods! [thumbsup]
Drum Roll Please...
I found the chart...now I'm really dissapointed...looks more like maybe 81-82 wHP.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/daniel.y.oh/SNwel3tE8tI/AAAAAAAAA-U/xuTUAU9YzUY/s800/CIMG1087.JPG)
Dude, that's not bad, looks stable, and that's good. But I'd guess stable at 80HP, with a peak at some point at 82HP. And when a peak is only seen at one rpm for a mometn in accel, it's a non-point... That said, still, 80HP to the wheel through third fourth and fifth ain't too shabby. Wish it gave rpm instead of mph you know? Although, it's interesting to see it in gear position vs mph, obviously they'd have spun up the rear in the lower gears if they'd really pushed it. Maybe stickier tyres on the next go will give you the bottom gears.
anyhow, you can't really do better than a dynojet dyno is my 2cents, so well done mang!!
Quote from: Smokescreen on September 25, 2008, 03:19:23 PM
While I agree that the dyno is likely a little over optimistic, that's not a huge suprise. A number of dynos these days actually allow users to claim innacurate atmospheric pressure or drivetrain loss so that the dyno's chart actually estimates what it thinks the output would be with perfect conditions and no parasitic loss. I doubt that's the case with yours, I'm just offering ideas on that front.
There's more variables than that too, I remember reading a British bike mag article where they dyno-ed an R1 both before and after changing a badly worn chain, it gained them 8hp (~6%) from memory. I've heard that a similar but smaller difference can be seen between under and over inflated tires too...
But yeah there are always stories around of unscrupulous tuners who use pessimistic dyno settings for the before run, then optimistic settings for the after run (and sometimes even accusations on no actual tuning going on in between).
big
Beer
If they can't the date and time right, what makes you think they can get Hp right. [roll]
[laugh]