http://tinyurl.com/4kwdfw
Quote from: MendoDave on June 09, 2008, 11:58:45 AM
http://tinyurl.com/4kwdfw
Bill to taxpayers: $22,500 plus tax and installation. Yay.
"Oakland officials acknowledge that the noisy pipes, when tested, averaged 93 decibels - well above the federal legal noise limit, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council."
At least now when bikers in Oakland get pulled over for loud exhaust, they can bring this up as an argument.
Quote from: deweey on June 09, 2008, 12:12:04 PM
Bill to taxpayers: $22,500 plus tax and installation. Yay.
Quote from: The Article
Hence, all 30 of the department's Harleys were sent down to the central maintenance yard for a muffler makeover, at a cost of about $15,000, according to City Hall insiders. Another 15 newly purchased motorcycles were ordered with the louder pipes, though at no extra charge.
"Over in Oakland they like it loud - so loud that all 45 of the Police Department's Harley-Davidson motorcycles have been equipped with shiny new tailpipes, at a cost of $500 apiece, to rev up their roar."
I see it now. I only got to the first sentence in the article. I shoulda read the whole thing.
;D
So next time we get pulled over for loud pipes we can pull this card on them [thumbsup]
;D Loud Pipes Rule
Switch up time indeed.
-Panthro
funny i was going to post a poll on this topic. there is no doubt in my mind that a loud exhaust helps you. just as a blinker tells someone you are going to turn, your exhaust tells them that you are there. its just that simple
the ron [evil]
Quote from: deweey on June 09, 2008, 12:12:04 PM
Bill to taxpayers: $22,500 plus tax and installation. Yay.
"At least now when bikers in Oakland get pulled over for loud exhaust, they can bring this up as an argument.
that probably wont work, its the same as having tinted windows or having a glock 9 on your hip. it will probably just piss them off. that would be my guess and indeed that is how i get through most of my life, guessing ;D
the ron [evil]
i can't find it, but I'm sure I read somewhere that loud pipes aren't safer. The direction, amplitude, and frequency of the exhaust note isn't directional enough or something like that. Frenzied searching produced no result.
It's a psychological thing, nothing else.
andy
Thats why cops change their sirens when approaching intersections -- differnt noises grab drivers attention. If it is the same noise approaching you don't get the same reaction.
The moto-cops here in my town have been running straight pipes on their Harley's for a while. They are almost as loud if not louder than my udder. (But we don't have a noise regulation here... I don't know about cali...)
+1 on the exhaust not actually being much safer. Noise is directed toward the rear of the bike - where you've already been, not forward - where you're going so oncoming traffic and people turning out of streets/ driveways don't hear you a whole lot sooner. Plus, with the level of sound deadening in many vehicles nowadays I have a hard time just hearing sirens let alone a motorcycle.
If the bike is cruising at speeds under 35-ish I'd say a driver might be able to hear them before they carelessly turn in front of you but anything faster than that and you're still gonna get hit. The difference is that they'll turn to look at you as they're turning so you can see the look of surprise on their face. [roll] But at the speeds I think the noise will help I can generally stop in time if someone pulls out in front of me.
That's not to say that I haven't been saved from getting hit a couple times by blipping the throttle. But all of these were in parking structures/lots where someone almost backed into me. In which case a horn could have done the job just as well. [roll]
I saw a bumper sticker that said, "If loud pipes save lives, think what learning to ride would do." [thumbsup]
Quote from: Ducatiloo on June 10, 2008, 08:59:54 AM
I saw a bumper sticker that said, "If loud pipes save lives, think what learning to ride would do." [thumbsup]
i want one!
When I get home I'll see if I have the site bookmarked.
Quote from: Ducatiloo on June 10, 2008, 10:09:27 AM
When I get home I'll see if I have the site bookmarked.
[beer]
Quote from: Privateer on June 10, 2008, 06:40:56 AM
i can't find it, but I'm sure I read somewhere that loud pipes aren't safer. The direction, amplitude, and frequency of the exhaust note isn't directional enough or something like that. Frenzied searching produced no result.
It's a psychological thing, nothing else.
andy
I commute on my bikes. I ride the same roads at the same time every day. I have seen a dramatic difference in the number of close calls from drivers who were not aware of my presence when running stock vs aftermarket exhaust. I actually kept a log one month of the number of close calls while lane splitting. It was something like 8 times more frequent with the stock pipes.
Until I start travelling faster than the speed of sound, I'll keep my loud pipes.
My son can even tell when I am coming home because he can hear my bike pull off the highway a mile away from the house.
Quote from: silentbob on June 10, 2008, 10:30:07 AM
I commute on my bikes. I ride the same roads at the same time every day. I have seen a dramatic difference in the number of close calls from drivers who were not aware of my presence when running stock vs aftermarket exhaust.
My son can even tell when I am coming home because he can hear my bike pull off the highway a mile away from the house.
