I know we have a number of cook-gourmands on the forum, I am wondering if someone could recommend a good chef knife.
I have been looking at the Japanese makers in particular - Shun Classic, Hattori HD, Tojiros, and MAC pro series. I would like something in the sub $200 price range - a sub as possible - and something that fits a larger-sized paw such as mine. Damascus steel is real pretty, but, ya know...it doesn't cut up onions any better. It would be some nice kitchen bling, but not a hard requirement. TIA, y'all..
What size? What about zee Germans? Henckles or Wusthoff?
I can't recommend a specific brand, I tend to buy knives the way I buy hammers, based on how balanced they feel in my hand and that will vary person to person. But I will share the best advice I've heard about buying knives: Don't but a knife because it can keep an edge buy a knife because it can get an edge.
Probably the best guy to ask is the guy you have sharpen your knives.
sac
sometimes you can find "good" older knife sets at pawn shops and so forth...
aside from that...all I can say is that my 15+ year old Henckels still serve me quite well...I run my big chef's knife on my steel every so often...
that said, the Hattori HD-5 Santoku looks like a sweet piece...
The Ken Onion/Shun kitchen knives are awesome and pretty expensive. The Forschner/Victorinox line of commercial kitchen and meat processing knives are very inexpensive, are easy to sharpen and maintain and they have excellent handles - designed for people that have to use a knife all day in less than ideal conditions. The knives are also NSF approved which means that they have less places for bacteria and other nastiness to accumulate.
The steel is a little on the soft side but they take an incredible edge and when steeled as needed stay darned sharp. The most expensive knives in this line are probably about $30.00 I have about half a dozen of them in the kitchen - I really like their 5" and 7" straight-stiff boning knives for heavy meat cutting, cutting up chickens and butchering - about $18.00 each.
As far as size goes, I'm thinking an 8'"/210mm would do me. I have nosink against ze Germans, but it seems like more people recommend the Japanese knives these days for weight, hardness and sharpening angle. "Keep a German knife around for butchering, heavy duties" is what I keep reading. I have throwdown Kitchenaid I can probably use for that.
That's a good approach, Sac. I'm planning hitting a food snob retailer to try some of these, but anyone's first hand (sorry) experience would be good to hear.
I read good things about the Forschner - I would buy those for myself. This will probably be a Christmas gift from my wife, so I'm thinking something less strictly utilitarian.
Mother and I have a small set of these Shun's:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5034842646_7720fb4b6d.jpg)
I'm not really allowed to use them since I always manage to injure myself but he really likes them.
We also got a set of Hinckels as a gift and I love them.
Why spend that much money? The Forschner knives are routinely top rated by Cooks' Illustrated and they're a fraction of the price. I own a couple and couldn't be happier.
Quote from: JBubble on November 04, 2010, 12:50:27 PM
Mother and I have a small set of these Shun's:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5034842646_7720fb4b6d.jpg)
I'm not really allowed to use them since I always manage to injure myself but he really likes them.
We also got a set of Hinckels as a gift and I love them.
Beautiful [thumbsup] Doesn't look like they sell those any more...
Quote from: sugarcrook on November 04, 2010, 12:55:42 PM
Why spend that much money? The Forschner knives are routinely top rated by Cooks' Illustrated and they're a fraction of the price. I own a couple and couldn't be happier.
Well, some would disagree on equivalent quality (some knife nerds, not me), but I am with you on the apparent bang you get for your buck. This is going to be what Santa brings me, so I would prefer, but do not admittedly require something that makes me think "hey, I get to chop shit up with this cool knife" when I pull it out of my knife block.
I used to sell knives for a bit, and I can honestly say that Shun routinely puts out the best product out there that's not stratospheric in price. Not that they aren't expensive, they are, but they're worth every penny.
I have 3 different chef's knives that I grab, depending on what I'm cutting...
Wustoff Classic 8", kinda all arounder, had it forever, I prefer the shape of blade (more curvature), heft/feel over Henkels
Shun Ken Onion 8", fairly recent gift, seem to gravitate to it for chopping veggies alot...
Shun Elite 8" - i LOVE this knife. my go to knife for onions, rarely shed a tear, chopping tuna up for poke, any "finer" jobs. it is a little lighter than i would like, but I love that blade.
I love my Shun Classic 8"...use it for almost everything. [thumbsup]
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of expensive well-known knife companies now also sell cheap made in china knives (wustoff, heinkel, sabatier, etc)
I want this forschner set for xmas
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/forschner18.htm (http://www.cutleryandmore.com/forschner18.htm)
Quote from: il d00d on November 04, 2010, 01:03:25 PM
Beautiful [thumbsup] Doesn't look like they sell those any more...
...yet, they are the 2011's
-correction-
according to my uncle those are the 2010-2011 Shun Premier set, I thought we had the classic
regardless, they are really nice
but
Carl makes a good point, we rarely use them because I don't want to sharpen them out of fear of make the beast with two backsing them up
so...they sit nice and pretty and we use the Henckels for everyday stuff
I'm partial to my Global knives. I have ordered from www.chefknivestogo.com (//http://) and received really good service.
