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Local Clubs => DFWM => Topic started by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 12:08:11 AM

Title: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 12:08:11 AM
I'm heading to Copperas Cove early Saturday morning for a cycling race and started thinking, "hey, why don't I make a trip out of it".

Here's my plan. Leave super early Saturday morning to make it to Copperas Cove for my race @ 10:45 which will last about 2.5 hours. From there the plan gets a little hazy, but it involves eating lunch, then heading somewhere to camp. Possibly Colorado Bend State Park, maybe Enchanted Rock, or even a further trek down to Koyote Ranch. The further south I camp, the better the chances of hitting the 3 sisters before heading back to Dallas sunday afternoon/evening. Wherever I end up, there WILL be fun roads found on Sunday for sure!  [moto]

So who's up for a trip?  [beer]




Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: LYD on January 16, 2009, 03:38:39 AM
Will,
lets say it is only you and I.  You wake up in the morning with a rubber hanging out your butt, and a half used tube of KY next to you, do you tell anyone??  [evil]

if you answer...

No = I'll be there.  [thumbsup]
Yes = Sorry can't make it at this time.  ;D  
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Cher on January 16, 2009, 04:49:32 AM

Damn, my Saturday is totally used up already with "stuff I gotta do"   :-[   Sounds like an awesome trip though.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: bryant8 on January 16, 2009, 07:19:29 AM
Damn, I think that would be fun hitting ER and CBSP.

But I think I need the hill training ride at Mt View this weekend.

Have fun and good luck on the race!  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Duc L'Smart on January 16, 2009, 07:21:16 AM
Hmmm, does someone have a new rear tire to burn through?!? ;D
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: WillyNilly on January 16, 2009, 07:21:16 AM
Hmmm, does someone have a new rear tire to burn through?!? ;D

go to Cycle Gear, they'll mount it while you wait.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Duc L'Smart on January 16, 2009, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 04:27:46 PM
go to Cycle Gear, they'll mount it while you wait.

Randy mounted it today while William waited [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 04:38:27 PM
I don't get it.  why then would you ask someone for a rear tire to burn?

glad Will got a new tire since he was on threads.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: cdc on January 16, 2009, 04:49:27 PM
Quote from: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 04:38:27 PM
I don't get it.  why then would you ask someone for a rear tire to burn?


because that is how Scott rolls.

[roll] [roll]

cdc
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Ronr on January 16, 2009, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: cdc on January 16, 2009, 04:49:27 PM
because that is how Scott rolls.

[roll] [roll]

cdc

I like your response better than mine.

Scott doesn't want somebody's tire. He's smartassedly asking d2r if he (someone) just got a sticker tire that he wants to destroy in the HC like d2r did to the last tire when he went camping in the HC.  We will now wait for d2r to return and post photos of his rear tire so we can evaluate his tire choice versus the earlier shit tire that he purchased. I pity d2r's rear tire.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 04:27:46 PM
go to Cycle Gear, they'll mount it while you wait.

Sure they'll mount it but they won't balance. They don't have the proper tools to balance my particular rim. Besides, I wouldn't trust Cycle Gear with a 10 ft. pole.  ;D

Randy's the man. He's let me hang out every time I've had him do anything and I've learned a bunch. It's evident to me that he honestly cares what he's doing and that fact alone gives me great peace of mind. He's extremely reasonable on pricing too.  [thumbsup] [thumbsup]  (that's two thumbs-up)


Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: Ronr on January 16, 2009, 05:13:44 PM
I pity d2r's rear tire.

