For the first time I (just) sat on a 848 the other day. (I'm 6'4") I always thought the SBKs would be too cramped for me even to consider, but it didn't feel too bad. I'm thinking about how much more fun the twisties/track might be, but I'm also worried about how the longer rides I love so much will be like.
I'm going for a test ride on a 1098 to see if the ergonomics are possible to accept. (Yes, I will be cautious)
In the meantime - maybe you guys with experience on both bikes can tell me what to expect in terms of every day use, especially ergonomically.
If you typically ride in wide open spaces the sbk will be fine IMO.
If you are city bound I'd stick with a Monster.
Yes...
I own both.
The 848 is wonderful if you ride it like it was designed. Flipping it through the corners. It does have a tad bit of room to scoot up against the tank if you are on a longer straighter ride. But if you hit rush hour... don't expect your wrists to be too happy. Mine went numb trying to get home at rush hour.
My unasked for $.02:
You have done a bunch of "touring mods" to your S2R (bar risers, touring windscreen, etc.)...now you are thinking SBK?????? If you weren't happy w/ the monsters ergos, what makes you think you will be happy with the SBK ergos? Not to sound like a jerk, but just asking.
Quote from: rockaduc on October 13, 2008, 03:29:00 PM
My unasked for $.02:
You have done a bunch of "touring mods" to your S2R (bar risers, touring windscreen, etc.)...now you are thinking SBK?????? If you weren't happy w/ the monsters ergos, what makes you think you will be happy with the SBK ergos? Not to sound like a jerk, but just asking.
I'm gradually getting to enjoy a more spirited riding pattern/position where the rearsets go rear and the bars might very well be lower, plus raising the rear. I'm still undecided on the comfort issues - on the "touring modded" Monster I'm happy in city traffic and when "cruising". These days it seems my pattern is shifting away from the comfort and into a little more active riding. If a SBK will be too much is what I'm curious about. A test ride will hopefully answer that.
If my situation is unclear you might also look here (if you have the time): http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13009.0
Quote from: ryandalling on October 13, 2008, 03:22:52 PM
The 848 is wonderful if you ride it like it was designed. Flipping it through the corners. It does have a tad bit of room to scoot up against the tank if you are on a longer straighter ride. But if you hit rush hour... don't expect your wrists to be too happy. Mine went numb trying to get home at rush hour.
In that situation (rush hour or similar), are your arms straight and you lean on them?
Keep your bike and bet the 848.
Quote from: ryandalling on October 13, 2008, 03:22:52 PM
The 848 is wonderful if you ride it like it was designed. Flipping it through the corners. It does have a tad bit of room to scoot up against the tank if you are on a longer straighter ride. But if you hit rush hour... don't expect your wrists to be too happy. Mine went numb trying to get home at rush hour.
+1
I went from the Monster to the 848.
You have to get used to that riding position. The SBK's are quite different and less versatile than the Monster. They're bikes made for racing. Out in the hills, they're a dream. In traffic its sucky. But I ride mine daily in traffic.
You should not be keeping a lot of weight on your bars. Use your core muscles and your legs, keep your forearms horizontal, elbows bent, & your wrists straight, head down, neck/back straight. It takes some getting in shape. Its ridiculously fun riding though if you can get into it.
Side note: IMHO
Where one is difficult the other makes up and vise versa. The SBK is harder to stay in a good riding position, but way easier to throw around from side to side. Way more aerodynamic and easier to navigate against the wind - especially on the freeway or just going really fast. etc etc. I liken them a bit to a road bicycle verses a mountain bike.
My opinion on the 848 changes depending on my last ride. If I had to commute down 101 for an hour, I'm ready to sell it and buy another Monster. If it's through the hills, I can't say enough about it. It's wildly impractical for anything other than what it was designed for.
It will be more fun!
With adjustable rearsets and some risers you will still be a Little cramped....
Me-
6'2 - 190
I went from an S2R w/clip ons, to a 999 this spring.
The 999 has some FBF clip on risers- and with the adjustability of the rearsets, I have found the 999 to be more comfortable than my S2R.
As many people already stated - its no fun in stop and go, or slow riding (under 40 mph) - unless you change the gearing.
If you live in a place with lots of corners, not many LEOs, and fresh pavment - or if you plan on doing track days- a SBK is THE choice.
Deciding to acquire the 999 was the best decision i've made in a long time. It has helped me take my riding to the next level. ( finally got my knee down, got a full race kit (suit, helmet, boots, gloves) and took it to the track, bumped to blue on my second day- now i'm crunching numbers for racing, or a lot of track days next summer)
I am much more comfortable on the 848/1098 than the stock monster. Only problem with the 1098 is my legs are too short to lock my knee into the tank crease (you should be fine). I'd need rearsets an inch and a half up to be able to tense my calf and lock in.
