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Moto Board => Racing & Trackdays => Topic started by: fastwin on August 08, 2010, 05:48:01 PM

Title: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on August 08, 2010, 05:48:01 PM
This may go nowhere but is anyone else somewhat less excited about Moto2 than 250GP? I damn sure am. I'm in the middle of watching the German Moto2 race and I feel like I'm watching a bad AMA Supersport race. It's a limp dick Formula Xtreme race! Do you actually see this as a "grooming" class for future MotoGP 1000cc racers? I damn sure don't. Do you see any future Lorenzos, Pedrosas, Simoncellis, etc out there? I don't. Tony Elias is the only star I see and he went down to run in that class. [bang] Sorry... just really disappointed in this class. Can't wait 'til they butcher the 125 class. :P

Thank God for WSBK!! [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Moto2 crap
Post by: kopfjäger on August 08, 2010, 06:07:29 PM
I really like Moto2. There have been some great races this season.

Moto2 Rewind: Catalunya; HD sample! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDjMlamhynk#normal)
Title: Re: Moto2 crap
Post by: fastwin on August 08, 2010, 06:23:19 PM
Ah, this one seems to be a AMA Supersport crash-fest. Besides Elias who really belongs here... in the "you are being groomed to go to 1000cc MotoGP"? I'm blind to see who's next in line with this group. [bang] This class is just weak. Like it if you want to. I just don't... I'll delete this crap and watch AMA MX... thank you very much. DORNA, wake up!!!! You're loosing it. Better hang onto Rossi otherwise you are done!! ;D My worthless two cents... [popcorn]
Title: Re: Moto2 crap
Post by: Triple J on August 08, 2010, 07:33:14 PM
I really like Moto2 as well.  [thumbsup]

I don't see how the 250 class was any better for grooming future MotoGP riders...especially with the switch back to 1000cc.
Title: Re: Moto2 crap
Post by: Jester on August 08, 2010, 09:40:35 PM
There has been some good racing in Moto2 this year and a very heavy grid which is a good thing.  I don't see any issues with it... and hopefully they will find a way to bring the moto2 machines to Laguna.  Talented riders work around the machinery anyway, its not holding anyone back.

I think our biggest worry was lack of drama and some good racing that we came to expect from 250's.  We still seem to have both.
Title: Re: Moto2 crap
Post by: derby on August 09, 2010, 05:24:40 AM
Quote from: Jester on August 08, 2010, 09:40:35 PM
...and hopefully they will find a way to bring the moto2 machines to Laguna. 

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100804b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100804b.htm)
Title: Re: Moto2 crap
Post by: fastwin on August 09, 2010, 05:42:57 AM
OK, maybe the word crap in the title is a little strong, I'll re-title it. I'll blame that on my third top shelf margarita I had with dinner! [laugh] Doesn't quite qualify for the official I'm drunk thread but I guess I was badly waxing nostalgic for the old 250GP class. I'm just overloaded on Honda 600cc inline four racing. And I do think the 250GP class "groomed" riders well to move up to MotoGP... at least in it's 800cc format. Probably better than WSBK. It will be interesting to see who takes to the new 1000cc format. I guess this thread can turn into the Moto2 thread. I don't think there is one, nor is there one for World Supersport. Oh well, end of 600cc rant. ;D
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: Spidey on August 09, 2010, 06:46:52 AM
If you're concerned about the quality of the Moto2 grid, in part that's because a huge group of the promising/interesting 250 riders moved up to GP last year-- Aoyama, Simoncelli, Bautista, Barbera.  There hadn't been significant 250 -->GP movement in the prior couple of years.  A new crop of Moto2 stars will arise shortly.

