I'm a new rider as of last Friday. Like a male rabbit mistakingly placed with the females, after I straddled my Monster they had a hard time prying me off. Over the long weekend I logged about 18-20 hours of riding and about four tanks of fuel. Being a new rider and being without friends who ride I was a bit confused when some other riders would stick their hands down toward their bikes when they passed me. My first thought was that their seemingly self-referential gesture was similar to a friend telling another friend that their fly was down, or they had food on their face. Pulling over to the side I determined there was no mechanical problem with my Monster, nor was my fly down. After a few others passed by and made the same gesture I started returning it, not really understanding what I was doing but simply mimicking the Romans.
I began to understand that it was a recognition of sorts, of the fun but also the danger that you share with the similar experience. I felt happy to be a part of this so when I saw another rider, lacking the cool composure of other riders, I began excitedly thrusting my opened palm down and away from me with a straight face but a huge smile inside eagerly awaiting a salute in return. Within the first hour of the first ride on my bike, when the only fellow Monster I saw that weekend passed by, I instinctively sat upright on my bike, gushed a huge smile and waved exuberantly like a small child would wave while watching a parade. The older more experienced rider smiled back pleasantly, a bit amused at my gawking and returned my unrefined wave in a far more mature fashion. I instantly felt as if he were a good friend.
Over the next couple of days I realized that the salute isn't quite universal. Cruisers and sports bikes might not salute. Harleys in New Hampshire seldom returned my salute. BMW touring bikes saluted nobody. Although these observations seem to only be stereotypical (with the exception of the BMWs who might be the Siamese cats to which I'm a Dalmation) after feeling so thrilled at being welcomed into the family of riders with the tradition of this salute I was a bit disappointed to see this sort of overshadowing of clicks.
In the limited three days of riding I've had, I've been cut off by a short distance twice, had two cars invade my lane on the highway and push me off to the side, had a car quickly squeeze past me into a parking spot which I was backing my bike into and have been tailgated constantly. Wrapped into the wave for me along with the message, "Isn't this great," is the message, "I know your troubles."
I'm sure that most of you folks have been riding for a long time and maybe have had this discussion before but I'd like to hear what, if anything, the wave means to you guys or whatever other thoughts you might have about it.
While writing this post I've searched briefly about the subject and came up with these links which you might enjoy checking out.
This link has a nice little run down of five of the most common hand gestures the author recognizes (my wave to the fellow Monster was definitely style #5) :-[ ;D:
http://www.viewfromthecloud.com/2006/08/secret-motorcycle-hand-greetings.html (http://www.viewfromthecloud.com/2006/08/secret-motorcycle-hand-greetings.html)
This link describes a little more in depth the history of the wave and discusses a bit of the surrounding sociology. After the initial post are a few funny Letterman style "Top Ten" lists of why particular types of riders don't wave (I found the Goldwing riders list by far the funniest):
http://motorcycle.meetup.com/19/messages/boards/thread/4217619 (http://motorcycle.meetup.com/19/messages/boards/thread/4217619)
This link was my favorite. The author does a nice job of telling his personal experience of being introduced to the wave and what it means to him.
http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46444 (http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46444)
-SJR
ah the wave - it's like "you're in the club now dude"
I always enjoyed this inclusive little aspect of motorcyling culture, it's cool
most riders here regardless of type will give you a wave - 'cept scooters for some reason
I try to be cool to the scoots, it's like, hey you're on two motorised wheels, it's all good - wave - and no wave back.... so i don't wave to scoots :-\
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on May 29, 2008, 01:22:56 AMAfter the initial post are a few funny Letterman style "Top Ten" lists of why particular types of riders don't wave
BMW riders : afraid hand will freeze if taken from heated grip ;D (my fave)
The most commonly used wave in South Africa are the " bird " Always given to inconsidered motorcar drivers [bang]
<waves to STR>
[moto]
nice write up :)
alwayz keep watch out for those cars...
they are all trying to kill you ;)
have fun! :)
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on May 29, 2008, 01:22:56 AM
In the limited three days of riding I've had, I've been cut off by a short distance twice, had two cars invade my lane on the highway and push me off to the side, had a car quickly squeeze past me into a parking spot which I was backing my bike into and have been tailgated constantly. Wrapped into the wave for me along with the message, "Isn't this great," is the message, "I know your troubles."
