ok so Elizabeth and I went riding today, she did exceptionally well, and after filling up our bikes I turned the key and NADA! I turned it back and then did it again.....vuala it crancked. seems to be a repetitive thing. the guages sweeped across and all lights functional and no she was not in gear with kickstand down.
any ideas or suggestions?
Kill switch perhaps?
Quote from: bryant8 on December 07, 2008, 04:05:18 PM
Kill switch perhaps?
nope, that's good too. thinking ignition maybe????
Quote from: muskrat on December 07, 2008, 04:10:17 PM
nope, that's good too. thinking ignition maybe????
Are you in neutral, clutch in?
If so, sounds more like a loose connection somewhere...
Loose ground wire maybe?
Neutral no clutch
I have had this happen once where although the bike was in neutral (based on rolling freely)the neutral light wan't on and bike wouldn't start. I eventually just nudged shifter a hair, light turned green and bike started. Agree with other rec regarding ground.
Quote from: bryant8 on December 07, 2008, 04:31:17 PM
Loose ground wire maybe?
what ground wire? so many wires there.
Quote from: muskrat on December 07, 2008, 07:15:40 PM
what ground wire? so many wires there.
BUMP.
can someone help with the ground wire issue????
Thanks
check pm
Had that once after washing, let it sit for 20 and never happened again. That's all I know.
Quote from: dosgatos on December 08, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
Had that once after washing, let it sit for 20 and never happened again. That's all I know.
I'm always careful to never spray water there but it hasn't been soaked or washed in over three weeks.....
Find the negative terminal on the battery and follow the cable that attaches to the frame. It it's loose or corroded that may part of the issue. Put a battery tender on the bike and let it trickle charge.
IIRC the ground should be back near your rear brake reservoir?? my memory sucks though so i could be off.
Quote from: bryant8 on December 08, 2008, 09:59:49 AM
Find the negative terminal on the battery and follow the cable that attaches to the frame. It it's loose or corroded that may part of the issue. Put a battery tender on the bike and let it trickle charge.
Had this problem with my M900 ('97) this summer. Ground is on the Left side (sitting on) and under the battery tray. Use a screwdriver on it.
Quote from: greenohawk69 on December 08, 2008, 11:22:47 AM
Had this problem with my M900 ('97) this summer. Ground is on the Left side (sitting on) and under the battery tray. Use a screwdriver on it.
checked the ground wire and all is good......any other ideas?
Do you leave your battery on a tender overnight? It might be as simple as that. Does your display have a voltage readout?
no readout on the guages as it's an 02. Tender was showing fully charged last week also.
I'd have to venture the guess that the bike is fine if it's firing up consistantly now. I'd just make sure to keep the bike on a tender.
Being an '02 model, does it have a red key and an immobilzer?
I am assuming that you are refering to your '02 750ie. In '02, the ST4S was plagued with the no start/sometimes start problem. In didn't matter what the circumstance was, sometimes the bike started and sometimes it didn't. I have a long list of things that were postulated to be the problem and anyone or combination of things could have been the problem.
If you look at the list of things that were done on my bike one or more of them could be your problem. A caveat though is that my bike, an '02 ST4S differs from your bike in that it is a 996cc, watercooled 4v which may have needed more juice to start than your bike (or not).
It was suggested that the ST4S had an undersized battery to begin with. I now have a larger battery. I can't believe that you have an undersized battery but maybe one that is weak. Load test it to see if it really is good and solid. The battery tender showing full charge does not guarranty that it is solid and firing on all six cells.
The power cables of the ST4S were deemed undersized. I now have upgraded, larger guage cables to the ground, the starter and alternator. I don't know if the cables did much to correct my problem but in your case, disconnecting the cables and cleanning the connectors well with a liberal coating of dielectric grease when putting back together can only help. Additionally, the ECU has a ground wire that may have corrosion or is loose.
Don't ignore the kill switch being faulty.
