SPEED TV SCHEDULE
WSBK Race #1 2:00 PST
WSBK Race #2 3:00 PST
Free Practice
1. Jonathan Rea GBR Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 06.927s
2. James Toseland GBR Yamaha Sterilgarda YZF R1 2mins 07.104s
3. Leon Haslam GBR Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 2mins 07.542s
4. Cal Crutchlow GBR Yamaha Sterilgarda YZF R1 2mins 07.645s
5. Troy Corser AUS BMW Motorrad S1000RR 2mins 07.689s
6. Shane Byrne GBR Althea Ducati 1198 2mins 07.928s
7. Carlos Checa ESP Althea Ducati 1198 2mins 08.018s
8. Leon Camier GBR Aprilia Alitalia Racing RSV-4 2mins 08.119s
9. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki SRT ZX-10R 2mins 08.259s
10. Noriyuki Haga JPN Ducati Xerox 1198 2mins 08.314s
11. Luca Scassa ITA Supersonic Ducati 1198 2mins 08.327s
12. Jakub Smrz CZE PATA B&G Racing Aprilia RSV-4 2mins 08.379
13. Michel Fabrizio ITA Ducati Xerox 1198 2mins 08.587s
14. Max Neukirchner GER Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 08.606s
15. Josh Brookes AUS HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 09.060
16. Lorenzo Lanzi ITA DFX Ducati 1198 2mins 09.250s
17. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 2mins 09.279s
18. Max Biaggi ITA Aprilia Alitalia Racing RSV-4 2mins 09.287s
19. Broc Parkes AUS Echo-CRS Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 09.585s
20. Ruben Xaus ESP BMW Motorrad S1000RR 2mins 09.649s
21. Ryuichi Kiyonari JPN HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 10.069
22. Roger Lee Hayden USA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 2mins 10.755s
23. Tommy Bridewell GBR Tyco Racing Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 11.232
24. Matteo Baiocco ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 2mins 12.725s
25. Akira Yanagawa JPN Kawasaki SRT ZX-10R 2mins 13.765s
Supersport Free Practice
1. Eugene Laverty IRL Parkalgar Honda CBR600RR 2mins 10.751s
2. Joan Lascorz ESP Kawasaki Motocard ZX-6R 2mins 11.380s
3. Billy McConnell AUS CAME Yamaha YZF-R6 2mins 11.721s
4. Miguel Praia POR Parkalgar Honda CBR600RR 2mins 12.008s
5. James Westmoreland GBR CAME Yamaha YZF-R6 2mins 12.095s
6. Chaz Davies GBR Triumph BE1 Racing 675 2mins 12.114s
7. Gino Rea GBR Intermoto Czech Honda CBR600RR 2mins 12.131s
8. Roberto Tamburini ITA Bike Service Yamaha YZF-R6 2mins 12.282s
9. Kenan Sofuoglu TUR HANNspree Ten Kate Honda CBR600RR 2mins 12.406s
10. Sam Lowes GBR GNS Honda CBR600RR 2mins 12.576s
11. Fabien Foret FRA Lorenzini Kawasaki ZX-6R 2mins 12.589s
12. Matthieu Lagrive FRA Triumph BE1 Racing 675 2mins 12.762s
13. David Salom ESP Triumph BE1 Racing 675 2mins 13.141s
14. Robbin Harms DEN Harms Benjan Honda CBR600RR 2mins 13.182s
15. Ronan Quarmby RSA HANNspree Ten Kate Honda CBR600RR 2mins 13.533s
16. Vittorio Iannuzzo ITA Triumph BE1 Racing 675 2mins 13.833s
17. Katsuaki Fujiwara JPN Kawasaki Motocard ZX-6R 2mins 13.845s
18. Mark Aitchison AUS Kuja Honda CBR600RR 2mins 14.1423s
19. Alex Lowes GBR Seton Interceptor Yamaha YZF-R6 2mins 14.759s
20. Massimo Roccoli ITA Intermoto Czech Honda CBR600RR 2mins 14.811
21. Alexander Lundh SWE Cresto Guide Honda CBR600RR 2mins 15.572s
22. Max Hunt GBR Race Lab Yamaha YZF-R6 2mins 15.863s
23. Imre Toth HUN Team Toth Honda CBR600RR 2mins 15.890s
