I'm going to be in Dectur, a suburb of Ft. Worth on Wed. Driving over to the metroplex for Thanksgiving. I'm taking my bike in for Warranty work. I was planning on just driving in to Dallas and going to AMS Ducati, as I read good things about them. But I might have some extra's thrown on and they seem expensive.
So does anyone have an opinion on the Ft. Worth Dealership? Also what is good price for the full Termi Kit, Labor and all? I was expecting $22 - $2600. AMS says $3000.00. AMS also says $300.00 for 600 mile service, which I was just planning on doing myself. Seems a little overpriced.
Quote from: Clickjack on November 20, 2008, 11:25:39 AM
So does anyone have an opinion on the Ft. Worth Dealership?
Eurosport Cycle on 121 and Riverside is the closest one to Decatur. You would take 287 south from Decatur to 35W (going south) to the 121 exit and go east. They are about one mile on the right.
What type of warranty work?
Quote from: caffeinejunkee on November 20, 2008, 11:29:33 AM
What type of warranty work?
Well, I sprung an oil leak. Looks like a seal on the fluid reservoir on the back shock. But I'm not a mechanic.
Does this dealership do good work? I've gotten the impression from the DMF forums that there isn't a lot of consistency between dealership's service departments.
I've had work done in both places, and I've been treated well by both with no complaints. [thumbsup]
I can't speak for everyone here, though.
I live S of Ft Worth and only go to the AMS in Alvarado. My full 695 Termis were about $1900 with labor, but i bought my bike there and carbon, jacket, ... so maybe I get preferred service. Same ownership as Dallas AMS, but full shop with Dyno in Alvarado. My 600 mile was $100 but I changed oil and filter myself (bought at AMS).
Others have much more experience than me, so keep that in mind. Good luck and safe riding [moto]
What bike and how long are you staying?
cdc
2007 S4R T. I will be in town until Fri or Sat evening. If necessary I will leave the bike tell I return for Christmas.
I use AMS-D. Mostly because I know that Jeff is one of the top techs in the country and his staff knows me all too well.
Yeah, they charge a bit more for labor than the others, but I know that they'll make sure my bike is safe and street worthy.
If it is just a matter of replacing a rear shock under warranty and a Termi kit I'd go to Eurosport because it may be closer to you and less expensive. But, I'd check the price of the Termi kit from them. I suspect that your shock will need to be ordered as will your Termi kit and that is what may take awhile.
Having said that, I suspect that AMS might have quicker access to those parts and might be able to get you in and out of the door quicker. Ask about turn around time at both places, if that is important to you.
Remeber the holidays, both Thanksgiving and Christmas affect work schedules and availability & delivery of parts.
cdc
Quote from: cdc on November 20, 2008, 01:26:14 PM
If it is just a matter of replacing a rear shock under warranty and a Termi kit I'd go to Eurosport because it may be closer to you and less expensive. But, I'd check the price of the Termi kit from them. I suspect that your shock will need to be ordered as will your Termi kit and that is what may take awhile.
Having said that, I suspect that AMS might have quicker access to those parts and might be able to get you in and out of the door quicker. Ask about turn around time at both places, if that is important to you.
Remeber the holidays, both Thanksgiving and Christmas affect work schedules and availability & delivery of parts.
cdc
Yep, I agree with all of that. [thumbsup]
Quote from: dosgatos on November 20, 2008, 11:50:19 AM
My full 695 Termis
i didn't know that Termi made a full system for 965...
I got my bike at AM$ Dallas. When I called to order the full system from them, the price went up 3 times in a few minutes. We called Plano and Eurosport. The was price was about $300 less at both places. We negotiated and got them to match the price of the other two. Yeah we paid $320 for the first service and just paid $1017 for the 2nd service. New spark plugs were $17 EACH for a $4 plug. The tank was scratched up. I think all they did was change oil, spark plugs, and check/adjust valves. All 8 shims needed to be exchanged at $15 EACH. I knew maint. was going to be high on this bike but they are charging 2 or 4 times what it should be. I did get a free gallon of oil worth $65 when I asked about the 4th qt. of oil I paid for. The bike just needs 3. something and paid for 4. I can't wait for the 15000 mile service. I'm at 11000 now, won't be long. I like the people there but they charge way too much for everything. Shop labor is $100 per hour. I know because I paid $700 just for labor on the 7500 miler.
