Anybody going to the June 2 Boston Moto trackday?
I wish i was.
Quote from: red duke on May 29, 2009, 05:52:18 PM
Anybody going to the June 2 Boston Moto trackday?
Not me...
I expect it to be kinda...
racer oriented.
Quote from: ducpainter on May 29, 2009, 09:24:38 PM
Not me...
I expect it to be kinda...
racer oriented.
I suspect you are correct. I also heard it's very bare bones. No refreshments, instruction, etc.
FYI, Boston Moto is run by ScottyDucati who is a "member" here. I put the member part in quotes because I can't remember when the last time he posted here. But then again I haven't been very active lately either so I may have missed it.
Quote from: Monstermash on May 31, 2009, 11:03:04 AM
I suspect you are correct. I also heard it's very bare bones. No refreshments, instruction, etc.
FYI, Boston Moto is run by ScottyDucati who is a "member" here. I put the member part in quotes because I can't remember when the last time he posted here. But then again I haven't been very active lately either so I may have missed it.
The track part of the operation seems to be run by Dennis, one of the partners.
I know Scottie pretty well.
Quote from: ducpainter on May 31, 2009, 01:12:19 PM
I know Scottie pretty well.
I'm sorry to hear that.... [laugh]
Quote from: Monstermash on May 31, 2009, 02:09:19 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.... [laugh]
I actually like him... ;D
Dennis....
never met...
can't say the same.
Quote from: The Architect on May 29, 2009, 05:52:18 PM
Anybody going to the June 2 Boston Moto trackday?
Nope ... I may go to one or two of the Fishtail days though.
Or,
CORNERSPIN [evil] [evil] [evil]
Adam
Quote from: ducpainter on May 31, 2009, 06:08:37 PM
I actually like him... ;D
Dennis....
never met...
can't say the same.
Denno, Degsy, and Quentin are good guys, I believe the whole BM gang is running the Track Days ... Definitely a bare bones, stripped down track day experience designed for the most track time you can handle in a day. They also have a " intro to trackdays " package or something similar that includes lunch and a few other things, but it's $275 ...
Adam
Despite the temptation to do otherwise, I'll keep the personal-attacks out of this (hey, maybe I'm turning over a new leaf!)... and in an effort to provide some independent feedback, especially feedback exemplary of how we are absolutely in no-means "racer oriented"... I've included some reviews that were independently posted on the New England Street Riders Forum, as well as Triumph675.net... even with links so you can check em out yourself! Before I get into that, I'd like to explain our philosophy that has been grossly misinterpreted as "racer oriented." We have three groups like typical trackday organizations. Here's a run-down of each:
Advanced Group:
- The *only* "racer oriented" group, although by no means comprised of even a majority of racers.
- Riders are expected to be experienced at fast-paced track racing.
- There are no passing restrictions, except that 6-feet of space must be maintained between the rider being overtaken and the rider initiating the pass. This rule is strictly enforced.
- 2 laps of follow the leader in the first session, to demonstrate proper pit-in, and pit-out procedures. After which, go have some fun!
- 2-wheels on the ground at all times.
- 2 strikes and you're done.
** Basic rule of thumb, you've done many trackdays and have lots of track seat time. Instruction is available upon request, otherwise, go out, twist the throttle, have some fun, and above all... ride smart.
Intermediate Group:
- Riders are expected to be experienced track-day riders, as well as some novice racers looking for extra seat time.
- No inside passing, 6 foot rule is also maintained.
- 2 laps of follow the leader in the first session, to demonstrate proper pit-in, and pit-out procedures. After which, go have some fun!
- All Advanced Group Rules Apply, including instruction available upon request.
** Basic rule of thumb, you're experienced enough to circulate the track on your own, and you want to get some track time, have some fun, and work on your lines or developing your skills. Again, instruction *IS AVAILABLE* (and encouraged) but we do not force-feed classroom sessions down your throat.... our philosophy and motto is "Track Time - Period." We'll do everything we can to maximize your track time while maintaining safety.
Novice Group:
- Riders are expected to have on-track experience. Mostly track day riders who have done a few trackdays, or riders who just want to enjoy some low-pressure track time and want a slow and relaxed session to ride in.
- No inside passing, 6 foot rule is also maintained.
- Full session of follow the leader, also demonstrating proper pit-in, and pit-out. All prior group rules also apply.
** Basic rule of thumb, you're getting your feet wet in track days, we'll run a few follow the leader sessions to help get you back in the groove, demonstrate the proper line, and get your head back into track riding. Instruction is available upon request as well, but again... Track Time - Period. You've got the basics down, and just want to get some experience under your belt.
