Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => General Monster Forum => Topic started by: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 02:55:38 PM

Title: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 02:55:38 PM
I guess my lotus couldnt handle the pressure from the new toy and self-destructed...  ExigeS failed the jealousy test. So Monster is my new DD ???
Last Tuesday early morning asked my brother to move the car round the corner (50ft) and left to ride my 696. Got home afternoon and in lil while my brother shows up with a tow truck. So i go outside to take a look. u know the rest of the story...   he hit a bump on BQE driving in left lane, bounced into the divider, semi, divider again, and tractor-trailer again. Walked away with no scratch. Monster inherited a temporary Exige cover...

(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1329.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1332.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1339.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1341.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1352.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1355.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1357.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1358.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1362.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1363.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1368.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1370.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1375.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1383.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1386.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1390.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1391.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1397.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1404.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1407.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1413.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1428.jpg)
(http://www.elisetalk.com/gallery/files//10790-img_1431.jpg)
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: ducpainter on November 19, 2008, 02:58:53 PM
Ouch....

that left some marks.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: mz3onturn7 on November 19, 2008, 03:03:05 PM
It hurts just to look at those pictures... if it was anyone but your brother you would have to kill them... slowly.  Too bad, awesome car.  Good luck with the insurance co.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: hunduc on November 19, 2008, 03:06:19 PM
that sucks.

but the main point is that your bro is ok...
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: superjohn on November 19, 2008, 03:14:40 PM
Owwwww........just how fast was he going when he went over the bump?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: TAftonomos on November 19, 2008, 03:15:27 PM
Glad everyone is ok.

Car = total.  Those things are built so light, they take a decent hit and are twisted/fubar'd.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: OverCaffeinated on November 19, 2008, 03:16:02 PM
So have you filed a missing person report for your brother, so the police are less likely to suspect you.  ;)
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 19, 2008, 03:18:11 PM
Man that sux!

When is your brother's funeral?


j/k


Is the insurance picking up the damage?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 03:19:41 PM
LOL, i will keep him alive. He was the one convinced me to buy this thing anyway...
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: duclvr on November 19, 2008, 03:20:44 PM
That was painful to look at.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 19, 2008, 03:22:23 PM
Quote from: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 03:19:41 PM
LOL, i will keep him alive. He was the one convinced me to buy this thing anyway...

Kinda off topic, I was reading in this week's Navy Times and they had an article about Yak Pilots. You belong to that group?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Autostrada Pilot on November 19, 2008, 03:23:26 PM
Oh man, I thought you meant Lotus the company.

Sorry about the car.  They are phenomenal cars. I drove one (a regular Elise) just a few months ago around some curvy roads here in northern Utah (and a parade lap at Miller Motorsports Park).  I love them dearly, now if only they would hold 2 sets of golf clubs, I'd be sold.

Sorry for the loss of your car, and glad your bro is OK.  I hope you get to pick another new baby to replace it as I'm quite sure it's totalled.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: MadDuck on November 19, 2008, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 03:19:41 PM
LOL, i will keep him alive. He was the one convinced me to buy this thing anyway...

He deserves some sort of "hit" don't you think?  [laugh]  Lightweight build, or not, that was no low speed crash. I suspect he was hooked up pretty good.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: ducpainter on November 19, 2008, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 03:19:41 PM
LOL, i will keep him alive. He was the one convinced me to buy this thing anyway...
If it was one of my bros I'd be slapping him... ;D
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: MaxPower on November 19, 2008, 03:48:24 PM
That should buff right out.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: ducpainter on November 19, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: MaxPower on November 19, 2008, 03:48:24 PM
That should buff right out.
Dooooood... [laugh]
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: factorPlayer on November 19, 2008, 04:38:56 PM
here's what's left of the one driven by the guy I bought my leathers from

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/mm2556/04_26_07_Pin_In_006.jpg)
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: zedsaid on November 19, 2008, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: factorPlayer on November 19, 2008, 04:38:56 PM
here's what's left of the one driven by the guy I bought my leathers from

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/mm2556/04_26_07_Pin_In_006.jpg)

Did a steam-roller back over the front end?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: wbeck257 on November 19, 2008, 05:03:03 PM
Was your Brother okay after the crash?
Is your Brother okay now?

Because he shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: He Man on November 19, 2008, 05:39:37 PM
Which bump did you get caught up on the BQE? that whole highway is a make the beast with two backsing nightmare to ride. I avoid it at all cost.

Maybe its just me, but that last lotus without the top looks a lot better than most cars out there after they crashed.