24. Bastien Chesaux SUI Harms Benjan Honda CBR600RR 2mins 15.940s
25. Jenny Tinmouth GBR Sorrymate.com Honda CBR600RR 2mins 16.251s
26. Christian Iddon GBR Parkalgar Honda CBR600RR 2mins 16.310s
27. Ian Lowry GBR IFS/Lowe Racedays Yamaha YZF-R6 2mins 16.741s
28. Danilo Dell'Omo ITA Kuja Honda CBR600RR 2mins 22.629s
WSBK Qualifying 1
1. Cal Crutchlow GBR Yamaha Sterilgarda YZF R1 2mins 05.664s
2. Jonathan Rea GBR Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 06.006s
3. Troy Corser AUS BMW Motorrad S1000RR 2mins 06.052s
4. Leon Camier GBR Aprilia Alitalia Racing RSV-4 2mins 06.064s
5. Michel Fabrizio ITA Ducati Xerox 1198 2mins 06.088s
6. James Toseland GBR Yamaha Sterilgarda YZF R1 2mins 06.238s
7. Max Biaggi ITA Aprilia Alitalia Racing RSV-4 2mins 06.315s
8. Leon Haslam GBR Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 2mins 06.464s
9. Carlos Checa ESP Althea Ducati 1198 2mins 06.475s
10. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki SRT ZX-10R 2mins 06.596s
11. Lorenzo Lanzi ITA DFX Ducati 1198 2mins 06.699s
12. Noriyuki Haga JPN Ducati Xerox 1198 2mins 06.803s
13. Shane Byrne GBR Althea Ducati 1198 2mins 06.952s
14. Jakub Smrz CZE PATA B&G Racing Aprilia RSV-4 2mins 06.988
15. Luca Scassa ITA Supersonic Ducati 1198 2mins 07.042s
16. Ruben Xaus ESP BMW Motorrad S1000RR 2mins 07.101s
17. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 2mins 07.107s
18. Max Neukirchner GER Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 07.325s
19. Broc Parkes AUS Echo-CRS Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 07.538s
20. Roger Lee Hayden USA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 2mins 07.677s
21. Josh Brookes AUS HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 07.798
22. Ryuichi Kiyonari JPN HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 09.165
23. Matteo Baiocco ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 2mins 10.431s
24. Tommy Bridewell GBR Tyco Racing Honda CBR1000RR 2mins 11.057
25. Akira Yanagawa JPN Kawasaki SRT ZX-10R 2mins 11.230s
7 of the top 10 in FP1 and 6 of 10 in Q1 were Brits. [laugh] Anyone wanna take bets on an all Brit podium?
Sorry to threadjack but I see that Honda CBR 600RR are doing pretty well in World Supersport, how come there aren't very many Honda CBR 600's in AMA Daytona Sportbike class? Or for that matter how come we don't see many CBR 1000RR in AMA superbikes...
Honda pulled out of AMA.
Check it out: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38149 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38149)
via ten kate honda has been destroying WSS for years. they don't need to fund regional teams (much).
erion etc ran their own (somewhat supported) thing in the AMA until they stopped getting any help whatsoever -- and the bikes became totally boring.
I knew Honda pulled out of the AMA with their factory efforts...I'm just surprised that their aren't any privateers running Honda's. Does this mean that all the GSXR's and Yamaha's in the AMA get some sort of factory support?
Quote from: Roy on July 30, 2010, 06:38:46 PM
I knew Honda pulled out of the AMA with their factory efforts...I'm just surprised that their aren't any privateers running Honda's. Does this mean that all the GSXR's and Yamaha's in the AMA get some sort of factory support?