Generally speaking, we decided there was a market for specialized instruction, and wanted to stay true to our Track Time - Period. philosophy. So we created a special, LIMITED attendance group called "Intro to Track Riding." This group was initially created for the "never-ever" done a track day customer, but we have found that even experienced track-day riders who are still starting out (some Novice racers have taken this course) are signing up looking for the extra mile in customer service, and a LOW coach to rider ratio (1:2). Since we've had a few non-"never-ever" riders sign up for this program and enjoy it, look for a similar specialized program with some tweaks and different perks, for the intermediate rider or novice racer, looking to make the jump from a relatively new track rider to experienced rider, and wants to get the same personalized attention and extremely low coach to rider attention that nobody else can match.
Here are the highlights of the program:
Program Includes:
Consierge Service - When you show up at the track, we will show you to your specific garage area, and assist unloading your bike, setting up gear, filling out your waiver and forms, as well as an in-garage tech inspection of your gear and motorcycle.
Lunch from a local pizza / sub shop
1:2 Coach to Rider Ratio, including an in-depth description of the facility (track layout, bathrooms, office, first aid, spectator areas, photographer, etc.), and an overview of the day's schedule so times and procedures are well understood and clear!
Materials detailing all of the above, for you to reference later
Your on-track day will include an on-track orientation, a slow paced follow the leader session with your coach (remember: only TWO riders per coach!) as well as regular on-track coaching sessions throughout the day. Each 40 minute off-track break will feature available classroom sessions with slides, video and individual critique and suggestions for improvement. At the end of the day, the staff will discuss how you thought your first day went, as well as help pack up your bike and your gear, followed by a group photo of all Intro-Program participants and coaches.
We'll also send you off with a goody bag that includes:
* Boston Moto T-Shirt
* Boston Moto Hat
* On-board video of your first trackday!
* Decals and stickers
* Special souvenir from your day
* $25 Boston Moto gift certificate for your next trackday with us!
Hopefully that helps define some of what our trackdays are all about!!! Now here's reviews from two riders, one a "never-ever" trackday guy and one novice racer, both of whom took our Intro program on June 2nd, the day the program debuted.
Dan (the never-ever guy), link is here http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/boston-moto-track-days/47588-wow-what-day.html (http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/boston-moto-track-days/47588-wow-what-day.html).
Well I finally did it, after preparing for almost a year (needed gear and pirelli tires) I did my first trackday. I will say this, I was NOT out there to be a racer i just wanted to learn the right way to ride in a controlled enviroment and boy did I ever get my learn on.
I needed some new tires on my bike (DCIIIs) and Degsy helped me installing them and I cant thank him enuff he even nice enuff to come to my house, if he was willing to go the extra mile to do that I KNEW that my first trackday was going to be awesome.
I wanted to make sure I was going to get the absolute most out of this experience so I did the "Intro To Trackday" program. I was very nervous about all the particulars involved in doing a trackday but with this program everything is done for you. When I arrived everyone was very friendly and introduced themselves and helped me unload my bike (thank you) and unload my gear. I was very nervous having no idea what to expect but the fact everyone was so easy to talk to deffinatly helped me get situated.
Because I did the into to TD there was one control rider/instructor to 2 bikes but because Dan K was too fast that left me alone with Degsy for the day which was great. We had a riders metting then the faster guys left to get geared up while we stayed back for further instruction. They asked us what we wanted to work on my main goal was being comfortable in the corners and learning the correct way to ride. They sent us to get ready now let me say this once the gear went on holy shit was I wired!! Our first time on the track was an amazing experience I cant describe the feeling but someone said it best it is fear excitement and joy balled up into one emotion and that was just going over pitting in and out!!
Once we finished that out on track we went with follow the leader to learn the track. Now I have to be honest i was completly overwhealmed there was so much going on but having everyone so willing to help deffinatly got me going in the right direction. I basically followed Degsy around the track trying to look through the turns and learn the line, I liked that everything was done in stages once I got the hang of one thing another was introduced. The sessions went very fast I cant believe I was out there for 20 minutes. Once we got off the track me and Degsy went over some things to work for the next session.
Each session things where slowing down for me I was able to understand everything that was going on around me with all the help I was getting from everyone it all started to make sense. CEO was nice enuff to follow my slow ass around the track and noticed my vulcan death grip on the bars and showed me some tricks to help me relax and that is when things became more interesting. I never knew that was bad so I now had to try and learn the right way. I have to be honest I was not confident enuff to ride alone I felt better following Degsy and using him as a gauge to where I needed to work on things. Before I knew it, it was lunch which was proivided in the intro program. A few classroom sessions in between where we worked on body postioning by sitting on a bike to help with muscle memory and the day was almost over. I knew I was mentally and physically drained so i sat out sessions but I knew if I went out there in a fog I might hurt myself and my main goal was not to extend myself and risk injury.