If the OP doesn't mind me piling on I have a similar but more specific question: I'm looking for an 8" chef's knife that has a very narrow blade. Doesn't have to be pretty, just has to have decent steel.
I'm also looking for a 7" boning knife. I spatchcock chickens a lot.
sac
/get your mind out of the gutter you sick bastard ;D
Try looking at these
http://www.mundialusa.com/ (http://www.mundialusa.com/)
The 5100 series. An 8" chef knife with full tang blade for under$40
I have the whole set. They keep a great edge and sharpen easily. I have my knives sharpened every couple of months.
My father in law was VP for this company and I was amazed by the quality. The set he gave me replaced my Henckels hodge bodge collection.
I love my Globals. Tend to be a bit on the light side. Hold a razor edge until my wife uses them. Nice not to have to worry about wood handles.
I checked out the Ken Onions before going Global and found them to be too bulky.
Quote from: Sắc Dục on November 04, 2010, 03:52:53 PM
If the OP doesn't mind me piling on I have a similar but more specific question: I'm looking for an 8" chef's knife that has a very narrow blade. Doesn't have to be pretty, just has to have decent steel.
I'm also looking for a 7" boning knife. I spatchcock chickens a lot.
sac
/get your mind out of the gutter you sick bastard ;D
I use a heavy bladed cleaver to butterfly my chicken, hack down each side of the spine. How do you do it with a 7" boner?
You just like to say "spatchcock"............
I agree that a sharp, heavy cleaver is the bees knees for disassembling chickens. I picked up a heavy Chicago Cutlery cleaver at the outlet in Lebanon, Missouri for under $10 and it has degooched hundreds of chickens since. Takes about 45 seconds per yardbird.
One semi-fancy thing I do with chickens is debone them and roll them with a stuffing. I think it is called a Gallintine or something on that order. There is actually very little cutting involved and you end up with all the chicken skin in one big piece with all the meat stuck to it except for two small subparts of the breasts which you peel out and place in the proper spaces on the skin. You can make any type of stuffing, (I usually make onions, mushrooms and cheese), roll up the bird and tie it with a series of half hitches. You can bake them or do them on the grill. Different and looks cool on the table.
I have Globals, and use them every day. My favorite Global was the santoku, but I gave it to my brother as a gift. I was in love with the design, but I have had them for about 3-4 years and they don't thrill me anymore.
A friend gave me a Japanese knife from a small hardware store in Berkeley ( http://hidatool.com/shop/shop.html (http://hidatool.com/shop/shop.html) ) and I love it. I think it was reasonably priced, and it takes a razor's edge faster than my Globals. The only problem is that with a high carbon blade, you have to wash and dry it right after you use it. Admittedly, I do neglect my Globals and leave them in the sink sometimes.
Japan woodworker also has some really cool Japanese knives http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13167&s=JapanWoodworker (http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13167&s=JapanWoodworker) I don't think you could go wrong with any of them, and you will have something unique.
http://shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html (http://shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html)
I have two kitchen knives I bought from Shosui Takeda when he was in Chicago for the Intl. Custom Knife Show several years ago. They are forgewelded laminated steel and are razor sharp but the cutting edges are extremely fragile and will not tolerate the slightest abuse. When you take that into consideration though - WOW do they cut!
Quote from: rgramjet on November 04, 2010, 04:56:05 PM
I use a heavy bladed cleaver to butterfly my chicken, hack down each side of the spine. How do you do it with a 7" boner?
You just like to say "spatchcock"............
I use a boning knife because I do just a bit more than a simple butterfly. When cutting out a back bone there is really only one major joint you have to get through. A sharp boning knife will go through the rest like butter. Find the joint and its smooth sailing. Then you already have the proper knife in hand to do the little work like removing the shoulder bones and poking a hole in the skin to tuck the leg through (and you could remove the ribs and wishbone or tuck the wings as well, but I don't). If you are just only removing the back bone a cleaver works great.
I'll use a cleaver for turning a whole chicken into eight pieces for frying, but not for spatchcocking.
sac
/spatchcock
I am guessing you have a knife already spend a few bucks and get them sharpened (professionally) and and get a truer. With regular maintence and trueing before every use the knife will stay sharp forever.
My Reagent Swords cuts thru anything.
I can't believe we're on page two and nobody mentioned Ginsu!! ;D
I have Wusthoff. What about ceramics? (I've never used one myself)
Quote from: iDuc on November 05, 2010, 01:10:57 PM
I can't believe we're on page two and nobody mentioned Ginsu!! ;D
or CUTCO....LOL
Quote from: iDuc on November 05, 2010, 01:10:57 PM
I can't believe we're on page two and nobody mentioned Ginsu!! ;D
I have Wusthoff. What about ceramics? (I've never used one myself)
I had a nice Kyocera(sp) ceramic chefs knife. Very sharp! It would be a great knife if you are the only person using it. If someone else (wife or other careless individual) doesnt give it the respect that it deserves, it will break.