I did not need to replace the alternator or voltage regulator but these need to be checked to see if they are working well. In some of the older Monsters (maybe not yours) the voltage regulator needed to be relocated to allow them to run cooler than they would in the stock location.
In the ST4S, the ignition pickup was sometimes not ideally set. If the gap was too large, the bike would have intermitently have a starting problem. I am not saying this may apply to your bike but is one thing that was thought to have gone awry in the ST4S so it is something to consider when the above items check out and the problem remains. Sometimes the ignition coil goes bad.
Finally, some of the ST4S' needed a new ECU. My bike got one under warranty. I would consider this an extreme option on your part since the bike is possible out of warranty but it is part of the problem checklist.
In summary, do the following first:
#1 check and CLEAN the power cable connectors and ground cable to ECU
#2 load test your battery
#3 check the kill switch for integrity
If the above check out to be good then,
#4 check the voltage regulator
#5 check the alternator
#6 check the ignition coils.
cdc
This time of the year will bring out any battery/starting problems you've got...
I recently had "no start" problems with my 1098.
The computer would do the start sequence when I pushed the button
(the 1098 turns off the headlight when it is trying to start)
but it would not even try to crank... 50% of the time.
It was the starter solenoid.
I found smacking the bike on the ground a couple of times cleared it right up.
If you want to save some money it would probably be cheaper
to remove it and try that trick off the bike.
I also recently changed to an Odyssey battery on my SS.
It was always hard to start: Thick oil, high comp pistons, racing carbs with no choke.
In cold weather if I didn't get it lit off within three tries it wasn't going to go...
The year old Yuasa Yu-Micron just wouldn't do the job.
The Oddyssey never slows down.
Just effin' amazing.
No trickle charge needed unless you park it over a year...
I'm putting one in my other toys as they come due.
i may look into this Odyssey brand... i just installed a new Yuasa on the S4R about a month ago, but temps like last night make me wonder if it will be sufficient to stand up to a winter parked outside. any links to an online store that carries something that fits the S*R? i did a quick search but didn't get results.
I used an Odyssey PC680 I had laying around in my old M750, so it should fit the S2R. They are a tad heavier, but much more powerful. Baterries plus in town actually stocks them, or you can get a decent price at http://www.gotbatteries.com/items.asp?params=batteries/SLA/1/Hawker%20Odyssey/PC680/0769-2016/SL105/37L105S5 (http://www.gotbatteries.com/items.asp?params=batteries/SLA/1/Hawker%20Odyssey/PC680/0769-2016/SL105/37L105S5) I've bought several from that vendor.
If anyone wants to give it a try for fitment, I have a couple left over from the race car that don't hold their charge as long, but are still easily good for a many starts on an L-twin.
Quote from: webspoke on December 10, 2008, 08:06:05 AM
I used an Odyssey PC680 I had laying around in my old M750, so it should fit the S2R. They are a tad heavier, but much more powerful. Baterries plus in town actually stocks them, or you can get a decent price at http://www.gotbatteries.com/items.asp?params=batteries/SLA/1/Hawker%20Odyssey/PC680/0769-2016/SL105/37L105S5 (http://www.gotbatteries.com/items.asp?params=batteries/SLA/1/Hawker%20Odyssey/PC680/0769-2016/SL105/37L105S5) I've bought several from that vendor.
If anyone wants to give it a try for fitment, I have a couple left over from the race car that don't hold their charge as long, but are still easily good for a many starts on an L-twin.
sweet, thanks for the link. looking at the Odyessy stats, i'm tempted to go that route, just because i need to ride my bike all winter, and it stays parked outside. i think our oem batteries should be the same... Yuasa YT12B-BS. so if the PC680 fit your M750, it
should fit the S4R. though, i checked out the dimensions of the PC680 and it is slightly bigger than the yuasa. 7.3 x 3.1 x 6.7, vs. 6 x 2.75 x 5.125. i'll have to pop up the tank and ensure there's some wiggle room to fit something bigger in.
sorry for the threadjack btw. let us know what you find out after going through charles' list.
good stuff here for sure, another thing, is your vent line on the tank kinked?
