So i'm nearing 2k on the odometer, stock 696 (aside from sliders)
It's always run slightly warm... 4-5 bars (136-160C and 161-175C respectively) but usually at four, occasionally dipping to 3 (111-135C) on cool nights when i take 'er easy. According to a few concerned board members, the bike should be running 3 bars, occasionally 4.
Lately though, she's been running 5 pretty steadily, hitting 6 bars on occasion (176-190C).
I've had the dealer check on the "coil issue" said my bike wasn't affected. Checked myself, according to the instructions posted on the tread about that issue, and as long as it is correct (and the manual is wrong) i don't have the coil issue.
Also, when i had the 600 mile service i had them check the warm running (when it was sticking closer to the four bars) and they put it through a heat cycle and noticed no abnormal heat.
Anything i should look out for? Should i be concerned?
161 degC is 322 degF, which is quite hot, at least for an oil temperature, like the earlier model air-cooled Monsters have.
*However*, the temp sensor is on the vertical cylinder, which AFAIK, is the only engine temp sensor on the bike.
I think it's reasonable for a cylinder temp to be in that range.
The owner's manual says that gauge shows oil temp.
Oil temp consistently above 300 degF isn't a good thing.
i wouldn't be surprised if the new 696 runs just as hot or hotter than the older 620/695 engines that basically "needed" an oil cooler to keep the engine temps to a more manageable level.
put an oil cooler on that 696 and can almost guarantee that you won't see engine temps rise above 270F anymore.. i know my 620 was running at easily 270-310 without an oil cooler and with it on it never goes above 245 at the most now, and is usually in the 190-230 range.
Will there be a specific kit for the 696, or is there a cooler out there already that would fit? Price?
Quote from: Speeddog on October 02, 2008, 12:44:04 PM
161 degC is 322 degF, which is quite hot, at least for an oil temperature, like the earlier model air-cooled Monsters have.
*However*, the temp sensor is on the vertical cylinder, which AFAIK, is the only engine temp sensor on the bike.
I think it's reasonable for a cylinder temp to be in that range.
The owner's manual says that gauge shows oil temp.
Oil temp consistently above 300 degF isn't a good thing.
Do you think taking the shroud and/or canister off would allow more airflow and therefore more cooling?
Any reasons for the high temps that i should be able to do anything about? If they were offering an oil cooler i'd get one.
Is it possible that i'm running hot because i'm actually using 91 octane as recommended?
Might not help a lot that i'm running 90-100 mph on the freeway for most of my commute, but really anything less feels so slow on the bike.
What mods do you have, engine wise?
None, all i've done is put frame sliders and fork sliders on.
Just for comparison sake, I have the Termis on my 696 and I am usually running around 3-4 bars for temp. The other day I was sitting in traffic after an extended interstate run and it touched 5 bars for the first time ever. But, after I made my way back to the open road I was back at 4 then 3.
After reading this thread I called my shop and talked to one of the mechs and he said that 3-4 bars is normal. Also, he said that touching 5 in heavy traffic is not unheard of and that I shouldn't be worried.
Today I did a nice ride and I never got above 3 bars, but the outside temp was 65 or so and windy as hell.
I will be keeping an eye on the temp, but I have no reason to be concerned from what I have been experiencing. Maybe next summer I will install an oil cooler if needed and if one is available.
From what I see our temp differences could be from a couple of things.
- Termi exhaust installed on my bike.
I rarely get over 85 MPH.
how many bars do you have? what does bar 1 represent? what does bar 5 represent?
322 is way too hot. Its okay to run it like that for a little while, but you better shut of and cool down or start moving casue its only gonna get hotter.
Hmmm.. is the oil level where it should be?
Not a lot of 696's here yet, so the anecdotal information is a bit slim.
I've not yet had my hands on one.
I am moving...
and the temps are listed in the OP (in Celsius)...
one bar is the bottom, so anything up to 80C (176F)
two = 81-110C (177.8-230F)
three= 111-135C (231-275F)
Four= 136-160C (276-320F)
Five= 161-175C (321-347F)
Six= 176-190C (348-374)
Seven= 191-200C (375-392F)
Flashing Danger Full bars (seven flashing)= >201C (>393F)
thats....wtf...
anything above four bars is dangerous. You can feel the bike lose power ~300degrees (F) so why it even goes up to 392F is beyond me. Ideally you want your oil temp to be about 220-260degrees.which is the 3 bar range.
one of the more common reasons that our bikes run hot from factory is a lean mix. 320 is as high as you want to bring it. 5 bars is too hot.
Is there something special about the 696 that I'm not seeing here?
Quote from: He Man on October 02, 2008, 04:48:03 PM
-------------snip-------------
Is there something special about the 696 that I'm not seeing here?
Check my post....
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=12440.msg212883#msg212883
Temp sensor is on the vertical cylinder, so it may not *actually* be reading oil temp.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 02, 2008, 04:53:33 PM
Check my post....