They are charging mega bucks to help pay for the high end, trendy, extra groovy Dallas shop in the Design District. Just give them your first born child and be done with it. :P [bang]
i use ams-a. they are excellent but i do as much of my maint. as possible the only thing i can't do is valves and tire changes. working on both of them though. having said that i have learned the only folks i want touching my bike is randy, ams-a or myself.
Quote from: fastwin on November 20, 2008, 07:43:42 PM
They are charging mega bucks to help pay for the high end, trendy, extra groovy Dallas shop in the Design District. Just give them your first born child and be done with it. :P [bang]
I thought they were in the extra cool rugged MD20/20 in a paper bag Lew Starrett district ;D
Quote from: calscrazy on November 20, 2008, 07:47:16 PM
..... having said that i have learned the only folks i want touching me is randy, ams-a or myself.
There fixed it. [thumbsup]
bpc (an alias)
As far as your exhaust question, I looked up the price for the Termi exhaust for your S4R. It's the same price as other places ~ $26xx.00 for the kit itself.
If you know how to turn a wrench, you should be able to install the kit yourself and save on the shop labor rate.
I did my Full Termi exhaust kit for my 848 and saved a good amount of money and enjoyed the experience.
Quote from: giannis on November 20, 2008, 02:25:41 PM
i didn't know that Termi made a full system for 965...
Take me to school.
What I Do know: stock exhaust was low and heavy on the 695
Termi carbons are high with added pipes to get them high
New ECU and breather
What does "full" refer to besides my belly after these Mobs. :)
Full Termis would include new header pipes, usually larger diameter. You have the Termi kit that has the ECU/filter/S-pipes/CF cans.
Quote from: bryant8 on November 21, 2008, 09:48:35 AM
Full Termis would include new header pipes, usually larger diameter. You have the Termi kit that has the ECU/filter/S-pipes/CF cans.
Sounds pretty full to me... Didn't Giannis say there's not a kit including a new header pipe for the 695?
Yep, there's no Termi header pipes for the M695. A full system would swap out everything from the exhaust port back to the cans
Quote from: cdc on November 20, 2008, 08:17:29 PM
There fixed it. [thumbsup]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
bpc (an alias)
[quote from: calscrazy on Yesterday at 10:47:16 PM
..... having said that i have learned the only folks i want touching me is randy, ams-a or myself.
/quote]
LOL [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: bryant8 on November 21, 2008, 10:43:59 AM
Yep, there's no Termi header pipes for the M695. A full system would swap out everything from the exhaust port back to the cans
Yeap full system eliminates the stock exhaust all over.... headers also is the secret for more horsepower and better flow....
Quote from: fastwin on November 20, 2008, 07:43:42 PM
They are charging mega bucks to help pay for the high end, trendy, extra groovy Dallas shop in the Design District. Just give them your first born child and be done with it. :P [bang]
HA, the Jokes on them!!! Women don't want to have kids with me!!!! It's a Deal [bang]
I got my Termi system from Ducati Seattle. 2k even for the full system. They give a 10% discount to DMF members which is not chump change when you are talking about a couple grand. No one beat their price so I ordered from them and had it shipped.
Then I paid a few hours of labor to have my local shop install them.
Tony from Eurosport in Ft. Worth quoted me $2250 for the Termi kit and $175 for install. Now we are back in my price range. Looking at buying the pipes used from a guy on the board, and just picking up the ECU.
Does anyone know of other dealerships in the Texas, Oklahoma area (though anywhere will do) that give a discount for DMF?
Quote from: Clickjack on November 22, 2008, 11:34:00 AM...Does anyone know of other dealerships in the Texas, Oklahoma area (though anywhere will do) that give a discount for DMF?
No, but you might find a few that will charge a little extra.