I'm going to be much gentler on this one if I can help it. It'll probably help to keep off the throttle while carrying luggage. Ah crap who am I fooling; this one doesn't stand a chance. Life's too short, so I might as well just order another set now.  [moto]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: cdc on January 16, 2009, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 06:03:35 PM
I'm going to be much gentler on this one if I can help it. It'll probably help to keep off the throttle while carrying luggage. Ah crap who am I fooling; this one doesn't stand a chance. Life's too short, so I might as well just order another set now.  [moto]

Curious what tire pressure you run on those rear tires.  Do you increase them if you carry luggage for a trip?  How many more pounds pressure if you do?  Do you frequently run over 100 MPH? Sorry dumb question  [bang].

cdc
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 06:25:05 PM
Quote from: cdc on January 16, 2009, 06:15:05 PM
Curious what tire pressure you run on those rear tires.  Do you increase them if you carry luggage for a trip?  How many more pounds pressure if you do?  Do you frequently run over 100 MPH? Sorry dumb question  [bang].

cdc

Everyone one I've talked to concurs with BMW's suggestion of 42 Rear/36 Front. I've left it at that in all situations.

My allotment of probations, defensive drivings, and deferred adjudications over the last 15 months could probably answer your last question better than anything else.  [coffee]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: cdc on January 16, 2009, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 06:25:05 PM
Everyone one I've talked to concurs with BMW's suggestion of 42 Rear/36 Front. I've left it at that in all situations.


In all situations?  Loaded down with luggage and unladened?  Seems counterintuitive.  Why not try raising the rear tire pressure when on a long distance trip with luggage.  try +2 to +4 psi.

BTW, what brand tire did you shred?  What tire are you going to/did replace it with?

cdc
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 09:40:15 PM
Quote from: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
Sure they'll mount it but they won't balance. They don't have the proper tools to balance my particular rim. Besides, I wouldn't trust Cycle Gear with a 10 ft. pole.  ;D

Randy's the man. He's let me hang out every time I've had him do anything and I've learned a bunch. It's evident to me that he honestly cares what he's doing and that fact alone gives me great peace of mind. He's extremely reasonable on pricing too.  [thumbsup] [thumbsup]  (that's two thumbs-up)

offered it up as a suggestion, don't know why, but they never changed a tire of mine.  I have my trusty mechanic in McKinney.  [moto]


Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Cyclone on January 16, 2009, 10:14:50 PM
Quote from: cdc on January 16, 2009, 07:08:07 PM
In all situations?  Loaded down with luggage and unladened?  Seems counterintuitive.  Why not try raising the rear tire pressure when on a long distance trip with luggage.  try +2 to +4 psi.

BTW, what brand tire did you shred?  What tire are you going to/did replace it with?

cdc

He had a pirelli tire & got a pirelli tire - his center wear on the old one was typical shaft drive scuff wear. Hot starts & stops & just plain shifting ( particularly downshifts where the downshift braking makes the tire scuff ).  More pressure makes this worse since the contact patch is smaller.  Using the brakes to brake and matching RPM to speed on downshift will save a lot of tire.  [thumbsup]  I think this is why Metzler's are so hard & stiff ( what she said ) !  [laugh]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 10:29:53 PM
Quote from: cdc on January 16, 2009, 07:08:07 PM
In all situations?  Loaded down with luggage and unladened?  Seems counterintuitive.  Why not try raising the rear tire pressure when on a long distance trip with luggage.  try +2 to +4 psi.

BTW, what brand tire did you shred?  What tire are you going to/did replace it with?

cdc

To tell you the truth, I haven't given it much thought until now. 42 already seams pretty high to me so it worries me to push it any further and possibly lose out on surface contact. I really don't think it's anything I can avoid. It's a heavy bike at about 540lbs wet. Add maybe 50lbs of luggage to that with a heavy throttle hand pushing 167bhp and it's probably to be expected. I know what to expect now and can adjust accordingly.

The tire was a Diablo Supersport Street. Cycle gear had the set on sale for $190 just before Christmas so I decided to give them a shot. The front is still in good shape, so I went with another Supersport Street just on the rear. I've heard good things about the Pilot Road 2's so I'll try those out next change.

Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 10:34:01 PM
Quote from: Cyclone on January 16, 2009, 10:14:50 PM
He had a pirelli tire & got a pirelli tire - his center wear on the old one was typical shaft drive scuff wear. Hot starts & stops & just plain shifting ( particularly downshifts where the downshift braking makes the tire scuff ).  More pressure makes this worse since the contact patch is smaller.  Using the brakes to brake and matching RPM to speed on downshift will save a lot of tire.  [thumbsup]  I think this is why Metzler's are so hard & stiff ( what she said ) !  [laugh]

Good points. It might make more sense to run lower (like 40) on the rear when I'm solo. I do use a lot of engine breaking, and it's been a learning process on matching the revs. It's getting better.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 10:35:14 PM
Quote from: muskrat on January 16, 2009, 09:40:15 PM
offered it up as a suggestion, don't know why, but they never changed a tire of mine.  I have my trusty mechanic in McKinney.   [moto]

I've just heard bad things about Cycle Gear and don't trust them. YMMV   [thumbsup]


Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: cdc on January 17, 2009, 12:39:59 AM
Quote from: Cyclone on January 16, 2009, 10:14:50 PM
He had a pirelli tire & got a pirelli tire - his center wear on the old one was typical shaft drive scuff wear. Hot starts & stops & just plain shifting ( particularly downshifts where the downshift braking makes the tire scuff ).  More pressure makes this worse since the contact patch is smaller.  Using the brakes to brake and matching RPM to speed on downshift will save a lot of tire.  [thumbsup]  I think this is why Metzler's are so hard & stiff ( what she said ) !  [laugh]

Interesting and makes sense except for the shaft drive scuff wear. My bikes are chain drive and I engine brake more than I use the rear brake (which is why I never complain about Ducati's rear brake being weak) and I get the same wear pattern.

What was different about Wil's  tire was the premature wear which I think as Donald mentioned, may be because of hot starts.  I think thatpart of the reason for Wil's hiher wear are high speeds and relative under inflation given the extra load he carries on a long trip.  Most of the time, the factory recommended tire pressures assumes regular load.  When extra load is expected, the manual recommends a higher pressure.  I believe the rationale for this is that the tire will be stiffer and will less likely heat up and wear less.  As a lot of the miles will be on the center of the tire instead of the sides, the tire will last longer. 

You might argue that the sides of the tire will offer less grip but I think that the additional weight and long distance will be enough to heat the tire up properly.  If more side grip is needed hopefully you can wait until the bike is unloaded of additional gear and you can lower the tire pressures to allow the tire to generate more heat.  That is what they do during track days.  My bikes regular tire pressures are 32/36 front to rear but are reduced to 30/30 for track days to allow more heat and quicker heat build up.  I bet the shredded sides during track days are because the sides are hot and the rubber consequently softer and wear faster but grip more.

Lastly, the Pirelli Diabolo Supersport Street is not listed in the current Pirelli website unless you mean the Diabolo Strada.  In either case, the Corsa III are their dual compound tire and may be a better choice for the BMW which seems to see a fair amount of long distance runs.  I suggest you get a dual compound tire which most tire manufacturers make to give you the longer center stripe wear and stickier sides for when your riding involves an altered perception of the horizon.   ;D

Live the dream.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Duc L'Smart on January 17, 2009, 03:48:31 AM
He got 2000 miles out of the tire, including a HC/3Sisters run, all in 3 weeks [bow_down]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: LYD on January 17, 2009, 04:42:01 AM
+1 on Randy being the MAN!!  Good luck Will in the race!!
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 17, 2009, 04:56:51 AM
Quote from: LYDBLQ on January 17, 2009, 04:42:01 AM
+1 on Randy being the MAN!!  Good luck Will in the race!!

Thanks Alan.  [thumbsup]

I'm off. Hope everyone has a great weekend!  [beer]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Duc L'Smart on January 17, 2009, 06:36:11 AM
Quote from: dallas2r on January 17, 2009, 04:56:51 AM
I'm off.

