So i've been struggling with my leaning, but after seeing a video where the camera was mounted on the back of the bike showing the riders bum, i saw how often he shifted his weight around, and that is something i have not done (i was relying on counter steering only).Once i started doing it - it all started to come together, my turns got faster and cleaner.
just felt like sharing.
Breakthroughs increases the value of riding [moto]
Curious - do you/did you point your torso and head through the turn?
If I forget, I struggle.
I haven't done much ass-moving yet, don't have to or don't dare with slippery non-leather pants. (tank pads coming)
Complementing on moving one's rear is to also move ones head. You can use the rear view mirrors as a visual gauge that you've shifted your upper body. Sometime you will see folks (who first start to move their rear) move their rear, but either keep their head at center, or worse, opposite to their rear minimizing or negating the benefit of moving one's rear.
Quote from: CDawg on July 19, 2009, 03:38:03 PM
Sometime you will see folks (who first start to move their rear) move their rear, but either keep their head at center, or worse, opposite to their rear minimizing or negating the benefit of moving one's rear.
+1
I did that for a while but once I got it right, turning is even more fun than before. Have not done it but I hear a track day or cornering school will do wonders that translate directly to normal street riding, i.e. safer, more controlled turns
try to touch your inside hand with your chin and youll see how much the bike responds.
Whenever I shift my butt over for leaning, I try to move my body and head over as well. I imagine moving my head over to the side so I can look at myself in the bar end mirror.
Congrats. Starting to shift your weight around is a big breakthrough. [thumbsup]
Like others have said, it's not all about the ass. I learned bad habits early because people kept saying that you should get your butt off the seat. Now I often revert to riding crossed up (butt off the bike more than my head and torso). What I wish people had emphasized was to move my whole body--not just my butt--off the centerline of the bike and forward. If you trace a line through your head and down your spine, it should be parallel to the centerline of the bike. You do not want just your butt hanging off the bike with your torso square in the middle.
To get your body position right from the start, break it down into a few movements. It'll be more fluid as time goes on, but for now, focusing on discreet movements will help. As you approach a turn,
(1) slide your inner knee forward along the frame while you shift your butt off the seat .
(2) Drop your inner shoulder into the turn and forward.
(2a) Imagine your spine being parallel to the centerline of the bike.
(3) Move your head down and inside while opening up your chest (twist your inner shoulder a bit), like you're trying to kiss your knuckles. Look through the turn.
Most people starting to "hang off" only do (1). As they learn to "hang off" more and more, they just do more (1), followed by even more (1). Work on the other steps and you'll find the cornering even more comfortable. In particular, step (3) slows everything down a lot. It makes carrying speed through a turn MUCH less scary. G'luck.
I find hanging off the bike exceedingly more safe, comfortable, and confidence-generating than staying planted on the seat. For the record, the same cannot be true of hanging off incorrectly, which felt awful and terrifying.
Lee Parks' Total Control ARC was my transformation point. Can't recommend it enough.
Specifically, the key for me was to consciously rotate my hips toward the inside of the turn. When you get "crossed up", it's because your hips are either facing forward, or are rotated the wrong way.
after street riding for almost 20 years now I am learning slowly to do it right. new tricks for middle-aged dog.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/grumpylawyer/VIRducatijuly09002.jpg?t=1248223459)
^^^Looks pretty good Statler [thumbsup]
Spidey, when you say to move your inside knee forward, doesn't that keep your hips closed? That's the biggest prob I'm having right now: opening the hips.
Quote from: swampduc on July 21, 2009, 05:58:04 PM
Spidey, when you say to move your inside knee forward, doesn't that keep your hips closed? That's the biggest prob I'm having right now: opening the hips.
Yeah, it does. I was going for simple directions for someone who just started shifting their weight off. I figure it's better to learn to get your weight forward (the knee thing helps a lot with that) and then later learn to really open up your hips. The "open your hips" thing falls somewhere around (2) or (2a), but I didn't want to add too many steps.
Statler,nice form, [thumbsup] that's actually how i do it on turns :-)
When you're starting to really shift your weight around, remember this:
Chin first, butt second.
You'll know when you've got it right.
Another eye-opener for me was at the Total Control class when they grab your bike (stationary), with you on it, and get you into the right position and actually lean the bike over. If you're doing it correctly it feels like you can take your hands off the bars and still be comfortable. If you are physically uncomfortable, you're not doing it right.