I learned so much I cant thank everyone enuff, I gotta be honest I cant remember everyone's names but I remember all the advice and help I recieved. I know I am better rider now and feel more confident on the street. My new DCIIs worked awesome and never missed a beat. I am SO glad I did the intro to TD cause I cant imagine not having the help I recieved.
If anyone wants to do a TD do the intro program it takes the guess work out of it. All you have to do is listen and ride they do the rest!
Also named Dan (novice racer), the link is here: http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/boston-moto-track-days/47551-bm-june-2nd-td-thank-you-novel-you-ve-been-warned.html (http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/boston-moto-track-days/47551-bm-june-2nd-td-thank-you-novel-you-ve-been-warned.html)
Did my first TD with Boston Moto yesterday. It was awesome! I’ve raced a couple weekends but had never done a TD, so I was in the “intro to TD’s†package. Came with a cool BM shirt and hat, coffee, muffins, etc. Also included was loading and unloading your bike. I helped, but the BM staff certainly made it a lot easier.
Started out in the Nov group, but the pace ended up being a bit slow so I bumped up to intermediate. Got in plenty of track time, and had some really good help from some of the control riders. I’ve gotta throw out a special thanks to Bergs & A13X for the help on the track, showing me their lines, etc. I made some serious progress in the bowl (thanks Alex!) and through T12, which has been a serious weak spot for me. Exiting that chicane went from a train wreck to dragging my knee, and as a result I’m able to use 5th gear on the straight. Got to work on some passing, which I really needed work on. I didn’t have a timer, but I feel like I definitely got faster, which was my goal.
Scottie Ducati was the man with the suspension know-how, and he worked some serious magic on my bike. I’d been going through 3 dragging my toe slider and knee, with the back end of the bike loose. This was causing me to have to modulate the rear with the throttle, so I wasn’t going as fast as I could have been. Scottie put an insane amount of change into my shock (6 clicks & 4 clicks, I forget which was rebound and which was compression) and gave me some pointers on what to tear apart and grease in the future. After he worked his magic the bike was planted through 3 (when the tires were warm, anyway, more on that later), letting me stay on the throttle harder through the turn. I feel like I’m just as far off the bike and I’m actually going faster, but I’m no longer dragging anything, I guess the bike is sitting a touch higher now? Anyway, it feels great and is faster, I’m thrilled.
Sometime after lunch I went out and found myself on a full grid. Excited about the chance to work on some more passing, I lined up at the back of the longest line. Going through the chicanes I picked my first target, and the likely second. I decided to take the first going through 3/4. He pulled away a bit on the straight into 3, but braked a bit early and not as hard as me, so I had no problem coming around him on the outside as he turned in. I turned in outside him, came off the brakes, got into the throttle, hit the transition and found myself sliding down the track on my back. I remembered my tires were still cold before I even stopped sliding, which was still a couple seconds too late. Damnit! Patted the ground to see if I was still moving, turns out I was. Whoops. I think that’s what turned my slide into a roll, maybe it was turning my head to see if I was about to get run over since I thought I was done sliding and wanted to see if it was OK to get up, but it was still a hell of a lot better than if I tried to get up. I’m officially a fan of the “pat the ground to make sure you’re done moving before you try to get up†rule. Finally came to a stop, looked around, realized I was not about to get run over, threw a thumbs up and got up to go after my bike, which was in the tires. Bergs was already in the beach on his way to help me (thanks Bergs!). I couldn’t lift the bike alone, but with the help of Bergs (after he made sure I was OK, something he made damn sure of) we got it up and through the 3/10 split. It all happened fast enough that they were able to yellow flag the session rather than red flag it, which was cool. I didn’t want things red-flagged on account of my own stupidity. I assured a couple other people, including CEO and Bergs again, that I was indeed OK. My bike had a broken brake lever, and there were concerns of it leaking fluid, so CEO took it back in and had me bring his bike back in. That few seconds reminded me of how much I love the R6, and clinched my desire for GP shift on my Ex. Got back into the pits, got a new brake lever, fixed my throttle which was no longer snapping back, and was re-teched in no time at all. Didn’t even miss a session.
My next session I took it easy for 3 or 4 laps, wanting to be damn sure I had some heat in the tires. I wasn’t willing to make the same mistake twice in a row, and I’m used to riding with warmers. After that I got myself back up to pace.
