This may go nowhere but is anyone else somewhat less excited about Moto2 than 250GP? I damn sure am. I'm in the middle of watching the German Moto2 race and I feel like I'm watching a bad AMA Supersport race. It's a limp dick Formula Xtreme race! Do you actually see this as a "grooming" class for future MotoGP 1000cc racers? I damn sure don't. Do you see any future Lorenzos, Pedrosas, Simoncellis, etc out there? I don't. Tony Elias is the only star I see and he went down to run in that class. [bang] Sorry... just really disappointed in this class. Can't wait 'til they butcher the 125 class. :P
Thank God for WSBK!! [thumbsup]
I really like Moto2. There have been some great races this season.
Moto2 Rewind: Catalunya; HD sample! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDjMlamhynk#normal)
Ah, this one seems to be a AMA Supersport crash-fest. Besides Elias who really belongs here... in the "you are being groomed to go to 1000cc MotoGP"? I'm blind to see who's next in line with this group. [bang] This class is just weak. Like it if you want to. I just don't... I'll delete this crap and watch AMA MX... thank you very much. DORNA, wake up!!!! You're loosing it. Better hang onto Rossi otherwise you are done!! ;D My worthless two cents... [popcorn]
I really like Moto2 as well. [thumbsup]
I don't see how the 250 class was any better for grooming future MotoGP riders...especially with the switch back to 1000cc.
There has been some good racing in Moto2 this year and a very heavy grid which is a good thing. I don't see any issues with it... and hopefully they will find a way to bring the moto2 machines to Laguna. Talented riders work around the machinery anyway, its not holding anyone back.
I think our biggest worry was lack of drama and some good racing that we came to expect from 250's. We still seem to have both.
Quote from: Jester on August 08, 2010, 09:40:35 PM
...and hopefully they will find a way to bring the moto2 machines to Laguna.
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100804b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100804b.htm)
OK, maybe the word crap in the title is a little strong, I'll re-title it. I'll blame that on my third top shelf margarita I had with dinner! [laugh] Doesn't quite qualify for the official I'm drunk thread but I guess I was badly waxing nostalgic for the old 250GP class. I'm just overloaded on Honda 600cc inline four racing. And I do think the 250GP class "groomed" riders well to move up to MotoGP... at least in it's 800cc format. Probably better than WSBK. It will be interesting to see who takes to the new 1000cc format. I guess this thread can turn into the Moto2 thread. I don't think there is one, nor is there one for World Supersport. Oh well, end of 600cc rant. ;D
If you're concerned about the quality of the Moto2 grid, in part that's because a huge group of the promising/interesting 250 riders moved up to GP last year-- Aoyama, Simoncelli, Bautista, Barbera. There hadn't been significant 250 -->GP movement in the prior couple of years. A new crop of Moto2 stars will arise shortly.
I think Moto2 has been awesome. There are routinely 5 guys dicing it out all race until and through the last lap.
Yeah, maybe I'm just being pissy but you are probably right, it just needs time to develop. As sad as it was for 250GP to go the way of the dinosaur I was hoping this could be a really cool class. Maybe my expectations were a little high for the first season. And you are also right that the best of the best left the 250 class over the last couple of years for MotoGP. You know it's funny, I enjoy the World Supersport races much more than Moto2. I think the talent runs a little deeper in WSS. Hopefully Moto2 will get there. Obviously it does already for some. [moto] Hey, you enjoy what you enjoy. Good enough. [thumbsup]
OK, I still go with my first impression of this class. I am just now finally watching the Indy Moto2 dumbmake the beast with two backs crashfest and I'm not 5-6 laps into it. Where did they get these riders? There is no way in hell some of the riders could possibly make it through the turns they are riding and they just t-bone the hell out of other riders left and right. The front group is OK but 75% of the other riders shouldn't even be there. :P They really need to not let every rider with two legs and a heart beat compete in this class. It's pretty embarrassing. Sad...
Quote from: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PMThe front group is OK but 75% of the other riders shouldn't even be there.
If they did that, then it would be a yawn fest like MotoGP. ;)
Im getting frustrated with the way they just send them off to crash. Its predicatble what will happen in turn one damn near every race. The formula for massive crashes is clearly there and it shouldnt be.
Ianonne is awesome
Quote from: avizpls on September 03, 2010, 06:57:00 PM
Im getting frustrated with the way they just send them off to crash. Its predicatble what will happen in turn one damn near every race. The formula for massive crashes is clearly there and it shouldnt be.