+1 on this - while I have a reverse commute at odd hours for the most part, when i do travel in traffic, I have definitely noticed an increased awareness when coming up behind/between people with Termis baffles removed > baffles in > stock.
My daughter is usually napping when I get home, so I coast in with engine off for the last 3/4 block, if I know she's awake, then i come in normal, & she has either opened the bathroom window & has a BIG smile on her face "Poppa, take motorpsychle work?!" (she's 2 & change) or is waiting for me at the top of the stairs, again, with a big shit eating grin. (I live in SF, up 70 steps to our pad from street)
I'll be the voice of disagreement with the above 2. ;D
I've commuted year round for the past 2 years in Seattle. Good and horrible weather. About 1/2 was done on a Multi with stock exhaust or very quiet Termis...the other half done on a Multi with Remus full GP race system (current..loud and sounds great [evil]).
I haven't noticed a difference in people seeing me. That said, lanesplitting isn't allowed here. I can see how louder exhaust would definitely help with that.
The difference I have noticed is when riding the MTS vs. the 848. The 848 seems to be harder for people to see...that or they're distracted by it's beauty! :D
I know with my D&D's people do hear me coming! [evil]
That 80db federal law they speak of is not really the whole story, which is typical from the media these days. OSHA regulations require that employees exposed to noise above 80dbs for extended periods must wear ear protection, the article makes it seem like there is a federal law which states that an exhaust over 80dbs is illegal. If the SFPD starts requiring their motorcycle cops to wear ear protection, as everyone on a bike should do anyway, they are fully compliant with OSHA.
I don't know if loud pipes saves lives or not but I do know one thing, I can definitely hear my Arrows more than the stock cans. If I can hear 'em more then my loud freaking pipes gets peoples attention and my presence known more so than a bike that sounds like a sewing machine. Why do you think blind pedestrians are getting run over by Prius drivers by walking in front of them? They can't hear those jetson mobiles.
Quote from: Rotten Randy on June 10, 2008, 01:02:41 PM
Why do you think blind pedestrians are getting run over by Prius drivers by walking in front of them? They can't hear those jetson mobiles.
LOL! Is this actually happening!? [laugh]
Going from commuting on a bike in SF traffic, to commuting in a cage, let me put this in.
With the amount of noise on the highway (stop and go), loud stereos, loud exhausts, a terribly well insulated car and the like....
with numerous bikes lane-splitting past me....
I have yet to hear one before I saw it. No matter how loud the exhaust. Just nothing. I'm looking, specifically for my lane splitting brethren, and while I often see them before they go past me, I really, honestly, do not hear them at all.
I don't feel any safer with loud pipes. People still can't see you, they just hear a roar/rumble etc. Half of 'em probably think its thunder or a plane landing.
No bumper sticker just shirts sorry.
http://www.pjsparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60&products_id=485
Quote from: silentbob on June 10, 2008, 10:30:07 AM
Until I start travelling faster than the speed of sound, I'll keep my loud pipes.
[laugh] Science strikes again! IMO, the sound of louder pipes does help even if most of that sound is directed behind. Louder pipes that increase the decibel levels on the side and in front of you even by a modest amount may give you the few extra seconds of notice to other drivers that will save you a crash.
Quote from: SolidSnake3035 on June 10, 2008, 05:01:07 PM
LOL! Is this actually happening!? [laugh]
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6244387/car-news/boy-hit-by-quiet-prius-hybrid-spawns-debate/index.html
Quote from: someguy on June 10, 2008, 05:26:23 PM
I don't feel any safer with loud pipes. People still can't see you, they just hear a roar/rumble etc. Half of 'em probably think its thunder or a plane landing.
True. Although the dogs have gotten pretty good at identifying the sound of a Ducati. ;D
Alright alright, let's agree that the jury is out on this one.
Myself, I have moderately loud pipes (termis) and don't assume they make a damn bit of difference.
Are there situations where the sole factor between collision and avoidance is the sound level from the pipes? Sure. How often does it come down to that though? not very I don't think, there are too many factors. A misleading confidence can be borne of it too, eroding your instincts ever so much...
I can buy the it won't help tell someone your coming up fast.
But I'll laugh in the face of anyone who says it doesn't cut down on the number of soccer moms and cell phone execs drifting blindly into our lane.
You KNOW somethings next to you. [evil]
Quote from: MurDuc on June 10, 2008, 08:25:09 PM
But I'll laugh in the face of anyone who says it doesn't cut down on the number of soccer moms and cell phone execs drifting blindly into our lane.
You KNOW somethings next to you. [evil]
I'm still surprised at how often I get people changing into my lane even if I blip the throttle. When riding in heavy traffic I've checked my six and I'd say there are about 3 times as many people that veer away from me AFTER I've already passed them than BEFORE I pass them because the noise scares them.
I'd probably use my horn more if the button were closer, or if my hands were bigger. Blipping the throttle is easier for me when I'm covering the clutch and brake. But I don't rely on it either, just try to be hyperaware and ready to do emergency maneuvers.