Last session out I was back on pace, and only taking 2 laps to get back to pace. I didn’t want to let my tire heat concerns mean I was riding easy for the first 3 or 4 laps in the future, so I got after it right after lap 2. In retrospect I don’t think I’ll ride without warmers again, so it was somewhat pointless, but I got my confidence back up and got back to pace, which was all I was trying to do at that point.
I couldn’t thank everyone if I tried, too many people helped make this a great day. All the Boston Moto crew, you created an awesome day. I heard from some of the other intro guys that just having you load the bike at the end of the day for them was worth the extra $ for the intro program. Everyone that worked with me to help me find some more fast, thanks.
Bergs, you were a huge help. Your lines were cool, your critique in the pits gave me good stuff to work on, and following you was a blast. Following you is what let me get some decent drive out of 12 and get my knee down in there. Thanks again for the help with that tramper.
Alex, you too man. Love your line through 6. Wish I’d spent more time working with you, I’d have loved to have heard what else you had to say about my riding/lines/etc after you followed me for those three laps before coming around me into the chicane. I know you had to go back out, no big deal, but I was getting a lot out of what you were telling me. I eased up in 9 to work on 10 like you suggested, and that worked. I think I’ve got the seat completely unweighted through there like I do the other turns now, due in part to thinking about it and in part to not blowing my approach by working too hard on 9.
Chris, you were really helpful. Wish I’d gotten to ride with you more. Just getting on your R6 made me miss mine, and it clinched the deal - I need to GP shift that EX. Fortunately, from what I hear, it’s just a matter of swapping a shifter.
Scottie, you made me faster through T3 without even seeing me ride, rock on man. That shock makes it feel like a different bike. It sort of feels slower because I’m not dragging a knee through there anymore, but I know it’s faster, I’m coming in at the same speed and getting on the throttle harder.
Kitt, thanks for the help with everything, including the ride, even though I ended up working it out from NH. Glad I was able to save you the detour of getting off the highway, you had a long drive in front of you.
Arcy, good to see you again. I’m thinking it might be a good thing you hit the head when you did
Also gotta say thanks to S&C, even though I don’t think Miles posted here. If he didn’t have that lever my day would have ended early.
Sucks I need to replace the helmet, I don’t feel like I hit it hard enough to scrap it, but it’s got scrapes that I don’t think will get through LRRS tech. So, now it’s time to get another helmet, get back out there for the classic to see how all the stuff I learned translates into racing.
Thanks again guys. I’d recommend this day to anyone, and in fact plan on doing so. You all kicked ass yesterday.
If anyone has any questions regarding our trackdays, philosophy, or anything else whatsoever, please feel free to visit our website: http://bostonmoto.com (http://bostonmoto.com) or email me personally at scott@bostonmoto.com (general inquiries: trackdays@bostonmoto.com)
I'm curious, who is doing the instruction?
If anyone has any questions regarding our trackdays, philosophy, or anything else whatsoever, please feel free to visit our website: http://bostonmoto.com (http://bostonmoto.com) or email me personally at scott@bostonmoto.com (general inquiries: trackdays@bostonmoto.com) [bang]
Primary Instructors for our ITR Program:
Derek (MA Lead MSF RiderCoach, Former core TTD Instructor, General go-fast Guru [running 1:16 lap times in 2004 prior to retirement from road racing...] you will be hard-pressed to find a more respected or well-liked guy around the track.) [bow_down]
"DucDave" Michaud (Experienced Track Day Junkie and frequent tour-guide, leads Seacoast Sport Cycle Rides, 20+ years motorcycling experience and 10+ trackdays / year average for the past 7 years, Dave is our ITR Program Director and has developed much of the content) [wine]
John Rossi (Founder, http://vivaducati.com/ (http://vivaducati.com/)- 33 years riding experience, 15 years on-track, 3-years as Penguin School Instructor) [moto]
Alex Dunstan (Expert Licensed Racer, former PR Directer - Ducati US, current PR Director for MJ Motorsports Suzuki AMA Team, 3+ years instructing for various trackday orgs from New England to California, and all around go-fast motard guy) [thumbsup]
Intermediate and Advanced Instructors include:
Scott (me) - (Expert Licensed Racer, 9+ years race / track experience, 2003 LRRS Junior Achievement Award, instructor with Seacoast Ducati Trackdays)
Dennis (2008 LRRS Vanson Rookie of the Year Winner, Expert Licensed Racer, runs 1:17's at NHMS)
Kitt - Expert Licensed Racer, consistently runs 1:16's at NHMS
We also rotate a platoon of "Control Riders" largely comprised of Amateur and Expert Racers, the vast majority of whom run sub 1:20 lap times at Loudon., however our CRs were NOT chosen for their ability to ride fast, but for their ability to interface with customers and their high level of character, friendliness, and general word-of-mouth recommendation as quality people. A control rider is responsible for observing on-track conditions and maintaining safety. Each year we solicit applications for Control Riders, as they are customers, friends, etc. and it's our way of giving back to responsible riders and enthusiasts who demonstrate the aforementioned qualities our customers expect and demand both on track and in the pits.