Maybe they should have a bike limit on the grid. I don't know, maybe 20 max. Or have some sort of qualy time cut off. You have to qualify within X% of the pole time. It's not like the leaders are lapping the back markers on the 10th lap but damn, I couldn't believe some of the f'ed up lines in crowded turns some guys were taking! They weren't riding to pass riders, they were riding to crash into them! There is no way some of those guys could have made it through the turns on an empty track much less one with riders elbow to asshole three deep in a turn! I have never seen a more crash filled GP race. Not even ones run in the wet. The words frustration and embarassment come to mind. Admitedly decent racing up front but the rest was just damn hard to watch. How can DORNA put up with a race like that?
^^ Here are the retirements from the Indy race. It wasn't as bad as you think.
Retirements:
Mashel Al Naimi BQR 12 laps
Jules Cluzel Suter 11 laps
Ratthapark Wilairot Bimota 8 laps
Raffaele De Rosa Tech 3 6 laps
Stefan Bradl Suter 5 laps
Ricard Cardus Bimota 2 laps
Yusuke Teshima Motobi 2 laps
Hector Faubel Suter 1 lap
Alex Debon FTR 1 lap
Vladimir Ivanov Moriwaki 1 lap
Shoya Tomizawa Suter 0 laps
Michael Ranseder Suter 0 laps
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm)
Good pic and comment. [laugh]
Quote from: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm)
Good pic and comment. [laugh]
It's called "Racing" the driver with the most talent wins. :D Unlike the winner being 3.5sec ahead. ;)
Quote from: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
OK, I still go with my first impression of this class. I am just now finally watching the Indy Moto2 dumbmake the beast with two backs crashfest and I'm not 5-6 laps into it. Where did they get these riders? There is no way in hell some of the riders could possibly make it through the turns they are riding and they just t-bone the hell out of other riders left and right. The front group is OK but 75% of the other riders shouldn't even be there. :P They really need to not let every rider with two legs and a heart beat compete in this class. It's pretty embarrassing. Sad...
Translation:
Quote from: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
*Grumble, grumble, grumble* These young whippersnappers and their CHANGE! *shakes walking cane* They think they can come in and change the way things have been for the past 40 years!?!?!? They got another thing coming! *Sits back down in rocking chair and reminisces about the good old days*
The "Allstars" do it as well. ;)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/CRASHES.jpg)
OK that's funny as shit!! [laugh] Jesus can get away with that because it's kinda true!! [laugh] Everyone knows old make the beast with two backsers don't like change or young whippersnappers. Duh! You will all have your day!!!! There will come a day when you all yell at kids to get off your lawn!!! God dammit!!! [cheeky]
At least I can still laugh at myself... not sure how long that lasts before I can't find my way home or remember my name. [popcorn]
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 12:43:10 PM
The "Allstars" do it as well. ;)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/CRASHES.jpg)
Oh man, I forgot the sickening angle of Melandri's neck in that pic...
Quote from: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 04:47:24 PM
OK that's funny as shit!! [laugh] Jesus can get away with that because it's kinda true!! [laugh] Everyone knows old make the beast with two backsers don't like change or young whippersnappers. Duh! You will all have your day!!!! There will come a day when you all yell at kids to get off your lawn!!! God dammit!!! [cheeky]
At least I can still laugh at myself... not sure how long that lasts before I can't find my way home or remember my name. [popcorn]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
I already complain about the youth in this country (make the beast with two backsing hipsters), and have had to yell at people for being on my lawn. Maybe I'm old at heart?
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 07:02:54 AM
^^ Here are the retirements from the Indy race. It wasn't as bad as you think.
Retirements:
Mashel Al Naimi BQR 12 laps
Jules Cluzel Suter 11 laps
Ratthapark Wilairot Bimota 8 laps
Raffaele De Rosa Tech 3 6 laps
Stefan Bradl Suter 5 laps
Ricard Cardus Bimota 2 laps
Yusuke Teshima Motobi 2 laps
Hector Faubel Suter 1 lap
Alex Debon FTR 1 lap
Vladimir Ivanov Moriwaki 1 lap
Shoya Tomizawa Suter 0 laps
Michael Ranseder Suter 0 laps
so...over 25% of the field?
Just got around to watching the Aragon Moto2 GP race. As usual, it had the first turn crash nonsense with 5-6 bikes going out. I'm sure a few made it back on track but at the back of the pack. A whole lot better than Indy or other races crash-wise. There is not much good coming from 40 bikes on a grid with the same motor. It's been a season long pregnant dog of mine and I don't see it ending any time soon. [bang] Hopefully next year it will be better. Pray for griding standards. Hopefully some kind of qualifying cut off will play a role to narrow the field.
fwiw, i believe the qualifying cutoff for moto2 is 107%...
