I've seen boards and people swear by them as cheap alternatives to "expensive" track bikes. Thoughts?
I prefer bikes with tanks that bubble. :P
A lot of people love those things!! Just read these myself.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37112.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37112.0)
and
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=2613.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=2613.0)
Might be worth the purchase just to have something to throw around! ;)
With something that light and minimal power one set of track tires would last half a season [cheeky]
It looks like from your post that the Ninja is intended primarily as a track day ride. Good choice for Cresson especially since the straight is not that long.
Being so light and not heavy on the displacement, the Ninja would be great for honing your technical skills and pushing the limit; I would think a spill on a liter bike might be at least a level of magnitude worse than on a 250 - and more costly to fix.
That being said, I think you may find the lack of suspension adjustability a problem fairly quickly.
Just my random, pre-caffeine, .02 ;D
Just re-read the spec sheet for the newer Ninja 250; the rear shock is adjustable for pre-load.
Compared to what a decent track setup sv650 or cb/gsx/r/600 costs, I'm not sure you save any more. Once you start trying to add adjustable bits, rearsets, dampers, bodywork etc. Also coming from an S4R, it may feel a tad puny [roll]
ps I know where there is an awesome 675 which just needs some race plastic to go. And it already feels as light as a 250 :)
Quote from: webspoke on April 16, 2010, 05:32:36 AM
ps I know where there is an awesome 675 which just needs some race plastic to go. And it already feels as light as a 250 :)
You are talking about some other 675, correct. :-*
Um, yeah, I guess so... [cheeky]
Track bike only but Sue might convince me otherwise
You know what else you may want to look at is an Aprilia 250. Full-on track bike. Two-stroke little screamer. Fun as hell with adjustable everything. I got a chance to ride one at Cresson last November (Alessandro with RPM brought a demo [thumbsup] ). OTD could probably be had for just below 6 grand.
i think ninja 250's are a blast. Uglier than hell, but in their own way, it becomes attractive. There's nothing to 'em, and you can't really "break it".
But if you could find yourself into a Aprilia 250, that would be more fun. More expensive, and more fun.
I'd get an SV650 to be honest. You will find parts everywhere, it will actually have a bit of stomp in the motor, and they are a dime a dozen on the used market. While the ninja 250 would certainly be a blast, I think you'll be begging for more bike sooner rather than later.
Quote from: Jester on April 16, 2010, 07:14:36 AM
I'd get an SV650 to be honest...
While I believe you're right -and I follow your logic...
(and I would probably do the same)
...there is something inside me that wants to have a cheap piece of shit I can just flail away on... [evil]
I'm after technique, not speed although speed would be nice I like the cheap factor of the ninja
Quote from: muskrat on April 16, 2010, 08:37:41 AM
I'm after technique, not speed
Is that a request from Miss E ?!?!?!? ;D
Quote from: muskrat on April 16, 2010, 08:37:41 AM
I'm after technique, not speed although speed would be nice I like the cheap factor of the ninja
Don't know much on this subject from the bike perspective, but here is my .02 looking at it from the car world.
If you are truly after technique, be careful of going too cheap. You could go with the cheap bike with cheap components and learn how to wring absolutly everything you can out of that bike. But in doing so you might develop some bad habits out of necessity , to work around the limitations, or you get to because of the components (i.e. not learning throttle control because it has no power, or braking control because of poor brakes).
Your technique may have improved some, but you have to un-learn so much when you move up to the next bike. We see this so much in the car world that a driver can only drive one type of crap box well, you put them in a decent car and they can't do anything...
I think it would be better to go with some of the more rounded, mid-price range bikes that are well known for building technique and not bad habits...
just my opinion. (and the answer is NO!...You can't use my Triumph as you track bike no matter what 'spoke says... [moto])
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on April 16, 2010, 08:56:59 AM
Is that a request from Miss E ?!?!?!? ;D
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
but he can use this one http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/mcy/1678754072.html (http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/mcy/1678754072.html)
UnionJill's post is spot on to a large degree. As far as SV's go, they aren't exactly all that powerful... a little more than my S2R had and so many people track them and crash them that there is a bevy of parts out there in case you bin it. The only thing you'll improve ( and you may not ) on the Ninja is corner speed out of pure necessity, but there is no reason you can't gain that same improvement on a more rounded bike that will last you a lot longer.
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on April 16, 2010, 09:29:36 AM
but he can use this one http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/mcy/1678754072.html (http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/mcy/1678754072.html)
Small world, that belongs to a buddy of the new owner of my Hyper.