Quote from: Monstermash on June 05, 2009, 03:30:09 PM
I'm curious, who is doing the instruction?
[thumbsup] ScottieDucati taught me how to ride. It may have been thought impossible at the time. Boy was he patient.
Although I don't think he will be pushing any newbs around the track because they are afraid of holding up the bike by themselves as he did with me ;D
Seriously though, he's a really great and naturally gifted instructor.
Scott -
Great to hear. Since the bulk of your posts here are around promoting your business, you may want to consider a vendor (or minor sponsor or whatever its called :) ) spot on the DMF for BM. Might be very helpful for sharing info, track day pix, signups, etc. [thumbsup]
Cheers,
Adam
I was in the intermediate group. I had a good time and will probably do another day with them. It is about track time. The groups are small. I think the group was about 20 people. You just have to bring your lunch.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/3601514867_21d3326ba9_o.jpg)
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 05, 2009, 03:22:44 PM
Despite the temptation to do otherwise, I'll keep the personal-attacks out of this (hey, maybe I'm turning over a new leaf!)...
<snip>
Why would you feel threatened enough to retaliate to something that doesn't exist?
Personal attacks? [roll]
BTW...
I'm not responding on
your site.
I wanted to sign up for a day or two but the dates don't fit into my schedule. I find the NESR site hilarious. I'd say that 99% of the people on there are ball busters ... in a good way. [cheeky] Humor is not lacking there.
You did a DTE package correct? How'd you like the DCIII's?
Quote from: The Architect on June 06, 2009, 06:20:19 PM
I was in the intermediate group. I had a good time and will probably do another day with them. It is about track time. The groups are small. I think the group was about 20 people. You just have to bring your lunch.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/3601514867_21d3326ba9_o.jpg)
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 05, 2009, 04:16:22 PM
If anyone has any questions regarding our trackdays, philosophy, or anything else whatsoever, please feel free to visit our website: http://bostonmoto.com (http://bostonmoto.com) or email me personally at scott@bostonmoto.com (general inquiries: trackdays@bostonmoto.com) [bang]
Scottie -
I would recommend clicking the "Notify" button at the bottom of the page so you can be alerted in real time of any impending doom and gloom / questions / personal attacks / nonsensical banter / etc. [bacon]
Cheers,
Adam
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 08, 2009, 07:26:13 AM
You did a DTE package correct? How'd you like the DCIII's?
They were great! But that's coming from a guy that was on old michelin pilot roads. I would use them again especially when you throw in an affordable trackday.
I have to work on the front tire pressure. Under very hard breaking (like just before turn one) the front was a little squirmy but at no time did it make me feel uncomfortable.
Tire pressures should be 34f, 36 rear. Where were you at? A good idea is to always double-check your gauge as well... we consistently see riders with tire pressure gauges reading +/- 3 psi from our calibrated gauge.
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 08, 2009, 08:41:27 AM
Tire pressures should be 36f, 34 rear. Where were you at? A good idea is to always double-check your gauge as well... we consistently see riders with tire pressure gauges reading +/- 3 psi from our calibrated gauge.
33 front and rear.
There you go then... 3 psi low right off the bat.... try 34 front next time and definitely let me know how it feels...
Quote from: The Architect on June 08, 2009, 06:18:50 PM
33 front and rear.
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 08, 2009, 08:41:27 AM
Tire pressures should be 36f, 34 rear. Where were you at? A good idea is to always double-check your gauge as well... we consistently see riders with tire pressure gauges reading +/- 3 psi from our calibrated gauge.
"tire pressures" or "your tire pressures"??
Each bike is different and thus should be running different pressures. Are you basing your suggestion on his specific bike and tires? At my last track day Bruce Myers suggested 32f and 30r.
But who knows, maybe your right. [cheeky]
Well, he's on Pirelli Diablo Corsa IIIs so, by "tire pressures" I was referring to the DCIII tire.