I think Moto2 has been awesome.  There are routinely 5 guys dicing it out all race until and through the last lap. 
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on August 09, 2010, 09:48:08 AM
Yeah, maybe I'm just being pissy but you are probably right, it just needs time to develop. As sad as it was for 250GP to go the way of the dinosaur I was hoping this could be a really cool class. Maybe my expectations were a little high for the first season. And you are also right that the best of the best left the 250 class over the last couple of years for MotoGP. You know it's funny, I enjoy the World Supersport races much more than Moto2. I think the talent runs a little deeper in WSS. Hopefully Moto2 will get there. Obviously it does already for some. [moto] Hey, you enjoy what you enjoy. Good enough. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
OK, I still go with my first impression of this class. I am just now finally watching the Indy Moto2 dumbmake the beast with two backs crashfest and I'm not 5-6 laps into it. Where did they get these riders? There is no way in hell some of the riders could possibly make it through the turns they are riding and they just t-bone the hell out of other riders left and right. The front group is OK but 75% of the other riders shouldn't even be there. :P They really need to not let every rider with two legs and a heart beat compete in this class. It's pretty embarrassing. Sad...
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: kopfjäger on September 03, 2010, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PMThe front group is OK but 75% of the other riders shouldn't even be there.

If they did that, then it would be a yawn fest like MotoGP.  ;)
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: avizpls on September 03, 2010, 06:57:00 PM
Im getting frustrated with the way they just send them off to crash. Its predicatble what will happen in turn one damn near every race. The formula for massive crashes is clearly there and it shouldnt be.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: brix821 on September 04, 2010, 01:18:41 AM
Ianonne is awesome
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 06:28:22 AM
Quote from: avizpls on September 03, 2010, 06:57:00 PM
Im getting frustrated with the way they just send them off to crash. Its predicatble what will happen in turn one damn near every race. The formula for massive crashes is clearly there and it shouldnt be.

Maybe they should have a bike limit on the grid. I don't know, maybe 20 max. Or have some sort of qualy time cut off. You have to qualify within X% of the pole time. It's not like the leaders are lapping the back markers on the 10th lap but damn, I couldn't believe some of the f'ed up lines in crowded turns some guys were taking! They weren't riding to pass riders, they were riding to crash into them! There is no way some of those guys could have made it through the turns on an empty track much less one with riders elbow to asshole three deep in a turn! I have never seen a more crash filled GP race. Not even ones run in the wet. The words frustration and embarassment come to mind. Admitedly decent racing up front but the rest was just damn hard to watch. How can DORNA put up with a race like that?
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 07:02:54 AM
^^ Here are the retirements from the Indy race. It wasn't as bad as you think.


Retirements:

     Mashel Al Naimi      BQR          12 laps
     Jules Cluzel         Suter        11 laps
     Ratthapark Wilairot  Bimota       8 laps
     Raffaele De Rosa     Tech 3       6 laps
     Stefan Bradl         Suter        5 laps
     Ricard Cardus        Bimota       2 laps
     Yusuke Teshima       Motobi       2 laps
     Hector Faubel        Suter        1 lap
     Alex Debon           FTR          1 lap
     Vladimir Ivanov      Moriwaki     1 lap
     Shoya Tomizawa       Suter        0 laps
     Michael Ranseder     Suter        0 laps
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm)

Good pic and comment. [laugh]
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 12:30:22 PM
Quote from: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/indy/fan3/4.htm)

Good pic and comment. [laugh]

It's called "Racing" the driver with the most talent wins.  :D  Unlike the winner being 3.5sec ahead.  ;)
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: El Matador on September 04, 2010, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
OK, I still go with my first impression of this class. I am just now finally watching the Indy Moto2 dumbmake the beast with two backs crashfest and I'm not 5-6 laps into it. Where did they get these riders? There is no way in hell some of the riders could possibly make it through the turns they are riding and they just t-bone the hell out of other riders left and right. The front group is OK but 75% of the other riders shouldn't even be there. :P They really need to not let every rider with two legs and a heart beat compete in this class. It's pretty embarrassing. Sad...

Translation:

Quote from: fastwin on September 03, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
*Grumble, grumble, grumble* These young whippersnappers and their CHANGE! *shakes walking cane* They think they can come in and change the way things have been for the past 40 years!?!?!? They got another thing coming! *Sits back down in rocking chair and reminisces about the good old days*
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 12:43:10 PM
The "Allstars" do it as well.  ;)



(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/CRASHES.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 04:47:24 PM
OK that's funny as shit!! [laugh] Jesus can get away with that because it's kinda true!! [laugh] Everyone knows old make the beast with two backsers don't like change or young whippersnappers. Duh! You will all have your day!!!! There will come a day when you all yell at kids to get off your lawn!!! God dammit!!! [cheeky]

At least I can still laugh at myself... not sure how long that lasts before I can't find my way home or remember my name. [popcorn]
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: El Matador on September 04, 2010, 06:04:39 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 12:43:10 PM
The "Allstars" do it as well.  ;)



(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/CRASHES.jpg)

Oh man, I forgot the sickening angle of Melandri's neck in that pic...