Quote from: hiero on December 10, 2008, 09:09:18 AM
good stuff here for sure, another thing, is your vent line on the tank kinked?
+1
I'm not sure from the description of the problem... does it crank but not fire? Not crank at all? ..?
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on December 10, 2008, 05:08:01 AM
i may look into this Odyssey brand... any links to an online store...
The place I got my
PC680 from has them
on sale 'till the end of the month for $98.95+ shipping ($14.19).
$113.14 total to my door. It is shipped fully charged and ready to install.
(regular price of the ODY-PC680 is $121.49)
www.batterymart.com (http://www.batterymart.com)
The funny thing is the PC680 is the same battery Jason uses to start/run his airplane!
any updates?
cdc
I can bring a battery (PC680) this weekend if you want to try it out.
Quote from: cdc on December 15, 2008, 10:27:21 PM
any updates?
cdc
not yet. have a water leak under slate in bathroom so it's taken all my time so far. although I have started it with no problems. Today or tomorrow I should know more though. one thing after another around here.
Holla if ya need help [thumbsup]
i've had the exact same symptoms on my bike and i think its the immoblizer. check to see if yours does this whenever it doesn't start. before you start it, turn it to the ON position and check to see if the ORANGE immobilizer light stays on, if that stays on, it means the ecu does NOT recognize the key and will not start.
what i do is turn it off for a few seconds and turn it back on. sometimes i would have to do this 2-3 times. when i do this, the orange immobilizer light will go off and i can start it no problem.
im thinking of reprogramming the keys myself as i heard there is a special procedure for doing so. does anyone know how its done? apparently, you gotta use the red key with it
Quote from: vstryker on December 16, 2008, 01:51:37 PM
i've had the exact same symptoms on my bike and i think its the immoblizer. check to see if yours does this whenever it doesn't start. before you start it, turn it to the ON position and check to see if the ORANGE immobilizer light stays on, if that stays on, it means the ecu does NOT recognize the key and will not start.
what i do is turn it off for a few seconds and turn it back on. sometimes i would have to do this 2-3 times. when i do this, the orange immobilizer light will go off and i can start it no problem.
Good thought.
In the 2002 ST4S saga, the immobilizer was never the problem. I don't know if the Monster had an immobilizer in 2002 but if it did, it could be the culprit in this case.
Quote from: vstryker on December 16, 2008, 01:51:37 PM
im thinking of reprogramming the keys myself as i heard there is a special procedure for doing so. does anyone know how its done? apparently, you gotta use the red key with it
you're right, you need the red key to do that. If you do have you Red key, ask AMS or Eurosport Cycle in Fort Worth they might be able to give you the procedure.
Ok, so my bike will not start with the same problem again. when i tried to use the red key to reprogram the other keys, it will not go into the REPROGRAMMING mode at all. the red key now acts exactly the same as the other 2 black keys, the bike doesn't seem to recognize it as the Master RED key.
the only way i can start the bike now is by using the throttle twist code with the code card. help please...
Warranty?
if so.....use it!
Wouldn't you know it, now my Monster 1000S won't start. All the lights come on and the fuel pump comes on but when you hit the start button nada. No nothing won't even crank. I put the bike on a Battery Tender and the battery read 12.9 volts. Made sure the kill switch was not accidentally in the kill position and the bike not in gear.
