Is it even possible to have one installed on a diesel vehicle?
My wife would like one for work as that thing seriously takes about 20 minutes to heat up and produce any amount of heat, not to mention runs like shit if it has not warmed up for 5-10 minutes when it is cold.
the reason I am asking is because of the glow-plug mechanism involved.
For those of you not familiar, when you put the key in, the glow-plug light comes on and then when it turns off, you are ready to start the vehicle.
So my question is......if you had a remote start, would it automatically try to kick the car over? I couldn't imagine that being very good on the start, engine, etc.
thoughts?
the immobilizer system is more difficult to overcome then the glow plugs..
I really, really, really suggest not letting it sit and idle to get warm.
it will take forever to warm up and you plug the EGR cooler and intake manifold in a hurry this way.
does she have a place where she can plug it in? if so the best option is the block heater.
I "think" this is the part number for the OEM one.
JNV-198-006-A
I know the Canadians got them, and you may have to get one from a canadian dealer.. World impex used to carry them.
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-heater_929500.html (http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-heater_929500.html)
there is also a aftermarket one called zero start or something of that nature. it was remote controlled and plugged into the battery, I belive you had to get a batter with a higher Ah rating (factory was like 80)
if I remember more about it I'll post it up.
oh yeah, do you have a CEL? if it running rough it might have a glow plug out.
agreed plug it in with a timer have it on for 2-3 hours before start up had a Jetta and Golf diesels for 10 years each 550k on the Jetta
also only use the "true" block heater not an inline one
glow plugs and start up time-
glow plugs operate by heating up the cylinder wall to the point where the combination of high compression and temperature create ignition (as opposed to spark plugs.) the colder engine (and the coolant), the longer it will take the glow plugs to warm the cylinder walls to ignition temperature.
-interesting side note...many of todays diesel engines dont even have glow plugs, using direct injection instead
diesel block heater-
block heaters keep your engine block and coolant warm enough to avoid hard starting due to the cold. get an in line sensor (on the extension cord) which only pushes juice when the outside temp is below 50 degrees. then just plug it in every night. or just plug it in every night from mid september until mid april (results may vary depending on your climate.)
warm up time-
according to this article (http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-2.html) idling your vw tdi is a waste of time. start it up, wait for the oil pressure to reach operating temp, and go. [thumbsup]
Block Heater!
or park the car inside, in that space in front of your fireplace you say is now available.
To answer your question, yes it's possible. The one on my truck has provisions for setting a time delay for use with diesel engines.
Quote from: howie on February 06, 2010, 04:00:25 PM
Block Heater!
been drinking tonight so havent looked through all the posts, but thanks for everyone that responded and will read tomorrow.
I was told by the dealer that an engine block heater by VW is not made as their "glow plug" does not need one and they don't make one for a 2004.
But from above, that might be incorrect.
Thanks for all you responses and will read in the AM.
- Jud
I do not believe the TDI's have immobiliser like other MKIV VW's.
Thats said I don't think a remote start will help your situation. I have a 99.5 Golf TDI I have had for years, and they just don't make heat while idling. You need to drive them to warm them up. Thats just the way it is with TDI's. Next one I get when this thing finally dies will have heated seats (no sign of it dying yet though at 235K).
Sorry, I wish I had a better solution to offer ya.
Also, I you haven't already find someone local who has VAG-COM to turn down/off your EGR so it doesn't clog your intake manifold. You may look on www.tdiclub.com (//http://) (//http://) for info regarding remote starts and block heaters. There is a ton of great knowledge there.
Diesel is barbaric and outdated. ;D
Quote from: turbodude on February 06, 2010, 06:38:58 PM
I do not believe the TDI's have immobiliser like other MKIV VW's.
Thats said I don't think a remote start will help your situation. I have a 99.5 Golf TDI I have had for years, and they just don't make heat while idling. You need to drive them to warm them up. Thats just the way it is with TDI's. Next one I get when this thing finally dies will have heated seats (no sign of it dying yet though at 235K).
Sorry, I wish I had a better solution to offer ya.
your 99.5 doesn't 01 and up is immobilizer equipped.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 06, 2010, 06:44:24 PM
Diesel is barbaric and outdated. ;D
Seen any results from the 24hrs at Le Mans for the last few years [evil]
Thanks all for the information.
I checked out the TDI Forum and you guys are right.......remote start won't work.
My car goes in for 80k service in about 5k miles and I found a local (non-dealer) shop that does all factory maintenance to spec, etc.
The mechanic is an ex-dealer one (from Midwest Auto Group....usually gets annual service awards), so the car will be in good hands.
I might call ahead to see about getting an engine block heater installed.
