So my birthday was a couple of weeks ago and my mother is just getting around to take me shopping. I want to get a new helmet and was just wondering what the difference is between a $100 dollar helmet and a $500 helmet is? I'm guessing quality but if I go cheaper will I be sacrificing safety? I live a mile away from a huge motorcylce accesories store so I am just going to go there and pick out one that is the color I want and is DOT approved. Will I be selling my life short if I don't spend $350 on a damn helmet?
By the way I currently use a vega helmet.
As long as the helmets have the same safety rating (DOT or SNELL) the helmets are equally safe and most of the money goes into comfort and finish.
It's up to you which safety standard you prefer but you usually pay a bit more for a SNELL rated helmet because of the extra cost for the sticker and testing. [roll] IIRC the main differences between the safety ratings are that SNELL testing uses higher velocity impacts while DOT uses lower speed impacts. SNELL also has some random mostly improbable tests where you hit the same spot of the helmet a twice at high speed. Seriously read them yourself and pick one that you like. I like SNELL.
In terms of finish you could be paying for a number of things. One of the most obvious are air vents. Scorpion helmets glue on their air vents while Shoei actually has the air vents molded into the shell. So while I was comparing a RF1000 and an EXO700 a month or so ago I decided to see what the Scorpion was like after having owned an X-11 for 4 years. At a glance the helmet seems not much worse but after wearing it for a bit there are quite a few comfort features that I miss from my Shoei. Things as small as the multiple locking points so I can ride w/ my visor at any % open I feel like. Really all I NEED is a cracked open and full open but sometimes it's nice to have a bit more than just cracked open. Other finish items can include removable liners and cheek pads to customize the fit which is kinda safety related too.
Thanks for the info. I am going to go with a Snell rated helmet this time. I usually ride without the visor so that is not an issue and neither are vents because my face is open. I guess I'll just go with one I like that is Snell rated. [thumbsup]
One difference that i noticed between my Scorpion EXO-400, and the awesome Icon Airframe that i purchased for my girlfriend (got on sale, so not much more than my EXO, but normally about twice as expensive) was the huge difference in the fabric/material that actually touches my face. The cheek pads and everything in her helmet are just ridiculously soft and comfortable. It's like the interior of a 70's cadillac, but on your face.
My scorpion just doesnt compete in the comfort aspect. It's comfortable ENOUGH, dont get me wrong, but not as comfortable as some of the pricier helmets i would imagine.
Another difference to consider is wind noise. Some of the expensive brands put alot of time and research into low-noise stuff. My EXO has some whistles to it, especially with the visor open.
Quote from: erkishhorde on September 25, 2008, 06:53:52 AM
It's up to you which safety standard you prefer but you usually pay a bit more for a SNELL rated helmet because of the extra cost for the sticker and testing. [roll] IIRC the main differences between the safety ratings are that SNELL testing uses higher velocity impacts while DOT uses lower speed impacts. SNELL also has some random mostly improbable tests where you hit the same spot of the helmet a twice at high speed. Seriously read them yourself and pick one that you like. I like SNELL.
FYI, all adult helmets for highway use must meet DOT standards for legal use. So if it says SNELL but not DOT on it, it's essentially useless for legal street use.
Thanks some guy. I just was looking at the store I am going to website and they have a nice ICON helemt on sale anyone ever used ICON helemts? It is SNELL and DOT approved.
What is *most* important is how it fits you. We all have different shaped heads-(mine happens to be exceptionally thick).
What you should go do is try on every one, ignoring the rice tag and decals, and find what fits your noggin the best. I'm told there should be no pressure points at the top, and it should be tight enough around the cheeks that you wouldn't want to try chewing gum. After that the other differences are weight and venting.
Once you find one that fits, see if it has whatever else you want, such as snazzy WHAM graphics of a wizard riding a unicorn in outer space. Good luck.
+1 on fit before price (w/in reason, of course)
higher end helmets might have nicer features (lighter, removable liners, airflow, etc.), but if the lid fits your head, that's the best one for you.