I am about to put my Globals on a high shelf......keep finding them in the dishwasher or rattling around in the sink. Grrrrrrr!
Quote from: Sắc Dục on November 05, 2010, 10:42:44 AM
I use a boning knife because I do just a bit more than a simple butterfly. When cutting out a back bone there is really only one major joint you have to get through. A sharp boning knife will go through the rest like butter. Find the joint and its smooth sailing. Then you already have the proper knife in hand to do the little work like removing the shoulder bones and poking a hole in the skin to tuck the leg through (and you could remove the ribs and wishbone or tuck the wings as well, but I don't). If you are just only removing the back bone a cleaver works great.
I'll use a cleaver for turning a whole chicken into eight pieces for frying, but not for spatchcocking.
sac
/spatchcock
Im the opposite. I prefer using my boner to break down a chicken. Hit the cartilage just right and you get perfect prices.
/spatchcockin mofo!
;D
Quote from: rgramjet on November 05, 2010, 01:29:27 PM
I had a nice Kyocera(sp) ceramic chefs knife. Very sharp! It would be a great knife if you are the only person using it. If someone else (wife or other careless individual) doesnt give it the respect that it deserves, it will break.
I am about to put my Globals on a high shelf......keep finding them in the dishwasher or rattling around in the sink. Grrrrrrr!
I had a kyocera paring knife that was super sharp. It was dropped in the sink while a friend of an ex-gf was cleaning it, and about 1/4" of the tip snapped off. We kept it, but little by little the blade developed small chips in it.
I don't know if I would buy another ceramic knife.
You should see my mother's "knife drawer" ! A metal basket and about 15 knives just thrown in it. I bought her a block, sharpend her kinves and 3 months later they are back in the drawer. [bang]
Quote from: Mother on November 04, 2010, 03:20:27 PM
Carl makes a good point, we rarely use them because I don't want to sharpen them out of fear of make the beast with two backsing them up
so...they sit nice and pretty and we use the Henckels for everyday stuff
Dude...professional sharpening costs like $1/inch. Cheap. Use the sweet knives! ;D
I have a set of Henckels (from Costco, so low-mid grade) as well. The Shun's are so much nicer to use. The only downside is they are so sharp it seems like they suck your fingers into them. That's not really a downside, but rather user error.
Quote from: Triple J on November 05, 2010, 03:53:46 PM
Dude...professional sharpening costs like $1/inch. Cheap. Use the sweet knives! ;D
I have a set of Henckels (from Costco, so low-mid grade) as well. The Shun's are so much nicer to use. The only downside is they are so sharp it seems like they suck your fingers into them. That's not really a downside, but rather user error.
The bright side is that you see the piece of your finger on the cutting board before you actually feel it. Gives you a second to find something to bite before the pain finally sets in. Handy!
Also, it might be a good idea to take a class or get a book if you don't know how to use those fancy knives. I like this one:
http://www.knife-skills-book.com/ (http://www.knife-skills-book.com/)
It's amazing how many kitchen gadgets you can replace with a paring and chef's knife. Sprinkle in the occasional hammer and you're all set. :)
Quote from: JBubble on November 04, 2010, 12:50:27 PM
Mother and I have a small set of these Shun's:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5034842646_7720fb4b6d.jpg)
I'm not really allowed to use them since I always manage to injure myself but he really likes them.
We also got a set of Hinckels as a gift and I love them.
I have a couple of these and love them - highly recommended [thumbsup]
http://sellout.woot.com/?ts=1289338721&sig=fad261df46ecbd6b (http://sellout.woot.com/?ts=1289338721&sig=fad261df46ecbd6b)
Woots got the Shuns!
Quote from: rgramjet on November 09, 2010, 07:30:54 PM
http://sellout.woot.com/?ts=1289338721&sig=fad261df46ecbd6b (http://sellout.woot.com/?ts=1289338721&sig=fad261df46ecbd6b)
Woots got the Shuns!
That's a helluva deal. I'd prefer a bigger chef's knife, but that is a bargain.
Have I ever gone down the goddamn rabbit hole on this future hobby over the last few days. I have spent hours over at knifeforums.com, just cramming my head with trivia. But I think I have it figured out. Either a Hiromoto AS, Tojiro DP, or JCK Kagayaki CarboNext.
Hiromoto has a Aogami Super Steel (high carbon steel) core, clad with stainless, kind of the best of both worlds. Kagayaki CarboNext, which is supposed to be the same as a Kikuichi TKC, which is a current favorite among knife nerds, except $100 more expensive. Tojiro DP is my screw it, I am sick of comparing knives, this one gets good reviews and is less than $100 option.