Thanks all.
I didn't know that you weren't supposed to let diesels idle.
Why do big rigs never shut off their trucks???
Rigs stay running to keep the electrical appliances running such as refrigerator and A/C.
My brother in law drives trucks for a living.
Quote from: NAKID on February 07, 2010, 10:14:22 AM
Rigs stay running to keep the electrical appliances running such as refrigerator and A/C.
My brother in law drives trucks for a living.
well yeah, I know why they keep them running. My bestfriend owns a big ass rockstar motorcoach.
Just wondering why I can't let my TDI idle.
It is illegal to let a diesel truck idle in NY now.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 07, 2010, 10:28:01 AM
well yeah, I know why they keep them running. My bestfriend owns a big ass rockstar motorcoach.
Just wondering why I can't let my TDI idle.
those big trucks have common rail injection. they burn fuel at much higher pressures so it burns more efficiently, they also have a higher load on the engine sitting there idling while they run the electronics. I know very little about these systems.
tdi doesnt have enough load at idle, it doesn't get hot enough to correctly burn so the fuel that didn't burn correctly starts to plug up the egr system.
I'm not a fan of disabling the EGR like some one else stated, it helps reduce fuel consumption significantly by filling the cyls partially with burned air so it doesn't have to give a full load of fuel while at cruse to maintain speed, its one of the secrets to the higher economy of the diesel at speed, it also significantly reduces NOx emissions.
I only disable on vehicles with larger turbo's/ nozzles and that only due to them not having the correct plumbing for the egr system. its kind of a hack to bypass any emissions system IMHO. people having these turbos installed know what their getting into (loads of power, smoke, wheel spin and 29mpg ;D )
If the vehicle isn't driven at highway speed regularly, you should take it out and drive it like you stoled it for a bit to keep that stuff from building up.
your vehicle is a PD, glow plug cycle before start up is like 1-3 seconds, It uses injector units that produce much higher pressure then the old injection pumps so the fuel hits O2 at a higher pressure and ignites easer.
Incase your wondering, I'm on TDI clubs list of trusted diesel mechanics , the only one for my state ;)
Large truck diesels also have huge oil pans as opposed to 4.? quarts, so any oil dillution is minium and the following day they will be run hard for long enough to burn off and moisture. The absolute worst on a small diesel would be a suburban house wife running errands, lots of miles, lots of idling, and it never gets up to operating temps.
Quote from: sno_duc on February 07, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Large truck diesels also have huge oil pans as opposed to 4.? quarts, so any oil dillution is minium and the following day they will be run hard for long enough to burn off and moisture. The absolute worst on a small diesel would be a suburban house wife running errands, lots of miles, lots of idling, and it never gets up to operating temps.
Those conditions are the worst for any internal combustion engine.
Quote from: acalles on February 07, 2010, 11:14:30 AM
If the vehicle isn't driven at highway speed regularly, you should take it out and drive it like you stoled it for a bit to keep that stuff from building up.
Thanks for all the info.
My wife drives the TDI and has a 20mi commute each way via interstate, so it gets a proper amount of driving
Quote from: ducpainter on February 07, 2010, 01:40:40 PM
Those conditions are the worst for any internal combustion engine.
Sucks for my car as I have a 1.5 mi commute each way.
Starting to have the wife drive it once or twice a month so it gets a nice highway operating temp to burn off any moisture.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 08, 2010, 04:42:20 AM
Sucks for my car as I have a 1.5 mi commute each way.
Roughly the worst thing you could do for your car.
Why don't you walk?
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 08, 2010, 07:40:27 AM
Roughly the worst thing you could do for your car.
Why don't you walk?
I'd have to cross a 4 lane highway.
Not sure I want to play "frogger" everyday.
Quote from: acalles on February 07, 2010, 11:14:30 AM
If the vehicle isn't driven at highway speed regularly, you should take it out and drive it like you stoled it for a bit to keep that stuff from building up.
Love it when the Italian tune up is recommended by a mechanic! They work.....
Quote from: angler on February 08, 2010, 10:49:42 AM
Love it when the Italian tune up is recommended by a mechanic! They work.....
oh yes they do.
I have one customer, she's about 95 years old... she only drives to the library, grocery store and church. I don't think she revs it up past 1300 rpm... when she brings it by I take it for a test drive, the first 30 seconds or so it just bogs.. I seriously thought the maf sensor was dead.. nope, turbo vanes were all clogged up. drove the hell out of it and it ran like new.
she didn't even realize it was low on power, I didn't think I'd make it around the block with out getting run over. [laugh]
I will occasionally run the crap out of it to burn off carbon.