Welcome to the club, man. :)
However, I can't help but noticing there are NO pics in the thread? I searched on your name - couldn't find a post with a pic of your bike in it!
Funnily enough, in Australia the 'wave' doesn't exist per se - we see more of the 'nod' here. It always kind of annoys me when other riders don't nod - we ALL ride, and we're all in this together! [thumbsup]
ps: just worked out why we don't wave - we drive on the left!
Quote from: DuCaTiNi on May 29, 2008, 03:45:06 AM
<waves to STR>
[moto]
nice write up :)
alwayz keep watch out for those cars...
they are all trying to kill you ;)
have fun! :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that is excellent advice = it is 100% true. [thumbsup]
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on May 29, 2008, 01:22:56 AM
In the limited three days of riding I've had, I've been cut off by a short distance twice, had two cars invade my lane on the highway and push me off to the side, had a car quickly squeeze past me into a parking spot which I was backing my bike into and have been tailgated constantly.
Fun, isn't it?? ;) Just remember - EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO KILL YOU....and you'll be alright...
Welcome to the addiction, though!! [thumbsup]
-If I'm not mistaken, you said you were from the Boston area... Me too, and I love riding with new people, especially new riders... PM me and we can meet up, go for a ride, and maybe practice some techniques and whatnot...
-john
Living 10 minutes from the 2nd largest Harley dealership in the states, this topic hits close to home. I have found that most real Harley guys will wave now and again. It is the posers that refuse. You know the guys that go to the dealership to by a Sportster and walk out with a Softail Classic with the full chrome package and leather side bags. (Along with the full leather kit pasted with HD logos and a black half helmet layered with stickered quotes like, "10 miles and $10,000 don't make you a biker" and " Don't trust anything that bled for 7 days and hasn't died yet"). Those guys are my favorite. I work with quite a few. They are just as arrogant off the bike as on. I find it kind of funny. I ride year around and they always have smart a** comments when they see my bike in the parking lot and it 30 degrees. One guy told me that, "You ain't provin nothin to nobody". My reply was, "I can't help you bought a bike that won't crank under 65 degrees, why don't you trailer it to work and push over (to the motorcycle parking)". Talk about stirring up the Wild Hogs. He was ready to rumble! Sorry, back on subject.
I think that Monsters kind of confuse these wanna be gang members. They see the round headlight and think that it is one of their brothers until they get up close and see the full face helmet and legs tucked up neatly next to the bike. I particularly like the ones that give the wave and then try to take it back. Some of which shouldn't be letting go of their handlebars in the first place.
But by far, the most arrogant seem to be the Gold Wings. They are to busy fiddling with their 6 disc changers.
I usually wave to everyone, whether it's returned or not. The major exception is when I'm workin' in the twisties. ;D
Quote from: Count Desmo on May 29, 2008, 06:30:37 AM
I usually wave to everyone, whether it's returned or not. The major exception is when I'm workin' in the twisties. ;D
As do I.... I'll usually just give a nod if I'm in the middle of downshifting or something.... I really don;t pay attention to who rides what, and I find it comical that people will wave based solely on what make of bike you ride...
I've had a couple of cool conversations with grizzled old Harley guys that tell me about how they used to own Duc's "back in the day" and what good bikes they are. A gray beard is normally a good indication of a good Harley rider versus a yuppy douche. ;D
I wave to everyone, and in CA most of them wave back (even got a wave back from CHP once!). If someone doesn't wave back, then I generally assume that it's a bad moment for them to wave, or they didn't see me in time. If it's a bad moment for me, sometimes I will just nod or lift my left fingers.
In Germany (riding a BMW) I found that the BMWs and sportbikes all waved back, but none of the cruiser riders did.
I had wondered about the UK/Australia thing and discovered that they nod instead of waving.
It's been a totally different experience on a bicycle - in CA, there is lots of snobbery among the road bikers, and I almost never get a wave back unless I am on my road bike. In Ireland I found every bicyclist waves back.