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=12440.msg212883#msg212883
Temp sensor is on the vertical cylinder, so it may not *actually* be reading oil temp.
Ahhh. missed that! Now it makes a lot more sense. Is it suppose to be an oil temp gauge? I would inmagine your combustion chamber temp is near that of exahust temp. which would be much closer to your numbers.
Quote from: He Man on October 02, 2008, 05:03:11 PM
Ahhh. missed that! Now it makes a lot more sense. Is it suppose to be an oil temp gauge? I would inmagine your combustion chamber temp is near that of exahust temp. which would be much closer to your numbers.
Yes, it's supposed to be oil temp. Supposedly most other 696 without the "coil issue" run 3 bars... (there were some overheat issues with a few of the affected bikes though.
I hate that the manual doesn't say what "normal operating temperature's" are... I mean, i know that if it reaches the point where the bars flash, i'm in trouble... but if i've got a few bars to go 'til i'm there then i wouldn't otherwise be concerned. (aside from the concern expressed from Dave R from Duc Seatle, when i mentioned four bars in another thread).
After reading this post I have been making some calls. As a matter of fact I just got off the phone with a Duc dealer in CA. I asked them about the temp readings/bars and told them that I am normally in the 3-4 bar range and they said "you are in there, NO worries". They also said that the bike will shut itself off before it causes any damage. If that is true, fine.
I am a little confused on the temp sensor location. Is it only on the vert cyl or is it a combination of this and oil temp? IDK. The manual says that the Bar range is an indication of OIL TEMP. But, the average joe (me) wouldn't know if that is truth or if they use the vert cyl for the temp reading. As long as I am in the range (yet to be specified) that is safe.
When I get my hands on a 696, I'll try to get temp readings with an IR gun, comparing the sensor mount region with the sump area.
I can't believe that it's really reading oil temp, as when *that* gets above 300 degF the oil starts deteriorating rapidly.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 02, 2008, 06:22:15 PM
When I get my hands on a 696, I'll try to get temp readings with an IR gun, comparing the sensor mount region with the sump area.
I can't believe that it's really reading oil temp, as when *that* gets above 300 degF the oil starts deteriorating rapidly.
That's the thing that gets me, if over 300 is so bad, then why would 300 be less than halfway up the gauge? Seems as though four bars is mid-level, five is slightly above (understandable since i'm running pretty hard, pushing a lot of wind at ~100mph) i'd imagine 6 to be "watch yourself", and 7 to be "you're hot, cool it off."
Quote from: Speeddog on October 02, 2008, 06:22:15 PM
When I get my hands on a 696, I'll try to get temp readings with an IR gun, comparing the sensor mount region with the sump area.
I can't believe that it's really reading oil temp, as when *that* gets above 300 degF the oil starts deteriorating rapidly.
Speeddog, thanks for your effort in this thread. I know that I really appreciate it.
If I may ask as a noob here, where did you find that the temp "pick up" is on the very cyl? I'm not questioning your knowledge, but just verifying. Also, do you know where one can score a service manual for the 696?
Quote from: be350ka on October 02, 2008, 07:59:03 PM
Speeddog, thanks for your effort in this thread. I know that I really appreciate it.
If I may ask as a noob here, where did you find that the temp "pick up" is on the very cyl? I'm not questioning your knowledge, but just verifying. Also, do you know where one can score a service manual for the 696?
As the OP i also appreciate his insight immensely.
The Manual is available online through the Ducati site as a pdf. The link was posted in a thread not long after the bike came out.
Quote from: zedsaid on October 02, 2008, 08:01:59 PM
As the OP i also appreciate his insight immensely.
The Manual is available online through the Ducati site as a pdf. The link was posted in a thread not long after the bike came out.
Just downloaded. Thanks.
You can download the parts catalogue from ducati.com as well, it's very helpful for understanding how the bike is put together.
That's how I got the info on where the temp sensor was.
As far as a real service manual, AFAIK your dealer is going to be the only source.
Some of the very basic engine stuff would be covered by the DesmoTimes 2-valve bike manual, but there's a good bit of stuff that's different on the 696 engine vs. the previous air-cooled Ducs.
All of the chassis and bodywork stuff is totally new to the Monster line, though it does have some similarities to the MultiStrada (that's not necessarily good, from a service standpoint :( ).
Quote from: Speeddog on October 02, 2008, 08:26:17 PM
You can download the parts catalogue from ducati.com as well, it's very helpful for understanding how the bike is put together.
That's how I got the info on where the temp sensor was.
As far as a real service manual, AFAIK your dealer is going to be the only source.
Some of the very basic engine stuff would be covered by the DesmoTimes 2-valve bike manual, but there's a good bit of stuff that's different on the 696 engine vs. the previous air-cooled Ducs.
All of the chassis and bodywork stuff is totally new to the Monster line, though it does have some similarities to the MultiStrada (that's not necessarily good, from a service standpoint :( ).
Hey, I have one quick question for you. If you look at the parts manual and go to drawing 10, look at part number 43. It is listed as a "sensor", but what is that thing sensing?
