I've recently heard that standard 91 octane fuel will be phased out to be replaced fully by an ethanol blend within 6 months or thereabouts, so the lowest octane non ethanol blend available will be 95.
Given that our bikes, well at least mine at least, tends to run rather shite with anything other than 91, and with just about every mechanic I've ever spoken to saying to avoid ethanol - what are the options???
Been thinking zackly the same thing as my old 750, just like all of the old carbed Monsters that I've heard of just wont run on the higher octane fuel. [roll]
Maybe I should stock up on spark plugs. [roll]
I'd like to hear from the boffins here as to just what we might be able to do to keep these oldies on the road where they should be! ???
Just what is it that makes these motors so cranky on the higher octanes?? Ignition system need upgrade?? Raise in compression maybe?? Ignition timing?? Cams?? [roll] :-\
Quote from: dragonworld on August 22, 2010, 03:58:02 AM
I'd like to hear from the boffins here as to just what we might be able to do to keep these oldies on the road where they should be! ???
Its not just the older carb bikes. I think most of the smaller capacities (at least) run better on the 91.
Quote from: dragonworld on August 22, 2010, 03:58:02 AM
Just what is it that makes these motors so cranky on the higher octanes?? Ignition system need upgrade?? Raise in compression maybe?? Ignition timing?? Cams?? [roll] :-\
What abour air intake? Is that likely to make any difference?
I'm totally guessing here, as I haven't tried any of these things.
My plan of attack should I experience problems with the 95 octane fuel is:
- Replace the stock ignition wires with lower resistance ones, to get a better spark and ensure consistent firing
- Increase the plug gap a little over standard, to get better fuel ignition
- Try expensive iridium spark plugs (DCPR8EIX), with a slightly bigger than standard gap
- Try running hotter plugs (DCPR7EIX)
- Replace the coils, with ones that provide a better spark, then open the plug gap out a little more
Mine runs great on 95 ???
put some in last night and she is purring
Quote from: dezmonster on August 22, 2010, 12:53:08 PM
Mine runs great on 95 ???
put some in last night and she is purring
So does mine and on 98
My 1000DS will run on anything but best on 95 with no discernable advantage from the top drop. [drink]
But the 750 even with the Iridiums doesnt cope with the higher octane. :o
A change to a more potent ignition system would be on the right track but I think it might go a bit further than that!? ???
As far as I know the 800 runs fine on 91 or 95.
We always used to put 95 in the 620 as well ... it seemed to run fine, but the pros didn't like the effect on the plugs (I can't remember exactly but think dark and oily was the prognosis). So we have been running 91 where possible. Still seems to run fine.
As a mechanical numpty, I have no idea ... so how far out is my query about the intake? I thought the symptoms we had were caused by a more dense fuel (with the higher octane) and was hoping more air might help to provide a better mixture. I was sure we were told that the 95 was providing too rich of a mixture hence the plug concern.
Educate me peoples ;D
I run either 95 or 98 and she is sweet as.
Got the full open air box and it didnt change the outcome as far as low octane swill as compared to the higher octane. [roll]
Standard air box, standard air box with K&N filter and open air box with K&N equals the same result! [moto]
750 that is! [thumbsup]
You can advance the ignition timing on the higher octain fuels to get you bikr to run better.
Maybe other points are that:
1. This will force people to pay more for the higher octane fuels cos their vehicle manufacturer does not endorse the use of the "E" fuel. [roll]
2. And is a way to attempt to get more of the older vehicles off trhe road?? [evil]
(Yes, I am a conspiracy theorist, and there is ALWAYS an ulterior motive to anything Guvmints, [leo] , environmentalists do! For our own good of course! [roll] )
Got told at Gowanlochs , the higher the octane the hotter they run . So mid summer" probly not a good idea for 98 :-\
I love conspiracy theories Dragon.
What I think about the E10:
. incentives were offered under environmental grounds as a renewable fuel source
. E10 offered for sale at a slight discount
. people prefer the cheaper E10 even though their increased fuel consumption is actually costing them more
. market (for non-E10) dwindles due to huge uptake in E10 and no incentive from the fuel companies because they make more money by selling more fuel
. fuel suppliers realise the impost of stocking so many different fuel types
. fuel suppliers lobby the authorities to enforce E10 citing environmental consideration and cost savings to the consumer
. government legislates on E10
. predominantly ignorant public don't give a shit because E10 is cheaper and cars are disposable and not worth maintaining.
