we discussed the initial "news report" here (http://ducatimonsterworldwide.org/index.php?topic=2830.0).
it appears that aprilia and ktm (rightfully) aren't too happy with the ~600cc inline-4 proposal:
http://blogger.xs4all.nl/daisy/archive/2008/06/03/394085.aspx
The 500cc twin is a better option IMO.
I'll still miss the 2 smokers when they go.
Maybe a max displacement 4 stroke rule with no configuration requirements like in MotoGP...
500 or 600 cc 4 stroke in which ever configuration you want...but still prototype like engines. No factory 600s being stroked, massaged, etc.
Sounds like a recipe for mega rev ceiling screamers with potential to be similar in characteristics to a 250 2 stroke...
Frankly, I wish all classes still allowed 2 strokes. Screw the hippies! Let em race! [moto]
Quote from: ZLTFUL on June 05, 2008, 09:30:46 AM
Maybe a max displacement 4 stroke rule with no configuration requirements like in MotoGP...
500 or 600 cc 4 stroke in which ever configuration you want...but still prototype like engines. No factory 600s being stroked, massaged, etc.
Sounds like a recipe for mega rev ceiling screamers with potential to be similar in characteristics to a 250 2 stroke...
Frankly, I wish all classes still allowed 2 strokes. Screw the hippies! Let em race! [moto]
+1 This seems like the idea that factory would be able to live with.
oh well...
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33040
The end of an era :'(
same info, i suspect
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2008/New+600cc+4+stroke+class+to+replace+250cc+from+2011
What happens when some of these 600cc machines start going faster than the tail-end of the 800cc grid?
Oh yeah, that's right: we'll laugh ;D
hey! leave the other ducati bikes out of this!
;)
Quote from: gm2 on June 27, 2008, 12:34:45 PM
hey! leave the other ducati bikes out of this!
;)
See, I was gonna make fun of Melandri in my post. But I just can't bring myself to do it. He's won multiple GP races...something's gotta be wrong for him to go so poorly.
...and I shudder to think that Gibernau might come back [bang]
Quote from: desmoquattro on June 27, 2008, 12:36:45 PM
...and I shudder to think that Gibernau might come back [bang]
he's ok as long as he can keep his head on straight.
Quote from: derby on June 27, 2008, 10:43:57 AM
but still 3 years away.
That's what GB said obout Hong Kong. It will sneak up fast.
Quote from: desmoquattro on June 27, 2008, 12:36:45 PM
See, I was gonna make fun of Melandri in my post. But I just can't bring myself to do it. He's won multiple GP races...something's gotta be wrong for him to go so poorly.
yup...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68689
but it's not like guintoli or elias are causing any of the other riders to lose sleep, either.
...or for that matter (last year) capi, hoffman, or barros
this all brings up an interesting point, if this is going to make this class closer to GP...will we see some folks staying in it rather than making the jump? Or some backmarkers moving down to be big fish in a little pond?
Quote from: sqweak on June 27, 2008, 02:35:19 PM
this all brings up an interesting point, if this is going to make this class closer to GP...will we see some folks staying in it rather than making the jump? Or some backmarkers moving down to be big fish in a little pond?
there have already been people that "made careers" in 250gp and either never bothered to move up to the big bikes or put it off for a loooooong time (like biaggi).
600cc V4's? that sounds like a tasty configuration. Maybe the manufactures will get creative with it.
Quote from: Beattie_Yoo on June 28, 2008, 09:43:09 AM
600cc V4's???? that sounds like a tasty configuration. Maybe the manufactures will get creative with it.
true the V configuration is popular in GP but not everyone uses it. why do you assume V here?
Quote from: gm2 on June 28, 2008, 09:53:01 AM
true the V configuration is popular in GP but not everyone uses it. why do you assume V here?
not assuming anything, just a thought. It would add some flavor to the mix, imo
Quote from: Beattie_Yoo on June 28, 2008, 05:08:57 PM
not assuming anything, just a thought. It would add some flavor to the mix, imo
I'm wondering whether the majority of 600s would settle into a V configuration like the 800s have? I wonder if the advantages are very big at that displacement level...
One thing's for sure: the costs will go up.
Quote from: desmoquattro on June 28, 2008, 05:37:00 PM
I'm wondering whether the majority of 600s would settle into a V configuration like the 800s have? I wonder if the advantages are very big at that displacement level...
One thing's for sure: the costs will go up.
you mean like
most of the 800s. yamaha is still an inline.
Quote from: desmoquattro on June 28, 2008, 05:37:00 PM
I'm wondering whether the majority of 600s would settle into a V configuration like the 800s have? I wonder if the advantages are very big at that displacement level...
One thing's for sure: the costs will go up.
Quote from: derby on June 28, 2008, 07:07:02 PM
you mean like most of the 800s. yamaha is still an inline.
That's pretty much what I said.
And the Kawi is an inline 4 as well.
From a marketing standpoint the manufacturers will love it! 600 is 600 regardless of configuration. You just have to know some good stuff will trickle down to the road bikes.
I miss the day when the FIM had 50, 80, 125, 250, 350, and 500cc classes.
Quote from: mac900 on June 29, 2008, 12:47:55 PM
From a marketing standpoint the manufacturers will love it! 600 is 600 regardless of configuration. You just have to know some good stuff will trickle down to the road bikes.
All mfg's
except the ones that dominate now (ktm and aprilla)
I think the 600 4strokes are going to be too big(fast) to replace the 250's. Maybe a 500cc 4sroke class would be cool?
mitt
Quote from: ADG on June 29, 2008, 07:04:14 PM
I miss the day when the FIM had 50, 80, 125, 250, 350, and 500cc classes.
750cc too....
Quote from: mitt on June 30, 2008, 01:34:24 PM
All mfg's except the ones that dominate now (ktm and aprilla)
I think the 600 4strokes are going to be too big(fast) to replace the 250's. Maybe a 500cc 4sroke class would be cool?
mitt
250 GP bikes are purportedly ~100HP, though some interesting reading here: http://www.zvmax.com/TrueHorsepower.htm
600 AMA spec engines ~100HP
What would a production based full factory 600-I4 make? 130HP?
Quote from: Speeddog on June 30, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
600 AMA spec engines ~100HP
What would a production based full factory 600-I4 make? 130HP?
i've heard the FX bikes are high 130s~low 140s. you're probably about right for a supersport 600.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 30, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
though some interesting reading here: http://www.zvmax.com/TrueHorsepower.htm
that page looks
really familiar.
Quote from: derby on June 30, 2008, 02:52:17 PM
i've heard the FX bikes are high 130s~low 140s. you're probably about right for a supersport 600.
bit higher. showroom stock 600s are more like 105.
Quote from: derby on June 30, 2008, 02:52:17 PM
you're probably about right for a supersport 600.
Dude, the built SS motors are pushing 120 as-is, they've been past 100 for some time now.
Quote from: darylbowden on June 30, 2008, 03:17:32 PM
Dude, the built SS motors are pushing 120 as-is, they've been past 100 for some time now.
catch up to the thread, homie.
we're talking about factory dyno/true horsepower vs dynojet horsepower. ;D
Quote from: Speeddog on June 30, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
http://www.zvmax.com/TrueHorsepower.htm
That is one of the ugliest and hardest to read pages ever. An abomination of web design and very poorly worded.