Sometimes I will even cross over, wave to motos when I'm on my bicycle, or to bicycles when I'm on my Duc, but I think that usually just confuses them. [cheeky]
I even wave back to little kids on the side of the road when they stop to stare!
Sometimes waving reminds me of the movie Night at Roxbury when they go around bobbing their heads saying "what's up" to every woman they see. I think sometimes it can be overdone a bit. Maybe a slight nod of the head, high beam flash or beep of the horn would help to break up the routine. Especially in traffic, I would rather keep my eyes on driving and hands on the bars than exchaging pleasantries.
What I would like to know, is proper ettiquette in passing a fellow biker driving in the same direction. Sometimes they drive slower or their exhaust causes deafness and I want to get past them. Sometimes the oil spray from the Hardley Drivensomes will spot my windscreen. In any event, it seems weird to go out into the other lane to pass, but splitting the lane also seems weird. Either way it is awquard to me. I have been passed both ways, and I dont really care much, but then again not a whole lot bothers me.
As for the little kids, I always pull the clutch and rev the motor and toot the horn. Maybe a little wheelie too. I pull the air horn when I drive a truck, too. I get more of a kick out of it then the kids, I think.
Quote from: AndrewNS on May 29, 2008, 10:43:22 AM
I even wave back to little kids on the side of the road when they stop to stare!
yep...i love it when little kids stare or jump and wave to me.
I rarely initiate a wave , but will try and return one dependant on whether it is prudent to do so at that moment.
I usually just give a nod or a finger wave from the clutch side.
Quote from: AndrewNS on May 29, 2008, 10:43:22 AM
I even wave back to little kids on the side of the road when they stop to stare!
Sometimes I pull in my clutch and blast the throttle. Even better if it happens to set off a car alarm.
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on May 29, 2008, 01:22:56 AM
I'm a new rider as of last Friday. Like a male rabbit mistakingly placed with the females, after I straddled my Monster they had a hard time prying me off. Over the long weekend I logged about 18-20 hours of riding and about four tanks of fuel.
Welcome but are you NOT aware that we are in the middle of a gas crisis?!
[cheeky]
i have noticed a big difference based on the bike im riding. i have the monster, and a ktm supermoto. i get a wider range of riders that wave to me on the duc, but on the ktm its like im not even riding a bike half the time. i dont know what it is with the harley crowd, but when they see someone in a roadrace leather jacket riding a dirtbike, they tend to flash me a "im better than you" look when i pass them.
ive had more stoplight conversations while on the duc, especially with the harley riders. they tend to notice that its not a "rice rocket" and can tell its a v-twin (if they can hear it).
i get tons of complements on the duc, but on my ktm the most popular are questions like "is that thing street legal?" or "i didnt know they made those street legal?" to which i have to reply "they didnt!!" and flash a mischievous smile or wink.
i make it a point to wave at damn near everyone on a bike, unless i just cant or didnt see them until its too late because of the traffic. i love the look scooter guys give me when i wave, its like they have never had anyone on a bike wave to them before. and i will expect the same once i get a scooter. thats right, i want a scooter and there is nothing you can do about it!!
In Hawaii most people will wave, regardless of what kind of bike you are on. But motorcyclists definetly have their cliques here too. Harley riders only ride with Harley riders (which I think is just plain gay) and guys on Japanese bikes seem to stick together, but not as exclusively as the Harley guys. Who would think that the "counter-culture" could be so elitist?
I wave to everybody I can, but will feel bad if I am shifting or in a corner and can't wave back to somebody.
Forgot to mention that in San Francisco itself, nobody waves...there are way too many bikes. It would be like waving to other pedestrians in Manhattan. :P
Quote from: msincredible on May 29, 2008, 12:55:11 PM
It would be like waving to other pedestrians in Manhattan. :P
Which, by the way, is one of my favorite things to do in the Big Apple [cheeky]
Whenever I don't get the return wave I just assume that the other rider is too scared to take a hand of the handlebars. [moto]
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on May 29, 2008, 01:22:56 AMI began to understand that it was a recognition of sorts, of the fun but also the danger that you share with the similar experience. I felt happy to be a part of this so when I saw another rider, lacking the cool composure of other riders, I began excitedly thrusting my opened palm down and away from me with a straight face but a huge smile inside eagerly awaiting a salute in return. Within the first hour of the first ride on my bike, when the only fellow Monster I saw that weekend passed by, I instinctively sat upright on my bike, gushed a huge smile and waved exuberantly like a small child would wave while watching a parade. The older more experienced rider smiled back pleasantly, a bit amused at my gawking and returned my unrefined wave in a far more mature fashion. I instantly felt as if he were a good friend.
