4 o rings 19.96
1 seal ring 4.99
2 o ring 5.98
4 spark plugs 67.96
1 fuel filter 33.99
2 clip 9.98
1 o ring 29.99
8 shim exchange 120.00
$292.85 for parts
7 hours labor at $700
Grand total $1017!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Youch. AMS has an awesome reputation, but that end number of $ is just painful.
I assume this was a 4V engine?
What O-rings cost that much? And did they give you the platinum superduper plugs at $15 each? I normally pay $15 for all 4.
They charged you for a shim exchange? For 8 shims? Were all 8 of your valves out of whack? All 8?
Bike is '08 S2R 1000. They said all 4 openers and all 4 closers were adjusted. What do you think? It's possible but not likely.
If they said all 8 needed adjustment, then all 8 probably needed adjustment. Based on what I've heard about their reputation, they're a dealer you can trust. Besides, you're most likely to need adjustment on your initial valve check because that's when the valve seating occurs and when your valves are most likely to be out of spec. I bet on your future checks, you won't need to change out many shims.
It makes me wonder. But inversely. I take my RS in and they tell me NOT one valve was out of spec!! ??? Ok, so I'm using full synth but really?? I wonder what my next check is gonna be like. Hope yours go easier next time man. That labor time seems a bit much to me.... My dealer charged 4 hours.
Quote from: lilmonster on October 01, 2008, 06:41:10 PM
---------------snip-----------------
4 spark plugs 67.96
---------------snip-----------------
8 shim exchange 120.00
---------------snip-----------------
Those 2 made me flinch.
hmmm...they BETER have given you iridiums and made that plug gap point inside the cylinder. Though even iridiums dont cost That much. thats 16.99 per a plug. You can get them for 10-12bucks.
and ive NEVER heard of 8 shims for $120....you could of almost bought a whole kit by yourself and gotten spare shims. Most places have a 1 time shim exchange fee. its $20-40 bucks for as many shims as you need to exchange.
Heres the math break down.
EMS shim kit = $339 for 36 shims. thats $9.41 per a shim. you get to keep 8 shims if you replace them all, so in your possession is (in terms of EMS value) $395.22 worth of shims (42). Which can be used over and over again. And brought to your dealer to exchange. They keep their value. your just paying for the convenience of swapping.
AMS charged you 8 shims for $120.00. thats $15 per a shim. So they took your shims, did not give you credit for them (you should earn $9.41 per a shim) and they charged you for new shims at $15 a pop (double face value). Aka you didnt exchange shims. they just sold you new ones and took yours.
AMS may have a reputation of quality work, but this is about overcharging for parts. It would be one thing if they charged you a premium on the work hours (aka $100 an hour vs $75) its another to charge you for something like this.
next time bring it to Nick at valley ducati.
Quote from: sbrguy on October 02, 2008, 12:51:03 PM
next time bring it to Nick at valley ducati.
I think he's a wee bit far away. [cheeky]
Their reputation was one of reasons I bought my bike there. I like the people also. Scott is always helpful with any questions or problems. The first service was $317 for basically an oil change and canister removal. I knew when I got a Ducati that it would be pretty high maint. and service would be expensive. They are a Ducati only dealer so they are higher than the other local dealers. The mark up on parts is rediculous. We called Plano and Ft Worth also. All the estimates were close so I just took it to AMS. The bike has some new scratches on the tank and some rash on the grab rails where they strapped it down to haul it to the Alvaredo store to do the work. Also my bar end mirrors need to be repainted. There is a big hand print in the paint where he had a solvent or something on his hand when handling the bike. On the first oil change the receipt showed I paid for 4 qts of oil. I got a strange look when I asked for the extra qt. of oil. I paid for it, so I want it. I am not rich but can afford the maintenance for the most part. I just don't like being taken advantage of. Jeff did reset my TPS for FREE after I installed the Termi system though. I still like AMS and love the bike, just feel bad because I know they got to me a little is all.
to be honest. my buying experience at AMS was less than great. Scott was too busy wiht the next sale (an 848 and more income for him) to even really go over the bike with me. I called the owner and Terri (co-owner,wife) told me they had lost a salesman at the Dallas shop and Scott was doing his best. Well gave me an excuse to read the manual though.
If I lived in TX I don't think AMS would be my first choice for service. Now mind you, I'm not saying Jeff isn't knowledgeable, didn't have any direct dealings with him. I just think when you spend the kind of money we do for our bikes, a little more customer service (and attention to detail as the last posts shows) would go a long way.
7 hours labor? I can understand it taking your average diy-er 7 hours but I'd expect a trained mechanic to do it faster. Also the shim price seems high but I've never had a shop adjust my valves. I think when I did them myself I bought new shims for about $8 a piece. Could be wrong though. it's been a while.
Your bike takes more than 3 qts of oil.
Yes my bike takes more than 3 qts. of oil and less than 4. I paid $17 for a full qt. I would like to have the rest in case I need to top it up. They seem to be the only place that has the Motul 300v oil that they use. I can't just go anywhere and get a qt. if I need it. So as not to mix 2 kinds of oil.