there's not a lot of incentive to run hondas in either the ama or club racing series, especially compared to what is offered by yamaha and suzuki:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/racing/RoadRace_Contingency.aspx (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/racing/RoadRace_Contingency.aspx)
http://www.suzukicycles.com/en/Racing/Road%20Racing/~/media/Documents/Contingency/Road%20Racing/Schedule/2010%20Road%20Race%20Schedule%20FINAL4.1.10.ashx (http://www.suzukicycles.com/en/Racing/Road%20Racing/~/media/Documents/Contingency/Road%20Racing/Schedule/2010%20Road%20Race%20Schedule%20FINAL4.1.10.ashx)
http://powersports.honda.com/documents/Contingency/2010_road-race.pdf (http://powersports.honda.com/documents/Contingency/2010_road-race.pdf)
What's up with Haga this year? Talk about up and down. I know this could be a whole thread on it's own but I just saw the WSBK Superpole results and was shocked to see where Haga qualified. I won't say where even though spoilers are allowed on this thread. Interesting a private Aprilla out-q'd the factory boys! [thumbsup] Qualy is one thing but it's always the races that count. I've seen poor grid positions turn into great podium results 100 times. Hope Haga makes the most of it. [clap] Just a funny season for him for sure, especially after last year's stellar performance. Puzzling evidence.
Qualifying
Pos No. Rider Bike Time Diff
1 35 C. Crutchlow Yamaha YZF R1 2'04.091
2 65 J. Rea Honda CBR1000RR 2'04.763 0.672
3 84 M. Fabrizio Ducati 1098R 2'05.083 0.992
4 96 J. Smrz Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'05.168 1.077
5 91 L. Haslam Suzuki GSX-R1000 2'05.595 1.504
6 3 M. Biaggi Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'05.682 1.591
7 11 T. Corser BMW S1000 RR 2'05.740 1.649
8 111 R. Xaus BMW S1000 RR 2'06.787 2.696
Out after Superpole 2
9 67 S. Byrne Ducati 1098R 2'05.026 0.649
10 7 C. Checa Ducati 1098R 2'05.035 0.658
11 50 S. Guintoli Suzuki GSX-R1000 2'05.066 0.689
12 52 J. Toseland Yamaha YZF R1 2'05.397 1.020
13 66 T. Sykes Kawasaki ZX 10R 2'05.564 1.187
14 57 L. Lanzi Ducati 1098R 2'05.903 1.526
15 41 N. Haga Ducati 1098R 2'06.425 2.048
16 2 L. Camier Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'10.663 6.286
Out after Superpole 1
16 57 L. Lanzi Ducati 1098R 2'06.060 1.480
17 25 J. Brookes Honda CBR1000RR 2'06.271 1.691
18 76 M. Neukirchner Honda CBR1000RR 2'07.041 2.461
19 23 B. Parkes Honda CBR1000RR 2'07.636 3.056
20 99 L. Scassa Ducati 1098R
Out of Superpole
21 95 R. Hayden Kawasaki ZX 10R 2'07.677 2.013
22 8 R. Kiyonari Honda CBR1000RR 2'08.689 3.025
23 15 M. Baiocco Kawasaki ZX 10R 2'10.431 4.767
24 46 T. Bridewell Honda CBR1000RR 2'11.057 5.393
25 87 A. Yanagawa Kawasaki ZX 10R 2'11.230 5.566
Looking at the times between SP2 and SP3, it looks like a lot of guys are burning through their qualifiers just to get to the final 8.
Damn, Cal, WTF?!? Second row of the MotoGP grid on a SBK? I know you can't compare day to day with temp differences and all, but WOW. :o
Nice to see Xaus back on it. [thumbsup]
You know Kiyonari was hoping it would be wet. ;D
Toseland is having a bad year.
Quote from: Spidey on July 31, 2010, 12:30:42 PM
Damn, Cal, WTF?!? Second row of the MotoGP grid on a SBK? I know you can't compare day to day with temp differences and all, but WOW.
You have to admit Silverstone is the perfect place for the sbk's to really stretch their legs and close the gap on the 800's.
re haga.. not that he isn't broken and will be looking for a new job next year... in the past it didn't matter how badly he qualified. he'd be up p2 by about lap 5. sad.
i really hope cal can turn that qualy lap into a race...
Interesting results in race 1. No spoilers here but I'm looking forward to catching it on the dvr later. Haga...wtf? [bang]
More of the same in race two. I'm still liking the results! [thumbsup]
I can't believe Aprilia pulled out team orders on Leon Camier on his home race. Biaggi is 50+ points clear for crying out loud... like he cares if Camier finishes ahead of him.
Forgot to add, Cal Crutchlow coming around the last corner drifting he bike the whole way on to the straight...
make the beast with two backsing awesome!! [bow_down]
Very impressive rides by crutchlow. I guess the temp helped preserve the rear tire, or do they finally have the R1 sorted? We'll see.