Great post. :)
I come from bicycles, where the nod/wave isn't nearly as common, so it was interesting to notice how nearly universal the wave becomes while on a motorcycle. It's fun.
Quote from: AndrewNS on May 29, 2008, 10:43:22 AM
I even wave back to little kids on the side of the road when they stop to stare!
That's when I wheelie [evil]
In my corner of New Hampshire, Harleys nearly always wave to me. Even when I'm on the Vespa.
I waved at a scooter yesterday and I could tell he seemed confused ;D
I take it he does not see many waves.
I started to Wave at Motorcycle cops. The funny thing is the only wave I got back ever was one I did not initiate. Go figure.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on May 29, 2008, 12:59:26 PM
Which, by the way, is one of my favorite things to do in the Big Apple [cheeky]
I prefer to hug - more personal ;D
Thanks to those who enjoyed the post and to those who have responded. I'm glad I had the time to write it while the feeling was still fresh in memory and it was a pleasure to write.
Quote from: roy-nexus-6However, I can't help but noticing there are NO pics in the thread? I searched on your name - couldn't find a post with a pic of your bike in it!
I wanted the topic to be more about a generic beginners discovery of the salutes and any meaning that people might place behind them, less about me personally. My bike isn't a customized work of art like some of the other bikes on the forum but I love her and I'd be happy to post her in an appropriate thread as soon as I get one where my poor camera phone hasn't turned the striking yellow paint to an elderly cream. :) I stopped by my mom's to introduce her to Sarah even though our conversations of late have consisted of, "Hey Mom, my motorcycle...," to which she interjects, "your head injury," and she snapped a couple pics of Sarah and I together.
Quote from: JohnsterPM me and we can meet up, go for a ride, and maybe practice some techniques and whatnot...
PM soon to be on its way! [thumbsup]
Quote from: IZWelcome but are you NOT aware that we are in the middle of a gas crisis?!
It hadn't come up yet but I also wipe my ass with only the finest French silk. ;) These days I fill up my car's tank about once every two weeks or more. $60 bucks on fuel for 18 hours of fun seemed like a good ratio to me. I was loving the freedom of riding wherever the road took me with no destination in mind and the ability to go very far for the price of a hamburger, fries and a coke. With the ability to go further sitting in the form of plastic in my back pocket there was no thought involved when the gas light would flash.
Quote from: psycledelic on May 29, 2008, 05:19:29 AM
...My reply was, "I can't help you bought a bike that won't crank under 65 degrees, why don't you trailer it to work and push over (to the motorcycle parking)". Talk about stirring up the Wild Hogs...
Your whole post was right on the money, this line in particular is freakin' awesome. Talk about OWNED!
Sometime's the wave is fun, sometime's I find it bothersome. Riding is sometimes dangerous enough without worrying about silly cultural obligations! I'll admit, I've gotten to the point where only certain bikes excite me enough to wave. I'll always return a wave if I can, but initiating has become tiresome.
How lame would it be to get in an accident because of the wave? Anyone???
I wave to anyone on 2 wheels with a motor, sometimes even scooters ;D
best wave video ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYXy9QSBoFs
i have a very good friend buying a bike this weekend. last weekend we went and got him geared up. he's taken the MSF already. In the car on the way home from the gear shop, I had to give him the run down on 'the wave' so he wouldn't be surprised when it happened the first time.
Great OP and good links, thank you. I'm forwarding the links to him now.
Me, i wave to everyone if I have time and see them and aren't otherwise engaged. Sometimes a nod if I can't get the hand up. The only exception are Police. Nothing against them as riders, but I have a buddy who waved to a motor officer and promptly received a fixit ticket (integrated tail light) for his trouble. I figure it's just bad luck. If I get a look from them, they'll get a nod, but I won't initiate.