*I totally want a lid w/a wizard riding a unicorn in outer space
Another standard to look for is the ECE22.05 standard (Shark, some Suomy and SparX appear to be the main ones aiming for this standard instead of SNELL). More info on the standard at the Helmet Harbor site on the Shark helmets at
http://www.helmetharbor.com/Products/ProductDetails.cfm/Search/Results/ProductID/430380 (http://www.helmetharbor.com/Products/ProductDetails.cfm/Search/Results/ProductID/430380)
You'll need to scroll down a bit. As I understand it, the ECE22.05 standard allows for a somewhat softer outer shell, which allows the helmet to deform from the outside as well as inside (from your skull), which can yield much better deceleration numbers which is the name of the game. I've even heard that SNELL is planning to head that direction in the 2010 update of their standard.
There's also the BSI (British Safety Institute?) standard that appears to be the one on AGV & some Suomy helmets. I'm less familiar with that one...
If you want a whole lot of info on the various standards -- and a clear layout of the argument that SNELL might be pushing helmet makers to a shell that's TOO stiff to protect as well as it can against typical motorcycle accidents, check out:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html)
As for me, I'm pretty stuck on Shoei (a SNELL helmet), simply because I haven't found anything that fits better on my particular head than a Shoei Medium.
The ECE is a MINIMUM standard - hell, you can have open plastic (polycarbonate?) helmets with ECE tags.
These guys, in Britain, offer some tests that has shook the industry:
http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/
Otherwise, +1 on a really good and snug fit [thumbsup]
I went with the Icon Alliance SS Helmet. Here is something I learned. I've been riding around without the cheek parts in my helmet. As soon as the guy at the store tried to put me in a medium which is what my helmet is now it wouldn't fit. I tried the large with the cheek parts and it fit perfect. I rode in to work today with the new helmet and couldn't believe the difference. My neck didn't hurt at all which it was because the old helmet could move around even though it was snug for the top of my head. Watching that Jay Leno video really helped. I feel much safer now.
congrats on the new lid. i am amazed at how many people i talk to about helmets and how little research most people have done to make sure they fit correctly. a guess i should then be surprised at how many people who sell helmets don't know how to fit people for them correctly.
The one good thing about the store I go to, Iron Pony, is that the sales staff is actually very knowledgeable and up to date. As for the customers, not so much. I am very happy with my purchase.
The cool thing about this helemt is that it is somewhat rubberized to help with chips and scrapes.
Quote from: metallimonster on September 26, 2008, 11:56:55 AM
The one good thing about the store I go to, Iron Pony, is that the sales staff is actually very knowledgeable and up to date. As for the customers, not so much. I am very happy with my purchase.
The cool thing about this helemt is that it is somewhat rubberized to help with chips and scrapes.
Does Iron Pony REALLY sell Helmets for $19.95 ? Dolph
Quote from: erkishhorde on September 25, 2008, 06:53:52 AM
As long as the helmets have the same safety rating (DOT or SNELL) the helmets are equally safe and most of the money goes into comfort and finish.
It's up to you which safety standard you prefer but you usually pay a bit more for a SNELL rated helmet because of the extra cost for the sticker and testing. [roll] IIRC the main differences between the safety ratings are that SNELL testing uses higher velocity impacts while DOT uses lower speed impacts. SNELL also has some random mostly improbable tests where you hit the same spot of the helmet a twice at high speed. Seriously read them yourself and pick one that you like. I like SNELL.
this subject seems to come up every couple months on at least one of the forums I read. here's a response I submitted last time around:
Web Bike World Helmet FAQ (http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-faq.htm)
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Do inexpensive DOT-approved helmets protect better than helmets than expensive Snell-approved helmets? The June 2005 Motorcyclist magazine addressed this controversy. That issue contains a detailed article on an extensive test that was conducted on 16 different motorcycle helmets, ranging from the $89.00 Z1R (wBW review) to the $700.00 Schuberth S1 (wBW review). Their conclusion is that the inexpensive, polycarbonate shell Z1R transferred an average of 152Gs to the head-form, vs. 211Gs of the Snell-approved Scorpion EXO-700.
Also, the UK's RIDE magazine tested 28 helmets in the May 2005 issue. While the testing methodology was slightly different, they also found that the HJC AC-11 provided the second best impact absorption of the lot. Could it be that a motorcycle helmet doesn't necessarily have to be expensive to provide good protection?
There's much, much more to the story, and we strongly suggest reading both articles and studying this subject before you buy your next helmet. One of the conclusions in the Motorcyclist magazine article is that a softer polycarbonate DOT-only approved helmet may provide the highest levels of protection.
