OK here's my situation: I have an 03 m620 and want to do an engine swap.
I have searched for hours upon hours for info on squeezing a 2005 s4r engine into a m620 frame and only found one thread on the old board that started about 3/4 of the way through the project and all pictures were gone.
I've tried the ducati.com manuals and realize that there are many extra bits that will be needed but I would like to hear from anyone with experience on these motors.
my questions:
What swingarms will fit?
Will I have to modify the frame for the case/swingarm pivot?
Will my wiring harness work with this? Doesn't seem likely but the 03 m620 wiring harness will work for a 800 swap right?
Or will I have to find an s4r harness complete with gauges, keys, card, and all?
Here are some pics of what I am thinking of buying:
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr305/mason95_photos/027-2.jpg)
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr305/mason95_photos/028-2.jpg)
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr305/mason95_photos/029-2.jpg)
In your opinion Is this a worthy winter project and do you think I'll be able to find all of the parts to make everything work right?
Also, any threads you can recall or helpful links for any info on this would be much appreciated.
I know it would be so much easier to just get a 900 or 800 but I want to keep fuel injection and I want the dry clutch.........plus a butload of power.
thanks in advance
flame on
What's your motivation?
If you want to say, with pride, "I did it!" then it doesn't really matter how hard it will be. The challenge and accomplishment will be enough reward.
If you are trying to save some money, then you are crazy to even try. Sell the 620, buy a S4R and call it a day. This project will be a money pit by comparison. And that's if you don't upgrade the brakes, suspension and everything else to S4R specs...
All good points Mickey.
I do really look forward to spending time on a large winterlong project and enjoy creating and tinkering in general.
As for the cost, well your right but it'll be spread over a larger period of time and if I just went out and bought an s4r I would undoubtedly be more mods and tweaks costing more money. So I guess they're all money pits in a way.
This way I'll be able to build it how I want it from the start.
I just want to find out as much as possible before I jump on this motor.
Hey, and maybe this one isn't the way to go. I'm certainly open to suggestions. But I'm pretty convinced I want to do a swap.
Quote from: mmakay on October 18, 2008, 01:14:08 PM
What's your motivation?
If you want to say, with pride, "I did it!" then it doesn't really matter how hard it will be. The challenge and accomplishment will be enough reward.
If you are trying to save some money, then you are crazy to even try. Sell the 620, buy a S4R and call it a day. This project will be a money pit by comparison. And that's if you don't upgrade the brakes, suspension and everything else to S4R specs...
If you want a project, why not pick up an S4R frame and go form there?
You'll soon find most of the things on the 620 were never designed for the sort of power. Your brakes, suspension will all be inadequate. You're going to have a large number of problems, assuming you get it to work. Have you ever taken on a project like this before?
And I can't express how much of a money pit this will be. Modded bikes are never worth remotely close to what you put into them. For example, take a look at the infamous SS2R Stu built. Absolutely beautiful bike. Apparently built for over 30k.
Listed on ebay for 15K starting. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ALCA%3AUS%3A31&viewitem=&item=260290659295
No bids, not sold.
Then relisted for 10k starting.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Monster_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a13Q7c240Q3a1309QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem260296922702QQitemZ260296922702 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Monster_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a13Q7c240Q3a1309QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem260296922702QQitemZ260296922702)
No bids. Not sold. This will be a money pit. IMO, not worth it.
The bottom has fallen out of the luxury toys / expensive doodads market, you can get an S4R for about 6-7 grand and sell your 620 for about 3-3500.
Aside from the engine, there are many, many components that are vastly superior on the S4R over the 620. I really wouldn't bother, personally.
Innocent, well-minded winter projects rarely end up being inexpensive or fun.
Adam
i have very little to add, except that the gas tanks are different underneath (if i recall correctly)
probably end up with nothing left of the 620 but the seat
Just to name the things you'll need that I can think of off the top of my head...
An S4R ecu, gauge, key set...
An S4R wiring harness...
An S4/S4R gas tank...
An S4/S4R battery box...
A radiator...
edit: oh yeah, throttle bodies too...
Look up the prices on those and then decide if you really want to take on this project.
(That is the ultra-rare left-side clutch and timing belt desmoquattro though...)
Quote from: Rameses on October 18, 2008, 10:50:20 PM
(That is the ultra-rare left-side clutch and timing belt desmoquattro though...)
[laugh] [laugh]
Deals are out there if you look and are patient.
I picked up a 2007 team usa motor/wiring/ecu/guages for my 999 for $2K shipped to my door. COMPLETE.
You have to ask yourself, can you do all the work/labor? If you can, I say go for it. If you're going to be paying "ducati shop labor rates", I wouldn't even think about it.
why not spend the money on the bike you have now.
modify the stock engine with a big bore kit, stroke it. new cams, lightweight fly wheel etc...
lighten it, carbon fiber everything... see if you can get down to 300lbs as a challange.
seriously you could make a hell of a 620. make the 620 an even faster bike. cause from what i read here the 620 is the fastest Duc!
i would rather see that done than tear apart a good bike to make something that is already done. an S4R.