How is your brother?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: yak52pilot on November 19, 2008, 05:45:20 PM
Quote from: He Man on November 19, 2008, 05:39:37 PM
Which bump did you get caught up on the BQE? that whole highway is a make the beast with two backsing nightmare to ride. I avoid it at all cost.

Maybe its just me, but that last lotus without the top looks a lot better than most cars out there after they crashed.

How is your brother?

My brother is better than ever. Walked away with no scratch.
This picture ^^^^ is no fun. Will not buff out.
These cars are difficult to control. It takes numerous track days to really know this car. No power assisted features or traction makes it a bit more than a go-kart with a bodykit. And this is the reason i loved it.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: DucHead on November 19, 2008, 05:52:59 PM
Remember...your parents can always make you another brother.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Mad Duc on November 19, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
Hey Yak52pilot - I'm Lotus Fury from LT.

Wow, I didn't see that on Lotustalk. That sucks. At least you have the 696.  

The Elise/Exige does very well in crashes as the structure is designed extremely well. Lotus builds the crash structures for other firms including Aston Martin. Lotus = very smart engineers.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: LA on November 19, 2008, 07:06:17 PM
That is some of the most painful photography I have ever seen. :'( :'(

LA
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Howie on November 19, 2008, 07:07:11 PM
WOW!  Hard to believe your brother survived both the crash and you.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: DrDesmo on November 19, 2008, 07:20:16 PM
Quote from: pompetta on November 19, 2008, 05:52:59 PM
Remember...your parents can always make you another brother.

[laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: somegirl on November 19, 2008, 07:22:56 PM
Ouch, poor car! :(  Glad your brother made it ok. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: ROBsS4R on November 19, 2008, 07:31:26 PM

A 05 lotus is on my short list of cars that I was thinking of buying early next year.

But after seeing that perhaps not =(

Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on November 19, 2008, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: ROBsS4R on November 19, 2008, 07:31:26 PM
A 05 lotus is on my short list of cars that I was thinking of buying early next year.

But after seeing that perhaps not =(



Why not now? Clearly, they're safe-what more do you want in a car you'll probably drive like a 'tard?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: ROBsS4R on November 19, 2008, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: somebastid on November 19, 2008, 07:42:42 PM
Why not now? Clearly, they're safe-what more do you want in a car you'll probably drive like a 'tard?

My understanding is the car lost control because it hit a bump and since its basically a track car it bottomed out and bounced all over the place.

My other choice of cars might have handled that bump a bit better  ;D
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: swampduc on November 19, 2008, 08:37:11 PM
Sorry about the car. Brothers are easily replaceable.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: He Man on November 19, 2008, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: ROBsS4R on November 19, 2008, 07:49:09 PM
My understanding is the car lost control because it hit a bump and since its basically a track car it bottomed out and bounced all over the place.

My other choice of cars might have handled that bump a bit better  ;D

To my knowledge those lotus cars are literally designed for the track. and just so happen to be street legal.

by the wya BQE= Brooklyn Queens Expressway in NYC. aka "bumps" are death traps. That car is pretty low too. I wouldnt be suprised if it was that belly pan that hit the bump and threw the car of course.

But +1 to someguy, if you look at where the driver sits, would you rather be in that car or in a honda 5 star that just got the whole side and front crushed in?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: The Bacon Junkie on November 20, 2008, 12:26:14 AM
  I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.   :-X

That just makes me sad.    :'(
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Big Troubled Bear on November 20, 2008, 01:20:39 AM
Scary :o
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Rambler1982 on November 20, 2008, 05:02:06 AM
Wow, those pics are BAD. Glad your bro is ok.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: yak52pilot on November 20, 2008, 07:51:11 AM
Quote from: Mad Duc on November 19, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
Hey Yak52pilot - I'm Lotus Fury from LT.

Wow, I didn't see that on Lotustalk. That sucks. At least you have the 696.  

The Elise/Exige does very well in crashes as the structure is designed extremely well. Lotus builds the crash structures for other firms including Aston Martin. Lotus = very smart engineers.

i just posted it yesterday. or search for it under my name
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: r_ciao on November 20, 2008, 10:34:07 AM
Ouch!  Hope your bro is o.k.  Mine wouldn't be if he did that to my ride.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: gh0stie on November 20, 2008, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: factorPlayer on November 19, 2008, 04:38:56 PM
here's what's left of the one driven by the guy I bought my leathers from

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/mm2556/04_26_07_Pin_In_006.jpg)


Hey is that the Guy from Austin that died in that crash? Jack Hannah or something like that?

I remember seeing a picture of him standing next to a Ducati on one of the Lotus forums
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: factorPlayer on November 20, 2008, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: gh0stie on November 20, 2008, 01:36:52 PM

Hey is that the Guy from Austin that died in that crash? Jack Hannah or something like that?