Motorcyclist article referenced above. (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html)
The truth is that no single helmet is going to protect you from every type of impact. DOT helmets protect differently than Snell helmets because the tests are different. Some people say the Snell test is a very specific type of impact which is unlikely to happen in the real world. Even the same model helmet is going to protect different depending on the location, frequency, and amplitude of the impact.
Above all else your helmet should fit right, not just size but headform shape. If you want to pay extra for a fancy paint job, nice cushy liner, and other features, that's your choice.
Andy
And another post:
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nice find andy learned a little here, but mines both snell and dot :D so im happy
You missed the point.
All helmets sold in the US must have the DOT cert. Snell is optional. Having both means it's more likely to be 'harder' and therefore more likely to impart higher g-forces to your head. No US sold helmet can have ONLY a Snell rating.
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...many head-injury experts feel the Snell M2000 and M2005 standards are, to quote Dr. Harry Hurt of Hurt Report fame, "a little bit excessive."
...
Tough tests such as this (the Snell test, paragraph omitted)]/i] have driven helmet development over the years. But do they have any practical application on the street, where a hit as hard as the hardest single Snell impact may only happen in 1 percent of actual accidents? And where an impact as severe as the two-drop hemi test happens just short of never?
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"The Snell sticker," continued Newman, "has become a marketing gimmick. By spending 60 cents [paid to the Snell foundation], a manufacturer puts that sticker in his helmet and he can increase the price by $30 or $40. Or even $60 or $100.
"Because there's this allure, this charisma, this image associated with a Snell sticker that says, 'Hey, this is a better helmet, and therefore must be worth a whole lot more money.' And in spite of the very best intentions of everybody at Snell, they did not have the field data [on actual accidents] that we have now [when they devised the standard]. And although that data has been around a long time, they have chosen, at this point, not to take it into consideration."
Is the system perfect? no of course not. Any entity that has a vested interest in promoting their standard is going to have an inherent conflict of interest. As I said before, don't let the price tag drive your choice because "this one costs more, it must be better."
Andy
and another...
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The one factor that they touch on briefly is the abrassion or skid/slide portion of a crash. While a polycarbonate shell may provide slightly better impact result, it's my belief that those same materials do not give the best protection when it comes to friction.
That's a good point. I'd love to see a test on which materials fare better on an abrasion test. I don't think i've ever seen one, and really after the initial pavement strike, that's what most of us are going to be subjected to. Both DOT and Snell only test on a strike, not a slide so it'd be interesting to see which materials last longer under that slide condition.
My biggest concern with the polycarbonate helmets is that the shell rebounds, essentially hiding any damage. A fiberglass/CF helmet shell fails visibly and would be more likely to be replaced after a minor strike. Someone who didn't know any better might drop or have a minor crash with a polycarb helmet, not see the shell damage, and presume the helmet is fine. Not knowing that the EPS inside had collapsed, doing it's job, and wasn't going to protect them again.
this is my favorite exert from the article, by the way:
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"But I'm a racer," we hear you rationalizing. "I go really fast. I go so fast, in fact, that I need a very special, high-energy helmet to protect my wonderful manliness and fastness." Not so, Rossi-breath.
If you're going to land on flat pavement when you crash—and you almost always do—you can afford to wear a softer ECE or DOT helmet, because softer helmets do a very good job of absorbing big impacts—even really, really big impacts—on flat surfaces. Remember, the hard part about getting a helmet past the Snell standard involves surviving that mythical steel orange very hard twice in the same spot on the helmet, simulating a monster hit—or two—on, say, a car bumper. Been to Laguna Seca recently? No car bumpers or steel oranges anywhere.
Racers don't typically hit truck parts, storm drains, sign posts, tree shredders or the Watts Towers. They fall off, sometimes tumble, and almost always hit the racetrack. Or maybe an air fence, a sand trap or hay bale. In other words, the racetrack is the best-controlled, best-engineered, softest, flattest environment you're going to find. Racers are even more likely to hit flat pavement than street riders—and street riders hit flat pavement around 90 percent of the time.
The AMA accepts DOT, ECE 22-05, BSI 6658 Type A or Snell M2000-rated helmets. That's for going 200 mph on a superbike at Daytona. The FIM, which sanctions MotoGP races all over the world, accepts any of the above standards but DOT. Why not DOT if DOT helmets are comparable to ECE helmets? Because the DOT is an American institution, and the FIM doesn't really do American. And because the DOT standard doesn't require any outside testing—just the manufacturers' word that their helmets pass.