A more reasonable/easy/cheaper swap would be a 800-900-1000cc 2v air-cooled motor.
Quote from: DarkStaR on October 19, 2008, 09:47:13 AM
A more reasonable/easy/cheaper swap would be a 800-900-1000cc 2v air-cooled motor.
i think only the 800 would be the same motor right. cause the 620 is a destroke 800 right?
but the rep of a 620 that is the fastest 620 out there would be killer.
Quote from: Rameses on October 18, 2008, 10:50:20 PM
Just to name the things you'll need that I can think of off the top of my head...
An S4R ecu, gauge, key set...
An S4R wiring harness...
An S4/S4R gas tank...
An S4/S4R battery box...
A radiator...
edit: oh yeah, throttle bodies too...
Look up the prices on those and then decide if you really want to take on this project.
(That is the ultra-rare left-side clutch and timing belt desmoquattro though...)
yes, complete with the also rare reversed letters on the engine case [thumbsup]
[clap]
edit: maybe spend the money on a digital camera?
I started asking something similar. http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13295.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13295.0)
Yea, I'm talking about a 748/853, but the concept is similar, 4V motor in a Monster. A lot of valid info is discussed on the compatibility of various parts.
Those that are saying you should just sell and buy an S4 are probably right, if you simply want more bike. But if you're looking for something to keep you busy over the winter, then I say why not. The S4 motor will fit, with a lot of work.
oh come on. make a MONSTER 620 motor!
i vote no S4R motor.
ooo oooo ooo add a poll to this.
620 big bore/stroker with cams etc
4V engine swap
2V engine swap
dont add boobies cause you wont get any other votes.
Great input everybody- and I was supriseed to see that it wasn't all flaming and actual constructive advice. [clap]
So I think I'm talked out of this motor but I still need a project and more horsepower. [evil]
The ultimate 620 sleeper does sound pretty cool but just how much can you squeeze out of a 620?
So how about this project: anyone know if Chris at Desmotion still has that s2r 1000
The ad says it still has everything but the gauges and ECU. That sounds like it shouldn't be all that hard or too incredibly expensive even if I had to buy the gauges and ECU from a dealer.
I'm definately capable of doing all the work on these projects but just lack some Ducati specific knowledge. Thats where you guys are so helpful. [beer]
Quote from: Raux on October 19, 2008, 10:04:32 AM
i think only the 800 would be the same motor right. cause the 620 is a destroke 800 right?
but the rep of a 620 that is the fastest 620 out there would be killer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the '03 620 has the 5 speed trans. Also, I believe there may have been other HP improvements (valves/head?) on the later 620.
Getting rid of that motor/trans would be a good start IMO. And if the motors out, might as well go big while their at it.
Quote from: mason95 on October 19, 2008, 11:01:40 AM
Great input everybody- and I was supriseed to see that it wasn't all flaming and actual constructive advice. [clap]
So I think I'm talked out of this motor but I still need a project and more horsepower. [evil]
The ultimate 620 sleeper does sound pretty cool but just how much can you squeeze out of a 620?
So how about this project: anyone know if Chris at Desmotion still has that s2r 1000
The ad says it still has everything but the gauges and ECU. That sounds like it shouldn't be all that hard or too incredibly expensive even if I had to buy the gauges and ECU from a dealer.
I'm definately capable of doing all the work on these projects but just lack some Ducati specific knowledge. Thats where you guys are so helpful. [beer]
What about a ... supercharger? [evil]
Adam
Quote from: mason95 on October 19, 2008, 11:01:40 AM
The ultimate 620 sleeper does sound pretty cool but just how much can you squeeze out of a 620?
try to get the bike as powerful as possible AND as light as possible
maybe shoot for +25% HP (75HP) and near 350lb targets (39lb diet) to begin with.
do you have the Sie or just ie.
Start with the aluminum swingarm of the S if you dont have it.
i bet you could make the baddest 620 with that. then you could tell us how much you could squeeze out of it.
Quote from: Raux on October 19, 2008, 07:16:13 PM
try to get the bike as powerful as possible AND as light as possible
maybe shoot for +25% HP (75HP) and near 350lb targets (39lb diet) to begin with.
do you have the Sie or just ie.
Start with the aluminum swingarm of the S if you dont have it.
i bet you could make the baddest 620 with that. then you could tell us how much you could squeeze out of it.
+1
Plus some lightweight mag wheels, a proper suspension ... Then get crackin on the HP [evil]
Update.
thanks all for the help.
I thought about the 620 mods but decided against for a # of reasons.
However, I have a new plan that involves a 2006 s2r 1000 that has some damage but a clean title. Pretty much a complete bike. Not sure about the frame though. I'll know this weekend whether or not it is mine.
And if I get it I'm sure I'll be seeking more the collective wisdom of this site.
cheers, [drink]
Paul
I'll buy the S4r motor off you.