My bike is the S2R 800 and it's fast enough - for now.
In the (near?) future I might want an upgrade. For me to get an idea about what I can expect from a bigger bike can you tell me
top speed, 0-100 or similar information.
Quote from: stopintime on June 09, 2008, 01:32:51 PM
My bike is the S2R 800 and it's fast enough - for now.
In the (near?) future I might want an upgrade. For me to get an idea about what I can expect from a bigger bike can you tell me
top speed, 0-100 or similar information.
Just wanna make sure I understand you. You're pushing the s2r800 to the point where you can't go any faster and you're doing it regularly enough that you want to go faster than the 800 will allow?
Did 125 indicated in forth on my s2r1k. Fastest I ever gone indicated was about 133 or 139 not sure absolutely did that once and that was it. Keep the 800 you dont need to go any faster. If you getting a larger bike for other reasons then upgrade later. I had a 800 for 60 days then upgraded because I used to get clowned on, my friends thought it was too small for me. I wish I would have kept it costs are far less.
-panthro
Quote from: panthro on June 09, 2008, 01:50:34 PM
Did 125 indicated in forth on my s2r1k. Fastest I ever gone indicated was about 133 or 139 not sure absolutely did that once and that was it. Keep the 800 you dont need to go any faster. If you getting a larger bike for other reasons then upgrade later. I had a 800 for 60 days then upgraded because I used to get clowned on, my friends thought it was too small for me. I wish I would have kept it costs are far less.
-panthro
Yeah my dimensions at the time were about 6'0" at 245. [roll]
I am not sure what the S2R 800 is capable of...but the S4R is certainly capable of an easy 140+ on a highway...My reservation for not taking it any faster is that the windshield is more for looks than practicality! I read that the S4R can hit 0-60 in 2.9-3.1 and 1/4 mile in 10.25 and Top speed of 156-164 (these are from memory, but close I think).
Having said all of this, I would probably be hesitant to upgrade for speed but instead torque. I think the S2R 800 probably has more than enough for driving on State roads.
Be safe and good luck!
The 620 can do 140 ;D
Well at 6'0" 230 and riding like a maniac on my s2r 800 I was able to get it up to 130 for an extended stretch without feeling insecure on the bike at all in 5th, I still had one gear to go. Thats why I say keep the 800. Not unless you are Ogre or some type of giant and need the extra muscle to pull your fat a## around like I did.
-panthro
Quote from: JBubble on June 09, 2008, 01:46:53 PM
Just wanna make sure I understand you. You're pushing the s2r800 to the point where you can't go any faster and you're doing it regularly enough that you want to go faster than the 800 will allow?
Top speed capabilities are fine as is (highest indication 135), but it's more about getting from one turn to the next without working the engine too hard. I do use all of it's torque and most of the revs on a regular basis - being able to go fast/hard without punishing the bike will save some maintenance costs in the long run? I already know that the 1k has about 35% more torque than mine. That's probably an important difference, but I'm still curious about what that actually means translated to the 1/4 mile or 0-60.
My thoughts on the upgrade is not the need to outrun anyone, just the need to have some numbers to compare. Let's say if the S4R does 0-60 in 3.0 , the 1k in 4.0 and my bike in 6.0 - then I would absolutely want the 1k. Anything less than one second slower would make me stick with the 800 and spend my money on other things.
Because of taxes here in Norway the upgrade will mean another $6k to the S2R1k or $17k to the S4RS. This means that there has to be a very noticeable gain for me to decide on the 1k engine. I know the gain of the S4R will be very noticeable ( [evil]), but I don't think I'll ever miss that kind of power.
I'll narrow my question: 0-60 and/or 1/4 mile for the 800 versus the 1k?
Quote from: JBubble on June 09, 2008, 01:46:53 PM
Just wanna make sure I understand you. You're pushing the s2r800 to the point where you can't go any faster and you're doing it regularly enough that you want to go faster than the 800 will allow?
I must say, that's about as close to a blatant misquote as I've ever seen. [roll]
The OP never said any such thing. Re-read what he said -- "the S2R 800 [is] fast enough - for now" -- "In the (near?) future I
might want an upgrade" (emphasis is mine).