Quote from: Ronr on November 20, 2008, 08:14:30 PM
I thought they were in the extra cool rugged MD20/20 in a paper bag Lew Starrett district ;D
+1 on that
They straight up told me today when I was dropping my bike off that their prices were up so they could keep the lights on at the Dallas location. Apparently due to some planned projects that part of town is very expensive.
Anyone have any luck getting AMS to price match?
Quote from: Clickjack on November 28, 2008, 07:37:50 PM
They straight up told me today when I was dropping my bike off that their prices were up so they could keep the lights on at the Dallas location. Apparently due to some planned projects that part of town is very expensive.
Anyone have any luck getting AMS to price match?
Thats sad. I was told the same exact thing when I was looking for my S2R, and that was the reason they couldnt price match Eurosport... also told me I should go buy the bike from them, but they wouldnt take it to them for any maintance... I was alittle shocked.
Anyways back to part of the orig. question. what should be expected for the first service. and services from there on out? I wasnt expecting to drop a G every time the bike needs a checkup...
On a side note I am pretty savvy when it comes to working on cars and such and have many tools.. so i am not afraid to get alittle dirty and turn a wrench if it means saving some cash... *I am not use to this poor college student roll* haha
Quote from: ShiftSix on November 30, 2008, 10:18:42 PM
Thats sad. I was told the same exact thing when I was looking for my S2R, and that was the reason they couldnt price match Eurosport... also told me I should go buy the bike from them, but they wouldnt take it to them for any maintance... I was alittle shocked.
Anyways back to part of the orig. question. what should be expected for the first service. and services from there on out? I wasnt expecting to drop a G every time the bike needs a checkup...
On a side note I am pretty savvy when it comes to working on cars and such and have many tools.. so i am not afraid to get alittle dirty and turn a wrench if it means saving some cash... *I am not use to this poor college student roll* haha
The unfortunate truth about Ducatis are they are more expensive to buy and even more expensive to maintain. AMS has an expensive overhead and even more so relative to Eurosports in Fort Worth. AMS is a single line dealer with access to the the most exotic of the models and ability to service them. I have seen bikes there which Eurosports would not have on their showroom floor. Eurosports has the Triumph line along with the MotoGuzzi and Aprilla to bring in more customers. They now have the Bimota line too. I'm sure they too would like to charge $100/hour for labor but the client base won't support that kind of labor charge.
For many different reasons, I have ended up buying 5 different Ducatis from EuroSports both new and used. Many times it was because of convenience since I live closer to them and the bikes had caught my eye while I was in their showroom. Again for many different reasons, I have had the bikes serviced in both locations and AMS has never refused to service my bikes just because I didn't buy it from them and neither has Eurosports. Of course I have never asked either of them to price match. I know what the response would be and I understand so I don't go there.
The good news is, with the proper tools and skills, many of the Ducs are servicable by people willing to do it themselves and both AMS and Eurosports are willing to acccept bikes for normal service that come in with oil changes and other things already done buy the owner. RichD does a lot of his own service and has a good working relationship with AMS. Bryant8 does work on his bike too and is friends with the folks at AMS. After warranty work can be done by Randy in Dallas who is less expensive than AMS.
There ia a manual by LT Snyder regarding both 2 valve and 4 valve bikes that many use as a guide in doing their own work. There are videos by Chris kelly for serviceing Ducatis. In the end however, it is still not cheap and downright expensive especially for those who don't service their own bikes.
Oopps, I forgot to mention, if you are really desperate, there are mod and service parties held where anyone with enough skills to drink from a bottle of beer can wrench on your bike. Those are the most fun to watch. Oh, did I mention it's a spectator sport too? ;D
cdc
I just wanted to put this out there after the tone of the last two posts seemed a slight bit negative. I'm not trash talking AMS. I took my bike to them, because I was told by other riders, and reviews I read that they are one of the best service departments in the nation. And I have confidence that Jeff, and the rest of the crew will return my bike to me in perfect condition.
I'm a Grad Student, who makes about 20 grand a year. If I want Termi's or other things done, I have to research, plan and save. It's a big deal for me to drop $500.00 to a thousand bucks. I'm disappointed by their prices as they are considerably higher then a couple of dealerships that are closer to me. I would love to only use AMS. I just can't afford it. And for the record, I bought my bike out of Colorado. AMS seems more then happy to work on it.