Everybody is happy ... unless you have a small capacity Ducati, but even worse if you have a small capacity Ducati with a plastic tank.
What's to bet now that Bob Katter has way too much power that they'll be putting ethanol into all fuel.
Quote from: Betty on August 22, 2010, 08:53:08 PM
I love conspiracy theories Dragon.
What I think about the E10:
. incentives were offered under environmental grounds as a renewable fuel source
. E10 offered for sale at a slight discount
. people prefer the cheaper E10 even though their increased fuel consumption is actually costing them more
. market (for non-E10) dwindles due to huge uptake in E10 and no incentive from the fuel companies because they make more money by selling more fuel
. fuel suppliers realise the impost of stocking so many different fuel types
. fuel suppliers lobby the authorities to enforce E10 citing environmental consideration and cost savings to the consumer
. government legislates on E10
. predominantly ignorant public don't give a shit because E10 is cheaper and cars are disposable and not worth maintaining.
Everybody is happy ... unless you have a small capacity Ducati, but even worse if you have a small capacity Ducati with a plastic tank.
Betty I know you can waffle on with the best of them, I should know I've waffled too.
But all I can say on this issue is................
SPOT ON MATE [thumbsup]
Mmick
Quote from: Betty on August 22, 2010, 08:53:08 PM
I love conspiracy theories Dragon.
What I think about the E10:
. incentives were offered under environmental grounds as a renewable fuel source
. E10 offered for sale at a slight discount
. people prefer the cheaper E10 even though their increased fuel consumption is actually costing them more
. market (for non-E10) dwindles due to huge uptake in E10 and no incentive from the fuel companies because they make more money by selling more fuel
. fuel suppliers realise the impost of stocking so many different fuel types
. fuel suppliers lobby the authorities to enforce E10 citing environmental consideration and cost savings to the consumer
. government legislates on E10
. predominantly ignorant public don't give a shit because E10 is cheaper and cars are disposable and not worth maintaining.
Everybody is happy ... unless you have a small capacity Ducati, but even worse if you have a small capacity Ducati with a plastic tank.
Im not happy, i own a small patisserie/cafe and the cost of sugar has almost doubled since the E10 alternative had become available
Come on Cakeman, run with the best of them and "Book it to the job ! "
Ofcourse you have to pass on a little, however in a highly competitive environment you absorb as much as you can
Quote from: cakeman on August 23, 2010, 02:19:47 AM
Ofcourse you have to pass on a little, however in a highly competitive environment you absorb as much as you can
You have to be careful about absorbing too much sugar.
Diabetes kids.
Diabetes.
I run 95 and 98 BP, Caltex and Mobil. I have high comp pistons but have retarded the ignition 3 degrees.
Had problems in the past with Shell 98 as many have described but tried it recently and although the bike appeared to run richer no probs this time. With the dense Shell 98 it ran great in zero temps! Wonder if it would foul in summer.
A difference in the bike since I last used Shell 98 with probs was the addition of Dyna coils, Iridium plugs and FCRs. I think the coils and Iridium plugs may have made the difference in dealing with the 98 fuel, but I can't be 100% sure.
For somewhat selfish reasons I thought I'd resurrect this thread (didn't want to start yet another one).
What is everyone using nowadays?
Our experience:
. told to use 95 RON but under no circumstances Shell (dealer)
. later told 91 RON would be better especially for the 620 (independent Ducati mechanics)
. 91 RON become unavailable unless you roll the dice with the insidious ethanol
. 95 RON becoming increasingly difficult to find (especially in our neck of the woods)
So as it stands we use 95 if possible otherwise 98. Does that fit the norm? Is there still reason to avoid Shell (I suspect things may have changed in almost 10 years)?
Any recommendations, feedback or experience you wish to impart?
After talking to Jukie Re the availability of 91 RON/ 95 RON, I asked the local servo people about any deletion of certain octanes? ???