While your concept is somewhat correct, you do not adjust tire pressures for a specific tire depending on the bike, tire, or rider. You measure tire pressures HOT, which removes variables such as different bikes, riders, track grip-levels, ambient and track temperatures, etc. Pressures vary solely on tire type.
For a Diablo Corsa III, pressures should be 34f, 36r, regardless of application... and should be taken HOT, which I did not point out (apologies).
If you have say, a fast rider on a heavy bike, he will see his gain in pressure from track use more significantly than a slower-rider on a lighter bike. Therefore, if you check your pressures hot at the END of a session, you know where your tires are at while you're on track and remove all variables mentioned above. The only difference between the two riders / applications will be where their pressures start cold.
Pirelli has some recommended cold pressures for various tires, but they're only that... a recommendation or guide. To achieve optimum performance, and longevity out of your tires (regardless of brand) you should always be taking hot pressures and go by manufacturer recommended pressures for your specific tire carcass and compound.
Example: DCIII = 34f, 36r. Diablo Supercorsa DOT Race Tire = 32-35 front and 28-30 rear.
Hot pressures for Pirelli's DOT race tires are given as ranges, as Pirellis feature a softer carcass than other tire brands, and offer the ability to "tune" the tire based on pressures. We find some riders perfer a softer feeling front tire and run 32 psi (hot), while a rider coming off a Dunlop for example may prefer to run 35 psi front to give them the feel of a stiffer carcass tire.
On the rear, the range of pressures you can run allows to tune for feel, but also provides for some control over tire life. We have some top-tier racers running hot pressures in the rear as low as 25 or 26 psi, which provides optimum grip over a sprint race. A track-day rider looking to get the most out of his tire, should be running the rear closer to 30 psi.
Again, those numbers above are for the Diablo Supercosa DOT tire, in a 120 series front and 180 series rear application ONLY. Slicks, Dragons, and different size tires (110 front, 190 rears) will have subtle changes.
And lastly, of course you should always check with your local tire professional for your specific application. I can only speak for Pirelli tires in this regard, and for the DCIII, the recommendation is very specific, largely because the dual compound rear tire's wear characteristics is very sensitive to pressures....
But then again.... what would I know....
Quote from: Monstermash on June 09, 2009, 08:54:05 AM
"tire pressures" or "your tire pressures"??
Each bike is different and thus should be running different pressures. Are you basing your suggestion on his specific bike and tires? At my last track day Bruce Myers suggested 32f and 30r.
But who knows, maybe your right. [cheeky]
*edit - my dislexia got the better of me.
Diablo Corsa III Recommended Pressures:
34 psi FRONT
36 psi REAR
I modified my prior postings to avoid confusion. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Monstermash on June 09, 2009, 08:54:05 AM
"tire pressures" or "your tire pressures"??
Each bike is different and thus should be running different pressures. Are you basing your suggestion on his specific bike and tires? At my last track day Bruce Myers suggested 32f and 30r.
But who knows, maybe your right. [cheeky]
Were Bruce's recommendations for Michelins?
My understanding is that different tire brands differ more than from bike to bike within the same brand of tire
I run 29/24 in Power Race PRC/PRE
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 09, 2009, 09:30:41 AM
You measure tire pressures HOT, which removes variables such as different bikes, riders, track grip-levels, ambient and track temperatures, etc.
33 was cold pressure. Next trackday I'll run the tires a little differently.
Or maybe I'll run a different bike!
Quote from: ducpainter on June 09, 2009, 10:32:03 AM
Were Bruce's recommendations for Michelins?
My understanding is that different tire brands differ more than from bike to bike within the same brand of tire
I run 29/24 in Power Race PRC/PRE
No I was running the Bridgestones that came on my Monster. I can't remember what the model numbers were, sorry.
Guys- An outstanding day.
Well worth it - Heaps of track time.
The entire crew very helpfull and the day was well run. There are more than enough staff to give you tips and pointers etc.
I'll be there for the July dates
Vin [thumbsup]
Vin -
Glad to hear it was a success! I will be doing some track days this year as well, likely at High Plains though ....8)
Cheers,
Adam
Vin,
Glad to have you man, now get that electrical issue sorted and you'll be full-tilt all day in July :D
Scottie
Quote from: Vin on June 18, 2009, 04:28:30 AM
Guys- An outstanding day.
Well worth it - Heaps of track time.
The entire crew very helpfull and the day was well run. There are more than enough staff to give you tips and pointers etc.
I'll be there for the July dates
Vin [thumbsup]
I'm sorry I missed this one. Hopefully I'll be back on two wheels soon. :'(
Mr Tull,
It would be great to see you out there.
And working on the tech issue as we speak. Should be better than ever for the Jul dates.