If people don't wave back, that's their problem. I don't let it ruin my day if they're going to be sour. Most HD riders around here are doctors and dentists and crap like that so not like they're going to pull over and start a rumble.
andy
Quote from: Pakhan on May 29, 2008, 09:26:13 PM
I wave to anyone on 2 wheels with a motor, sometimes even scooters ;D
best wave video ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYXy9QSBoFs
I just had to point this out that his filming the video in Taiwan. Sweet thats where I'm from [thumbsup]
Quote from: Johnster on May 29, 2008, 05:02:30 AM
Fun, isn't it?? ;) Just remember - EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO KILL YOU....and you'll be alright...
Welcome to the addiction, though!! [thumbsup]
-If I'm not mistaken, you said you were from the Boston area... Me too, and I love riding with new people, especially new riders... PM me and we can meet up, go for a ride, and maybe practice some techniques and whatnot...
-john
+1 on that front. i have some good roads around the dedham area. funny the wave almost got me killed when i first started to use it way back in 1995. i actually wrote a story about it that i am pitching to some moto mags. be careful though. sometimes you want to wave back to somebody and you can forget that you need both hands to ride..... sometimes [thumbsup]
the ron [evil]
Quote from: IZ on May 29, 2008, 11:44:59 AM
Welcome but are you NOT aware that we are in the middle of a gas crisis?!
[cheeky]
ZING [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
the ron [evil]
I always like mordeth13 video's [thumbsup]
I'm a total waver...just about anything on two wheels...just about.... [thumbsup]
It's part of the mutual understanding that we're badass.
e
Great post. But after going on those links I had a question. Where does the Monster fit in? I mean yes, it's a Ducati. But it isn't a fully faired sportbike. Are we considered sportbike riders still? Or are we naked riders? Anyway I salute, sometimes hand down and palm out, or the two finger thing while holding the left grip. I just wanna be polite, I do one finger salute cars that tailgate.
I wave at just about everybody, motorcycle cops included, if I'm not cranked over in a corner. Sometimes, even then. ;D
One of the only times I didn't wave was when I went to Laguna Seca for the US MotoGP, there were so many bikes on the roads, that you'd never have both hands on the bars at the same time. :)
By mutual consent, the whole area around Monterey turned into a "No Wave" zone that weekend. [laugh]
Quote from: CountGreffi on May 31, 2008, 01:51:52 PMOr are we naked riders?
Depends on whether you're dressed or not...personally I prefer gear. [cheeky]
And on a more serious note, I find that the Monster tends to get waved back from more different types of bikes than a fully-faired sport bike.
Quote from: krolik on May 31, 2008, 02:25:22 PM
I wave at just about everybody, motorcycle cops included, if I'm not cranked over in a corner. Sometimes, even then. ;D
Yeah....I had a passenger do an arms out fully extended wave while cranked over in a corner. It was actually enough to muck with my turn. I was not pleased.
Three turns later, she did it again. [roll]
Quote from: someguy on June 01, 2008, 10:20:54 AM
Yeah....I had a passenger do an arms out fully extended wave while cranked over in a corner. It was actually enough to muck with my turn. I was not pleased.
Three turns later, she did it again. [roll]
I had a passenger too nervous to wave at anyone, even on a straight...I think he was also too embarrassed. [cheeky]
The short, intense time I spent riding in the UK, the most common salute was the head nod.
I think the higher degree of training and safety focus forced on the UK riders makes them tend to keep their hands on the bars at all times. It makes sense.
Most of the time it was me and Michy on the back of the ST4s, i didn't wanna take my hands of the bars. So, I always did the head head nod salute. It stuck with me, and I brought the behavior home with me.
I'm going to stick to it and see if I can start a trend hera at home ;): the head nod salute; keep your hands on the bars.
Quote from: JohnnyDucati on June 01, 2008, 10:49:03 AM
The short, intense time I spent riding in the UK, the most common salute was the head nod.