He was simply inquiring into how much additional performance is available in up-line models. [moto]
Here's *some* info here, nothing on S2r800 or S2R1k.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/performancedata/122_0108_pDataResults/index.html
There are plenty of people on this board who can out ride an S2R800 without being as good as Rossi or Stoner.
No one can extract 100% from any machine, no matter how docile it is. The human is the weak link in the equation.
That being said, there are riders here who will be faster on the larger bikes for many reasons. The engine is more powerful, the upgraded suspension gives more confidence, the brakes provide better feedback and decreased stopping distance.
Not everyone who moves to a bigger bike is a squid.
The larger displacement bikes tend to make better street bikes too. On the track you always know what to expect at each turn and you can keep the engine in its powerband. In this case a small displacement bike can provide plenty of performance. On the street things are unpredictable and you typically don't keep the engine spooled up while cruising. So the broader powerband and larger HP of the bigger bikes allow you to ride more relaxed.
Quote from: silentbob on June 09, 2008, 03:10:12 PM
There are plenty of people on this board who can out ride an S2R800 without being as good as Rossi or Stoner.
No one can extract 100% from any machine, no matter how docile it is. The human is the weak link in the equation.
That being said, there are riders here who will be faster on the larger bikes for many reasons. The engine is more powerful, the upgraded suspension gives more confidence, the brakes provide better feedback and decreased stopping distance.
Not everyone who moves to a bigger bike is a squid.
The larger displacement bikes tend to make better street bikes too. On the track you always know what to expect at each turn and you can keep the engine in its powerband. In this case a small displacement bike can provide plenty of performance. On the street things are unpredictable and you typically don't keep the engine spooled up while cruising. So the broader powerband and larger HP of the bigger bikes allow you to ride more relaxed.
Language barrier: what's a squid?
You said it like I see it Silentbob - this would be my main reasons for an upgrade.
I checked the link you provided Speeddog. If it's fair to compare the 800 to "Sport 1000" or a "Supersport 900" - they have similar hp - then my bike is only a little more than a second slower on the 1/4 mile :) If this is close to true then I will be happy to keep my bike and start rebuilding brakes/suspension.
I'm still looking for the 0-60 specs but the top speed and power specs I found here
http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/vehicles/road/bikes/Ducati_monster_S2R_1000.html
The difference isn't as pronounced as I thought it'd be on the top end (8 mph -- 130 to 138mph).
The other stats from the page
HP -- 77 to 95
weight -- 173kg to 178kg
Quote from: oldjackbob on June 09, 2008, 03:04:13 PM
I must say, that's about as close to a blatant misquote as I've ever seen. [roll]
The OP never said any such thing. Re-read what he said -- "the S2R 800 [is] fast enough - for now" -- "In the (near?) future I might want an upgrade" (emphasis is mine).
He was simply inquiring into how much additional performance is available in up-line models. [moto]
You're right, but I don't mind being "misunderstood". My post might even indicate that I wanted the baddest bike in my town? It happens all the time online, I guess. Thanks for the support anyway ;)
Quote from: stopintime on June 09, 2008, 03:32:48 PM
Language barrier: what's a squid?
Not 100% accurate, but for the sake of this discussion: 'squid' = someone who rides a bike that is *way* more capable than the rider's skill level, and consistently rides beyond their skill level or beyond what is appropriate for the conditions.
IE, riding a literbike on a wheelie in heavy traffic.
Quote from: stopintime on June 09, 2008, 03:32:48 PM
You said it like I see it Silentbob - this would be my main reasons for an upgrade.
Additionally, and a bit of a counterpoint, your skill will improve faster on the smaller/less capable bike, because you can't use the extra capability to make up for your mistakes.
And it's really fun out-riding someone that has a better bike than you do.
Quote from: stopintime on June 09, 2008, 03:32:48 PM
I checked the link you provided Speeddog. If it's fair to compare the 800 to "Sport 1000" or a "Supersport 900" - they have similar hp - then my bike is only a little more than a second slower on the 1/4 mile :) If this is close to true then I will be happy to keep my bike and start rebuilding brakes/suspension.