I wouldn't get a 250 as a track bike unless your budget doesn't allow anything else. I raced a 250 for two seasons. Fun as hell, but not the best learning tool.
The brakes suck. The suspension is absolute dogshit. The clearance is non-existent (exacerbated by the dogshit suspensino). The ergos are so tight that they prevents you from learning proper body position and from being comfortable. The frame is crap. You literally can feel it wobble underneath you in turns, and the people following you will tell you that your bike looks like it is going to break in half. The engine is so gutless that it's actually a bit of a hindrance to learning corner speed and/or trail braking. You'll also teach yourself to lose throttle control as the bike only operates at WFO. Pre-'08 bikes have 16" wheels, which means you can't get DOT race rubber. While the 16" rubber is ok (i.e. you can still crank the bike over), it has absolutely no feel and will hinder how much you learn from the bike.
Sure, you can cure a lot of that stuff with aftermarket, but even my racebike--rearsets, clip-ons, aftermarket shock, fork internals, 17" weld-up wheels, built motor, full exhaust, rejeted, regeared--makes only a serviceable trackbike. There's a lot to making a slow bike go fast, but there are better tools out there if you wan to learn. That said, the bike is really forgiving. You can make mistakes on the 250 that will cause you to crash on a bigger and better bike.
If you want something with less power, get something with real suspension and a frame and real rubber. A two-stroke or an upgraded SV or something like that.
why not track your S4R?
pfff. he's got spare motorcycles.
Quote from: webspoke on April 16, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Small world, that belongs to a buddy of the new owner of my Hyper.
that is just like Sue's bike. I might have to do it just to piss her off [evil]
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on April 16, 2010, 08:56:59 AM
Is that a request from Miss E ?!?!?!? ;D
You may ride faster but you will never beat me in that department. [coffee]
She didn't marry me because of my "sensible" personality hippie boy.
Quote from: UnionJill on April 16, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
it's too pretty [evil]
quit hitting on me, you're a married woman. stop drinking now woman.
[
...there is something inside me that wants to have a cheap piece of shit I can just flail away on... [evil]
[/quote]
that's one thing I sure miss about my Suzuk 650 Dualsport.
Drop it on dirt, wind blow it over when parked. Just try
to break it! Straighten the front wheel so the handlebars
are not too askew and off you go jumpin curbs and
sh1t [moto]
hmmm.....
the way I see it it's the psychological part first. lean lean lean lean break break break and most of all timing. I'm no track whore but I hope to be soon. Therefore I added up the monies and the Ninja will be perfect to start with because it doesn't pain me to pay 2k for a bike that's worth just that and half the cost was the previous owners pride getting in the way. I've been on my old Monster and loved it but can't bring myself to spending 6k plus just yet but I will. I'm starting at the bottom here and the sv's are one of them to two ninjas. I can crash the ninja and walk away and still have another bike.
Right now I'm not concerned about anything other than the most basic, the rest will come and then but only then I'll race Marty for pinks. I felt like it on the Hico run at times. I did keep up with the first group on one section but after that I withdrew to my normal 90-100 mph style.
Quote from: muskrat on April 16, 2010, 07:06:09 PM
Right now I'm not concerned about anything other than the most basic, the rest will come and then but only then I'll race Marty for pinks.
I'll race yah for pinks!
Quote from: muskrat on April 16, 2010, 07:06:09 PM
Right now I'm not concerned about anything other than the most basic, the rest will come and then but only then I'll race Marty for pinks.
I can't wait to see this.
Quote from: muskrat on April 16, 2010, 07:06:09 PM
the way I see it it's the psychological part first. lean lean lean lean break break break and most of all timing.
it's "brake", not 'break". Breaking is bad. and I suggest you brake 1st, THEN lean, or you will be breaking :o
also, you brake, then lean. brakebrakebraking after leaning or while leanleanleaning is sure to be problematic.
If it's not rained-out tomorrow, come to Cresson even if you're not going to ride on the track; just standing near Marty will make you fast [laugh]
There is a lot to see and learn by just watching other people ride and set up. I mean, what could be better than a day at the track? [evil]
I said brake because that's what I'm going to do to you.
Josh, get yer bike fixed operational and then lets chat.
[popcorn]
Waiting on jet hot to mail me some manifolds (intake and exhaust).
Beyond playing the waiting game and bolting it back together, there's nothing left to do. (assuming i didn't screw something up in the meantime)
start playing with your new project and leave the ole 900 alone so she can see some asphalt.
that's the plan. waiting on jethot to follow suit.
[coffee]