I also noticed today that the insulation under the gas tank is gone. They never said anything about it. It may not be needed but it is part of my bike and I would like to have it.
Yep! Just luv the $ Ducati service! Dont feel too bad as I think we are all in the same boat I did my own 12,000 Klm service on a M695 and had the Duc dealer ;
-Check the valves ( no adjustment required ??)
-Adjust the Throttle body
-Repace the fuel filter ( including NEW hose clamps!)
-Repace the 2 Spark plugs (I would have repaced them myself had I suspeced they needed it)
-Adjust belt tension
-Check trouble codes
When I delivered the bike in my truck, 120 klms to the dealer, I was told that the mech was ill so I would have to leave it with them for another day (Total distance traveled 480 klms for this service)
Picked up the bike the next day only to find that the oil temp gage not working I trouble shot that to be a disconeced wire on the sensor
All for the paltry sum of only $500. !!!
Still luv my bike in spite of all the BS
The plugs are over priced, you got hosed on the shims, and $17 a quart is a bit high...
Yeah I think I got hosed on everything, I found a place online I can plugs for $3.50. I could have gotten almost 20 plugs for what I paid for 4. I am going to be getting a manual, some tools and learn these valves myself. AM$ is not getting much more of my money. I have bought over 3 grand in accessories from them but they won't cut a guy a break. Plus they didn't take much care with my bike while they had it. For that kind of money they should CARE about what they doing. I hate to think that would do a D16RR that way when in for service, scratched paint and dirty hand prints all over.
you know i think it's amazing that a place like AMS would do this. in some arenas you here great things, but in others crap.
maybe it's just how they treat monster owners? has anyone had experiences with them other than monsters?
cause i know Scott was all nice to that 848 buyer while pushing me out the door.
who knows. fortunately i got the bike i wanted from them and will never have to go back to them.
$1017 for a 7500 mile service? Holy make the beast with two backsing ripoff batman!!!!!! I had a friend who had a 12K done on his 748 at a local dealer and it only cost him slightly more than what you paid. And he had to have a rocker replaced.
I just had a 7500 mile service done on my S2R1K. For a grand total of $300 and I also had a DP ECU installed, DP cams installed and degreed, the TPS set, the CO set, and the throttle bodies synced.
Granted I did the oil change and some of the other little things myself, but still.......
Quote from: Monstermash on October 05, 2008, 07:02:19 PM
$1017 for a 7500 mile service? Holy make the beast with two backsing ripoff batman!!!!!! I had a friend who had a 12K done on his 748 at a local dealer and it only cost him slightly more than what you paid. And he had to have a rocker replaced.
I just had a 7500 mile service done on my S2R1K. For a grand total of $300 and I also had a DP ECU installed, DP cams installed and degreed, the TPS set, the CO set, and the throttle bodies synced.
Granted I did the oil change and some of the other little things myself, but still.......
thats a steal for the cam install and degreed with it.
Quote from: Spidey on October 01, 2008, 10:41:17 PM
If they said all 8 needed adjustment, then all 8 probably needed adjustment. Based on what I've heard about their reputation, they're a dealer you can trust.
My guess is that they've adjusted you to "old school" specs, which almost certainly would have needed all 8 shims changed. If I'd had all 8 clearances out far enough to require adjustment using "new specs" at a 7500mile service, I'd be expecting to get it done under warranty!
Like people are saying though, AMS have a good reputation, and are unlikely to be intentionally ripping you off. Whether they ought to be going and doing an "old late nineties spec" valve clearance job on a new '07 or '08 bike without warning you up front about the likely costs is another question... (I would have asked them to do it if they'd offered, but I'd expect them to offer rather than just do it and give me stickershock on the bill...)
big
Quote from: bigiain on October 06, 2008, 06:34:33 PM
My guess is that they've adjusted you to "old school" specs, which almost certainly would have needed all 8 shims changed. If I'd had all 8 clearances out far enough to require adjustment using "new specs" at a 7500mile service, I'd be expecting to get it done under warranty!
Like people are saying though, AMS have a good reputation, and are unlikely to be intentionally ripping you off. Whether they ought to be going and doing an "old late nineties spec" valve clearance job on a new '07 or '08 bike without warning you up front about the likely costs is another question... (I would have asked them to do it if they'd offered, but I'd expect them to offer rather than just do it and give me stickershock on the bill...)
big
thats not the issue at hand. Im sure if they were out of spec, they would of done it.
the problem is, no one charges 20 per a shim. its usually a 1 time fee for shim exchange. If a dealer is going to charge you for the shim + install, you should get your old shims back.
AMS charged him double face value of shims and did not return his shims.
I hear this story over and over again about some of the "better" dealers out there. They, for some reason, get a pass on doing stuff like this because "hey, it's US, and we're better than the rest because we say so".
Why 4 plugs ? It's not a D16 is it?
The shim thing is crap too.