Thanks. I knew there had to be some sort of cut off/standard, just have never seen or heard of it. I'm sure FIM/DORNA would have something in place. Otherwise yahoos like me might try to make the grid. [laugh] I'm just waiting for that class to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had low expectations in it's first year. Although, there is some good racing at or near the front. I just tire of all the crashes and pile ups. Too much like NASCAR. :P
Quote from: rc51 on September 21, 2010, 04:46:10 AM
Thanks. I knew there had to be some sort of cut off/standard, just have never seen or heard of it. I'm sure FIM/DORNA would have something in place. Otherwise yahoos like me might try to make the grid. [laugh] I'm just waiting for that class to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had low expectations in it's first year. Although, there is some good racing at or near the front. I just tire of all the crashes and pile ups. Too much like NASCAR. :P
+1 Every start looks like a Nascar event. Not to mention that it's dangerous. Not sure what they can do considering they all have the same motor unless they space them out a bit.
Quote from: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 05:40:48 AM
+1 Every start looks like a Nascar event. Not to mention that it's dangerous. Not sure what they can do considering they all have the same motor unless they space them out a bit.
Maybe they should do rolling starts with a pace car...
Shut your mouth blasphemer!!! I would love the old running to your car/bike starts.
Maybe the old school GP style run/bump start. ;D
Quote from: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 06:02:36 AM
Shut your mouth blasphemer!!!
ROTFL....When Jesus(TM) (or his picture) comes on the board and calls me a blasphemer, that makes me proud ;D
Quote from: rc51 on September 21, 2010, 06:09:41 AM
Maybe the old school GP style run/bump start. ;D
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)
Quote from: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)
I heard someone say racing was dangerous.
Quote from: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)
That article just states that it's dangerous because people were not wearing their harnesses. No harness in motorcycle racing. My concern would be someone getting run over if they tripped. I think it would still work better in motorcycle racing than in cars. And it can't be any worse than the guys all bunching all into a turn.
Quote from: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)
duccarlos was referring to LeMans starts where the drivers run across the track, get in and start their cars. I was referring to the old bike GP run and bump start the bike starts, ala KR Sr. days. Besides it was just a joke. ;D
Quote from: rc51 on September 21, 2010, 07:58:11 AM
duccarlos was referring to LeMans starts where the drivers run across the track, get in and start their cars. I was referring to the old bike GP run and bump start the bike starts, ala KR Sr. days. Besides it was just a joke. ;D
I think it was good system...
but I doubt that the riders would be able to bump start a 600 or 800cc 4 stroke. machine
Agreed, they would still need someone to push them.
Quote from: humorless dp on September 21, 2010, 10:46:08 AM
I think it was good system...
but I doubt that the riders would be able to bump start a 600 or 800cc 4 stroke. machine
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...the only thing I say that would really get in the way would be the protective equipment in keeping them from being able to run, hop and THEN ride away...
I love watching the videos of the old GP races and seeing the starts. Cool stuff. You had to have that down to a fine art or else. Who gives a shit if you're on the pole with a second + up on everyone else if you can't get the bike to start quick and hop on. The whole fourth row would pass you while you were still pushing! Spencer's RS500 triples were supposedly the best/quickest starting 500cc GP out there. I think I remember reading about KR Sr. pregnant doging about it. [laugh]
Quote from: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...the only thing I say that would really get in the way would be the protective equipment in keeping them from being able to run, hop and THEN ride away...
Most of the time, if the GP bikes stop running, they don't start without a diesel motor turning the wheel.
Those bikes have gnarly compression ratios.
2 strokes live to be bump started, 4 strokes not so much.
Quote from: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...the only thing I say that would really get in the way would be the protective equipment in keeping them from being able to run, hop and THEN ride away...
maybe a bike up to temp with 2 or 3 guys pushing...
I'd pay money to see Pedrosa try it all alone. ;)
Quote from: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...
when that happens that bike was still running.
The new and improved Pedrobot!! ;D
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test)
Quote from: oldfastwin on November 23, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
The new and improved Pedrobot!! ;D
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test)
I haven't really seen what he's like off-track, but based on his on-track riding, I like Marquez a whole lot more than I like Hobbity Mcmake the beast with two backswad.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] Yeah he put in a really awesome year for such a youngster and hell, he's bound to have a better personality than Pedrobot!! How can he not?? Dani needs to start looking over his shoulder! [thumbsup] [moto] [popcorn]