I'd say a Supersport 900 is the closest to your S2R800, other than the 900SS will do a tiny bit better on 1/4 mile speed due to the fairing.
Quote from: stopintime on June 09, 2008, 03:39:09 PM
You're right, but I don't mind being "misunderstood". My post might even indicate that I wanted the baddest bike in my town? It happens all the time online, I guess. Thanks for the support anyway ;)
Nothing wrong with wanting the baddest bike in town! Just know your limits!
The reason most outride the 800 is because of the cheap suspension and braking components they used to keep the costs down.
Stop, with the suspension upgrades you're talking about I have a hard time believing you'll outride the powerband on the street even at your size. The difference into and out of the corners would be minimal at best if your riding it at the level you describe (braking done, in the right gear, good lean and corner speed, etc). A sloppy rider would see a bigger difference due to over braking up front, being out of the powerband and needing to "power" out of the corner to give the appearance of speed.
Would you potentially shave a second off of a lap? Maybe. Is that worth 6000 Euros? not in my book.
Again just my .02
P.S. To be fair and for reference.... I'm also considering whether or not I "move up" or not. I'd like to do some more aggressive riding on the track but don't want a seperate track bike so I'm exploring whether an 05-06 S4R makes sense.
Riding behind two newer SBKs in the twisties was a real boost, they constantly checked if I was still there - I was [evil] I'm sure they didn't push their limits though - unless they were squids. So, I guess I'm the opposite of a squid. The thing is that with my stock suspension I felt insecure as the bike was all over the place. But I see your point about being forced to do things the right way on a lesser bike, requiring quicker learning.
Thanks for the input guys. If there is a lesson for me here, it would be that the added 1k power won't do much for my ambitions. One second on 1/4 mile can't be worth it, at my local prices. On the other hand the upgraded suspension/brakes will.
My only concern now is to have enough safe fun on my upgraded & modded unsquidly 800 to quiet down that little devil sitting on my shoulder shouting about getting the baddest bike possible.
I value all the advise I get and will repeat that the forum experience has doubled the value (mod expenses and tax included!) of my Monster ownership. [thumbsup]
Quote from: oldjackbob on June 09, 2008, 03:04:13 PM
I must say, that's about as close to a blatant misquote as I've ever seen. [roll]
The OP never said any such thing. Re-read what he said -- "the S2R 800 [is] fast enough - for now" -- "In the (near?) future I might want an upgrade" (emphasis is mine).
He was simply inquiring into how much additional performance is available in up-line models. [moto]
What the hell? Thats why I asked. I figured that wasn't what he was saying but I wanted to make sure.
Christ. [roll]
Quote from: JBubble on June 09, 2008, 05:24:02 PM
What the hell? Thats why I asked. I figured that wasn't what he was saying but I wanted to make sure.
Christ. [roll]
No harm done [thumbsup] I appreciate any posts in my topics. Yours wasn't too far fetched.
Quote from: stopintime on June 09, 2008, 05:31:12 PM
No harm done [thumbsup] I appreciate any posts in my topics. Yours wasn't too far fetched.
Thanks man. I knew there was a little bit of a language barrier so I just wanted to make sure what you were saying. I can't give you actual numbers but I've got an s2r 800 now and used to ride regularly (aka everyday) with my ex who has an s4r. Significant difference in the quickness getting out of corners BUT he loved the lightness and sleekness (due to the big radiator on the front of the s4r) of the s2r 800 and 1000. Just my opinion, but I'd go with a 1000 but I'm making that decision with a heavy emphasis on looks.
Quote from: JBubble on June 09, 2008, 05:34:53 PM
Thanks man. I knew there was a little bit of a language barrier so I just wanted to make sure what you were saying. I can't give you actual numbers but I've got an s2r 800 now and used to ride regularly (aka everyday) with my ex who has an s4r. Significant difference in the quickness getting out of corners BUT he loved the lightness and sleekness (due to the big radiator on the front of the s4r) of the s2r 800 and 1000. Just my opinion, but I'd go with a 1000 but I'm making that decision with a heavy emphasis on looks.