Then as I was writing this, I thought maybe the side stand switch is screwy. I ran down to the bike and flipped the kick stand and wouldn't you know, it started. [thumbsup]
Now I know what's wrong, I'll have to firgure out why it went wrong. >:(
I need a cigar and a beer. ;D
cdc
Quote from: cdc on December 18, 2008, 05:33:57 PM
I need a cigar and a beer. ;D
cdc
Feel free to join me. I am doing just that [thumbsup]
Quote from: Slag on December 18, 2008, 05:35:50 PM
Feel free to join me. I am doing just that [thumbsup]
Ah, great minds and all that.... ;D
Flash Mob?
cdc
There is always time for a flash mob [evil]
Quote from: Slag on December 18, 2008, 05:50:14 PM
There is always time for a flash mob [evil]
I should get a Playstation or WII before I do a flash mob.
I should clean my garage before I invite peeps to the house.
I should put the beer in the fridge and get some food.
We could play darts and shoot pool.
You coming?
cdc
I am drun andshouldnotdrive [bang]
Quote from: Slag on December 18, 2008, 06:01:09 PM
I am drun andshouldnotdrive [bang]
Enjoy the cigar then.
cdc
Quote from: cdc on December 18, 2008, 05:33:57 PM
Wouldn't you know it, now my Monster 1000S won't start. All the lights come on and the fuel pump comes on but when you hit the start button nada. No nothing won't even crank. I put the bike on a Battery Tender and the battery read 12.9 volts. Made sure the kill switch was not accidentally in the kill position and the bike not in gear.
Then as I was writing this, I thought maybe the side stand switch is screwy. I ran down to the bike and flipped the kick stand and wouldn't you know, it started. [thumbsup]
Now I know what's wrong, I'll have to firgure out why it went wrong. >:(
I need a cigar and a beer. ;D
cdc
More on this saga....
So the bike didn't want to start with the kickstand down but did start with it up. I asked Les over at EuroSport what the problem could be and he asked me if the green light for neutral was on and initially I said yes because I was able to move the bike around and I know it was not in gear.
Then he asked " but in which Neutral was it in?" I thought it was just Les asking confusing questions again. But I realized that although I could move the bike around, the green light was in fact not on. So I walked to the bike and with the kickstand down, I turned the key and with the green Neutral light on, the bike fired right up.
Whoa. So it is now possible to start the bike up with the kickstand down as long as the green neutral light is on and the bike in true Neutral. Back to normal. [thumbsup]
Possible problem, Neutral switch located behind the crankcase breather with a thin insulated wire coming off the back of the case to the rear of the vertical cylinder.
Another lesson learned.
cdc
Quote from: cdc on December 19, 2008, 02:52:33 PM...Possible problem, Neutral switch located behind the crankcase breather...
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly where on the shift drum this switch indexes, but it must be easy for it to either gum up due to sludge/gunk or it doesn't have a really accurate place to detect the drum position.
It's always bugged me -the inconsistent neutral light "thing" on Ducs.
It's nothing new, but by now (you know, in the last ten years or so) I would have figured they would have addressed it.
i have always started the bike in neutral with the green neutral light on but it still does nothing. i did try the throttle twist and it fired right up and i've observed that after it starting, it will recognize all of the keys. however, 5 mins after shutting the bike off with the key in the OFF position, the bike again will not recognize any of the keys. i even tried to use the red key to reprogram it many times but it never goes into reprogramming mode with the 01-30 countdown thingi.
luckily, it's hibernating for the season as it is snowing here in vancouver, and so i will have to wait till spring to take it to the dealer.
Quote from: vstryker on December 19, 2008, 04:46:44 PM
i have always started the bike in neutral with the green neutral light on but it still does nothing. i did try the throttle twist and it fired right up and i've observed that after it starting, it will recognize all of the keys. however, 5 mins after shutting the bike off with the key in the OFF position, the bike again will not recognize any of the keys. i even tried to use the red key to reprogram it many times but it never goes into reprogramming mode with the 01-30 countdown thingi.
luckily, it's hibernating for the season as it is snowing here in vancouver, and so i will have to wait till spring to take it to the dealer.
IMO, I'd try and track down the problem before the Spring. That way if the bike has problems coming out of hibernation, that's one less thing you'll have to account for in trying to get it back out on the road. [thumbsup]