On another Ducati site, I was whining about my gas mileage and someone recommended using 87 (gasp) octane fuel.
I have a 2006 ST3, and the manual is alarmingly clear: 93 octane (Premium) only.
What's the compression ratio on your scooter? What octane do you use? How long? Any octane-related problems?
Thanks.
George
Quote from: GeorgeInDallas on October 24, 2008, 07:53:43 PM
On another Ducati site, I was whining about my gas mileage and someone recommended using 87 (gasp) octane fuel.
I have a 2006 ST3, and the manual is alarmingly clear: 103 octane only.
That cannot be right. 93 is the highest you can get at typical gas pump. Any higher, and you are using race fuel (about $15-20/gallon nowadays). In California, the highest they even have is 91 Octane.
Quote from: cm on October 24, 2008, 08:27:53 PM
That cannot be right. 93 is the highest you can get at typical gas pump. Any higher, and you are using race fuel (about $15-20/gallon nowadays). In California, the highest they even have is 91 Octane.
I beg your pardon, you are correct. I use 93 octane - I think the manual calls for some higher number, but that, I am told, is a Euro octane number. I will correct my original post, if possible.
I'm still curious as to what others use.
Quote from: GeorgeInDallas on October 24, 2008, 07:53:43 PM
On another Ducati site, I was whining about my gas mileage and someone recommended using 87 (gasp) octane fuel.
I have a 2006 ST3, and the manual is alarmingly clear: 103 octane only.
What's the compression ratio on your scooter? What octane do you use? How long? Any octane-related problems?
Thanks.
George
It has been said that you run the lowest octane that your bike can tolerate without pinging (detonation). It is possible that the older aircooled desmodues had a low enough compression ratio that you could use 87 octane. Most modern desmo engines including the the aircooled ones on the other hand have compression ratios greater than 10:1 that it would seem to me necessary to run higher than 87 octane and possibly 92 octane or better. I think 103 is not reasonable because it would be inconvenient to try to get that kind of gas at the pump short of using octane boosters on top of premium.
I use premium gas on mine and my compression ratios are: 10:1, 11.5:1 and 12:1?). My ST4S (with 11.5:1) gets anywhere from 43 to 51 MPG.
I run 93 Octane on mine. Not sure if bike motors have knock sensors that can retard timing (I suspect not, at least not my bike), so I wouldn't run an octane lower than recommended unless I was in the middle of nowhere and had no choice - in which case I would probably try and get to the closest pump that sells the 93 and start adding it in. If I can, I may even find some race fuel and mix it in to bring the Octane levels higher. Higher octane gas prevents pinging/detonation which can damage your engine. If the motor doesn't need it, it really doesn't do anything. However, if the motor is designed for it, then running something with a lower octane (especially if there is no knock-sensor to control timing) will risk additonal wear/damage to the motor.
Like CDC my ST4s uses 93. I've never had an issue with performance (he we go..."that's what she said".), but I think consistency is key also (he we go again..."that's what she said".). If you use different fuels your valves with react if the fuel is not up to standard. Valves need all the fuel to be spent when it ignites otherwise a carbon residue is left behind. Over time it builds up and you have problems. Clean fuel (fuel filter helps) will prolong the life of your engine better than anything as related to valves. Shell is the best for that. You can also buy racing fuel at MSR behind the Texaco going up towards the track. Didn't see the cost last weekend but worth the trip to get some...hint hint hint ...Sunday riders! I won't threadjack here.
I've run 87 in my air-cooled motors occasionally without issue, but they have only around a 10.5:1 CR. My manual for the HM states 91 octane, so my normal fill is 91-93.
Nothing but premium in my bikes ;D
Yeah I only put premium in my bike as well. Heat can factor in on detonation... one of the reasons you need to run higher octane in turbo engines... and intercool them if possible to keep the temps down for more power and less chance of detonation. I'd prefer the peace of mind with premium on my nice bike, regardless if it will run on less.
QuoteShell is the best for that
I dunno. The only time I strayed from my strict Chevron/Texaco(Chevron additives), and used Shell, my bike ran like bunk for a week. I'm kind of a snob on gasoline.. maybe we all have preferences, but I won't put that stuff in my bike... even though I have a Shell business gas card that could pay it for free. My Jeep can have it, not my bike. :P
Quote from: JesterDFW on October 26, 2008, 05:38:58 PM
The only time I strayed from my strict Chevron/Texaco(Chevron additives), and used Shell, my bike ran like bunk for a week. I'm kind of a snob on gasoline.. maybe we all have preferences, but I won't put that stuff in my bike
Hmmm...now you have me wondering. I've never had a bunky motor with the fuel. But I might put some Tiger juice in the ST next time. Today for the first time in my short time riding this bike I hit the power band trying hard to keep up with CDC and it caught me off guard when the front wheel came up a little. I was running Shell Premium and sounded like a freaking race engine. But, I'll try something different and see the difference.