My last comment....the S4R rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't even come close to tapping into its potential!!! Sorry, had to say that...again, good luck!
I HAD a old model S4r and now I have the Rs, and I have been on the 2v monsters.
At least far as THIS knucklehead is concerned the motor in the new R and Rs is a evil mill that will tempt you....no ALLOW you to accelerate at a rate that is pretty freaking insane to say the least. Granted my bike has the DP kit on it, but after my test ride on that bike I was trembling, the amount of power the 999 mill has on tap all over the place is really silly.
But thats a HUGE amount of money you are talking about, my advice is just to ride a R and a Rs and see for yourself, that MIGHT be a really bad ideal because the power is like I said incredibly linear and doesn't seem to quit until redline, my old (996) R could lift the wheel in second if you were on it hard, not far but enough to put a smile on your face. The New R and Rs have a problem with the front tire, as [evil]in it can regularly loose interest in the ground beneath it ;D. Power wheelies in 3rd are the norm on this bike and if you are hard on it in second it will let you know who is boss.
But to look at it another way your bike has around:
76 HP and 53 ft/lbs of torque.
a R or RS has:
130 HP and 76 ft/lbs of torque.
the 999 makes roughly ~ 60% MORE power then the bike you are on. And the power potential of that motor is much higher in my opinion, but again its a big cost. But all I can tell you is from my experience going from a 996 to the 999 it was well worth every freaking penny
I'd say this was a pretty productive thread based on the fact you found out what 'squid' means in american motorcycle terminology [thumbsup]
Do you even have squids in Norway?
they are pretty easy to spot actually, usually young, shorts and t-shirt and/or open-toed shoes, japanese bike, helmet optional.
Quote from: factorPlayer on June 09, 2008, 09:58:17 PM
I'd say this was a pretty productive thread based on the fact you found out what 'squid' means in american motorcycle terminology [thumbsup]
Do you even have squids in Norway?
they are pretty easy to spot actually, usually young, shorts and t-shirt and/or open-toed shoes, japanese bike, helmet optional.
Fewer every year as they often crash and insurance is extreme for them on their "must have" literbikes. We're talking $6-8-10,000
The answers I got has made this thread otherwise productive too. I've been able to put things in their right perspective and point myself in a new and maybe more constructive direction based upon facts. I was surprised how little difference there is on a straight line, going from my bike to a S4R - considering the huge power gain. I guess perceived power is more about torque and the difference is not as huge there.
Hey Stop. I’ve traded my 05 S2R800 for a S4RT last spring and am a big guy like you. Hopefully I can give you some straight answers to your questions.
Yes there is a LOT more power. For the record I cannot ride to any limits nor do I do stunts or speed excessively. 95% of my riding is commuting which I could do on a Vespa as easily as my bike.
While I haven’t tested top speeds or could I shift well enough to knock down 10 second 1/4s at the track, I will tell you that there is plenty of power. The best word for the Testestretta is "effortless'. The power delivery is faster and the response from the throttle is immediately gratifying. (Open airbox, Arrows and PC3 help)
More importantly I’ve found that the better suspension and brakes make this by far the easiest bike to ride that I’ve ever owned.(including 2 Yamahas)
I like to know that I have a “bad†bike but I’ve never crossed 100MPH nor have I ever done a wheelie (intentionally). I did not “outride†the 800 nor have I even done a trackday, and I didn’t get permission to buy it. I ride in full gear and exercise defensive and courteous driving habits and enjoy the hell out of my bike.
Buy what you want with your own money and enjoy it. If you think you will like a S4RS, then I am SURE that you will. Ride safely and enjoy the road. No one here has traded their RS in for a 800 BTW.
Always nice to hear from you Stop. :)
Quote from: stopintime on June 10, 2008, 04:13:27 AM
I was surprised how little difference there is on a straight line, going from my bike to a S4R - considering the huge power gain. I guess perceived power is more about torque and the difference is not as huge there.