I am also no longer interested in Damascus, and will be buying a Forschner to make Thanksgiving day prep easier. Also just to appease my inner tightwad - they are a whopping $35 with the fancy handle (link here) (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/foro8chkn.html)
For anyone who wants to join in my madness:
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/ (http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/)
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/index.shtml (http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/index.shtml)
http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?6-Fred-s-Cutlery-Forum (http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?6-Fred-s-Cutlery-Forum)
Quote from: il d00d on November 09, 2010, 11:26:12 PM
That's a helluva deal. I'd prefer a bigger chef's knife, but that is a bargain.
Have I ever gone down the goddamn rabbit hole on this future hobby over the last few days. I have spent hours over at knifeforums.com, just cramming my head with trivia. But I think I have it figured out.
For anyone who wants to join in my madness:
I did the same thing with the home brew thread. My wife rolled her eyes when I stupidly told her about my plan......
Quote from: rgramjet on November 09, 2010, 07:30:54 PM
http://sellout.woot.com/?ts=1289338721&sig=fad261df46ecbd6b (http://sellout.woot.com/?ts=1289338721&sig=fad261df46ecbd6b)
Woots got the Shuns!
That takes me to some touch screen recipe reader?
i have a shun knife the elite or middle series i believe, the big thing with me was the feel of teh knife and handle the more expensive ones didn't have a nice handle for me, so it was a matter of not liking the feel of the knife. it doesn't matter how "expensive" or good quality it is, if it doesn't fit your hand right.
also the ken onion ones are nice but they are literally double the price of the normal shun knives,if you got the money then spend it, but if you don't you are probably not missing out on much, its still a knife to cut the same foods.
that being said i like wustoff also, nice feel to the handle on the new ergonomic ones they have.
good luck, any name brand that you have heard of will be good quality the question is how will it feel balance and comfort for you, that is THE most important thing.
Quote from: Vindingo on November 10, 2010, 06:51:11 AM
That takes me to some touch screen recipe reader?
Must have sold out......or the 24 hour sale elapsed.....
So, I picked up an 8" Forschner the other day, and it has taken over primary hacking and slicing duties. I will really put it through its paces this week, but I thought I would give a quick review for the benefit of anyone cooking this week. Long story short: this may be the best $25 I have ever spent, or may ever spend on a kitchen tool. If you are cooking this week, I would strongly encourage you plop down the modest amount of money and make your seasonal chopping a happier and more efficient experience. Even if you have a good knife, pick one up to save yourself some sharpening, or as a backup.
Long story long: It is a super awesome knife. The blade is extremely sharp out of the box. I've cut myself accidentally more with this knife than with any other sharp instrument I have ever used. It effortlessly cuts through anything, and sometimes it does so en route to some part of your hand - a cleaning sponge, for example. I haven't needed stitches, but something this sharp requires your vigilance and respect. The handle is strictly business. Black, grippy plastic that is comfortable to use for a long period of time - what it lacks in any decorative qualities, it makes up for in utility.
A couple afterthoughts - I bought the 8, but I now I wish I had the 10. I have transitioned to the pinch grip (first finger and thumb overlapping the handle and "pinching" the blade) on the advice of the knife geeks, and while this gives you more control -as advertised- this shortens the effective length of the knife. 10" should be about right.
I am still going to get a far more expensive knife. Probably don't need one, but I want one. I am also glad I held a Shun before I got one as a gift. The Classics are made for small hands - I'm glad I wasn't put in the position to make it work. These seem like great knives, but they just don't fit me.
I have the 8" Forschner - it is a great utility chefs knife - does everything that needs to be done with little fuss. They are also very easy to keep sharp and to sharpen. I really like the Forschner 5 and 7" straight stiff boning knives also. They are great for heavier cutting and butchering and are usually a couple bucks cheaper than the chef knives. Very useful.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Chicago Cutlery. Unless their quality has dropped, great knives for the money. Good steel (easier to sharpen than most, though not as pretty), decent handle, full shank.
If anyone goes through Southwestern Missouri, there is an outlet store in Lebanon that sells Chicago Cutlery (along with Case and Buck) knives. A lot of seconds and overruns, sometimes at some dirt cheap prices. Lately Chicago Cutlery looks like they are trying to appear more upscale. IMHO they have snazzier looking designs but their actual blade quality slid a bit. (and of course their price went up)
I have picked up a pile of pretty useful kitchen products there at pennies on the dollar - if you pass through that area, its probably worth a stop.
I have a set of Gerber cutlery that I picked up about 20 years ago that handles my holiday chef's chores quite well. Chef's knife, bread knife, carver, and a fork. They're not made anymore, but I see them on Ebay once in a while.
When choosing a knife I think the brand name matters a lot less than making sure it fits your hand and taking the time to keep it sharp.
Santa was good to me - I got a 240mm Kikuichi TKC. I think I would have gotten the Kagayaki CarboNext, except they were out of stock - these two are pretty much the same knife, the TKC is a little more expensive and has different Kanji.