I think the higher degree of training and safety focus forced on the UK riders makes them tend to keep their hands on the bars at all times. It makes sense.
I thought it was because you are riding on the left, but the throttle is still on the right...you aren't going to wave with the right arm, and riders on the other side won't see a left arm wave. Hence the nod instead. At least this is what native UK riders have told me.
Quote from: msincredible on June 01, 2008, 10:51:18 AM
I thought it was because you are riding on the left, but the throttle is still on the right...you aren't going to wave with the right arm, and riders on the other side won't see a left arm wave. Hence the nod instead. At least this is what native UK riders have told me.
Darn it, why'd you have to bring up brilliant logic like that to refute my statements? :-[
Yes, you are correct - i didn't quite think that one through . . . must be getting old. What were we talking about? Oh yeah. I remember parking roadside at the pubs, and the bikers driving past would nod, not wave.
Nevertheless, I did ride in Spain, France and Germany (on the correct side of the road) and the head nods far outnumber the hand wave, I think. Of course, the French have too much ennui to wave anyway ;D.
On one memorable trip, we took the ST from Southhampton to LeHavre by ferry, then on to Paris to visit my work buddy. My pucker factor in Paris was definitely highly elevated - my hands were glued to the bars, I was not takin' em off fer nobody.
Anyway. I seem to have picked up a lot of habits over there that I didn't ditch when I came home. Probably that simple.
J
Quote from: JohnnyDucati on June 01, 2008, 11:54:48 AM
Darn it, why'd you have to bring up brilliant logic like that to refute my statements? :-[
Sorry...next [drink] on me. ;)
Quote from: JohnnyDucati on June 01, 2008, 11:54:48 AM
Nevertheless, I did ride in Spain, France and Germany (on the correct side of the road) and the head nods far outnumber the hand wave, I think.
I only rode in Germany, but I remember getting both hand waves and nods there.
Quote from: JohnnyDucati on June 01, 2008, 11:54:48 AMMy pucker factor in Paris was definitely highly elevated - my hands were glued to the bars, I was not takin' em off fer nobody.
I don't blame you! Traffic in Paris is crazy. :o
However, I have to say, after taking a "moto taxi" (scooter) from Paris to CDG airport, I was really impressed at how much room they made for splitting bikes, far more considerate than California drivers. [thumbsup]
Quote from: onederer on May 29, 2008, 11:25:38 AM
yep...i love it when little kids stare or jump and wave to me.
I rarely initiate a wave , but will try and return one dependant on whether it is prudent to do so at that moment.
I usually just give a nod or a finger wave from the clutch side.
THe other day I had a young kid come up to me when I was getting ready to take off riding and say "Nice Ducati!" I was floored, he was like 7 years old.. I asked him if his dad had one and he said no but he has motorcycles and is going to buy a Ducati. Of course, you know what the next question out of his mouth was... ;)
(if you don't I'll give you a hint - "Can you do a wheelie?") [laugh]
I wave to everyone, cops included, I get a wave back 99.9% of the time.
It's funny, earlier today I started to read this thread and was out the door gettin on my bike before I got to the 2nd page.
I even got the 1 finger point today! I cracked up, I love that one. [thumbsup]
This is a great thread. I am a new rider as well and the first post/write up was great. I am already riding to work and riding as a mode of transportation not just a weekend toy. [thumbsup]
Quote from: toaster on May 29, 2008, 12:22:58 PM
and i will expect the same once i get a scooter. thats right, i want a scooter and there is nothing you can do about it!!
Me too!! I want a ruckus! ... Once the duc is paid off it's next on the list .. Paid off .. wait a min, their will ALWAYS be something she needs .. Maybe now is the perfect time ... I gotta go talk to the wife!!!!!
Quote from: 2 Wheel Wanderer on June 01, 2008, 11:10:58 PM
I even got the 1 finger point today! I cracked up, I love that one. [thumbsup]
I love the 1 finger point! I use it when I'm feeling frisky, maybe a little cocky. It's like saying, "Hey, that's you!"
I remember when first starting to ride I would smile along with the wave, until I realized they can't see my expression in the full-face helmet. Since then I remain facially stoic while expressing the greeting through hand gesture alone.