As for haga, this just gets sadder and sadder.
Yeah, what happened to Haga? Medicore through practice, qualy and both races??? Not typical Haga style at all. Granted the Ducs did better in race one than in race two. Don't recall this being a bad Duc track or one that Haga hates. Maybe all the changes and updates to Silverstone just didn't favor Haga or the bikes. It certainly was an all Brit track for sure! For everyone except poor Camier in race one... although he made up for it in race two!! [thumbsup] No orders that time around. ;D
Quote from: tufty on August 01, 2010, 04:33:30 PM
Forgot to add, Cal Crutchlow coming around the last corner drifting he bike the whole way on to the straight...
make the beast with two backsing awesome!! [bow_down]
hellz yeah.. that was gorgeous [thumbsup]
Quote from: tufty on August 01, 2010, 04:19:00 PM
I can't believe Aprilia pulled out team orders on Leon Camier on his home race. Biaggi is 50+ points clear for crying out loud... like he cares if Camier finishes ahead of him.
i dunno. aprilia has put a shittton of money into that bike, this series, and max. they want to be SURE they're gonna win a title.. and while camier definitely had the pace he's also been inconsistent all year. "finish in front of max only if you can also finish in front of haslam" makes sense. this is only the 2nd year of that bike and their involvement in wsbk.. winning would be HUGE. they don't want to jeopardize that for anything.
plus, they probably don't get to run their gear-driven cams next year, so maybe this is their only shot ;)
Quote from: fastwin on August 02, 2010, 07:13:23 AM
Yeah, what happened to Haga? Medicore through practice, qualy and both races???
broken.
Go, Cal!!! Finally.
I love watching him ride. He's a total lunatic. This weekend, I kept thinkin' he was gonna toss it away in the last coupla laps, but he held it together beautifully. And what well-run races. In each, he just sat behind Rea so that those two could gap everyone. Once he knew it was just the two of them, he just kept running Rea's pace and saving the tire. With a couple to go, he went to the front and just uncorked it. In Race 2 in particular, I think he picked up nearly 1.5 seconds in a lap and half. :o
Did anyone see/hear what happened with RLH in Race 1?
Camier did a good job in Race 1 of sitting on Max's butt, not passing him and protecting him from riders behind. It was good to see that he was given the go-ahead for Race 2.
I liked that the Jonathan Greene (or was it Steve Martin) was giving douchebrizio shit for pulling in the pits. They basically said "If the bike isn't in six pieces, stay out on track and get some points, ya fackin' poosy."
Toseland said he held back from being more aggressive in Race 2 b/c he didn't want to screw up Haslam's championships. Really?? I mean, he had a shot at the podium.
The points are starting to look a little more like they should. The Ducatis are sliding and Cal and Camier are moving up. I couldn't believe that Haga and Fabrizio stayed as high up as they should.
Quote from: Spidey on August 02, 2010, 07:56:13 AM
I liked that the Jonathan Greene (or was it Steve Martin) was giving douchebrizio shit for pulling in the pits. They basically said "If the bike isn't in six pieces, stay out on track and get some points, ya fackin' poosy."
martin.
"if i were a team manager i'd think he's a little too anxious to head to the showers".. something to that effect. ouch.
and yeah, esp in race 2, cal's racecraft was awesome. maybe he took some cues from the guy who predicted he would win this weekend...
Quote from: gm2 on August 02, 2010, 08:04:19 AM
...maybe he took some cues from the guy who predicted he would win this weekend...
[thumbsup]
Quote from: gm2 on August 02, 2010, 07:43:43 AM
plus, they probably don't get to run their gear-driven cams next year, so maybe this is their only shot ;)
Heh, yeah I keep forgetting that they're running a cheater bike.
Homologation? What's that? [roll]
Quote from: tufty on August 02, 2010, 08:49:40 AM
Heh, yeah I keep forgetting that they're running a cheater bike.
Homologation? What's that? [roll]
What's the main difference? Just the gear driven cams? I honestly don't know.
Hell, look at the R1...the fuel cell is in a completely different location than on the streetbike.