But low and close bars for me are nicer than farther and middle or high. Hold yourself up with your core and flap those arms in happiness.
But I am apparantly a fluke and my opinion should be taken as such.... so go with the masses.
The SBK is obviously a lot more aggressive than a monster as far as posture but I'm not really cramped at all on the 848 or 1098. I've had the opportunity to ride both and I've been exceptionally comfortable other than sliding forward into the tank. I'm 6'4" and 250 so I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. But sliding onto the tank does require some adjustment.
Get the 848, Keep the monster as well. It's my philosophy that everyone should have a monster and a SBK ;D
I'll tell you right now that the superbike is no fun in the city. Your ass feels like it's being roasted within 10 mins and the clutch is so hard, even with aftermarket plates and cylinders that you start getting a left forearm to rival Popeye's. The monster, On the other hand, is the perfect city bike.
But the second you hit a corner in the SBK and let it rip for all it's worth, you're transported back to when you were a little kid and without knowing it you've just done 3 hours of twisties and you've had the most fun you've ever had while still wearing your clothes. ;D
I think you'd be fine. I've gone the other way, and I still sit myself like I'm on a sportsbike - forearms parallel to the road, holding myself up with lower back muscles and stomach muscles (not that I have many of the second - you have met me, way too many [drink] for me to have a sixpack, I just have a keg). Obviously I'm a touch shorter than you, but if you sit in the right position then a superbike riding position is very comfortable.
Most of the complaints come from people either resting too much weight on their wrists or trying to keep themselves upright. For the more rotund amongst us, like me, you can even relax the back and stomach muscles and using your gut on the tank as a prop!
Quote from: El Matador on October 13, 2008, 11:55:22 PM
Get the 848, Keep the monster as well. It's my philosophy that everyone should have a monster and a SBK ;D
I'll copy and paste this into my bank loan application ;)
Quote from: ellingly on October 13, 2008, 11:59:06 PM
Most of the complaints come from people either resting too much weight on their wrists or trying to keep themselves upright. For the more rotund amongst us, like me, you can even relax the back and stomach muscles and using your gut on the tank as a prop!
A valid reason to keep the extra weight then [laugh]
I think I'll be fine when riding it as it's supposed to, but I suspect I'll be trying to straighten my arms/sitting up when in city traffic.
Quote from: stopintime on October 14, 2008, 01:43:30 AM
A valid reason to keep the extra weight then [laugh]
I think I'll be fine when riding it as it's supposed to, but I suspect I'll be trying to straighten my arms/sitting up when in city traffic.
Yeah, the secret is just keeping as much weight off your arms as possible. I find that if I do try to straighten my arms and sit upright a bit more then I tend to put more weight on my wrists. If you're capable of holding your torso up with your back and stomach muscles then you're fine :). Although I sold my last sportsbike to get the Monster cause I wanted to be more comfortable on the commute, that was more a case of uncomfortable seat, more unforgiving suspension and generally a motor that required the absolute nuts rung out of it to go anywhere (not a Ducati, hence needing this!). None of it was the ergos of feet right up, body over and holding myself up.
Ignoring rider preference... far more girls want to go for a ride on the Monster than any sportsbike I've owned. I think that's really the key to what bike one should have!
Well..sounds like a perfect reason to wait for the Fighter .
Monsterlike capabilities with SBK power and handling.
Thats the reason I am looking forward to it to.
So the Fighter will have it all, including the pull on the girls? 8)
One note on the SBK ergo's.
Much depends on your body ratios. I'm 6'2" but I'm not all legs. I can imagine someone with really long legs might want to get lowered rear sets. They're pretty high so you can lean the bike at pretty extreme angles. Other wise, its comfy if you're in the correct riding position.
Who knows what the fighter will be like. We'll wait and see.
PS -
I just met a friend who works for APPLE. He was hired out to DUCATI to work on some software. DNA is almost across the street from the APPLE campus in Cupertino. He said they'd done a bunch of work on the SBK interface, and was working on the new 2009 bikes. That's pretty sweet. [thumbsup] They do tight work those guys.
The 848/1098 isn't built for comfort by any stretch.
Just for grins take a ride on a 999S if you can. I find em a little more comfortable than the 1098. I'm only 6'2".
There's a Termi kitted 1121cc stroker 14:1 999R built by a genius at our local shop with very low miles for $24,000. ;D ;D ;D Probably be a great commuter.