And the general reply from 2 or 3 outlets was that they havent heard anything about it, and here in Victoria status quo appears to NOT be changin?? [thumbsup]
Wassup in NSW?? :P
Quote from: Betty on August 10, 2011, 07:14:31 PM
For somewhat selfish reasons I thought I'd resurrect this thread (didn't want to start yet another one).
What is everyone using nowadays?
Our experience:
. told to use 95 RON but under no circumstances Shell (dealer)
. later told 91 RON would be better especially for the 620 (independent Ducati mechanics)
. 91 RON become unavailable unless you roll the dice with the insidious ethanol
. 95 RON becoming increasingly difficult to find (especially in our neck of the woods)
So as it stands we use 95 if possible otherwise 98. Does that fit the norm? Is there still reason to avoid Shell (I suspect things may have changed in almost 10 years)?
Any recommendations, feedback or experience you wish to impart?
My Duc dealer recommended Shell V-Power 98RON specifically, not the Shell Premium 98RON though due to additives. He told me that my M1100 had been designed to use Shell V-Power and Ducati spent a lot of time with Shell to get it right, truth or BS I know not.
However I find Caltex 98RON to be the best and have stuck with that and have no problems.
Quote from: Sundog on August 10, 2011, 11:26:25 PM
My Duc dealer recommended Shell V-Power 98RON specifically, not the Shell Premium 98RON though due to additives. He told me that my M1100 had been designed to use Shell V-Power and Ducati spent a lot of time with Shell to get it right, truth or BS I know not.
I figured there may have been a change with the name change to V-Power ... part of the reason I asked. I had always found it odd that the bike comes with a Shell sticker on the engine ... all the lubricants mentioned in the Owner's Manual are Shell ... the Ducati teams are sponsored by Shell ... but we were told not to use Shell fuel (even so far as saying warranty claims would not be honoured if we did).
Perhaps it has something to with the top shelf fuels we must get down here [roll] [laugh]
My prefered and recomended fuel is 91 ron :D
My 3 local servos haven't sold 91 for a least 2/3 years or more. ???
only E10 or 95/98 available :'(
So Iam forced to use 95 or 98 :'(
Was still able to get 91 at Berowra Mobil , that might change now it's changing to seven 11.
And the Caltex at Singleton and the Caltex at rouse Hill have 91. ;D
I am not sure why my local servos a Seven 11/woollies Caltex and BP don't sell 91 any more maybe not enough tanks to cater for the different varieties? :-\
Or just forcing people to convert to E10
My preferred order of fuel purchase.
Caltex 95
Mobil 95 (now 7-11)
BP 95
When 95 isn't available, then 98/premium is what I buy.
In the 620 days it was 91 all the way, but I guess that is now becoming hard to find.
I do try to avoid Shell, mostly because it carries on a little more when Shell is used.
Also a friend put a tank full of Shell V-power many years ago when it first hit the market, it was full of water and bent valves which did all sorts of damage. The only reason the servo/Shell said they would fix his car (an Alfa 156) was that his final email he sent was fromo his work address being the Editor of the Sunday Telegraph Carsguide. Guess they saw reason in the end.
Since then Shell has been my last choice.
Quote from: suzyj on August 22, 2010, 12:28:20 PM
I'm totally guessing here, as I haven't tried any of these things.
My plan of attack should I experience problems with the 95 octane fuel is:
- Replace the stock ignition wires with lower resistance ones, to get a better spark and ensure consistent firing
- Increase the plug gap a little over standard, to get better fuel ignition
- Try expensive iridium spark plugs (DCPR8EIX), with a slightly bigger than standard gap
- Try running hotter plugs (DCPR7EIX)
- Replace the coils, with ones that provide a better spark, then open the plug gap out a little more
Open that gap until the motor protests then back the gap off, Iridium plugs also benifit from a wider gapthan a standard plug so open it up
Mmick
The older 750 will NOT run on anything above 91RON!! It will shit plugs (Including Iridium) and run like a bucket of bolts! [roll]
The DS on any of the three but 95 it runs crisper with no difference in engine feel between the 95 and 98! ???
I've been running Caltex and Mobil without any problems. [thumbsup] [Dolph]