I love passing cars on two lane roads and just see that big plum of black smoke behind me!
I've been running Diesel Kleene in it for about a 5.5wks now (only 2tanks of fuel) and seems to start a little easier in the cold.
I checked out the TDI Forum and appears to be the most recommended product.
yup thats what i used
also don't forget to drain the fuel filters every oil change ( yes there are 2.... 1 in the engine bay and 1 under the car)
Quote
yup thats what i used
also don't forget to drain the fuel filters every oil change ( yes there are 2.... 1 in the engine bay and 1 under the car)
two filter?
news to me..
are you sure you aren't draining the fuel cooler? ;)
you drain the water separator at the bottom of the filter with 10k miles on it, you change the filter ever 20k miles.
So, wait? it's your wife's car? Aren't YOU the remote starter?
Quote from: superjohn on February 09, 2010, 10:39:58 AM
So, wait? it's your wife's car? Aren't YOU the remote starter?
[laugh] [laugh]
It's actually "my car" but she drives it.
We sold her car and bought the lexus last year, but I think the title is my name.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 08, 2010, 07:40:27 AM
Roughly the worst thing you could do for your car.
Why don't you walk?
or ride a bicycle?
Quote from: herm (not herb) on February 09, 2010, 04:37:37 PM
or ride a bicycle?
Because he would have to cross the highway.
It's one of the few highways in Ohio that was specifically designed so there would be
no way around the highway, not even one that's slightly less convenient.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 08, 2010, 11:49:21 AM
I will occasionally run the crap out of it to burn off carbon.
I love passing cars on two lane roads and just see that big plum of black smoke behind me!
I've been running Diesel Kleene in it for about a 5.5wks now (only 2tanks of fuel) and seems to start a little easier in the cold.
I checked out the TDI Forum and appears to be the most recommended product.
Is the car stock? Should these cars be letting out black smoke when stock? Acalles? My 99.5 didn't smoke at all till chip and injectors, and now it's just a light haze. Great cars though. It's a shame they only made the PD for one year.
Quote from: turbodude on February 10, 2010, 03:08:18 AM
Is the car stock? Should these cars be letting out black smoke when stock? Acalles? My 99.5 didn't smoke at all till chip and injectors, and now it's just a light haze. Great cars though. It's a shame they only made the PD for one year.
they made the PD from 04-05 in the MK4 chassis, and 06 in the MK5 chassis.
yeah, they did smoke a bit, is yours a manual? they had a smaller injection pump and were actually more efficent. to tell you the truth, for reliability I like the VE engnes much better. if maintained and gasoline or bio diesel over B20 is NEVER put in the vehicle they seem to run for a very, very long time, and they run like new with 250k miles on them. some of them did leak after the switch to ULSD but its the head seal and fairly easy to replace.
the PD cams are a real weak link, the BEW like cyrus's doesn't seem to develop the cam wear unless incorrect oil is used.
the BRM engine found in the MK5, they all wear the cams out, around 120k miles no matter the oil used they wear the cam and your forced to change camshaft and followers, possibly the cyl head if it was driven too far. I think the reason is they wanted more power from it so they installed a cam with a steeper lobe, when I find these failed I always replace with the BEW engine code camshaft. I honestly find no difference in power.
the PD did smoke a bit, but they all smoke a bit in my experience.. if yours doesn't smoke your start of injection timing is probably on the advanced side or your not driving it hard enough ;)
Thanks for the info. You are correct my injection timing is advanced.
I guess the old VE engine isn't so bad after all. It's been a good car still hanging on to the original LUK clutch somehow.
I was considering a TDI in a year for my high mileage commuter duty. Did they fix the cam issue you mention yet? I look for 300k out of a commuter and I'd bump into that cam replacement within two years time. What are some of the other maintainance issue that pop up on them. My Mazda 3 has been damn rock solid with just a plug failure and a bad coil pack in the 220k I've had it so far. This makes me lean towards just getting another one of those.
Quote from: lethe on February 10, 2010, 05:27:17 AM
I was considering a TDI in a year for my high mileage commuter duty. Did they fix the cam issue you mention yet? I look for 300k out of a commuter and I'd bump into that cam replacement within two years time. What are some of the other maintainance issue that pop up on them. My Mazda 3 has been damn rock solid with just a plug failure and a bad coil pack in the 220k I've had it so far. This makes me lean towards just getting another one of those.
if your looking for new, the new engine is a different design and shouldn't place as much stress on the cams since its a common rail system. the PD had a "injector unit" that was pressurized by a lobe on the cam. because of this design there were lots of weird stresses placed on these cams.. in fact they are the only ones that have actual cam bearings rather then just ridding in journals in the head because of these stresses.