On thing some of us like about the RS monster is that you sorta get both in the same bike.
LA
ergos are soooo personal. I'm 5'10 with a 29 inch inseam. what works for me doesn't work for a lot of folks.
I'm 6'5"....35" inseam, 35" sleeve length. 235 lbs.
On my S4Rs I find that I am very comfortable in a slightly athletic postion on the street/ backroads.
On the 1098 R it is more like a I am getting intimate w, my bike. I use a foam back pad out of a Textile riding jacket for a little extra padding for the derrier.
I try to grip the the lower part of the gastank w, my knees and keep my grip light on the handgrips .
It seems easier to move the bike in the corners by using as much of my lower body by let's say going into a left hand corner I push against the lower rightside of the gas tank as I lean to the left and the bike seems to be much more compliant w, the light touch on the bars.
If you put too much of your weight on your wrists it makes the SBK more difficult to handle , it makes your wrists hurt. and it takes the large lower muscles out of the steering process and by making the bike more difficult to handle you will tire out your upper body as well.
Learn to ride w, a very light touch on the hand grips and use your legs , your hips and legs to push against the lower part of the gastank to help turn the bike.
Practice 'til it feels natural .It won't take that long. Try it on your Monster in the meantime. Dolph
Quote from: Desmostro on October 13, 2008, 04:21:29 PM
I liken them a bit to a road bicycle verses a mountain bike.
+1. I also like to compare them to my cars. The monster I used to own was closely related to my highly modified VR6 driven GTI, and my sportbike (it's a Daytona which seems a little more extreme in the ergos than the 848) is like my Honda S2000.
I have to travel about 19 miles to work each way, which can sometimes take up to an hour + depending on what time I get out the door in the mornings. I used to commute on my old S2R800, but have been doing the same trip on the Daytona since I sold the monster. The Daytona took a while to get used to as a commuter, but I love it now that I have gotten used to it.
I don't think you would have that hard of a time with the 848 as a daily rider after your body got used to the position. It would make a MUCH better commuter than a 1098 just in the fact that you aren't constantly pulling on that dry clutch's lever all the time when you get stuck in traffic.
Thanks guys, this has been helpful. [bow_down]
I just had the urge, maybe even stronger than when I got my Monster.
I'm sure I will get one at some point, just one of those things I need to have done. For the next year or two I will concentrate on my own and the Monster's capabilities - improving suspension and brakes, working on the set up, ergonomics, riding position AND my skills.
If the time comes when I "must" have a SBK to improve my lap times, then I'll get one.
I am seriously considering the swap from my 620 to an 848.
Been doing a few track days lately and I feel like I am pushing the 620 a little too much.
I have to go for another test ride, I have had the pleasure of a 1098s for a few days but it was very early in my re-education in riding.
Meaning I couldn't really appreciate it to it's full extent.
I'd love to have both bikes but here in Oz that is an investment of $30-$35k.
I have the same sort of feeling, if you are planning on or do ride an SBK as an everyday traffic machine you may struggle.
A Monster would likely be better suited to this sort of work but get the SBK out where it really belongs and it will out pace the Monster no doubt.
Quote from: mattyvas on October 20, 2008, 12:43:16 AM
I am seriously considering the swap from my 620 to an 848.
Been doing a few track days lately and I feel like I am pushing the 620 a little too much.
I have to go for another test ride, I have had the pleasure of a 1098s for a few days but it was very early in my re-education in riding.
Meaning I couldn't really appreciate it to it's full extent.
I'd love to have both bikes but here in Oz that is an investment of $30-$35k.
I have the same sort of feeling, if you are planning on or do ride an SBK as an everyday traffic machine you may struggle.
A Monster would likely be better suited to this sort of work but get the SBK out where it really belongs and it will out pace the Monster no doubt.
Dont consider, do!
It's just the $$$ to make it happen.
But I'm trying.
Quote from: stopintime on October 18, 2008, 02:22:40 PM
Thanks guys, this has been helpful. [bow_down]
I just had the urge, maybe even stronger than when I got my Monster.
I'm sure I will get one at some point, just one of those things I need to have done. For the next year or two I will concentrate on my own and the Monster's capabilities - improving suspension and brakes, working on the set up, ergonomics, riding position AND my skills.
If the time comes when I "must" have a SBK to improve my lap times, then I'll get one.