I remember seeing a picture of him standing next to a Ducati on one of the Lotus forums

Jack Griffith.  Yeah he had an awesome 748 that was completely (I mean, completely) kitted out with 858 cams, carbon everything (wheels, tank, etc), pipes, rearsets, you name it.  And didn't look tacky.  Someone from Cali bought from his estate for a steal. 
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: zvezdah1 on November 21, 2008, 12:53:40 PM
OUCH,
yeppers looks like a total loss, hitting a curb tends to trash the subframe and extruded chassis.

Great cars, I had an 05 and 06 Elise.

Chris
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: CDawg on November 21, 2008, 01:17:27 PM
Sorry to hear about your car.  BTW, how do you see out the back?  Is it just the side view mirrors or is there a camera?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: zvezdah1 on November 21, 2008, 01:25:53 PM
On the exige, the rear deck lid is louvered, but rear vision not so hot even worse on series 1 exige. You absolutely have to use your sideview mirrors on elise/exige and esprit.

Chris
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: yak52pilot on November 21, 2008, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: zvezdah1 on November 21, 2008, 01:25:53 PM
On the exige, the rear deck lid is louvered, but rear vision not so hot even worse on series 1 exige. You absolutely have to use your sideview mirrors on elise/exige and esprit.

Chris

The first thing i did when i got my exige was taking off the rear view mirror. You cant see sh1t anyway. The only thing visible is a supercharger. But with lotus, there was never a need to look back...
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: He Man on November 21, 2008, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: yak52pilot on November 21, 2008, 05:01:51 PM
The first thing i did when i got my exige was taking off the rear view mirror. You cant see sh1t anyway. The only thing visible is a supercharger. But with lotus, there was never a need to look back...

Parallel parking? lol
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: duc996 on November 21, 2008, 06:02:21 PM
I'm sure he didn't say how fast he was going. [coffee]
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 21, 2008, 06:55:02 PM
It is a good time to upgrade to a Tesla. 

I drove my friend's Tesla (his was delivered last Friday -- number 40) and he threw me the keys.  Took it for a spin on Foothill Express and got disconnected from reality.  We accelerated from 0 to 60 in about four seconds and the only sound was a high-pitched whirl.  And, the transmission is one gear so the acceleration was continuous and seamless, which further removes reality.  Every sight, sound and sensation you knew about fast cars is destroyed.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 21, 2008, 06:56:38 PM
Is there any engine braking with the Tesla electric motors?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Duck-Stew on November 21, 2008, 07:04:08 PM
Sorry about your ride bro...

Good thing your brother's OK...  He'd be much harder to replace (I suspect, but have never met the man...).  [cheeky] [laugh] [drink]
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: superjohn on November 21, 2008, 07:34:59 PM
Quote from: powerband on November 21, 2008, 06:55:02 PM
It is a good time to upgrade to a Tesla. 

I drove my friend's Tesla (his was delivered last Friday -- number 40) and he threw me the keys.  Took it for a spin on Foothill Express and got disconnected from reality.  We accelerated from 0 to 60 in about four seconds and the only sound was a high-pitched whirl.  And, the transmission is one gear so the acceleration was continuous and seamless, which further removes reality.  Every sight, sound and sensation you knew about fast cars is destroyed.

As much as I'd like to, I just don't like the Tesla. Sure it's fast, but you can only do, what, 150 spirited miles? And if you run out of juice before you get home, you're screwed. At least with a hybrid you can stop for gas. I think they need to focus less on maximum range and work on faster recharges.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on November 21, 2008, 08:04:12 PM
Quote from: He Man on November 21, 2008, 05:41:55 PM
Parallel parking? lol

;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QchftiD1g_M&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QchftiD1g_M&feature=related)
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 21, 2008, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 21, 2008, 06:56:38 PM
Is there any engine braking with the Tesla electric motors?

Yes!  It's a very dominant trait on the Tesla.  There were several times when I did not need to touch the brakes at all when coming to a stop; if timed right, the brake is not needed.  The engine braking is even greater than that on a typical motorcycle. 
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 21, 2008, 09:24:42 PM
It figures there would be. I don't imaging the motor disengages when you lift....
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 21, 2008, 09:25:17 PM
Quote from: superjohn on November 21, 2008, 07:34:59 PM
As much as I'd like to, I just don't like the Tesla. Sure it's fast, but you can only do, what, 150 spirited miles? And if you run out of juice before you get home, you're screwed. At least with a hybrid you can stop for gas. I think they need to focus less on maximum range and work on faster recharges.