This knife rules - I loved the Forschner, I love the TKC more. It was sharper out of the box, and the blade shape is entirely different. It is also longer which probably accounts for some of that, but despite the added length, it seems to be a lot easier to handle. It feels more nimble. I have not cut myself yet (compare this to the first few bloody days with the Forschner) but stay tuned for a thread entitled "advice on prosthetics" if I do :)
Sac, if you wanted something thin (that is not a tall from edge to edge) this might do ya. J-knives are typically a different profile and this one is somewhere between a traditional/German/French chef knife and a carver.
In conclusion... spatchcock.
Always been a fan of the Norman Bates Signature Series cutlery
Quote from: RAT900 on December 29, 2010, 08:32:31 AM
Always been a fan of the Norman Bates Signature Series cutlery
IKEA?
Quote from: humorless dp on December 29, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
IKEA?
I kicked and trashed my way out of that make the beast with two backsing rat maze the one time my wife convinced me to go there...
store security followed me out to the exit....ONCE I make the beast with two backsING FOUND IT!!
I have never experienced such a horrific reaction to a store layout as I did in there with their deliberate little make the beast with two backsing claustrophobic pathways
through and around their mountain of low-rent crap
Quote from: RAT900 on December 29, 2010, 12:03:15 PM
I kicked and trashed my way out of that make the beast with two backsing rat maze the one time my wife convinced me to go there...
store security followed me out to the exit....ONCE I make the beast with two backsING FOUND IT!!
I have never experienced such a horrific reaction to a store layout as I did in there with their deliberate little make the beast with two backsing claustrophobic pathways
through and around their mountain of low-rent crap
Glad you enjoyed Ikea ;D The best part is the mislabeled how do you get it the 100 pound object down from the top shelf no one to help you and no ladder self service pick-up [bang]
Quote from: howie on December 29, 2010, 12:23:28 PM
Glad you enjoyed Ikea ;D The best part is the mislabeled how do you get it the 100 pound object down from the top shelf no one to help you and no ladder self service pick-up [bang]
This guy nails it regarding IKEA http://rodneyshaw.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/why-i-hate-ikea/ (http://rodneyshaw.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/why-i-hate-ikea/)
(https://secure.baremetal.com/ginsuknives/img/Miracle%20Blade%20Display%20Board.jpg)
So, I'm lame and ordered the Miracle Blade III series off TV.
I have to say that these knives are make the beast with two backsing AWESOME! I've had them for 7 years and never needed to sharpen them.
EDIT: NOTE: I have never tried to cut a steel pipe after cutting a leather work boot and then attempt to slice a tomato.
Not that I didn't want to, just never found the motivation.
Quote from: RAT900 on December 29, 2010, 12:31:38 PM
This guy nails it regarding IKEA http://rodneyshaw.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/why-i-hate-ikea/ (http://rodneyshaw.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/why-i-hate-ikea/)
That's funny as hell. I have been warned before about Ikea by friends. I'm sure there is nothing there that I will ever need.
[roll]
Ikea is just fine as long as you realise it is firewood temporarily organised as furniture
Quote from: Mother on December 29, 2010, 03:10:00 PM
[roll]
Ikea is just fine as long as you realise it is firewood temporarily organised as furniture
Isn't there more glue than wood in the stuff?
Quote from: humorless dp on December 29, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
Isn't there more glue than wood in the stuff?
yeah
match-light firewood
bypasses that whole kindling inconvenience
personally I dig Ikea
It's inexpensive and I can buy it and lug it to the mountain all in one trip
and it can be lifted with one person
"quality" furniture is a PITA unless you have an established residence
I've never been in one.
Quote from: humorless dp on December 29, 2010, 03:55:43 PM
I've never been in one.
me neither
I just walk out into my garage if I want to wander through cluttered junk
Quote from: lethe on December 29, 2010, 04:01:13 PM
me neither
I just walk out into my garage if I want to wander through cluttered junk
you've seen my barn. ;D
Quote from: humorless dp on December 29, 2010, 04:04:28 PM
you've seen my barn. ;D
birds of the same unhealthy feather
better than IKEA. ;)
I usually sharpen by hand, but have been looking into different options recently. This looked kind of cool...
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/demo.html (http://www.wickededgeusa.com/demo.html)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5006/5305664638_a774bb0b95_z.jpg)
I used to forge my own knives as I fancy myself a Smithy ;D Then...
I picked up this KYOCERA ceramic knife in Tokyo for $35.00
They used to be crazy expensive.
It's basically a freaking razor. It drops through a ripe tomato almost like it wasn't there.
No way you can get steel this sharp, and stay this sharp.
Here's way too much info:
Ceramic is not as durable if dropped onto let's say cement. Don't do that. And don't whack bones with it, or pry open paint cans either. However, it's way more durable against most food as it's far harder than steel.
Hardness = sharpness. However Hardness also = Brittle. So commercially made knives compromise and are tempered at a little less than "spring steel" hardness, so your average dumbass doesn't shatter them using them as a screwdriver or hammer.