Actually the smaller difference was between the S2R800 and the S2R1000. There is a huge gap between the S2R800 and the S4RT.
Speed of Monster S4RS w/ Termi system maybe????........80mph is straight up on the guage, the speedo needle disappears passing 140mph.
Took it to just over 150 indicated. A little more was left, but slow acceleration after 130.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l46EYgisrT4&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l46EYgisrT4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Quote from: Centerline on June 10, 2008, 10:00:55 PM
Speed of Monster S4RS w/ Termi system maybe????........80mph is straight up on the guage, the speedo needle disappears passing 140mph.
Took it to just over 150 indicated. A little more was left, but slow acceleration after 130.
Damn you man!
I was (almost) happy with my sensible and healthy plan - and then you re-post your video [moto]
Farewell savings/retirement plan, farewell any signs of maturity, farewell drivers licence ........
Welcome back little devil on my shoulder........
Damn you man 8)
Quote from: COWBOY on June 09, 2008, 03:35:34 PM
I'm still looking for the 0-60 specs but the top speed and power specs I found here
http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/vehicles/road/bikes/Ducati_monster_S2R_1000.html
The difference isn't as pronounced as I thought it'd be on the top end (8 mph -- 130 to 138mph).
The other stats from the page
HP -- 77 to 95
weight -- 173kg to 178kg
Not sure where they got those numbers, as far as I know, Ducati hasn't posted top speeds for those bikes.
Personally, I had an S2R800 and now have a 1000.
The 800 on a flat road, I reached 130, terminal speed.
The 1000 I have had to about 141 and it still had more, I just didn't have anymore room.
IMO, the 1000 does everything that the 800 did better. Much better in fact. Hell, I beat the hell outa my 1000 and it still gets better mileage than my 800 did when I was being good.
There really is nothing I can say that would draw me back to the 800....
Let the devil decide, but keep the rubber side down [thumbsup]
I love my s2r800. I don't race so the brakes and suspension are perfect for what I need them to do.
I get over 40mpg even when I push it.
Yesterday I decided to get the 1k - based upon a gut feeling - it just felt necessary.
So today, I tested it at my dealer - full Termi included.
I'm very happy because I will not have to spend the $12,000 between my '07 800 and a new Termized 1k. You see, it didn't even come close to impress me over my 800. Faster yes, but IMO only a little.
My mind is now back to making my 800 work the best it can for me (rebuilding suspension and brakes). That mindset is very in tune with my emotions and I'm looking forward to a long relationship with my bike. The little devil on my shoulder is gone.
You guys, and some soulsearching, enlightened me on the subject. It feels good to have done the work on deciding/redeciding. Of course, I don't rule out that a S4R will be of interest in the future. I will cross that bridge when and if I get to it.
Have you tried an S4R? If not, you should.
The S4R is a lot of fun... if your 800 makes you smile, then be assured that the S4R will draw a smile on your face ala Joker !! [thumbsup] I liked the power of the 800 when I had the chance to ride it.. but the amount of torque a 4 valve puts out is much more impressive. It won't be such as smooth as your 2v though and your clutch pull will be harder on the S4R. I wish the S4R was as smooth as your 800 and had a clutch pull light as yours as well. Also, I wish I had mine to go for a ride this weekend.. instead it is at the shop waiting for a new clutch... [bang] long story.. read the thread about the 3k miles clutch on the general forum and you'll feel my pain! [puke]
Glad to hear the easy decision after a test ride. Even better to hear that the devil may still be just over the horizion with twice the # of valves.
I know it is for me. [evil]
As for the s2r 800, even a minimal change of fork oil and springs-as opposed to completely replacing forks-makes a world of difference with the Marsuckies. I couldn't swing the SBK fork swap, but those fork changes and a new shock have dramatically increased my confidence in the bike...to the point that my average fuel economy has dropped from 40mpg to about 35mpg.
I can ride the bike that much harder through the twisties. Granted, my weight really overtaxed the stock fork springs, so as always, YMMV.
Stop:
Glad you worked through it and found your answer. Keep up the posts with how you decided to proceed with your upgrades.