Quote from: Triple J on August 02, 2010, 09:05:42 AM
Hell, look at the R1...the fuel cell is in a completely different location than on the streetbike.
yeah but that's legal. the mod rules are very flexible in wsbk (on certain things)
Quote from: Triple J on August 02, 2010, 09:05:42 AM
What's the main difference? Just the gear driven cams? I honestly don't know.
last year, there was a lot of speculation that the rsv was deeply rooted in an abandoned aprilia motogp project...
some complaints from last year:
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/alstare-suzuki-cries-foul-aprilia-rsv4-homologation/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/alstare-suzuki-cries-foul-aprilia-rsv4-homologation/)
and something more current:
http://motomatters.com/news/2010/07/31/wsbk_2011_rule_changes_include_an_end_to.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2010/07/31/wsbk_2011_rule_changes_include_an_end_to.html)
Interesting reading. Thanks. [thumbsup]
I don't see the big deal though regarding the cams. So long as Aprilia actually offers an aftermarket gear driven cam kit, then whatever. Aprilia's RSV4 Factory costs $20K. Ducati runs an 1198R...which costs twice that and surely has all sorts of fancy internal parts that the standard models don't. Aprilia can just release 250 $40K homologation version bikes next year if they want to keep the cams....they don't have to revamp all of the RSV4s to gear drive as I read it.
Correct?
Quote from: Triple J on August 02, 2010, 11:13:45 AM
Aprilia can just release 250 $40K homologation version bikes next year if they want to keep the cams....they don't have to revamp all of the RSV4s to gear drive as I read it.
Correct?
That's what the 1198R is. A $40k homologation special. The RSV4 Factory is more akin to the 1198s.
I think the rules in question may specifically regard to gear-driven cams no?
they would have to offer a street bike with those cams.
The rule had originally read "The method of cam drive (chain, belt or gears) must remain as on the homologated motorcycle unless a complete kit is available through normal commercial channels" but the last part of the sentence - "unless a complete kit is available through normal commercial channels" - has been dropped.
Aprilia's use of gear-driven cams has been controversial from the start. The original cylinders are supplied with the machining required to fit the gear drive as standard, but use a chain drive to keep production costs down. The Aprilia's V4 configuration makes this even more costly, requiring two sets of gears for each bank of cylinders, and so fitting gear-driven cams to the road bike would add considerably to the basic price. Fitted as an aftermarket race kit, the gear-driven cams allow the RSV to attain higher revs and allow for more precise cam timing. The RSV4 has been fast from the start of the season, but since the Alitalia Aprilia started using the gear drive, the disparity with the other bikes has grown.
To put an end to the arguments, the Superbike Commission has prohibited fitting aftermarket kits, and all World Superbike machines must use the cam drive fitted as standard. Of course, this does not prevent Aprilia from using gear-driven camshafts completely, but it does require that the RSV4 be sold with the gear drive as standard, something which Aprilia may be less keen to do.
Quote from: desmoquattro on August 02, 2010, 11:16:46 AM
That's what the 1198R is. A $40k homologation special. The RSV4 Factory is more akin to the 1198s.
I think the rules in question may specifically regard to gear-driven cams no?
Right...that's what I said. Add the factory available gear drive kit...and you have something closer to the 1198R. Ducati made the requirement by offering a full blown R version...Aprilia did it by just offering a kit. Seems reasonable since Aprilia has a smaller market and it would be harder for them to sell 250 "R bikes" than for Ducati to do so.
Next year they can just offer a limited run of bikes with the gear drive (akin to the 1198R) and keep them.
edit...I'm not saying the 1198R has gear drive...just that its fancy internal parts are akin to Aprilia's gear drive system.
Quote from: Triple J on August 02, 2010, 11:43:51 AM
Right...that's what I said. Add the factory available gear drive kit...and you have something closer to the 1198R. Ducati made the requirement by offering a full blown R version...Aprilia did it by just offering a kit. Seems reasonable since Aprilia has a smaller market and it would be harder for them to sell 250 "R bikes" than for Ducati to do so.
Next year they can just offer a limited run of bikes with the gear drive (akin to the 1198R) and keep them.
edit...I'm not saying the 1198R has gear drive...just that its fancy internal parts are akin to Aprilia's gear drive system.