We know... That's why we like you!!!
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Cyclone on January 17, 2009, 09:00:33 AM
 ;D Will - don't know if you got an owner's manual with your bike but mine weighs the same as yours ( almost exactly )
the cold tire pressures they tell one to use for:

Solo - is 32 PSI front;  36 PSI rear ( my standard setting )

Two Up - 36 PSI front;  39 PSI Rear ( my setting with Cyclonette )

Two up with 50 lbs luggage ( Max Gross vehicle weight )  36 PSI Front;  42 PSI Rear

It may be different on the K but if you got your info from a BMW Dealer in far N. Dallas - they may have told you wrong - because they definitely told me wrong - ( they looked at the tire and it said 42 max - so they said use 42 -  WRONG ).

I did some searching this morning & found a site that confirms my theories - with photos - I think you are over inflated ( what she said ) & it is a shaft drive !  Scott's K wore out the same way & he is always on edge !

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/tirewear/ (http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/tirewear/)

for what it's worth !  [moto]  [beer]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: cdc on January 17, 2009, 11:04:03 AM
Quote from: Cyclone on January 17, 2009, 09:00:33 AM
the cold tire pressures they tell one to use for:

Solo - is 32 PSI front;  36 PSI rear ( my standard setting )

Two Up - 36 PSI front;  39 PSI Rear ( my setting with Cyclonette )

Two up with 50 lbs luggage ( Max Gross vehicle weight )  36 PSI Front;  42 PSI Rear


Donald,

Not having this information, I assumed that Wil's tire pressures at 36/42 were the standard "solo" pressures which he stated as using under all circumstances.  If your tire pressures are applicable to the K bike then he is running higher pressures than appropriate when he is running without luggage.  That wears out the center stripe prematurely.  I agree with the hot starts, hard acceleration and sustained fast speeds over 100 MPH as contributing to premature center stripe tire wear.  Dual compound tires are said to offer more mileage by using a harder compound for the center stripe.

cdc
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Duc L'Smart on January 17, 2009, 11:05:42 AM
42 is the max pressure stated on the tire
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 18, 2009, 08:38:30 PM
Interesting stuff on the tire pressure discussion. We'll continue that later... I'm freakin' tired after a very active weekend. In the meantime here's some pics. Y'all really need to be ready for the next flash camping trip. I'm giving you plenty of notice.  [laugh]  All these were shot with that little Lumix I mentioned in another thread.



(http://pixl8.smugmug.com/photos/457365362_GnnWG-M.jpg)
Brains for desert





(http://pixl8.smugmug.com/photos/457365569_NKXQu-M.jpg)

(http://pixl8.smugmug.com/photos/457368448_rf4V6-M.jpg)
Frozen morning





(http://pixl8.smugmug.com/photos/457367039_Sm8e4-M.jpg)
Colorado River






Here's a link (http://pixl8.smugmug.com/gallery/7131469_mXsNX#457364396_DK3YF) to the rest



Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: cdc on January 18, 2009, 08:56:59 PM
Was that frost on the bike?  Brrr.  Glad you made it home safe. 

BTW, what kind of mileage do you get on the Beemer?  Were you knider on your rear tire this time?  ;D

cdc
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: RED on January 18, 2009, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: dallas2r on January 16, 2009, 10:29:53 PM
To tell you the truth, I haven't given it much thought until now. 42 already seams pretty high to me so it worries me to push it any further and possibly lose out on surface contact. I really don't think it's anything I can avoid. It's a heavy bike at about 540lbs wet. Add maybe 50lbs of luggage to that with a heavy throttle hand pushing 167bhp and it's probably to be expected. I know what to expect now and can adjust accordingly.

The tire was a Diablo Supersport Street. Cycle gear had the set on sale for $190 just before Christmas so I decided to give them a shot. The front is still in good shape, so I went with another Supersport Street just on the rear. I've heard good things about the Pilot Road 2's so I'll try those out next change.