The sales guy asked me if I wanted them to do the 600 miles service, I said no that I could handle all of that myself. He get's all stern with me and tells me that the belts have to be harmonically balanced and that's something that only they can do. Anyone heard of this Harmonically balancing crap? According to Eurosport a 600 mile service is just "change oil and filter,
check brake and clutch fluid, brake pads. Adjust and lube chain and test ride." All stuff I can handle.
Quote from: Clickjack on December 01, 2008, 09:41:50 AM
I just wanted to put this out there after the tone of the last two posts seemed a slight bit negative. I'm not trash talking AMS. I took my bike to them, because I was told by other riders, and reviews I read that they are one of the best service departments in the nation. And I have confidence that Jeff, and the rest of the crew will return my bike to me in perfect condition.
I'm a Grad Student, who makes about 20 grand a year. If I want Termi's or other things done, I have to research, plan and save. It's a big deal for me to drop $500.00 to a thousand bucks. I'm disappointed by their prices as they are considerably higher then a couple of dealerships that are closer to me. I would love to only use AMS. I just can't afford it. And for the record, I bought my bike out of Colorado. AMS seems more then happy to work on it.
The sales guy (kind of jerk, but seems to be in their blood) asked me if I wanted them to do the 600 miles service, I said no that I could handle all of that myself. He get's all stern with me and tells me that the belts have to be harmonically balanced and that's something that only they can do. Anyone heard of this Harmonically balancing crap? According to Eurosport a 600 mile service is just "change oil and filter,
check brake and clutch fluid, brake pads. Adjust and lube chain and test ride." All stuff I can handle.
Sorry if my post came across the wrong way. Actually the whole post was just a lead in to the "service and mod parties" we occassionally do around here which is fun and at the same time gut wrenching when you consider that the donor bike gets worked on by a bunch of boozed up mechanical wiz kids. We could work on your bike if you want. Let me check the schedule.... ;D
cdc
would yall be interested in a Termi Install?
On a serious note:
Checking the tension of the cam belts are done in different ways, one of which is by sound (harmonically). I'm serious. I'd go into more detail but I'd run the risk of stepping on my own tongue. Then I'd fall down and hurt my head. That hurts, don't ask me why I know.
cdc
Quote from: cdc on December 01, 2008, 09:55:48 AM
Sorry if my post came across the wrong way.
Not so much that it came across the wrong way, as I don't want to come across the wrong way. The last thing I want is AMS to think is that I'm getting free warranty work out of them and then trash talking them behind their backs. I really wish I could just plop a stack of cash down and have them do everything I want done.
Quote from: Clickjack on December 01, 2008, 10:01:29 AM
would yall be interested in a Termi Install?
Hey y'all!!! We have a
victim, I mean a client. [thumbsup]
Let's see. Along with the usual suspects, we would need someone who actually knows what he was doing. That would be either RichD or I know Bryant8's did his so he has more experience that I do. So all we now need is beer. I have a few choice selections from previous parties and we can get some more for when it doesn't matter what we're drinking.
Oh yeah the bike, ...ahh we'll wing it. ;D
WHEN?
cdc
Not quite sure when yet. I have the cash for the parts. I'm just figuring out if I can actually buy them or if I need to put this money into bills. My profession doesn't hire people if you are behind in your bills. I'm a little behind and I have a job test in Feb.
I'll get back to you.
Quote from: Clickjack on December 01, 2008, 09:41:50 AM...The sales guy...get's all stern with me and tells me that the belts have to be harmonically balanced and that's something that only they can do. Anyone heard of this Harmonically balancing...
The belt tension needs to be set/checked when the engine is "cold" (~72°F )
The original specification for belt tension is 110Hz (if you pluck it like a guitar string it vibrates back-and-forth 110 times a second).
The new official (and probably somewhat unpublished) belt tension for the 1098/848 is 80Hz.
If you are not trained/experienced
and have the tools you can not tell the difference.
So what does the 30Hz difference in frequency really mean?
SIX DEGREES of cam timing difference!
