Winter is decending upon us. I'm due for an oil change.
If I'm not going to be riding over the winter, am I better off leaving the oil (3k miles old) alone and doing it at the beginning of the riding season?
Change prior to storing it. Any time an engine is going to sit, one of the best things you can do is change the oil. Combustion generates small amounts of acid and other nasty stuff that collect in your oil. It's not big deal during normal use, but left to sit it can do bad things.
Ok, would you change again in Spring after it sitting, or would it be fine?
It will be fine but you shouldn't let it sit again for too long in that same oil.
Don't forget to fog the cylinders and treat the fuel.
Quote from: Munch on November 08, 2008, 10:32:34 PM
Ok, would you change again in Spring after it sitting, or would it be fine?
I think you are going to get some conflicting replies to this, but my personal opinion is that it's a waste of good oil to change it in the fall and again in the spring. Furthermore...I'm not an engine builder but I've messed with a lot of poorly maintained engines and the clutch-pushrod-zombies may come after me for saying this, but I've never seen any damage due to supposedly acidic old oil not being changed prior to winter storage. I would really like to hear if any engine builders have found internal corrosion due to acidic oil? It gives us a warm and IZ_ feeling to change oil in the fall and that's always good so I'm not saying don't change it, just saying it doesn't do anything for your motor. I stand ready to be corrected if anyone can provide personal experience to the contrary.
I always change the oil, treat the fuel, etc. prior to storage but I don't change it in the spring prior to a first ride. Any condensation that accumulates in the oil during storage will burn right off. The oil is still new, it has just been sitting in your motorcycle rather than on the shelf.
Just my $.02.
Can we just drain the oil completely? (and leave it like that)
Alternatively you can just fill it up with crappy cheap dino oil...
In theory the oil can be acidic with miles, particularly if the person does a lot of short trips, so the oil change advice is cautious preventative medicine. The practice also comes from history when neither oil or engines were as good as today.
My advice is if there is mileage on the oil, why not change it befores storing? Can't hurt. The same oil will stay in for spring. If you want to be anal, test the PH of your oil.
Does oil have a shelf life? I bought 4L of Motul 300V last November and used 3L and a bit in an oil change. I had about 1L left over in the 4L can. I just bought another 4L can and did another oil change yesterday. I've got another L left over from that change. Is the 1 year old stuff the same as the new stuff? I'm figuring if it's full synthetic, so probably more or less inert with nothing to interact with in the plastic can except air. The oxidation effect has to minimal b/c it's hydrophobic, right?
I think we're missing George.
Quote from: Jethro on November 09, 2008, 10:31:17 AM
I think we're missing George.
Wonder where he is? I haven't seen him on the old board either. I'll try a PM to his business website and see if I can roust him.
Is there any reason not to change it both before and after? I don't know anything about oil but when I'm storing a bike, I put in new dino oil for the storage. Then I change it out with synthetic when I "un-store" it. (Hey look! I made a new verb). It's cheap insurance. I change out the brake fluid too when I "un-store." Again, really easy to do and cheap insurance.
Quote from: Spidey on November 09, 2008, 11:35:36 AM
Is there any reason not to change it both before and after? I don't know anything about oil but when I'm storing a bike, I put in new dino oil for the storage. Then I change it out with synthetic when I "un-store" it. (Hey look! I made a new verb). It's cheap insurance. I change out the brake fluid too when I "un-store." Again, really easy to do and cheap insurance.
The only reason not to is it's a total waste of time and money IMO.
Very little moisture will be absorbed into oil if the engine is not run.
The theory is to remove the combustion acids to avoid plain and ball bearing damage.
i never change the oil before storage ......stabil in gas full tank, fog cylinders/engine, remove battery overfill, tires by 10psi, plug cans with rags , cover breather
then change oil and filter in spring before start up
been doing this 30+ years no problem so far
filters and oil are to expensive to just waste ...imo
Okay so no gaurantees but if the link works you can see the fretting on this inner main bearing.
This according to my bearing suppliers is due to a chemical reaction (such as old motor oil) etching the metal. In the case of this main bearing it weakened the surface and the bearing started to fret (erode). the pitted surface you see was the lower half of the bearing where oil would gather.
http://clubhousemotorsports.com/images/IMG_1237.JPG (http://clubhousemotorsports.com/images/IMG_1237.JPG)
was this due to old oil? The other side was fine but the owner stated that the bike sat for more than a year with old oil. when I started looking into causes of the damage most literature pointed to a chemical issue.
I change mine in the fall and run the bike in the spring FYI
Quote from: howie on November 09, 2008, 07:39:04 AM
The practice also comes from history when neither oil or engines were as good as today.
And that brings us to a discussion of what is "good" oil, and what oil you are running in your bike. There have been lots of "advancements" in oil technology, some good, some bad FOR MOTORCYCLES. EAch new specification for automobile oil has less and less of the "good stuff" i.e. the zinc, phosphate anti-corrosion and anti-sludging additives, because of tightening emission regulations and the effect of the delicate sensors autos require to make engines run. There is a difference between the Mobil1 "synth" you can buy at Wally World for $4.99/qt and the Mobil14t Synth for Motorcycles that costs ~ $50/gal and it's the amount and quality of the additives contained in the oil. MC's don't have the same emissions requirements as cars, so oil companies can still put the same amount in MC oil as the "good old days."
This has particular bearing on winterizing. If you're running a car oil, with less anti-corrosion, anti-acid etc. additives in it in the first place, and leaving oil that's had those additives break down over the course of the summer riding, it's a double whammy.
And even with a quality MC oil, there's no real reasons to leave it in. You have to change it anyway, why not let it sit with clean oil and a full, new compliment of additives?
OTOH, I've never heard of any engine breaking down due to oil related failure in my life. And I have a lot of vehicles and store them a lot. And usually do nothing, other than put in a bit of Stabil, IF I remember.
Quote
My advice is if there is mileage on the oil, why not change it befores storing? Can't hurt. The same oil will stay in for spring.
+1
I'm in the change it and store it camp. No need to change GOOD oil in the spring. Any moisture accumulated will burn off on the first ride.
Quote from: dlearl476 on November 09, 2008, 11:26:25 PM
I'm in the change it and store it camp. No need to change GOOD oil in the spring. Any moisture accumulated will burn off on the first ride.
Me too. Flushing out the hydraulic fluids once a year is also good practice. Brake fluid absorbs water as it ages and this can cause corrosion.
Scott