I laughed when I read that. It is, of course, their opinion, but still pretty funny.
regards,
Andy
Price can = design refinement. Just got the new $600. AGV GP Tech and so far I'm really glad [thumbsup]
I originally didn't want to spend anywhere near this much but bit the bullet after really looking hard.
(http://www.agvhelmets.com/images/helmets/gp_tech_redmulti_profile.jpg)
What the $$$ get’s you in AGV
A helmet that fits you perfectly with less give in the material is the ideal. Not a soft squishy helmet liner. Those are cheap “comfort†helmets. You don’t want any gaps because that’s traveling distance between your head and the pads. If your head is traveling inside your helmet, your helmet will “hit†you and bounce repeatedly, instead of just absorbing a blow.
Some higher end helmets tend to fit fewer types of heads. Lower end helmets tend to be more “comfortable†- soft and squishy inside to fit many more types of heads which is a compromise in safety. But they get to sell way more of them because they're more generic. So they cost less.
Carbon Kevlar shell = Super light super strong no skimping shell.
Weighs 1/4 less than my high end Shoei, Bell, or my low end Scorpion.
Lot of Vents: Because the material is so strong they could many more many vents. Cheap helmets make me suffer from heat.
10 vents in back
6 in front
1mm Visor lifter to open visor a crack â€" my favorite thing
Nose protector vents inside to de-fog
It feels like an open face helmet there's so much air moving through it.
(http://www.agvhelmets.com/images/helmets/gp_tech_redmulti_back.jpg)
Plus all the vents in front have really nice secure sliders to open them. My Scorpion helmet vents are falling apart and don’t work anymore after 2 years.
Design details inside with hypo allergenic materials, all removable, washable, replaceable
I counted 6 different types of materials doing specific jobs inside verses 1 uniform material in my other helmets. More expensive materials inside that will last longer and are better at dispersing heat, moisture wicking etc.
Lastly, design details are a big deal to me because I’m a designer-geek, but maybe that’s just me.
After doing a lot of studying of the different tests, I trusted the ECE and the new British SHARP tests the most. They seem to be way more stringent and actually go to the factory and do random test, where DOT and SNELL do not. This helmet is SHAPR, ECE, & DOT approved.
PS. I just lived the famous example of the ECE rating system argument. I had a 20MPH get-off when a dumb-ass turned left in front of me in heavy traffic.
I low-sided instead of embedding into her door/grill.
I smacked my head good on the pavement with my SNELL/DOT helmet and saw stars. I had a headache for a week.
I kind of got extremely interested in this topic afterward.
My advise, you DO NOT want an open faced helmet.
Open face should never really be an option IMO. I don't think you'll really care how your head feels if you don't have a nose anymore and the rest of your face is unrecognizeable.
Privateer has it right on. I woulda written more like what he wrote but I was feeling lazy. [cheeky] The different helmet ratings are designed for different things. I don't think you can get a SNELL helmet that isn't DOT approved though. Also, most of the higher end helmets from the main namebrands are SNELL rated and you can't get them any other way so the choice kinda goes out the window there if you want all the comfort features from those helmets.
I remember reading that the flip-face helmets aren't safe though. They're rated as open-face helmets so most big accidents where you hit face first leave the flip portion destroyed. I've heard of people getting serious head injury due to the flip mechanism transferring too much force to their temples.
Good to see you're happy with your choice of lid. Mind if I ask why you were riding w/o the cheek pads in though? That doesn't make sense to me. You need the snug fit of the helmet to make it work the way it's supposed to.
Excellent thread, folks, taught me a lot.
I have an Icon Mainframe with the rubber coating on the exterior. I've had it for a year now, and it still looks new and fits tightly.
Two things come to mind on this topic:
1) My local autocross group mandates SNELL approval for anyone on track (including passengers).
2) My first motorcycle wreck involved my helmeted head hitting a mailbox at about 20mph, and resulted in a small cut to my chin from the helmet strap (and the purchase of a new helmet). There may not be any bumpers or mailboxes at the track, but the street has more than enough of both.
i think the one thing the thing manufactueres need to look at is the chin strap. the military went to a new strap system that really works.