-That is a
LOT.
Where did the factory actually set it on your bike (old/new specification)?
Have the belts "bedded in" some?
Has the manufacturing finish on the pullies polished out -affecting the tension? (probably!)
You could get away with not checking/adjusting it,
but it may not run right, might stall, etc.
IMHO it is best to check it at the 600 mile tuneup.
CDC is right, mod partys are cool. I got to watch a carb torn down and cleaned, then actually reassembled so it worked! way above my paygrade [bow_down]
The bolt on steps of a full exhaust install are pretty straight forward. Loose fit all the system then slowly torque the bolts to spec, checking fit the whole while.
Life is easier with a lift, but not necessary. I didn't use one for either of the exhuast installs I've done.
I do recommend getting some SS nuts to replace the OEM ones on the header pipes as they are prone to getting rounded off.
But you will want to get your TPS reset at the dealer, not to mention a dyno run/mapping session to get tweak the A/F ratio to suit your bike. Yes the stock DP ECU map will work fine, but no two bikes are exactly the same. IMO a custom map will make the bike all that much better.
I saved a good amount on doing the install myself and the taking the 848 up to AMS for the TPS reset and dyno session later.
In fact Jordan did the TPS reset while my bike was still in the back of my truck. Off the top of my head the dyno time was about 3 hours at shop rate.
Hopefully I'll be taking my exhaust off again soon for some ceramic coating this winter
installing the exhaust is the easy/cheap/fun part...i put my arrows on in the street by myself...nothing else needed, and it runs great with the stock ecu.
Quote from: Wallace on December 01, 2008, 10:20:38 AM
The belt tension needs to be set/checked when the engine is "cold" (~72°F )
The original specification for belt tension is 110Hz (if you pluck it like a guitar string it vibrates back-and-forth 110 times a second).
The new official (and probably somewhat unpublished) belt tension for the 1098/848 is 80Hz.
If you are not trained/experienced and have the tools you can not tell the difference.
So what does the 30Hz difference in frequency really mean?
SIX DEGREES of cam timing difference!
-That is a LOT.
Where did the factory actually set it on your bike (old/new specification)?
Have the belts "bedded in" some?
Has the manufacturing finish on the pullies polished out -affecting the tension? (probably!)
You could get away with not checking/adjusting it,
but it may not run right, might stall, etc.
IMHO it is best to check it at the 600 mile tuneup.
And this is why I [bow_down] when I see RichD. ;)
Quote from: Clickjack on December 01, 2008, 10:16:28 AM
I'll get back to you.
Quote from: cdc on December 01, 2008, 10:12:33 AM
Hey y'all!!! We have a victim, I mean a client. [thumbsup] .........Oh yeah the bike, ...ahh we'll wing it. ;D
WHEN?
cdc
Chickened out eh click? J/K
cdc
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on December 01, 2008, 11:22:27 AM
installing the exhaust is the easy/cheap/fun part...i put my arrows on in the street by myself...nothing else needed, and it runs great with the stock ecu.
I knew others had done it to their bikes but couldn't remember who else.
cdc
Quote from: Wallace on December 01, 2008, 10:20:38 AM
The belt tension needs to be set/checked when the engine is "cold" (~72°F )
The original specification for belt tension is 110Hz (if you pluck it like a guitar string it vibrates back-and-forth 110 times a second).
The new official (and probably somewhat unpublished) belt tension for the 1098/848 is 80Hz.
If you are not trained/experienced and have the tools you can not tell the difference.
So what does the 30Hz difference in frequency really mean?
SIX DEGREES of cam timing difference!
-That is a LOT.
Where did the factory actually set it on your bike (old/new specification)?
Have the belts "bedded in" some?
Has the manufacturing finish on the pullies polished out -affecting the tension? (probably!)
You could get away with not checking/adjusting it,
but it may not run right, might stall, etc.
IMHO it is best to check it at the 600 mile tuneup.