I
wish the 1198R had gear drive ;D
Quote from: desmoquattro on August 02, 2010, 12:03:02 PM
I wish the 1198R had gear drive ;D
That's the rumor for the 2011 version. [evil]
Someone correct me if I've got this wrong. . .
I thought the homologation rules changed for 2010. Basically, they upped the number of bikes you have to sell -- something like 3,000. IIRC, not that many 1098Rs are sold. To solve the homologation problem, the 1198S incorporates a lot of 1098R technology, so that they can race a hopped up 1198 in WSBK.
Aprilia and BMW were given a pass on the new, more stringent homologation rules because they were new teams. But Aprilia took advantage of that free-pass to really, really hop up their RSV-4 with gear-driven cams. I'm not saying they broke the rules, but it's not a level playing field.
Now that Aprilia is going to win the championship, they should be required to meet the homologations rules. If the 1098R can't run in WSBK, the RSVR-4R (i.e. limited edition RSV-4 with gear driven cams) shouldn't be able to run unless it can meet those same requirements.
Quote from: Spidey on August 02, 2010, 12:48:44 PM
Now that Aprilia is going to win the championship, they should be required to meet the homologations rules. If the 1098R can't run in WSBK, the RSVR-4R (i.e. limited edition RSV-4 with gear driven cams) shouldn't be able to run unless it can meet those same requirements.
...or just give us
all gear-driven cams and be done with it [evil]
Technology
is supposed to trickle down, ya know... ;D
Quote from: desmoquattro on August 02, 2010, 01:06:37 PM
...or just give us all gear-driven cams and be done with it [evil]
Technology is supposed to trickle down, ya know... ;D
they're not gonna "give" anything, but you can pay for it...
i mean, you
can pay for it right? you've already got one of them newfangled $40k 1198Rs, right?
fwiw, gear-driven cams aren't new technology. hell, the pre-2002 honda vfr (streetbike) had gear-driven cams.
Quote from: derby on August 02, 2010, 02:08:29 PM
i mean, you can pay for it right? you've already got one of them newfangled $40k 1198Rs, right?
I have one of them newfangled $17,000 used 1198s' that comes complete with a thrown rod and a warranty repair.
Quote from: derby on August 02, 2010, 02:08:29 PM
fwiw, gear-driven cams aren't new technology. hell, the pre-2002 honda vfr (streetbike) had gear-driven cams.
Yep. Hitler knew it too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1pq-ZBeGc#t=2m05s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1pq-ZBeGc#t=2m05s)
And like it was mentioned earlier the new Duc SBK is supposed to have some sort of semi gear driven cam set up right? I read that in a recent cycle mag. I wish all my Ducs were gear driven. [bang] That would put the damn belt manufacturer out of business. [laugh] Is there anyone else but me that thinks Ducati has a two year built in obsolescence in those cam belt's life span? Kind of like batteries and light bulbs. You want to risk bouncing your expensive Duc valves off of your expensive Duc pistons by not getting the belts replaced every two years regardless of mileage? :P UGH... I love my Ducatis but I wish they had my Jap SBK service intervals and needs. Let's see... gas, air in the tires, yeah, there's some oil in there, tires still have tread. OK, I'm good for another 5,000 miles. ;D
Quote from: desmoquattro on August 02, 2010, 02:18:05 PM
I have one of them newfangled $17,000 used 1198s' that comes complete with a thrown rod and a warranty repair.
Yep. Hitler knew it too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1pq-ZBeGc#t=2m05s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1pq-ZBeGc#t=2m05s)
Damn, that video still cracks me up and I've watched it 20+ times!!! My wife even came in and asked me what I was now laughing at on the DMF board. She knew... she's heard me bust out too many times before! The DML/VS sell out version of that is even funnier. No, please don't post it. My sides couldn't take the laughter!! [laugh]
I'm sure the $ for that Aprilia gear-drive kit will buy a make the beast with two backston of belts.
Quote from: Speeddog on August 02, 2010, 03:50:50 PM
I'm sure the $ for that Aprilia gear-drive kit will buy a make the beast with two backston of belts.
[thumbsup]
Either way Aprilia is at worst cheating or at best being very unsportsmanlike.
Jes sayin'.
Cheating is neither sportsmanlike or something to take pride in unless it involves death. [thumbsup] [wine]
if they don't meet the homologation #'s or requirements(which could be argued I am sure)...could they then take a title away from the rider or just the constructors title?