Quote from: fastwin on September 04, 2010, 04:47:24 PM
OK that's funny as shit!! [laugh] Jesus can get away with that because it's kinda true!! [laugh] Everyone knows old make the beast with two backsers don't like change or young whippersnappers. Duh! You will all have your day!!!! There will come a day when you all yell at kids to get off your lawn!!! God dammit!!! [cheeky]

At least I can still laugh at myself... not sure how long that lasts before I can't find my way home or remember my name. [popcorn]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

I already complain about the youth in this country (make the beast with two backsing hipsters), and have had to yell at people for being on my lawn. Maybe I'm old at heart?

Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: avizpls on September 07, 2010, 05:32:13 AM
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 04, 2010, 07:02:54 AM
^^ Here are the retirements from the Indy race. It wasn't as bad as you think.


Retirements:

     Mashel Al Naimi      BQR          12 laps
     Jules Cluzel         Suter        11 laps
     Ratthapark Wilairot  Bimota       8 laps
     Raffaele De Rosa     Tech 3       6 laps
     Stefan Bradl         Suter        5 laps
     Ricard Cardus        Bimota       2 laps
     Yusuke Teshima       Motobi       2 laps
     Hector Faubel        Suter        1 lap
     Alex Debon           FTR          1 lap
     Vladimir Ivanov      Moriwaki     1 lap
     Shoya Tomizawa       Suter        0 laps
     Michael Ranseder     Suter        0 laps


so...over 25% of the field?
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 20, 2010, 07:09:19 PM
Just got around to watching the Aragon Moto2 GP race. As usual, it had the first turn crash nonsense with 5-6 bikes going out. I'm sure a few made it back on track but at the back of the pack. A whole lot better than Indy or other races crash-wise. There is not much good coming from 40 bikes on a grid with the same motor. It's been a season long pregnant dog of mine and I don't see it ending any time soon. [bang] Hopefully next year it will be better. Pray for griding standards. Hopefully some kind of qualifying cut off will play a role to narrow the field.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: derby on September 20, 2010, 08:58:08 PM
fwiw, i believe the qualifying cutoff for moto2 is 107%...
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 21, 2010, 04:46:10 AM
Thanks. I knew there had to be some sort of cut off/standard, just have never seen or heard of it. I'm sure FIM/DORNA would have something in place. Otherwise yahoos like me might try to make the grid. [laugh] I'm just waiting for that class to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had low expectations in it's first year. Although, there is some good racing at or near the front. I just tire of all the crashes and pile ups. Too much like NASCAR. :P
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 05:40:48 AM
Quote from: rc51 on September 21, 2010, 04:46:10 AM
Thanks. I knew there had to be some sort of cut off/standard, just have never seen or heard of it. I'm sure FIM/DORNA would have something in place. Otherwise yahoos like me might try to make the grid. [laugh] I'm just waiting for that class to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had low expectations in it's first year. Although, there is some good racing at or near the front. I just tire of all the crashes and pile ups. Too much like NASCAR. :P

+1 Every start looks like a Nascar event. Not to mention that it's dangerous. Not sure what they can do considering they all have the same motor unless they space them out a bit.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: desmoquattro on September 21, 2010, 06:01:27 AM
Quote from: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 05:40:48 AM
+1 Every start looks like a Nascar event. Not to mention that it's dangerous. Not sure what they can do considering they all have the same motor unless they space them out a bit.

Maybe they should do rolling starts with a pace car...
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 06:02:36 AM
Shut your mouth blasphemer!!! I would love the old running to your car/bike starts.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 21, 2010, 06:09:41 AM
Maybe the old school GP style run/bump start. ;D
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: desmoquattro on September 21, 2010, 06:18:20 AM
Quote from: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 06:02:36 AM
Shut your mouth blasphemer!!!