I cannot tell you how the new ones are holding up, they haven't been around long enough. From everything I've read, they seem like a really good design. I cannot see a weak point except maybe the HPFP since is making over 30,000 psi. but other then the cam wear VW engines hold up extreamly well when maintained. its the other things that break.. for some one looking for super high mileage, get a manual trans rather then a DSG. don't get me wrong, I love me some (and own a) dsg but for longevity you can't beat the manual trans.
the highest mileage I've seen from them is about 35k miles, this customer has a 09 jetta sport wagon TDI he drives around the country for work. he says he averages about 50mpg and it gets better as he drives it.
he also has two older passat TDI's (B4 chassis) both of these over 300k, one on original engine, the other he ran grease threw and were rebuilding the engine for the second time [laugh] might give you an idea of what I think about grease burners.
Quote from: acalles on February 10, 2010, 05:56:13 AM
if your looking for new, the new engine is a different design and shouldn't place as much stress on the cams since its a common rail system. the PD had a "injector unit" that was pressurized by a lobe on the cam. because of this design there were lots of weird stresses placed on these cams.. in fact they are the only ones that have actual cam bearings rather then just ridding in journals in the head because of these stresses.
I cannot tell you how the new ones are holding up, they haven't been around long enough. From everything I've read, they seem like a really good design. I cannot see a weak point except maybe the HPFP since is making over 30,000 psi. but other then the cam wear VW engines hold up extreamly well when maintained. its the other things that break.. for some one looking for super high mileage, get a manual trans rather then a DSG. don't get me wrong, I love me some (and own a) dsg but for longevity you can't beat the manual trans.
the highest mileage I've seen from them is about 35k miles, this customer has a 09 jetta sport wagon TDI he drives around the country for work. he says he averages about 50mpg and it gets better as he drives it.
he also has two older passat TDI's (B4 chassis) both of these over 300k, one on original engine, the other he ran grease threw and were rebuilding the engine for the second time [laugh] might give you an idea of what I think about grease burners.
Ok that's good to hear, so it's still in the running. How much maintainance work absolutely has to be done by the dealership? I'm above average in terms of mechanical aptitude, my 3 drove off the lot and never has seen it again.
None of it *has* to be done at the dealership. If you want a TDI and have one out of warranty, it's almost a must to have a good independant shop that know's how to work on TDI's. The average dealership wrench has no clue about diesels. I do all my own work with the exception of the first timing belt job. I watched someone do it, and will be doing my own next time.
Timing belts are an absolute must do on time. If they break its' $,$$$ to fix.
Quote from: turbodude on February 10, 2010, 07:00:55 AM
None of it *has* to be done at the dealership. If you want a TDI and have one out of warranty, it's almost a must to have a good independant shop that know's how to work on TDI's. The average dealership wrench has no clue about diesels. I do all my own work with the exception of the first timing belt job. I watched someone do it, and will be doing my own next time.
Timing belts are an absolute must do on time. If they break its' $,$$$ to fix.
Anything different than doing a timing belt on a gas engine or just the normal pain-in-the-assness of tight space on a transverse engine?
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 09, 2010, 06:19:41 PM
Because he would have to cross the highway.
It's one of the few highways in Ohio that was specifically designed so there would be no way around the highway, not even one that's slightly less convenient.
Yeah, there is a way around it that would take me 6 miles out of my way to get to work.
Sorry I am not as "green" as some.
Not to mention, my work does not have a showering facility, so riding a bicycle to work in my nice work clothes is not really an option.
Quote from: lethe on February 10, 2010, 06:06:41 AM
Ok that's good to hear, so it's still in the running. How much maintainance work absolutely has to be done by the dealership? I'm above average in terms of mechanical aptitude, my 3 drove off the lot and never has seen it again.
they give the first 35k miles worth of services for free (well, you paid for it in the price of the car ;)) unless you go with the audi A3 tdi, the you have to pay for your own services.
oil changes every 10k, using factory correct oil only (castrol SLX LL03, specification 504.00 and 507.00) correct oil is a ABSOLUTE must, especially with this new engine. the wrong stuff will toast the particulate filter.
fuel filter changes every 20k, pollen filter every 20k and air filer every 40k (I like to change them more often but its much more dusty here then in other places) the new ones have a particulate filter that needs to be replaced at 120k miles, I have no idea the cost but its probably not cheap. timing belt/water pump will also be about a $1200 service (100k miles)
the DSG has a few more mainteneces (oil/ filter change every 40k that requires a scan tool to perform)
the timing belts aren't that big of deal, I haven't looked too deeply into the new tdi to find out whats required but its probably easier then a VE timing belt.. the PD's were simple, required many special tools but almost idiot proof, I expect the new engine to be the same way.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 10, 2010, 07:24:48 AM
Yeah, there is a way around it that would take me 6 miles out of my way to get to work.