Presently I'm on Pilot Road's. I have never had a problem nor can I tell much wear either. I go hard and stop hard lots and it stands up well. I'd have a tough time switching. They stick really well on tight corners unless the pavement is cold or wet or both then you get a little side step but corrects quickly and moves on.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Ronr on January 18, 2009, 09:44:49 PM
So you went down there with your bicycle strapped to your BWM??  How is that even possible?!!  Pictures of that rig would be really good.  The camping looks pretty cool, love the pics! [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 19, 2009, 07:51:44 AM
Quote from: Ronr on January 18, 2009, 09:44:49 PM
So you went down there with your bicycle strapped to your BWM??  How is that even possible?!!  Pictures of that rig would be really good.  The camping looks pretty cool, love the pics! [thumbsup]

Thanks R2.

A buddy of mine took my bicycle down in his truck for me. I'd like to get an adapter for my Ducati rack so I can use them on both motos. The company's (http://www.cafemotos.com/johnnyrack/Enter.html) on hiatus right now while they re-tool due to high demand.

I've really enjoyed the two camping trips I've done so far. Both times I've learned something new and felt more confident about venturing out further. I think I spent $60 total for 2 days of travel (450 miles), including fuel, food and camping fees. Extrapolate that out over a long trip and it becomes an inexpensive and fulfilling way to travel. The freedom to go anywhere and do whatever I want is amazing!


@ 350 miles a day:
------------------------------------------
Fuel = $20
Food = $20
Camping fee = $15
Amortized Tires = $20
Amortized Bike Maintenance = $40
-------------------------------------------
$115 per day



Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: Cyclone on January 19, 2009, 08:02:03 AM
 [thumbsup] So how did you do on your bike race ?  Burn up any tires there ?  There is something deja' vu about this tire discussion anyway.  :)

Flash camping - definitely a possibility sometime !  [bacon]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 19, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
Quote from: Cyclone on January 19, 2009, 08:02:03 AM
[thumbsup] So how did you do on your bike race ?  Burn up any tires there ?  There is something deja' vu about this tire discussion anyway.  :)

meh.  funky morning.  got there late (15 minutes before my race) so by the time I got checked in, changed, and pinned numbers on my jersey, they were already starting. Seriously... walked out of the bathroom with my leathers in hand and they blew the whistle. Gave my stuff to my buddys wife, grabbed one of my two water bottles in my bag, and jumped on the bike. No warmup after 3 hours of a cold early morning ride from Dallas was brutal on my muscles as I struggled to catch the group. I caught up and held a good position with the lead group for the first 30 miles but eventually ran out of gas and struggled to keep the cramps away from lack of hydration. The field of 60+ riders splintered early on from a wreck that happened right in front of me that took out about 5 guys. I navigated through that and caught the lead group as we hammered it to create a gap that was never closed. I ended up finishing the last of that group but ahead of the rest of the field. Results aren't posted yet, but I figure I finished 20-25 out of 60+. I'm cool with that considering the way the morning went.  [thumbsup]


Quote from: Cyclone on January 19, 2009, 08:02:03 AM
Flash camping - definitely a possibility sometime !  [bacon]

Sweet! Solo trips are good sometimes, but it's always better with company.  [thumbsup] [moto]
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: TresGatos on January 19, 2009, 11:04:37 AM
Sounds like you did very well, Will. [thumbsup]

Wondered if you take electrolyte suplements before you ride, or if diet covers that.

Also, I got the pic taken at the Warehome yesterday, I owe ya $.
Title: Re: Flash camping trip 1/17 - 1/18
Post by: dallas2r on January 19, 2009, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: TresGatos on January 19, 2009, 11:04:37 AM
Sounds like you did very well, Will. [thumbsup]

Wondered if you take electrolyte suplements before you ride, or if diet covers that.

Also, I got the pic taken at the Warehome yesterday, I owe ya $.

Thanks Dan. Sometimes I do take electrolyte supplements when it's really hot and I know I'll be losing a lot of liquids. They help a lot with staving off cramps.

Feel free to use the link in my signature to make a donation, otherwise a check or cash next time we meet will work. Thank You!  [thumbsup] [beer]