The rental F650GS I tried out was so big for me, I had to lift my left hand off the grip to operate the turn signals. :P
I was just thinking the other day how I wish my bike was quieter, and my cored stock pipes are only moderately loud. I hate noise pollution, but I'll be darned if cagers don't glimpse and see me coming because of my volume. There's no way I'd ever be comfortable with a seriously loud exhaust. I think they're obnoxious and irresponsible. I'm a nerd.
I use my throttle to wake up drivers IN FRONT of me all the time. YMMV but I see drivers look in their rear view all the time when I give a blip. If you think your whimpy horn can do the same go right ahead but when I want someone to notice me I use the throttle.
My wimpy horn is 130 db >:(
I have a Suzuki DR650 with the stock pipe, which is quiet even for a stock bike, and a Monster with insanely loud pipes (they were already installed when I bought it). I've ridden the same route to and from work on both bikes and haven't noticed any difference in the way people respond to my presence. It's 101 going into San Francisco from the south, so there is usually heavy traffic, and I often split lanes.
You notice the most difference on nice days when people have the window down while Parked on the freeway. Those people notice the rumble coming almost everytime.
In terms of what I notice from a cage more.....
those strobe headlights? Yeah-I see those from FAR away. Those are worth far more for visibility IMO.
its funny how you can have so many opinions about something i think is so cut and dry. but i guess thats what makes the world go around. but i do notice that when i do the throttle blip, i see people looking. I rely on it to awaken the stupider people around me. it seems to work wonders [moto]
the ron [evil]
Quote from: the ron on June 11, 2008, 05:56:31 PMbut i do notice that when i do the throttle blip, i see people looking. I rely on it to awaken the stupider people around me. it seems to work wonders [moto]
Try looking beyond your mirrors.
I keed, I keed. [cheeky] [cheeky]
Quote from: Ducatiloo on June 11, 2008, 10:54:09 AM
My wimpy horn is 130 db >:(
you do not have a stock horn :P
It's just for decoration, man!
WOO-WOOOOO!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m249/Fade9150/bubrub.png)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccgXjA2BLEY
Quote from: the ron on June 11, 2008, 05:56:31 PM
its funny how you can have so many opinions about something i think is so cut and dry. but i guess thats what makes the world go around. but i do notice that when i do the throttle blip, i see people looking. I rely on it to awaken the stupider people around me. it seems to work wonders [moto]
the ron [evil]
Weren't you also saying in another thread less gear makes you ride safer?
when i'm in a car,loudish pipes i don't mind. except those insanely loud harley things that *BLLLLLAAAATTTT* when the throttle is closed.
i'm also not a huge fan of that loud jingly, penny in a tin can dry clutch noise. :)
Ah yeahhhh I gru up jus ousside Oaktown yall. Dis clip takes me bak ta ma stompin' grounns dog. Raiduh nayshun datz wut I'm sayun...playun dice dahwn on east foteenf.
I really like How the guy sped off from the muffler shop on the wrong side of the street and then ran the stop sighn Yo! >:(
Quote from: someguy on June 11, 2008, 10:38:33 PM
Weren't you also saying in another thread less gear makes you ride safer?
what does that have to do with anything? I dont understand ???
the ron [evil]
Quote from: msincredible on June 11, 2008, 06:14:49 PMTry looking beyond your mirrors.I keed, I keed. [cheeky] [cheeky]
how can i look beyond my mirrors? if i did that i couldn't see myself. i don't want to miss a thing! [cheeky]
really though i don't mean that its the only thing, but it helps. say for example, you are in traffic riding in the blind spot of a car. a little extra noise could help you, couldn't it? the ron [evil]
Quote from: the ron on June 12, 2008, 05:04:15 PM
what does that have to do with anything? I dont understand ???
the ron [evil]
It sounds as if you're advocating no helmet but loud pipes.
Quote from: someguy on June 12, 2008, 06:11:42 PM
It sounds as if you're advocating no helmet but loud pipes.
well, yes and no really. the pipe thing i think is a no brainer. anything that can help announce your presence is good. the last thing i think that someone wants is a stealth motorcycle. but the no helmet thing has a whole bunch of different aspects to it. and i posted that whole thread to kindve find out how everyone feels across the board. you know just a topic to talk about. thats why when i listed the poll, i put "danger aside" at the begining. but the helmetless thing has so many different issues, the one i find interesting is the government involvment in a citizens private business.
but i am conflicted when it comes to the helmet thing, like i have stated earlier, my helmet saved my life in a slow speed crash. but it was my fault. who knows, i don't have all of the anwers, thats why i love this site so much, it shows me that not everyone feels the same way i do. that is refreshing in itself, except when it comes to the 696 of corse...... :P
the ron [evil]
Quote from: the ron on June 12, 2008, 05:06:44 PM
say for example, you are in traffic riding in the blind spot of a car. a little extra noise could help you, couldn't it? the ron [evil]
It
might help...but not riding in someone's blind spot will
for sure help! ;)