CWBY
P.S. Let's put this in context for all you "get an S4R" posters....
For an additional $17K over the cost of the S4R (which is what the S4R upgrade would cost him) you could upgrade to a 1098R here in the USA. You should take one for a ride. I'm sure the power and handling will blow your mind. You won't regret making the switch.
;D [evil] ;D
His question was more one of economics and investment than power band for his size.
Quote from: COWBOY on June 13, 2008, 02:58:14 PM
P.S. Let's put this in context for all you "get an S4R" posters....
For an additional $17K over the cost of the S4R (which is what the S4R upgrade would cost him) you could upgrade to a 1098R here in the USA. You should take one for a ride. I'm sure the power and handling will blow your mind. You won't regret making the switch.
Hmmm... [laugh] 1098R $84,000 minus selling my 800 for $22,000 = $62,000 on my MasterCard [clap] Do NOT think so [roll]
Besides; I would most probably end up under the wrong heading in some statistics.
Don't you find our taxes absurd? The good thing (?) is that in light of prices for bikes almost any mods seem cheap ;)
I'll keep you posted on the steps to come - although it will take some time before the suspension work starts.
Quote from: stopintime on June 13, 2008, 04:00:58 PM
Hmmm... [laugh] 1098R $84,000 minus selling my 800 for $22,000 = $62,000 on my MasterCard [clap] Do NOT think so [roll]
Besides; I would most probably end up under the wrong heading in some statistics.
Don't you find our taxes absurd? The good thing (?) is that in light of prices for bikes almost any mods seem cheap ;)
I'll keep you posted on the steps to come - although it will take some time before the suspension work starts.
[cheeky]
I certainly wasn't suggesting you buy one. "Here in the US" are the main words in the analogy.
in the USA a S2R costs 8500 US Dollars, S4R is roughly 14000 USD and a 1098R is approx. 31K USD. The main point being others suggesting you spend an extra 17K to upgrade to a S4R is about as ridiculous as my suggesting they upgrade to a 1098R here in the US. The difference in price is not a small amount of cash.
get a used S4R [thumbsup] have your mechanic check it first though! 8)
I got an '04 S4r after an 800ss. Holy cow what a difference. On the 1/8 mile track, I could not keep the front end down at all. I think top end is 150 ish. My 1098s is more of a best yet. Top end on that is supposed to be 160 ish. I really liked my 800; very good road manners and usable power. The suspension on the 1098s is unreal. First thing I noticed was how smooth it was, and handling is better than anything I have riden. Upgrade you 800 and you will enjoy that more than dropping the cash on a bigger motor.
Quote from: COWBOY on June 13, 2008, 06:46:58 PM
[cheeky]
I certainly wasn't suggesting you buy one. "Here in the US" are the main words in the analogy.
in the USA a S2R costs 8500 US Dollars, S4R is roughly 14000 USD and a 1098R is approx. 31K USD. The main point being others suggesting you spend an extra 17K to upgrade to a S4R is about as ridiculous as my suggesting they upgrade to a 1098R here in the US. The difference in price is not a small amount of cash.
I got your point - I'm just playing with any ideas that are posted. A free spirit and curious mind or something like that :D
Quote from: IowaS4r on June 13, 2008, 08:27:59 PM
I got an '04 S4r after an 800ss. Holy cow what a difference. On the 1/8 mile track, I could not keep the front end down at all. I think top end is 150 ish. My 1098s is more of a best yet. Top end on that is supposed to be 160 ish. I really liked my 800; very good road manners and usable power. The suspension on the 1098s is unreal. First thing I noticed was how smooth it was, and handling is better than anything I have riden. Upgrade you 800 and you will enjoy that more than dropping the cash on a bigger motor.
That is my plan, at the moment [thumbsup]
Quote from: julianista on June 13, 2008, 07:47:57 PM
get a used S4R [thumbsup] have your mechanic check it first though! 8)
If/when my plan to be in a happy relationship with my 800 fails - a used S4R does seem like the logical option. Although, in a few years something new and even more interesting might have come along - part of the exciting Ducatitisti life style, I guess - enjoying it big time 8)
+1