Vin
Status update Vin???
Quote from: Vin on June 18, 2009, 05:01:07 PM
Mr Tull,
It would be great to see you out there.
And working on the tech issue as we speak. Should be better than ever for the Jul dates.
Vin
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 30, 2009, 10:20:17 AM
Status update Vin???
I believe he has it back and has been busy pulling wheelies up and down storrow and doing burnouts
wait, i'm thinking of Q [evil]
but seriously, I think he's got it back [thumbsup]
Adam
That sounds like it could be just about any number of the local espresso hooligan contingent....
Quote from: ScottieDucati on June 30, 2009, 10:59:15 AM
That sounds like it could be just about any number of the local espresso hooligan contingent....
[evil] [evil] [evil] [evil]
BU-
RAAAAAAAAAAAP
oh i am back- down a Jeep but I am back.
looking for a 4x4 if anyone is selling.
mine swims with the fishes...
V
Disclaimer...this is just my opinion.
For the record...
when customers take out control riders...
the organization has a serious problem.
Scottie...
Eric has a...
broken rib...broken scapula.
Do you guys even care?
Take me off your list. >:(
I dont usually respond to remarks like this, but thats a personal dig.
Everybody cares - it sucks to see a friend go down.
Take it off line.
V.
Quote from: painter on July 15, 2009, 04:58:21 PM
Disclaimer...this is just my opinion.
For the record...
when customers take out control riders...
the organization has a serious problem.
Scottie...
Eric has a...
broken rib...broken scapula.
Do you guys even care?
Take me off your list. >:(
What the heck happened?!
I don't quite understand the logic behind that, at a trackday its the customers who generally lack experience, hence they're at a trackday looking to improve. Unfortunately, one of the least enjoyable parts of this business is seeing customers and friends make mistakes. I would have some serious concern if things were the other way around (if a control rider took out a customer, then the organization has a problem).
I just spoke with Eric, first and foremost he's (mostly) OK and should be back in the swing of things in a few weeks. Regarding what happened, he's obviously bummed out but ultimately feels the same way. Unfortunately, he got the short end of the stick when a less experienced rider and customer made one of those classic mis-judgments that we have all made. Faced with a decision of whether to complete the pass or not, he thought he had room to complete the pass. He was passing as per the Intermediate group rules (on the outside) and lost Eric in his field of vision and made the turn. The two lines intersected and well, you know the rest of the story.
The customer made a mistake, and apologized after the fact. In track riding, it will happen. What we hope for the future, is they learn and progress from such mistakes and improve as a rider. I also hope Eric a speedy recovery, and to have him back as he's been one of the best CRs we could ask for.
Did the customer ride the remainder of the day?
edit...
Quote from: ScottieDucati on July 16, 2009, 05:55:20 AM
<snip> Faced with a decision of whether to complete the pass or not, he thought he had room to complete the pass. He was passing as per the Intermediate group rules (on the outside) and lost Eric in his field of vision and made the turn. The two lines intersected and well, you know the rest of the story.
The customer made a mistake, and apologized after the fact. In track riding, it will happen. What we hope for the future, is they learn and progress from such mistakes and improve as a rider. I also hope Eric a speedy recovery, and to have him back as he's been one of the best CRs we could ask for.
But he broke the rules as he didn't maintain a 6 foot distance...
...and that stuff happens in
racing Scottie.
Wheels don't get taken in track riding....and you know it.
So I ask again...
what were the consequences for the "guy that made a mistake"?
BTW...sorry to hear about your mishap.
Nate,
Long story short; The rider was given a firm warning and closely monitored for the rest of the day.
Long story long; the rider wasn't sent packing, he is a frequent track rider with many laps under my supervision (both that day and others). I know from experience that he is very cautious with his passes. I was dumbfounded when I heard it was him. And I personally worked with him for most of the afternoon to ensure that he was being safe.
Eric's report on the incident made a large difference on the decision made.
we wish Eric a quick return to the track.
Q
Quote from: Qfactor on July 17, 2009, 12:48:38 PM
Nate,
Long story short; The rider was given a firm warning and closely monitored for the rest of the day.
Long story long; the rider wasn't sent packing, he is a frequent track rider with many laps under my supervision (both that day and others). I know from experience that he is very cautious with his passes. I was dumbfounded when I heard it was him. And I personally worked with him for most of the afternoon to ensure that he was being safe.
Eric's report on the incident made a large difference on the decision made.
we wish Eric a quick return to the track.
Q
Thanks Quentin.