Quote from: RED on October 26, 2008, 06:36:10 PM
Hmmm...now you have me wondering. I've never had a bunky motor with the fuel. But I might put some Tiger juice in the ST next time. Today for the first time in my short time riding this bike I hit the power band trying hard to keep up with CDC and it caught me off guard when the front wheel came up a little. I was running Shell Premium and sounded like a freaking race engine. But, I'll try something different and see the difference.
Yeah, when I run that 93 octane stuff, both the front AND the rear wheels come off the ground.... [moto]
Quote from: GeorgeInDallas on October 26, 2008, 06:56:13 PM
Yeah, when I run that 93 octane stuff, both the front AND the rear wheels come off the ground.... [moto]
George, you must be talking about flying a helicopter.
Chevron was one of the first to have their gasoline rated top tier. BMW and Honda tested their cars on it exclusively so the rumor went. Shell at least in their premium blend is also now top tier so the rumor goes.
I hope this does not turn out to be an oil war.
Quote from: RED on October 26, 2008, 06:36:10 PM
Hmmm...now you have me wondering. I've never had a bunky motor with the fuel. But I might put some Tiger juice in the ST next time. Today for the first time in my short time riding this bike I hit the power band trying hard to keep up with CDC and it caught me off guard when the front wheel came up a little. I was running Shell Premium and sounded like a freaking race engine. But, I'll try something different and see the difference.
And for the record, I was just trying to keep Tommy from being bored. Apparently, I was not successful as he kept on passing me while we were in the same lane and on the outside of a left hand sweeper while I was doing 80MPH and he comes around at a 100MPH. Spooked the hell out of me. He tried to buy me lunch after that but I told him I was still mad cause he showed me up! ;D
cdc
I get better gas milage when I use 87, so 87 is all I use.
I don't worry about fuel economy when I ride my Duc, if I did I'd buy a scooter. I use 93 on all 4 of mine.
Quote from: pipeliner1978 on October 27, 2008, 08:29:44 AM
I don't worry about fuel economy when I ride my Duc, if I did I'd buy a scooter. I use 93 on all 4 of mine.
I would have thought that fuel economy was a good sign of the fuel being burnt correctly.
I use 95 RON (90 (RON+MON)/2) as this is what Ducati recommend. One thing I noticed at the weekend is how much smoother she ran on the fuel in the Hill Country, I do not think it had the ethanol in it.
I found an interesting article here.
http://www.desmoducati.org/octane.html (http://www.desmoducati.org/octane.html)
My bike does not require gasoline. It runs for the pure pleasure of making me happy, and in return, I love it more than my family.
QuoteChevron was one of the first to have their gasoline rated top tier. BMW and Honda tested their cars on it exclusively so the rumor went. Shell at least in their premium blend is also now top tier so the rumor goes
Yeah, I also know some of the American manufacturers used to have Chevron trucked in for testing on their cars as well. Good gas. That's primarily why I started preferring Chevron over other gasolines. If the car manufacturers go out of their way to test on a specific gasoline, then I'm using that gasoline.
I used to have a turbo eclipse with a ton of mod work. ( bigger turbo, front intercooler, air/fuel comp, larger radiator, ceramic clutch, suspension work, no-cat 3" racing exhaust from downpipe to back, etc etc etc ). I never trusted anything but Chevron in that car. I used to run 18-23psi boost and punished that thing for about 75k miles before I put it into a wall and totalled it. She ran like a charm with zero engine problems. I blame the gas, and frequent oil changes! =P Maybe good tuning was also a factor LOL!.... but anyway, I got hooked on Chevron then, and haven't strayed off it it for any vehicle I consider performance oriented since. If I have no choice I'll use something else, but you get the picture.
Quote from: pipeliner1978 on October 27, 2008, 08:29:44 AM
I don't worry about fuel economy when I ride my Duc, if I did I'd buy a scooter. I use 93 on all 4 of mine.
I remember our 1098's not liking 87 octane in Arkansas [bang]
I like Chevron too. I believe they use Techron in all their gas... I think. I use Techron fuel additive/fuel injection cleaner from Pep Boys in all my cars/trucks before any long road trip. Even take some with me when we stop to top up. At the moment I am running a s#@t load of it through my ZRX1200. It's one of the few carbed bikes I have running and with the gas being so sh#tty in town I always try and start it once a week (if I haven't ridden it) in the garage and warm it up to run some fresh gas through the carbs/jets/etc. to prevent the dreaded sludged up carb death. I have to do that even though I use an extra dose of Sta-bil in the fuel.
Well, I screwed up and missed 2-3 weeks. Would think about it while away from the house and then would forget when I got home. Last weekend I started it up and yep, you guessed it stumpled on 2 to 3 cylinders and would not idle at all. That's called being a dumba## for those that don't know. :P Since I had nothing to lose I dumped several ounces of Techron in a half full tank of gas, shook the tank to mix it in and have been religiously starting it at least twice a day and running it up to operating temp and blipping the throttle. You know what? It now runs just fine! That heavy dose of Techron did the trick! [clap] Saved me a major open heart surgery carb operation and boy, do I hate those! Thank God for fuel injected bikes. [thumbsup] Yet another believer in Techron. [moto] [beer]
Quote from: JesterDFW on October 27, 2008, 12:06:01 PM
Yeah, I also know some of the American manufacturers used to have Chevron trucked in for testing on their cars as well. Good gas. That's primarily why I started preferring Chevron over other gasolines. If the car manufacturers go out of their way to test on a specific gasoline, then I'm using that gasoline.