Quote from: tufty on August 02, 2010, 04:20:51 PM
Either way Aprilia is at worst cheating or at best being very unsportsmanlike.
Jes sayin'.
Explain how. The current rule states:
"The method of cam drive (chain, belt or gears) must remain as on the homologated motorcycle unless a complete kit is available through normal commercial channels" This is exactly what they did...make a kit available. Just like any other manufacturer could have done. Unless the kit costs >$20K, then getting an RSV4 Factory + the kit is still cheaper than an 1198R.
Sounds to me like the other manufacturers are just whining because they're getting beat. Same as Rea whining in this month's Cycle World about the Ducatis "sandbagging" to get a 3 kg weight reduction. [roll]
Next year is a different story, as the kit language has been removed...but it seems very legal for 2010. I fail to see how its unsportsmanlike either. They're within the rules, and racing is all about having the advantage.
There was a legitimate question whether they were breaking the rules earlier in the season. But once that language was inserted re the "commercial kit", they were golden. I'll still keep refering to it as a cheater bike, but it legal. I can't see how following the rules to build the most competitive bike possible is unsportsmanlike. If the gripe is with the rulemaking, blame the rulemakers, not Aprilia.
Again, the 1198R cannot be raced in WSBK. So saying that a RSV4 with a cam kit is the same cost as an 1198R isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. Cuz an gear cammed RSV4 is also less than a Desmosedici, which they could not run in a WSBK. And it's more than a Hayabusa, which they also cannot run in WSBK.
Quote from: Spidey on August 03, 2010, 06:41:00 AM
If the gripe is with the rulemaking, blame the rulemakers, not Aprilia.
+1
Quote from: Spidey on August 03, 2010, 06:41:00 AM
Again, the 1198R cannot be raced in WSBK.
I must have missed that. When did that happen, and what's the point of offering one then?
Quote from: Triple J on August 03, 2010, 06:45:10 AM
I must have missed that. When did that happen, and what's the point of offering one then?
I'm not sure what the point of offering it is, but it'll will sell. The new homologation rules require sales of 3000 units. I don't think Ducati got a break from that requirement and there's no way they'll sell 3k 1198Rs. That's why the 1198S has a lot of the stuff from the 1098R , so that Ducati can use that as a base for a WSBK bike. Otherwise, the 1198S would be a lower-spec bike and they'd just toss all the good stuff on the 1198R.
Quote from: Spidey on August 03, 2010, 06:53:25 AM
I'm not sure what the point of offering it is, but it'll will sell. The new homologation rules require sales of 3000 units. I don't think Ducati got a break from that requirement and there's no way they'll sell 3k 1198Rs. That's why the 1198S has a lot of the stuff from the 1098R , so that Ducati can use that as a base for a WSBK bike. Otherwise, the 1198S would be a lower-spec bike and they'd just toss all the good stuff on the 1198R.
You don't have to hit the sales number every year. I believe once a bike has been homologated, it has something like an 8 year window to be raced.
Where are you getting that from?
Edit: I didn't find that bit about the sales number. But I found the rule that says that homologation is good for 5 years and you can ask for a 2 year extension after that.
Quote from: Spidey on August 03, 2010, 07:32:40 AM
Where are you getting that from?
Edit: I didn't find that bit about the sales number. But I found the rule that says that homologation is good for 5 years and you can ask for a 2 year extension after that.
I don't have an exact source, I was just going off memory as I believed you only have to hit homologation requirements once for a certain bike. Your window of 5+2 is probably what I'm thinking of. Anyway, I swear its not a yearly number for a model. I think its just a one time threshhold.
Quote from: desmoquattro on August 02, 2010, 12:03:02 PM
I wish the 1198R had gear drive ;D
Quote from: Triple J on August 02, 2010, 12:03:50 PM
That's the rumor for the 2011 version. [evil]
I I think that is the "SuperQuadrata" motor that is being developed and this is what I could find about it...
... The Superquadrata (over square) motor will be a radical over square twin with the cylinders canted rearwards. Rotating the cylinders thus would make the mass of the bike more compact with the benefits associated with this such as mass centralisation. It will also allow the motor to be moved forward to put more weight over the front wheel and allow a longer swing arm for increased stability. It should also allow for a cassette type gearbox, something the older engines have lacked and will allow for easier and quicker gear ratio changes.