Yes, I hear you and I agree with the need for more range and a faster recharge with a portable charger.  But Tesla Motors represents something I really support.  At this time, its concept is beyond mere function.  Although they still have lots of bugs to work out, both in business plan and product, and their customer service needs to climb out of the sh*tter, I really hope they survive.  
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: damianS4RS on November 22, 2008, 11:16:02 AM
That hurts my balls.

I hope your brother can't ride a motorcycle..
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: Got Duc on November 22, 2008, 05:39:21 PM
Brother ok =  [thumbsup]

Sad about the car. That is my favorite four wheeled vehicle.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: sfarchie on November 22, 2008, 06:21:21 PM
Sorry! First you left your disc lock on your 696, then this. At least no one got hurt on both instances. Your positive attitude will take you far.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: yak52pilot on November 23, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
Quote from: sfarchie on November 22, 2008, 06:21:21 PM
Sorry! First you left your disc lock on your 696, then this. At least no one got hurt on both instances. Your positive attitude will take you far.

My learning curve is not too smooth...   Funny thing - Lotus survived so many track days with no single scratch and no major off-track excursions. But died on some stupid traffic filled highway. But its in a better place now.
Talking tesla... I just cant get over the sound thing. In my mind smth fast MUST make noise. Lots of it. And it should have manually shifted gears.  But i wish em good luck. Tesla is in a bit of trouble now.
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 23, 2008, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: yak52pilot on November 23, 2008, 12:03:50 PM

Talking tesla... I just cant get over the sound thing. In my mind smth fast MUST make noise. Lots of it. And it should have manually shifted gears.  But i wish em good luck. Tesla is in a bit of trouble now.

Honestly, it's the way I felt, too:  The sensory conditioning of speed dictates a mandatory roar with internal combustion and exhaust, and it must bang upward in gears.  The Tesla came along and shattered this sensory conditioning.  To be fair, it is an entirely different experience.  Being propelled forward at potentially deadly speed and hearing only your heartbeat is akin to playing a very intense video game, into the center of which you are placed.  Just different.

Of course, if I had $100K (plus tax and fees), I'd buy a different car... a ZR1, a 4S, or even the new Nissan GTR.   :) 


Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 23, 2008, 06:25:24 PM
Quote from: powerband on November 23, 2008, 04:46:09 PM
Of course, if I had $100K (plus tax and fees), I'd buy a different car... a ZR1, a 4S, or even the new Nissan GTR.   :) 




Try and find one....
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: DrDesmo on November 23, 2008, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 23, 2008, 06:25:24 PM
Try and find one....

Shockingly, I've seen a couple at dealers for just about MSRP, OTD ... Not that i've been looking for a gunmetal grey premium one or anything ................

;D

Adam
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 23, 2008, 06:40:43 PM
Nothing in my area, believe me, I looked...
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 24, 2008, 05:11:38 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 23, 2008, 06:25:24 PM
Try and find one....

You will be able to bring a GTR home much sooner than you would a Tesla, that's for sure.  They just delivered Tesla number 40-something; they have sold over a thousand.  And there is a long wait list. 
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 05:24:37 PM
True, but it will likely be next year before you can realistically get one...
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 24, 2008, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 05:24:37 PM
True, but it will likely be next year before you can realistically get one...

Not surprising.  The GTR looks like a giant syringe full of testosterone.   
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 07:14:12 PM
Just read a report where a car mag dyno'd it. They said "conservatively" the thing is really making over 500hp and 530 lb-ft at the crank...
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: DrDesmo on November 24, 2008, 07:39:17 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 23, 2008, 06:40:43 PM
Nothing in my area, believe me, I looked...

80 Miles from you ... 80 grand (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nissan-GT-R-PREMIUM-GTR-2009-nissan-GT-R-premium-BEST-DEAL-ON-THE-MARKET_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1308QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270306110804QQitemZ270306110804QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks)

[evil]

</threadjack>
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 07:42:57 PM
Ehhh, I was looking for it in black....
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: DrDesmo on November 24, 2008, 08:31:48 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 07:42:57 PM
Ehhh, I was looking for it in black....

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31R22VYFH7L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

;D

Adam
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: powerband on November 24, 2008, 08:37:50 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 07:42:57 PM
Ehhh, I was looking for it in black....

Are/were you in the market for a black GTR?
Title: Re: Lotus kicked the bucket.
Post by: NAKID on November 24, 2008, 08:38:42 PM
Well shit, in that case....



























[laugh]

Quote from: powerband on November 24, 2008, 08:37:50 PM
Are/were you in the market for a black GTR?

Was, but it will have to wait a bit now...