ROTFL....When Jesus(TM) (or his picture) comes on the board and calls me a blasphemer, that makes me proud ;D
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
Quote from: rc51 on September 21, 2010, 06:09:41 AM
Maybe the old school GP style run/bump start. ;D

those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: ducpainter on September 21, 2010, 07:28:18 AM
Quote from: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)
I heard someone say racing was dangerous.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: zooom on September 21, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
Quote from: humorless dp on September 21, 2010, 07:28:18 AM
I heard someone say racing was dangerous.

IT IS?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 07:54:53 AM
Quote from: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)

That article just states that it's dangerous because people were not wearing their harnesses. No harness in motorcycle racing. My concern would be someone getting run over if they tripped. I think it would still work better in motorcycle racing than in cars. And it can't be any worse than the guys all bunching all into a turn.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 21, 2010, 07:58:11 AM
Quote from: derby on September 21, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
those are called "le mans starts" and just about everybody quit doing them because they're dangerous.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/ (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show--events/Other-shows/Le-Mans-24-hour-race-2010-CAR-Magazines-guide/The-famous-Le-Mans-style-start/)

duccarlos was referring to LeMans starts where the drivers run across the track, get in and start their cars. I was referring to the old bike GP run and bump start the bike starts, ala KR Sr. days. Besides it was just a joke. ;D
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: ducpainter on September 21, 2010, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: rc51 on September 21, 2010, 07:58:11 AM
duccarlos was referring to LeMans starts where the drivers run across the track, get in and start their cars. I was referring to the old bike GP run and bump start the bike starts, ala KR Sr. days. Besides it was just a joke. ;D
I think it was good system...

but I doubt that the riders would be able to bump start a 600 or 800cc 4 stroke. machine
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: duccarlos on September 21, 2010, 10:53:43 AM
Agreed, they would still need someone to push them.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: humorless dp on September 21, 2010, 10:46:08 AM
I think it was good system...

but I doubt that the riders would be able to bump start a 600 or 800cc 4 stroke. machine

given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...the only thing I say that would really get in the way would be the protective equipment in keeping them from being able to run, hop and THEN ride away...
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on September 21, 2010, 11:41:43 AM
I love watching the videos of the old GP races and seeing the starts. Cool stuff. You had to have that down to a fine art or else. Who gives a shit if you're on the pole with a second + up on everyone else if you can't get the bike to start quick and hop on. The whole fourth row would pass you while you were still pushing! Spencer's RS500 triples were supposedly the best/quickest starting 500cc GP out there. I think I remember reading about KR Sr. pregnant doging about it. [laugh]
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: mattc7 on September 21, 2010, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...the only thing I say that would really get in the way would be the protective equipment in keeping them from being able to run, hop and THEN ride away...

Most of the time, if the GP bikes stop running, they don't start without a diesel motor turning the wheel.

Those bikes have gnarly compression ratios. 

2 strokes live to be bump started, 4 strokes not so much.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: ducpainter on September 21, 2010, 01:06:24 PM
Quote from: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...the only thing I say that would really get in the way would be the protective equipment in keeping them from being able to run, hop and THEN ride away...
maybe a bike up to temp with 2 or 3 guys pushing...

I'd pay money to see Pedrosa try it all alone. ;)
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: gm2 on September 23, 2010, 08:41:59 AM
Quote from: zooom on September 21, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
given the way they do it sometimes after picking the bike up post crash...I have to question that...

when that happens that bike was still running.

Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on November 23, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
The new and improved Pedrobot!! ;D

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test)

Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: Spidey on November 23, 2010, 10:21:08 AM
Quote from: oldfastwin on November 23, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
The new and improved Pedrobot!! ;D

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/11/23/marquez-set-for-moto2-test)

I haven't really seen what he's like off-track, but based on his on-track riding, I like Marquez a whole lot more than I like Hobbity Mcmake the beast with two backswad.
Title: Re: Moto2 stuff
Post by: fastwin on November 23, 2010, 05:18:37 PM
 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] Yeah he put in a really awesome year for such a youngster and hell, he's bound to have a better personality than Pedrobot!! How can he not?? Dani needs to start looking over his shoulder! [thumbsup] [moto] [popcorn]