The poor guy who had the Svc. department scratch up his bike, then leave a handprint in the bike because of some solvent....and is OK with that. WHAT?!?!?!
Quote from: He Man on October 06, 2008, 06:41:58 PM
AMS charged him double face value of shims and did not return his shims.
Well, they charged him twice the EMS shim rate, it's probably about right for OEM shims.
They should have given the old ones back if they charged him for new ones though, and I also think it's pretty rude for anywhere who claims to be a "Ducati Service Specialist" to charge anything more than some small nominal fee for exchanging shims - my local (non-dealer) Ducati Mechanic lets me waltz into his workshop and dig through his cupboard full of shims and swap my old ones for free (on the understanding that I'll pay for them if my exchange ones are damaged)...
big
Quote from: TAftonomos on October 06, 2008, 07:23:08 PM
Why 4 plugs ? It's not a D16 is it?
Nope, it's a 1000 Dual Spark... (I gotta admit, I checked the OP when I first read that as well...)
big
Yeah, they didn't "offer" anything. They didn't give me a heads up on the valves. They did the work and I paid for it. I went in expecting to pay about $800. That is about the average of all the estimates we got from the 3 dealers in DFW. They did the work at the Alvaredo store not in Dallas. I talked to Scott in Dallas about doing it "by the book" and to let me know about anything unusual. If they are working on it someplace else, they are not going to know. Don't they work on bikes in Dallas?
I don't understand the 7 hours. On my S2R I did valves and belts and it did not take THAT long. Just valves?... It does not take much time to pop the tank off (remove clip, pull pin). Battery: undo cables, undo strap, remove, remove battery box. Drop oil cooler down for access to Horizontal valves. Valve covers, spring clips. No VooDoo There!
Sure it took me time, never did it on my S2R before. But once you have it opened up, I would imagine they could measure and swap every shim in about 45 minutes. For that much money, I would have to insist on watching them work. Oh please don't tell me that "customers" are not allowed in the work area.
Now that hand print thing, I would have to call them on it. If they can remove it, then fine. If not, paint my tank. Scratches? There's no need for that either. I hope it works out for you and you pay yourself in tools the next go-around by doing it yourself.
wait. 4 plugs for a DS, 2 plugs for a 4v.
Theres only 4 shims on a 2v. 1 for exahust, 1 for intake x 2 cylinders. Or am I missing something?
Quote from: He Man on October 07, 2008, 07:55:10 PM
wait. 4 plugs for a DS, 2 plugs for a 4v.
Theres only 4 shims on a 2v. 1 for exahust, 1 for intake x 2 cylinders. Or am I missing something?
Opener and closer shims on each valve.
big
Quote from: bigiain on October 07, 2008, 07:58:32 PM
Opener and closer shims on each valve.
big
oh. man. how did i not realize that one? lol
the S2R is a 4 valver?
Each cylinder has 2 valves (exhuast an intake) each valve has a closing and opening shim. so 2 shims x 2 valves x 2 cylinders is 8 shims total.
hmm......
i thought that first service at 7500 instead of 6k was in order to save customers maint. costs?
guess i misunderstood.
OHHHHHH got it. 8 shims, for 2 valves, 16 for 4 valves. geez hate to have a 4 valve service at AMS
No joke! Does anyone think that the next service will be any cheaper? Surely it won't need all 8 shims "exchanged" again now that they are perfect. It will need new belts though. I don't want to know what they sell those for. I know that I won't be paying $17 for a spark plug again. I'll bring my own next time. Do all S2R 1000 have the same specs as far as valve clearances and such? I have found a manual but is for 2006, I have 2008. I have polished the tank and gotten rid of most of the scratches. They were pretty light and easy to smooth out. I had repaint the mirrors. Again not a big deal but it's the principle.
Quote from: lilmonster on October 08, 2008, 06:37:43 PM
No joke! Does anyone think that the next service will be any cheaper? Surely it won't need all 8 shims "exchanged" again now that they are perfect. It will need new belts though. I don't want to know what they sell those for. I know that I won't be paying $17 for a spark plug again. I'll bring my own next time. Do all S2R 1000 have the same specs as far as valve clearances and such? I have found a manual but is for 2006, I have 2008. I have polished the tank and gotten rid of most of the scratches. They were pretty light and easy to smooth out. I had repaint the mirrors. Again not a big deal but it's the principle.
have you spoken to Jeff or Toni Nash, the owners? I mean if they don't fix the situation to your satisfaction, let them know not only aren't you coming back but you'll send all your friends (count em 3332 up top) to the other dealers. I mean seriously, they scratched your bike up and didnt do anything for you????????
Quote from: lilmonster on October 08, 2008, 06:37:43 PMThey were pretty light and easy to smooth out. I had repaint the mirrors. Again not a big deal but it's the principle.
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] What do you mean it's no big deal? I'm sorry, but if someone scratched my PINTO when it's getting serviced, it's getting fixed.
So what did they say about the charges now that you have gotten feedback from the board?