I used to have a turbo eclipse with a ton of mod work. ( bigger turbo, front intercooler, air/fuel comp, larger radiator, ceramic clutch, suspension work, no-cat 3" racing exhaust from downpipe to back, etc etc etc ).
No CAT! Hmm... does the EPA know about this? ;D
cdc
QuoteNo CAT! Hmm... does the EPA know about this?
Still passed inspection at Jiffy-Lube :P
Quote from: JesterDFW on October 27, 2008, 05:10:54 PM
Still passed inspection at Jiffy-Lube :P
Thank God for Jiffy Lube! [thumbsup] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
cdc
Quote from: andym on October 27, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
I would have thought that fuel economy was a good sign of the fuel being burnt correctly.
Exactly. My reason for asking. I'm not averse to paying for premium, but my gas mileage on my recent run to Barber Museum (Birmingham, AL) and back netted only 38 mpg. Seems a lot of folks are doing much better, so I'm trying to pin down how/why they get better gas mileage. Octane? Tuning? Dragging my feet? Flat tires? It's all so complicated. [moto]
QuoteSeems a lot of folks are doing much better, so I'm trying to pin down how/why they get better gas mileage. Octane? Tuning? Dragging my feet? Flat tires?
Well, and aerodynamics. Some of us are tall, some short, some in between, some heavy... you get the picture. Just our difference in body sizes among the group can change your gas mileage a good bit. You may be pulling around more or less weight than another guy, or you may be catching more wind at higher speeds that kills your gas mileage. The bikes tuning is only part of it. [thumbsup]
I use regular gas in both the monster and the 748 with absolutely no issues, generally only put in shell or chevron (I use shell only in my car, but I'm not usually distance limited to some extent on getting fuel for the car when I'm down to empty).
I'll pour a bit of seafoam in each bike from time to time and do a tank of premium from time to time for the extra additives, but really, it's not a habitual thing.
I got 49-51mpg on the 748 on the trip up to the hill country this weekend and 44-46mpg on the trip back (I was wearing about a 30 lb backpack on the way back down, plus a freakin strong crosswind the whole time), with extended periods in the 80-110mph range...
i can tell you from FHE that ducatis do not like diesel, just FYI.
From an inferior motorcycle forum. ;D
The last post it the most interesting.
http://bmwk1200s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1647 (http://bmwk1200s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1647)
Quote from: JesterDFW on October 27, 2008, 10:22:30 PM
Well, and aerodynamics. Some of us are tall, some short, some in between, some heavy... you get the picture. Just our difference in body sizes among the group can change your gas mileage a good bit. You may be pulling around more or less weight than another guy, or you may be catching more wind at higher speeds that kills your gas mileage. The bikes tuning is only part of it. [thumbsup]
a-HA!!! I think you may be on to something - I'm 6'0", so if I could cut my head off, I could reduce the wind drag! Hmmmm. [cheeky] Many would say that would be an improvement in many ways.
I know this is an old post, but perhaps this will help - My new Monster 796 refers to minimum 95 octane in the manual. I was obvioiusly confused - then on WIKI I noted a couple interesting factoids - Europe uses RON and US uses AKI as a standard of Octane measurement. For Italy it says that - "Italy: 95 RON is the only compulsory gasoline offered (verde, "green")"
Accordingly Octane in US "United States: in the US octane rating is displayed in AKI. In the Rocky Mountain (high elevation) states, 85 AKI (90 RON) is the minimum octane, and 91 AKI (95 RON) is the maximum octane available in fuel[citation needed]. The reason for this is that in higher-elevation areas, a typical naturally aspirated engine draws in less air mass per cycle because of the reduced density of the atmosphere. This directly translates to less fuel and reduced absolute compression in the cylinder, therefore deterring knock. It is safe to fill a carbureted car that normally takes 87 AKI fuel at sea level with 85 AKI fuel in the mountains, but at sea level the fuel may cause damage to the engine. A disadvantage to this strategy is that most turbocharged vehicles are unable to produce full power, even when using the "premium" 91 AKI fuel. In some east coast states, up to 94 AKI (98 RON) is available.[21] In Colorado as well as parts of the Midwest (primarily Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois and Missouri) ethanol-based E-85 fuel with 105 AKI is available.[22] Often, filling stations near US racing tracks will offer higher octane levels such as 100 AKI[citation needed]. California fuel stations will offer 87, 89, and 91 AKI (91, 93 and 95 RON) octane fuels, and at some stations, 100 AKI or higher octane, sold as racing fuel"
I guess I'll run 93 (AKI )here in the US, which is above the requirement now, albeit the 89 wouldn't be far off.
Hope this helps and isn't a repeat of previous information.