Sorry I am not as "green" as some.
Not to mention, my work does not have a showering facility, so riding a bicycle to work in my nice work clothes is not really an option.
I'd picture you more as a unicycle type of guy anyway.
Quote from: acalles on February 10, 2010, 07:25:25 AM
they give the first 35k miles worth of services for free (well, you paid for it in the price of the car ;)) unless you go with the audi A3 tdi, the you have to pay for your own services.
oil changes every 10k, using factory correct oil only (castrol SLX LL03, specification 504.00 and 507.00) correct oil is a ABSOLUTE must, especially with this new engine. the wrong stuff will toast the particulate filter.
fuel filter changes every 20k, pollen filter every 20k and air filer every 40k (I like to change them more often but its much more dusty here then in other places) the new ones have a particulate filter that needs to be replaced at 120k miles, I have no idea the cost but its probably not cheap. timing belt/water pump will also be about a $1200 service (100k miles)
the DSG has a few more mainteneces (oil/ filter change every 40k that requires a scan tool to perform)
the timing belts aren't that big of deal, I haven't looked too deeply into the new tdi to find out whats required but its probably easier then a VE timing belt.. the PD's were simple, required many special tools but almost idiot proof, I expect the new engine to be the same way.
35k is only a little more than 6 months [laugh]
Sounds like nothing crazy. I'd buy a few cases of the proper oil and be set for the life of the car. It would be a fun thing to learn more about diesels I think. [thumbsup]
wow, that maintenance schedules sure have changed since my 2004.
My 80k is coming up.
100k is the pricey one as that is when they change the timing belts (guess they are located under the engine, so basically, the engine is removed) and while down there, change out the water pump just because it is a 100$ part and you are right there because if it went out later, you are out all that maintenance time to get to it.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 10, 2010, 07:37:20 AM
wow, that maintenance schedules sure have changed since my 2004.
My 80k is coming up.
100k is the pricey one as that is when they change the timing belts (guess they are located under the engine, so basically, the engine is removed) and while down there, change out the water pump just because it is a 100$ part and you are right there because if it went out later, you are out all that maintenance time to get to it.
If it's like any other conventional tranversely mounted inline 4, it's all at the "front" of the engine which would be the passenger side of the engine compartment. Mighty tight usually but engine removal shouldn't be required, bandaids and patience would be though.
Does look like a bit of a pain to do but not the most terrible thing in the world.
http://www.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf (http://www.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 10, 2010, 07:37:20 AM
wow, that maintenance schedules sure have changed since my 2004.
not really, most of the intervals are the same.
Quote
My 80k is coming up.
100k is the pricey one as that is when they change the timing belts (guess they are located under the engine, so basically, the engine is removed) and while down there, change out the water pump just because it is a 100$ part and you are right there because if it went out later, you are out all that maintenance time to get to it.
timing belt on yours is the easy one. easy. no injection timing to make the beast with two backs with. you lock the cam and the crank, swap out the pump and all the rollers and tensioner (these are what fail) then throw on the new belt. make sure the cam pully is lined up and put it all back together.
Quote from: lethe on February 10, 2010, 07:45:46 AM
Does look like a bit of a pain to do but not the most terrible thing in the world.
http://www.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf (http://www.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf)
that is the old VE engine, they really aren't hard, you just need the tools..
BTW, I DO NOT suggest doing it using the make the beast with two backsing floor jack method, I've seen to many broken parts caused by people doing this. broken control solenoids from hanging by the vacuum lines, broken exhaust because the engine slipped a sat on the exhaust. I won't do it that way, I know some people who do.
Quote from: acalles on February 10, 2010, 08:15:47 AM
that is the old VE engine, they really aren't hard, you just need the tools..
BTW, I DO NOT suggest doing it using the make the beast with two backsing floor jack method, I've seen to many broken parts caused by people doing this. broken control solenoids from hanging by the vacuum lines, broken exhaust because the engine slipped a sat on the exhaust. I won't do it that way, I know some people who do.
I know, just looked it up quick to get a ballpark idea on difficulty level figuring the current one would be at least 80% similar. Yeah I'm set up a little better than a typical shade tree layout, no need for halfassing with a floorjack. [laugh] I'd want to do it right and not break speed records getting it done.
My TDI goes to an authorized service center.
No way do I have the technical ability to even think of trying this at home.