Who is this Wallace guy, some kind of know it all? I bet RichD knows more than this clown. At least he wouldn't ask all these silly questions. ;D
***
Quote from: cdc on December 01, 2008, 08:28:04 PM
I knew others had done it to their bikes but couldn't remember who else.
cdc
I swapped the exhaust out on my 1098. Kind of a hassle after several thousand miles of heat cycles and breakneck speeds, but I wouldn't pay to have it done. Bryant's suggestion about buying fresh nuts is a good one.
Quote from: Ronr on December 01, 2008, 09:47:02 PM
I swapped the exhaust out on my 1098. Kind of a hassle after several thousand miles of heat cycles and breakneck speeds, but I wouldn't pay to have it done. Bryant's suggestion about buying fresh nuts is a good one.
HAH.... he said "fresh nuts". ;D
yeah I jus want to clarify that I wasnt upset with AMS at all, and they told me they would gladly serivce my bike any time, and it didnt matter that it came from eurosport. I just didnt know what to expect for service charges... I mean the 300 for the first one is nota big deal... and if it was around there from then on I could live with that... I wasnt expecting it to be worse than My volkswagen for up keep tho.... like the other guy said about makin about 20k a year... yeah I just started doing this whole poor college student thing and so far its pretty hard knowin your broke when you use to have the cash for such things and some left over.
Quote from: dallas2r on December 01, 2008, 10:10:36 PM
HAH.... he said "fresh nuts". ;D
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
I was able to get a price match from AMS when I bought my S2R1K last September. I had originally called BMW of North Dallas and they quoted me 10k for the bike but they only had the silver paint scheme. I wanted red and called AMS asking if they'd come down $500 to match which they did.
First 600 mile svc - $280
7500 mile svc - $635
Quote from: dallas2r on December 01, 2008, 10:40:35 PM
I was able to get a price match from AMS when I bought my S2R1K last September. I had originally called BMW of North Dallas and they quoted me 10k for the bike but they only had the silver paint scheme. I wanted red and called AMS asking if they'd come down $500 to match which they did.
First 600 mile svc - $280
7500 mile svc - $635
Thanks this helps alot, yeah when I told the sales man at AMS-A he just laughed and said he couldnt even come close, which was a bummer cause there shop is litteraly 10 mins frmo my house.. On a side note I dont think the "deal" I got was that awsome, but maybe? 11k out the door on a 08 s2r1k from eurosport, but Im in love with the bike and wanted one before they dissapeared.. anyways im rambling,
one question tho, which place did you end up taking the bike to for the 7500miler?
Quote from: ShiftSix on December 02, 2008, 05:39:41 PM
Thanks this helps alot, yeah when I told the sales man at AMS-A he just laughed and said he couldnt even come close, which was a bummer cause there shop is litteraly 10 mins frmo my house.. On a side note I dont think the "deal" I got was that awsome, but maybe? 11k out the door on a 08 s2r1k from eurosport, but Im in love with the bike and wanted one before they dissapeared.. anyways im rambling,
one question tho, which place did you end up taking the bike to for the 7500miler?
AMS did both services.
11k out the door isn't bad at all. Sounds like a good deal to me.
Glad to hear you're loving the bike. I've got 14k on mine now and still love it every time I ride her.
I know, I know, I'm reeeeeeeeally late on this post.
I would like to offer my opinions/experiences with AMS, Eurosport, and Nth TX BMW as far as maintenance/service goes.
I've had a bike of mine in each service dept.
I will happily take my bike to AMS. You get what you pay for and piece of mind is worth it to me. They are darned expensive in comparison with the other two. I rode down there to have a new shock spring installed and had them dyno/tweek my ST4s. Shock spring $100, labor $100, TPS/Dyno $200 while the body work was off (expensive part of labor on STx bikes). Bike runs great.
I am happy with Nth Tx BMW. I had my 18K service on my Red 02 ST4s done there and they replaced some worn rockers under warranty. Had the 6K valve check and new belts put on (way past 2 years old) there on my Yellow 03 ST4s, took off the body work and they didn't do a full service so it wasn't too expensive. AMS at the time said they would only do a full service, not partial.
I won't take my bike to Eurosport EVER, nor will I EVER buy a Bike from Eurosport. I have my reasons and they don't need to be publicly aired. But if you're interested, PM me.
Steve