With everything being said in this thread, does this look weird to you?
(http://www.buell.com/_media/images/bikes/blast/gallery/regular/wallpaper_blast_5.jpg)
he's probably trying to look around the corner
Leaning the bike (for no reason), but resisting with the upper body and probably struggling with bar input? My guess...
The head is doing the opposite of "point and shoot" - again probably resisting...
I'm not an expert (may be right, may be wrong), but I learn by analyzing - I do this all day long as a personal trainer.
If it's you in the picture I hope I haven't offended you, it's just so motivating to learn and I hope you feel the same way.
He is on a Buell...first problem ;D. Getting all crossed-up like that is going to result in having to lean the bike to far. I also don't worry about keeping my head aligned with horizon..it puts a little bit strain and I've noticed that I make an unnecessary input.
Important note:
When you first start hanging off correctly, your bike will turn WAY sharper and faster than you may be used to.
You should actually be careful not to run off the INSIDE of the turn. [laugh]
The more weight you get to the inside of the turn, the less the bike has to lean. I've also found the lower you get the weight the less the bike leans, therefore the faster you can go around the turn. This is the principle behind the "get your chin forward and low" that's been mentioned. +1
Someone posted a good video on this, trying to find it:
Also if your torso if off furthest pointing where you want to go, your knee is out the furthest and in the best position to drag.
If your butt is out furthest, it pulls your knee back and makes it a bit awkward to drag as well as making you more vulnerable to falling off the bike.
Test in while on a bike stand.
Desmostro: I think this is it (?) Very, very, very good information - for me it is, anyway...
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14555.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14555.0)
Another post which also discusses the same issues http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24263.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24263.0)
Quote from: Goat_Herder on July 24, 2009, 07:46:59 AM
(http://www.buell.com/_media/images/bikes/blast/gallery/regular/wallpaper_blast_5.jpg)
This pic was taken from the Buell official website (not that I am considering Buell motorcycle). Just seems to me that the rider was trying awfully hard to lean the bike for no reason and his body was all crossed up. Since we were on the topic of proper body position for leaning, this would be the WHAT NOT TO DO pose. :)
He's probably an old dirt bike rider. I'll admit after going to street after 20+ years on dirt, I brought a lot of stupid techniquest that DEFINITELY do not transfer well! I remember kind of "throwing" the bike down into the turn while keeping my torso torqued. (hey, this could be bad for dirt too, for all I know!). I have enough humility to also admit of putting my inner foot down in a turn. That only took about 2 turns to drop that habit.
Good discussion. Thx for the input. Getting on my bike for some VERY late spring training tomorrow (track day in a week).
The idea behind moving around is to allow you to lean *less* at a given speed not more. What may be happening is that when you focus on repositioning your body, you might be subconsciously removing pressure from the bars. I find that every time a corner feels awkward, I realize I've been supporting myself with the bars. I tighten my core muscles and everything is easier, more stable, and way less scary.
An interesting sidenote on weight shifting... notice that the pros always shift their weight before leaning into the turn. You definitely want to be planted before leaning over.
Quote from: tristantumble on July 19, 2009, 03:09:16 PM
So i've been struggling with my leaning, but after seeing a video where the camera was mounted on the back of the bike showing the riders bum, i saw how often he shifted his weight around, and that is something i have not done (i was relying on counter steering only).Once i started doing it - it all started to come together, my turns got faster and cleaner.
just felt like sharing.
home dude realized there is a 90 degree left in front of him at 35 miles per hour and initiating to shift his weight with his face first?
When I first tried weight shifting, I did the crossed up thing too... Til I took a forum member's advice to use the dong to point in the direction of your turn.. [laugh] Works well, and the feeling I got was like I was body surfing over the asphalt... surreal. Funny thing is I realize why the whole chickenstrips thing is hilarious. When you do it right, (especially on the street) you dont scrub them off.. And if you are scrubbing them off and doing it right, its probably best that you get off the street and onto the track. I also learned that scooting slightly back so your outside shoulder comes forward and closer to the gascap works in getting the CG lower too. And I don't know if its a bad habit or not, but on transitions during braking and righting back up, I use my thighs to leverage my weight back over the tank on to the other side...