I must have misunderstood Eric, or just plain was pissed that it happened and came to my own conclusions, or a combination of both. Eric is the nicest guy in the world, and probably my closest friend. I hope you and Scottie understand where I was coming from.
Personally, I would have escorted him to the gate, but that's me. An experienced rider should know better than to attempt that at a track day IMO, and if there should be any hard and fast policy, ejection from the event for taking a rider out should be one of them.
I wish Eric was still going to MI with me in 10 days. :-\
Nate
Sorry, I have to agree with Nate. If I was on the track the day it happened, it'd be either him or me. If he was still allowed on the track, I'd be out of there...
Quote from: ducpainter on July 17, 2009, 01:53:14 PM
Thanks Quentin.
I must have misunderstood Eric, or just plain was pissed that it happened and came to my own conclusions, or a combination of both. Eric is the nicest guy in the world, and probably my closest friend. I hope you and Scottie understand where I was coming from.
Personally, I would have escorted him to the gate, but that's me. An experienced rider should know better than to attempt that at a track day IMO, and if there should be any hard and fast policy, ejection from the event for taking a rider out should be one of them.
I wish Eric was still going to MI with me in 10 days. :-\
Nate
Eric is a great guy,,, best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Oz
Quote from: ozmanyyy on July 18, 2009, 09:41:54 AM
Eric is a great guy,,, best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Oz
+1
Adam
Quote from: NAKID on July 17, 2009, 04:06:55 PM
Sorry, I have to agree with Nate. If I was on the track the day it happened, it'd be either him or me. If he was still allowed on the track, I'd be out of there...
+1
It would make me very uncomfortable to be on a track with a school that allows people back on after they have taken out another rider (especially if the rider they took out was an instructor.)
I'm sorry you feel that way, it seemed like you had a good time at your first BM day, and we hope to have you back for more.
As it states in our rules, we have a 2-strike policy. One warning, if it happens again, you're done. Same rule applies to handlebars touching the ground. Unfortunately, nobody other than Eric and the rider involved knows what really happened, unless there's video that caught it that I'm unaware of. When I spoke to Eric, he was bummed and pissed at the fact that there was an incident at all, but was completely not indicating the other rider was a hazard or unsafe, he simply made a mistake. It's why we do trackdays, to learn, and to grow. We can only hope and strive to limit the mistakes and the consequences of them when at all possible.
The customer involved has been to several of our trackdays, and has never had a single incident in the past that I am aware of. I've personally ridden with him and he's a smooth and predictable rider. To throw him out simply because he made a mistake (when it appears that he likely thought he had already completed the pass long before the turn in point) and especially without witnessing the event itself, is a bit rash IMO.
Either way, we strive to put safety at the forefront of everything we do and for this to be the only two-bike incident this year that I'm aware of, is not a bad track-record, especially for a new organization that is still learning and growing. I'd like to keep it the only multi-bike incident this year.
Regardless of that, you have to maintain a separation between what *caused* the incident, and what resulted from it. Someone being injured holds zero bearing on the ability of the other rider being able to ratchet it back and ride safe for the rest of the day. I know the customer knew he had made a mistake and felt worse than anyone else (except maybe Eric himself). I don't see the outcome of what happened as justification for tossing someone out who has proven a safe and predictable rider at multiple outings with us. I'd like to think that Eric feels the same way, and would want the customer to remain on the track and apply the lesson he just learned in order to become a more experienced, and safer rider. And yes, mistakes DO happen, both at trackdays AND in racing. In fact, they happen on the street too. I'd rather it happens on the track than on the street, that's the entire point of trackdays in the first place.
For the record, if the situation would have been differently... If it were a rider identified as erratic and if we had spoke to him about his riding being a potential hazard then we would have a different story. Verbal warning counts as your first strike. This was not the case. The rider involved is an upper-level intermediate rider with 5+ trackdays this year under his belt, and no other incidents in that time table. Unfortunately, circumstances added up to a poor time to make a mistake and there were consequences as a result. I wish there *was* an easy flaw in rules, policy, or what have you that could fix such things from ever happening, but unfortunately the dangers inherent in our sport are just that. Otherwise, we'd all be sitting on the couch on sunny days.
Scottie, thanks for the response. I did have a good time and felt comfortable while there.
I understand the two strike policy. I've seen some very experienced riders make mistakes on the track and later apologize for it in the garage. One minor mistake is not a reason for someone to lose the rest of the track day.
But taking down another rider should maybe be addressed differently. In this case you knew the rider, his history and abilities and made a judgement call.
I understand the risk I take everytime I go on the track. And I appreciate anything the school can do to weed out or control the high risk riders. I'd rather be on the track than on a couch.
edit: spell check