You know I did just that. I've been working on my skills for over 30 years. [laugh] I have done just about all that can be done to my Monster to make it handle better & better. There is still room for improvement and it's only a question of throwing more time & money at it. For almost 2 years I had a 999 concurent with the Monster. I'd jump back & forth between the two and it always took a little time to adjust to the differences but the 999 was just flat out better. My bottom line is that if you want superbike handling you simply have to have the superbike. It handles far better and you will never get the Monster to that point. You can make it better, sure, and you can make yourself better. That's all good. You won't ever be as good on the Monster as you will on the superbike. Take two years if you want, no harm in that. If you have the bug, and it sounds like you do, then just get the superbike. It'll be better in the long run.
Quote from: Statler on October 17, 2008, 04:40:57 PM
ergos are soooo personal. I'm 5'10 with a 29 inch inseam. what works for me doesn't work for a lot of folks.
holy crap one of the flounders is my long lost twin ;D
Just finding riding gear or jeans is a pain in the ass.....let alone trying to ride a taller bike [roll]
Quote from: ducpainter on October 13, 2008, 03:09:01 PM
If you typically ride in wide open spaces the sbk will be fine IMO.
If you are city bound I'd stick with a Monster.
Yes...
I own both.
+1 on what Ducpainter said...
I too own both
the 1098 I rode turned like a bus and wouldn't finish corners happily on the gas.
at our level it's more important to have the bike set up for the rider than any fine points of frame design.
an 'individualized' monster will feel better handling than an sbk out of the crate and not set for you.
go with the ergos you like unless you're doing lots of track time.
Quote from: mac900 on October 22, 2008, 09:59:00 AM
If you have the bug, and it sounds like you do, then just get the superbike. It'll be better in the long run.
Listen to His Macness, he speaks truth.
Quote from: lawbreaker on October 22, 2008, 12:37:24 PM
+1 on what Ducpainter said...
I too own both
owning both is the way to go....
I should probably clarify.
My SBK is track only.
My monster is set up well enough for any street riding. I don't ride on the street much anymore.
YESSS
Today I tested the 848 for an hour, so I'll answer some of my own questions.
Wow - this was entertaining. I haven't been on a 4v and it was very smooth, dare I say bordering on boring(?) Above 6-7k revs it was really aggressive and red line appeared quickly. Under 6k revs it wasn't impressive. Maybe it needs to loose the stock exhaust.
Compared to my S2R 800 the brakes and suspension are of another world, steady and controllable.
Ergonomics:
Once again I was surprised how comfortable I felt.
The seat is fine, not even close to making my butt hurt. There is plenty of space for me, but I would be embarrassed to offer a passenger a ride. Working the core muscles felt natural and there was absolutely no fatigue. One of the best experiences was that the loose grip and relaxed elbows felt natural. The gearing isn't catastrophic for city riding and the wet clutch is light and smooth.
Mod wish list:
Rearsets - I would want the pegs further back. Screen - taller. Exhaust - the full package please. Kriega backpack or a hip pack for any luggage.
Mirror wideners - I had to lift my arm to see anything behind me. I'm sure there would be a lot more.......
What I learned about my Monster:
It seems to me that one of the main obstacles for a "correct" grip/arm position is the lack of handlebar sweep. My hands hurt if I don't point my elbows out a bit, and that is not good for the required "loose elbows, loose grip" concept. S2R 800 brakes and suspension are close to garbage, at least for a heavy rider. I immediately adjusted my rearsets way back, it helps me work the core muscles better.
Conclusion 1: (for now)
My price tag (trading the Monster) for the 848 with required mods will be about $ 18,000 - and the 1098 will be about $28,000.
At this point - a no brainer; it's not worth it for me. Although I will not forget the feeling and it will happen some day.
Conclusion 2:
Improve my Monster with new suspension and brakes, playing with the bar rotation, maybe removing my risers, maybe a Rizoma bar for added sweep or raised clip ons if there are any (clearance issues?). I will keep the Monster for another couple of years. It is plenty powerful and will be a race machine (compared) once I do the upgraded brakes/suspension.
Thank you all for listening, helping and commenting [thumbsup]
Good write up. A friend of mine just bought an 848 about two weeks ago and he keeps trying to get me to test ride it. I am holding off for two reasons: 1) because I want to wait until he has the bike fully broken in and 2) because I don't really want to do anything that will get me traveling down the road of selling my Daytona for an 848. 8)
Quote from: DRKWNG on October 25, 2008, 11:51:37 AMand 2) because I don't really want to do anything that will get me traveling down the road of selling my Daytona for an 848. 8)
You lie like a rug. [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: mac900 on October 26, 2008, 02:17:30 PM
You lie like a rug. [laugh] [laugh]
SHOOSH Gixxer boy!