We really want steel knives to be this hard and springy but no one makes them that way because, A) Stainless steel isn't capable of that, and B) they would break if not taken good care of like a samurai sword and you couldn't put them in a dishwasher.
The best steel knife you could hope for would be made out of tool steel typical of a very high-speed spinning tool like a drill bit.
There you will find metallurgy with a character able to both flex and obtain a temper that's quite hard. Nickel-chromium (the stainless aspect) is pretty soft. Carbon is very hard. Molybdenum adds ductility and extra tensile strength. You want that sort of combo to make a good knife.
(Molybdenum is the "Moly" and chromium is the Chrome, in "Chrome-Moly" that Ducati uses in it's frame steel tubes. )
Damascus steel is basically the same idea low tech version. It's a soft steel and a very hard steel folded together in very thin layers to create an alloy. There's a lot of fake Damascus steel knives at kitchen stores these days. If you can put it in the dishwasher, it's not really a Damascus steel knife. A real one would rust very quickly.
Basically, the better the steel, the harder, more exotic the alloy, the more unstable molecule it is and the faster it will decay into it's natural state, Iron-Oxide (rust). That's why you can't touch a Samurai sword with your hands without then cleaning it for 7 hours after.
Quote from: JBubble on November 04, 2010, 12:50:27 PM
Mother and I have a small set of these Shun's:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5034842646_7720fb4b6d.jpg)
I'm not really allowed to use them since I always manage to injure myself but he really likes them.
We also got a set of Hinckels as a gift and I love them.
That is a gawwdam beautiful knife IMO btw. lust. It has too much of everything and should be loved dearly.
Quote from: Vindingo on December 29, 2010, 08:14:35 PM
I usually sharpen by hand, but have been looking into different options recently. This looked kind of cool...
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/demo.html (http://www.wickededgeusa.com/demo.html)
Here's one that is popular on the knife forums
http://edgeproinc204.corecommerce.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System-c3/ (http://edgeproinc204.corecommerce.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System-c3/)
And here's one that is bound to be really popular on the Ducati Monster forums. Rat, what is your shipping address? I have a gift card I want to pay forward...
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/57145296 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/57145296)
Anybody ever try one of the Furi sharpeners?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QK-cYICbL._SS500_.jpg)
For father's day, I asked for a Chinese cleaver. Continuing in my tradition of getting exactly the tool to fit my needs and skills, and then replacing it with something more expensive that I don't really need, I got this $40 knife* (link) (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleaver2.html), with a $60 handle* (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckclwcumaha.html). It looks fantastic, but works exactly the same as the one with the less fancy handle.
This may be my new general-purpose knife since it is a good slicer, but also an unrivaled scooper of recently sliced things. I have come to appreciate big/long knives with my increasing comfort with the pinch grip, and so much more blade real estate was not really an impediment in adjusting. It it actually nice to have a bit more knife in my hand.
Anyways, I wanted to update this thread to recommend this $40 knife* (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleaver2.html) (but not necessarily this $100 knife* (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckclwcumaha.html), unless you like knife bling). It is great, and cheap, and made of high carbon steel...what's not to like?
I liked this thread, glad you bump'd it.
I have read good things about those CCK cleavers, and I think the custom handle looks much nicer than the stock handle. I probably would have made it myself, but only because that kind of stuff floats my boat.
I picked up the Wicked Edge sharpener. Its nice, gives me a super sharp edge but it was too expensive. I got buyers remorse the second I clicked "Purchase." I have used it to sharpen about 25 knives (my mother's, sisters's and mine) and it works well. I could never get a perfectly consistent edge when free hand sharpening, but this allows me to.
Much like your $60 maple handle, its hard to justify other than "I wanted it"
I have the Global GS 5 and the G 48 as my everyday kitchen knives. The waterwheel sharpener, keeps a great edge.
http://www.globalknives.com.au/knife-sharpening (http://www.globalknives.com.au/knife-sharpening)
Thanks Vindingo [thumbsup] The more I use it (and look at it for that matter) the more I like it...
Where do you stand with the buyers remorse at this point with the WE? I have been debating buying that or the Apex system - I think in either case, I am going to spend more than I want to, but will likely have a sharpening system I can use for many years. Do you use the diamond stuff or have you tried any of the new stones?
I ended up paying $200 for the WE b/c I got it 20% off on back-order. That special seems to be never ending though. The thing that bothers me about the price is that it is made over seas. If it was made in the USA, I would say it was worth $200. I'm sure that sounds silly, but I just doesn't feel like a $200 tool.
The standard kit comes with 100, 200, 400 and 600 grits. 100 & 200 grits are good if your knives are REALLY bad and want to put a new edge on them, but otherwise a waste. 600 does get your knives sharp, but it leaves some to be desired. I would have preferred if the kit came with the 800 & 1000 stones instead. I haven't purchased the extra fine/ultra fine (800&1000) stones because they are $60, and I don't know if I want to sink more cash into this system. It annoys me a bit that they weren't included or at least an option to switch for the 100&200 stones. I feel like the kit is incomplete without them.