Pretty sure that's the ignition trigger.
zedsaid is wrong with those temperatures. Look in the manual.
Quote from: Armor on October 03, 2008, 09:52:22 AM
zedsaid is wrong with those temperatures. Look in the manual.
I got them from the manual. When i say "three bars" it is "status 4" and the Fahrenheit temps were converted via http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm
Quote from: Armor on October 03, 2008, 09:52:22 AM
zedsaid is wrong with those temperatures. Look in the manual.
His posts match my copy of the manual.
Well, over the past few days I have had several conversations with DNA about this issue. Again, my bike seems to be running fairly cool (in comparison), but none the less. DNA told me that the temp readings are an actual oil temp. I questioned this based on the temp sensor location, but they insisted that the sensor on the vert cyl head PLUS another one gave you the oil temp. Really? Whatever.
They told me that I should just keep an eye on the temp and if I am getting too high that I should give it a rest. Now, I understand that this is an aircooled motorcycle, but when your scale has 8 bars and you are running slightly over half I find it difficult to believe that you are running WAY TO HOT. Nice graduation!!
Anyway, I think we are still at square one on this as it seemed that DNA is learning as we are. So, keep up the investigation and lets get this figured out. By the way, I have another email in to them about oil coolers as the mounting brackets are on the 696. There just isnt a kit specific to this model. Anyone know of a kit that WOULD FIT NO PROBLEM??? I will be putting an oil cooler on my bike before next summer.
He didn't happen to mention what "too high" is?
Keep in mind, folks, first, we are talking oil temperature, not water temperature. Also, as Speeddog said, the sending unit is high on the vertical cylinder. Assuming the sensor is in an oil passage the oil would be hotter than in the sump, particularly if it is in a return passage. Most likely, the temperature of the metal of the vertical cylinder would also affect the reading.
you know i never saw above 4 once i got my coil fixed. of course i didnt sit in traffic. but we did have 90+ days and still no 5s. i dont know. maybe need to go back to square one and check it again.
has anyone else saw above 4 with normal riding? is there a temp difference when riding and staying away from the 4-4.5k rpm range?
The oil cooler should be able to be purchased when spare parts come in for the 1100 right? i mean it's the same kit.
Well, I just got some additional info from DNA. When they say hot they are talking about extended ops above 4 bars. They did say that the 696 could very well see the 5 bar mark while sitting in traffic while there is no airflow. They said that if you are seeing 5 bars, or more, as a norm then you should have the bike looked at.
I have never seen above 4 bars while riding on the streets with little traffic. Today I rode to the shop which included some stop and go traffic through town. When I finally made it to the dealer I was at 4 bars on a 72 degree day. I talked to the shop owner about normal operating temps and he said that what I was experiencing was normal (3-4 regular 5 on occasion). On my ride back home I did some sitting in traffic where I saw 5 bars pop up until I started moving again. Then it dropped to 4 and eventually back to 3. I played around a little to see how much I could push the bike before I hit 4 again and it took a little higher RPM for a minute or two. This after I had the pleasure of sitting in traffic. Not too bad, I think. I wish that I could get it a little cooler.
It all depends on where the temp is taken from. As another poster has pointed out, there is a temp sensor on the vert cyl, but DNA told me that there was another sensor that is used for temp as well. True? I'm not totally sure that they know either. Help?
Now! Oil coolers! The DNA rep talked to their accessories manager about the oil cooler for the 696. This is what I got for a response:
"I’ve checked with the Ducati Accessories Manager. There will more than likely be a Ducati Performance oil cooler for the 696; however, Ducati has not released a confirmation at this time."
So, it sounds like one is on the way! But the real question is when?
look at that like you mentioned an oil cooler is along the way. i figure it will come around "conveniently" around the same time the monster 1100 start showing up.
as the 1100 probably has an oil cooler and they will need to supply replacement parts for that that will "conveniently" be the same thing for the 696 that can be added as an aftermarket product as a "safety" measure.
as an example the other day on my 620, was sitting in LA traffic and with the oil cooler on finally got up to 260F on an 80F day , as a comparison, without the oil cooler on it sitting on an even cooler day in traffic i was easily always in the 290F range on a 75F day sitting in traffic.
IMO, regardless of what DNA says about the smaller displacement bikes not "needing" an oil cooler, i'll guarantee when it comes out for the 696 it will make a huge difference in oil temperatures, you'll probably almost never see 4 comeing up again except on really really hot days in traffic.
zedsaid,
so going back to your original post. there isn't something right with your bike. can you take it to another dealer to get the coil issue checked again? they would be the best starting point it seems.
Quote from: Raux on October 11, 2008, 06:51:08 AM
zedsaid,
so going back to your original post. there isn't something right with your bike. can you take it to another dealer to get the coil issue checked again? they would be the best starting point it seems.
I'll do some more checking...
for now, i stepped down to 87 octane, and it seems to be running a little cooler, without any noticeable side effects.