It is understood that the new motor will have a stroke of just 60.6mm and a soup plate piston size of 112mm giving a capacity of 1194cc. The current bike is 67.9 x 106mm. The engine is highly likely to feature gear driven cams, a move away from belts which require changing before every race/practice.
It is also speculated that this new engine may be mated to Ducati's carbon fibre frame with the engine providing the only connection between front and rear wheels.... and given what Del Torchio said here -> http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/10q3/rossi_to_ducati_in_2011_confirmed (http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/10q3/rossi_to_ducati_in_2011_confirmed)!_plus_inside_the_new_mega-monster_-_first_look/ducati_project_0803-_new_ducati_project_motorcycle_page_2
...We knew that we were going to face a tough year in World Superbike. The new rules don't help; someone was allowed to bend them, and our 1198 has reached its ultimate potential. In two years, we shall be ready with our new 1200cc Twin....I think it lends some weight to that thought as a little more than just idle banter when you add everything together...but not for 2011, but for 2012.
Quote from: zooom on August 04, 2010, 03:15:50 AM
and given what Del Torchio said here -> http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/10q3/rossi_to_ducati_in_2011_confirmed (http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/10q3/rossi_to_ducati_in_2011_confirmed)!_plus_inside_the_new_mega-monster_-_first_look/ducati_project_0803-_new_ducati_project_motorcycle_page_2
...We knew that we were going to face a tough year in World Superbike. The new rules don't help; someone was allowed to bend them, and our 1198 has reached its ultimate potential. In two years, we shall be ready with our new 1200cc Twin....
I think it lends some weight to that thought as a little more than just idle banter when you add everything together...but not for 2011, but for 2012.
Saw that too...and immediately regretted buying a 2009 :)
I finally watched the SS race last night. Three comments:
1) Lascorz is soooo lucky he didn't get more f'd up. That looked awful.
2) Sofogolu--as usual--seems to be able to drop lap record laps any time he pleases. WTF? He ate up that gap like it was nothing.
3) Laverty has some serious balls, waving Keenan into the lead. Between the SS race and Cal's races in WSBK, we saw some seriously smart racing. It's different than when they're banging fairings and passing each other every turn. But it's a a pleasure to watch. I feel like we don't see enough of it.
I watched the SS race last night also! It was GREAT! I also loved it when Laverty backed off to let Kenan go through. Awesome shit for sure. Yeah, what a ballsy move and he made it work... all the more ballsy and awesome!
God awful wreck on the first lap. I can't believe both Lascorz and Tamburini even survived that. Holy shit! When Tamburini bounced off that wall I just thought "shit, he's dead!" I know they mentioned what the injuries might have been but does anyone on here know for a fact what they were and how long they will be out?
Besides that incident it was a great race weekend in Silverstone! Loved the Crutchlow Show in WSBK. Great race smarts! Beautifully done by both Cal and Eugene! [thumbsup] [clap] [bow_down]
Speaking of World Supersport, anyone know why there are so few (maybe 2) Yamahas on the grid and zero Suzukis? Half or more of the field is always CBR600s with the rest being Triumph Daytonas and Kawi ZX6s. Do the rules favor the CBRs that much? Or does Honda funnel that much support to all the teams? Just curious...
Quote from: fastwin on August 04, 2010, 11:28:21 AM
Speaking of World Supersport, anyone know why there are so few (maybe 2) Yamahas on the grid and zero Suzukis? Half or more of the field is always CBR600s with the rest being Triumph Daytonas and Kawi ZX6s. Do the rules favor the CBRs that much? Or does Honda funnel that much support to all the teams? Just curious...
I am betting it has somewhat to do with the support/development from the factories, but it also has to do with the the money those manufacturers are putting into those machines in general...Honda is probably muling some development through Moto2 and well Suzuki...well..when was the last time the GXSR's got any kind of upgrade/update?...Kawasaki has done better with the SS bikes than their SBK's for the last few years for some unforseen reason...maybe i is a matter of priority or what...I have no clue...
Speaking of the Silverstone SS race, what happened to that thread about the crash? Am I missing it somewhere? :P