I saw the water stones they offer, but they are $$$.
2:22 is impressive
Doing Some Cutting with the CCK 1303 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBCeiTmYfwc&feature=related#normal)
I do about 90% of my knife work the kitchen ith an 8" chef's knife. The two I have are terrible. After a long search I've narrowed it down to two:
$150 - http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mac-professional/chefs-knife-p18061 (http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mac-professional/chefs-knife-p18061)
$100 - http://korin.com/High-Carbon-Steel-Gyutou?sc=22&category=52095 (http://korin.com/High-Carbon-Steel-Gyutou?sc=22&category=52095)
The criteria were: No stainless, 8-9" length, small wood or composite handle (to fit hobbit hands), very thin blade with no hollowing and not super hard for easy sharpening.
I'm leaning toward the MAC because of the european profile. I'm not really familiar ith the more gradual taper of the gyutou.
Anyone have any insight, experience or bullshit conjecture to add?
In the meantime Bacon Junkie got me a rather nice knife that will certainly replace the crappy ones I have.
Thanks dude! [thumbsup]
sac
Water Stones do a real great job of sharpening and polishing but there is a whole other level of BS maintaining and using Water Stones. The stones are very soft and wear rapidly, requiring frequent flattening, (which requires yet another special stone - or a coarse round grinding wheel from harbor freight), etc, etc.
Be aware also that the grit ratings from Western stones and abrasives do not coincide with the grit ratings on Japanese waterstones. I have an 8000 grit waterstone, that when you bow to the East and burn some incense, and do a special little dance, it will put a polish on a blade that hurts the eyes to look at it, but it is the most contrary, unpredictable stone I have ever used.
I just use a medium fine diamond stone and a steel and my knives shave, slice paper thin tomatos etc.
I have a couple hand forged, laminated Japanese kitchen knives and they are great but for day in and day out use, those inexpensive Forschner professional knives work and work.
You've come to the right place for bullshit conjecture, my friend [thumbsup] ;D
I got a MAC petty (fat paring knife) along with the cleaver - it is the sharpest factory edge of any of the knives I have so far. My experience so far has been good, I have actually done a lot of small knife work now that have something to do it with. I looked at the MAC gyutos early on, but was distracted by shinier objects. I've not read a bad thing about them.
This is a new knife designed by the owner of the site - I would personally take a close look at this before I would circle back around to the MAC
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riaddshha1.html (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riaddshha1.html)
From the looks of the video, it is shaped more like my Forschner (fat and European) and less my like my Kikuichi (skinny and Japanese). It is actually looks pretty fat for a 240mm, which I would recommend over the 210.
And adding on to Warren J's comment, I still love using my Forschner, especially when I do stuff like cut bone away from a pork shoulder - I don't like the handle as much as the Wa (traditional octagonal) handle on my new cleaver or the Euro-style on my other chef knife but it does every job I ask it to do, admirably.
Before I picked up the WE system, I used the red and green DMT stones. They are quick and easy and should last for a long time. I still use them for my chisels. I don't really have the patience for waterstones. The mess and the flattening turned me off as well as having mostly SS knives. The diamond stones seem to cut the SS faster
I enjoy using sharp knives as much as the next guy, but after reading some of those knife forums... :o The level of craziness some of the guys go through... it's almost as if the sharpening itself is the hobby and not cutting up food to eat!
This thread needs more photos:
My latest obsession is this Tanaka petty
(http://thebestthings.com/knives/graphics/tanaka_petty.jpg)
The Forschner knives are like a Honda Nighthawk. They are real reliable, do their job and have no soul. You don't need anything more but what has "need" got to do with this stuff anyway. We ride Ducatis for heavens sakes.
This is the website for the guy who made my Japanese Kitchen Knives. He was at the Chicago Custom Knife show several years ago - It was interesting talking to him.
http://shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html (http://shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html)
Cool video
Made by Hand / No 2 The Knife Maker (http://vimeo.com/31455885)
I have two main knives, a 6" Miyabi Birchwood and an 8" Shun Ken Onion. They're both good for certain things, but I'd say the 6" is the most versatile. I've started to sharpen mine with a wet stone, I find it gets a much sharper edge than with a sharpening rod or a tool, but I was really apprehensive about ruining my knives at first.
(http://thedeliciousrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Shun-8in-chef-knife.jpg)
(http://database.zwilling.com/artikelbilder/enduser/560x270/34373200.png)
Learning to use stones for sharpening gives you a lot more options for working with a knife. Once you get the feel of it, you can put a shallow, slicing edge or a steeper chopping edge or anything in between. Are you using a steel to set up your edge after you stone it? That takes a sharp knife and makes it WOW! You can also steel as you are using the knife and it will maintain your edge longer between sharpenings.
Yea, the person who helped me get a stone going also recommended using a steel in conjunction, though technically the one I have is ceramic.
Has anyone tried the Schmidt Brothers ( http://SchmidtBrothersCutlery.com (http://schmidtbrotherscutlery.com) ) knives? They are supposedly of pretty decent quality for a mind-blowing price. I think I may have to pick one up for testing purposes.
How mind-blowing? It looks like they use something called Messerstahl steel (apparently stainless) - I see the HRC/hardness for this kind of steel anywhere from 40 (blah) to 60 (good). They don't say on their page, and that is a bit of red flag for me. Might be worth a few scheckles to check out - report to the class with your findings if you do get one, I would look forward to hearing about it.
You can get a really good 8" to 10" stainless chef knife for under a hundred bucks if you were looking for a bargain - I like the Tojiro, but there are plenty out there.
They have some interesting looking designs - the proofs in the using though. I wouldn't mind handling some of them
Quote from: il d00d on November 17, 2011, 08:50:41 AM
How mind-blowing? It looks like they use something called Messerstahl steel (apparently stainless) - I see the HRC/hardness for this kind of steel anywhere from 40 (blah) to 60 (good). They don't say on their page, and that is a bit of red flag for me. Might be worth a few scheckles to check out - report to the class with your findings if you do get one, I would look forward to hearing about it.
You can get a really good 8" to 10" stainless chef knife for under a hundred bucks if you were looking for a bargain - I like the Tojiro, but there are plenty out there.
How mind blowing is really the question here, and I aim to find out. How well does it take and hold an edge? How does it feel in the hand? Am I sexier with one in my hand? ;)
I have a few good knives - a mix of Wusthoff Classic and Shun - but I am curious about these. Report forthcoming, though it may be a few weeks.
Schmidt bros have some interesting designs, but they pimp the "German Stainless steel" too much considering there is no mention where the knives are actually manufactured. To me, writing made from German Stainless steel = Made in China. Is the price point really that great for a SS knife made in China?
Its the same crap that bugs me about how Apple write "Designed in California" on their products.
They may perform very well, but I am leery of designery knives.
Some of their knife blocks look pretty cool also.
I'm a fan of this one:
(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/thecut/2011/11/07/07_bestbet.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg)
I'm bringing this back to the top as I am in need of new knives for the kitchen. Specifically looking at chef's knives, cutting veggies only.
Additional thoughts?
Thanks.
I have a couple of the Santa Fe Stoneworks Damascus steel Kitchen knives. No gourmet cook but I like sharp knives!
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f149/Skybarney/DJS39HM-Hammered-Damascus-Santoku-7-Knife-610x508_zpsef6d3d78.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Skybarney/media/DJS39HM-Hammered-Damascus-Santoku-7-Knife-610x508_zpsef6d3d78.jpg.html)
http://www.santafestoneworks.com/shop/hammered-damascus-jewelry-collection-santoku-7-knife (http://www.santafestoneworks.com/shop/hammered-damascus-jewelry-collection-santoku-7-knife)
I still love my Shun 8" Classic Chef's knife...it's pretty much all I use and I'm the cook in the family, so it gets a lot of use. It's sharp, holds an edge well, and is very comfortable to use (super important). Plus it looks awesome, which really has no importance at all! [laugh] They're pricey though.
Cook's Illustrated reviewed Chef's knives and their favorite in any price range was the Victorinox 8" Chef knife. No frills, just a great knife apparently...and cheap. It continually wins their tests.
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Classic-Chefs-Knife/dp/B0061SWV8Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386623320&sr=8-1&keywords=victorinox+8-inch+chef%27s+knife (http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Classic-Chefs-Knife/dp/B0061SWV8Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386623320&sr=8-1&keywords=victorinox+8-inch+chef%27s+knife)
A lot is personal preference and what feels best in your hand. I have an older set of Henckels and I don't like them --too heavy, poorly balanced and the steel is too hard for my tastes. I like Forschner and Wusthoff for price and utility. But my favorite are Global Cutlery. Perfect weight and balance for my tastes, hold an edge forever and stay razor sharp. And there are no seams, rivets, etc to hold dirt and bacteria. The handles are dimpled so you can still grip well when wet, etc. They have a large line, too.
Quote from: Triple J on December 09, 2013, 01:11:48 PM
I still love my Shun 8" Classic Chef's knife...it's pretty much all I use and I'm the cook in the family, so it gets a lot of use. It's sharp, holds an edge well, and is very comfortable to use (super important). Plus it looks awesome, which really has no importance at all! [laugh] They're pricey though.
Cook's Illustrated reviewed Chef's knives and their favorite in any price range was the Victorinox 8" Chef knife. No frills, just a great knife apparently...and cheap. It continually wins their tests.
I ended up purchasing the Victorinox 8" Chef knife for right now. I will use this as a stop gap until something else pops up or catches my interest. I also purchased a magnetic strip for holding all of my knives. This should help to keep them sharp after the whetstone, strop treatment.