Hey!
I'm an industrial designer working on a Ducati Monster backpack. Do you think these examples speak at all to the Ducati Monster world?
What are you Monster Riders looking for in a bag?
[Ducati Tumi Collaboration]
http://theawesomer.com/photos/2008/08/081608_moto_1.jpg (http://theawesomer.com/photos/2008/08/081608_moto_1.jpg)
http://theawesomer.com/photos/2008/08/081608_moto_4.jpg (http://theawesomer.com/photos/2008/08/081608_moto_4.jpg)
[Orgio Flight Vest]
http://theawesomer.com/photos/2009/03/030909_ogio_1.jpg (http://theawesomer.com/photos/2009/03/030909_ogio_1.jpg)
[Boblbee]
http://www.boblbee.com/rw/artiklar/Artikelfullpost.asp?id=227&acc=true&flik=2 (http://www.boblbee.com/rw/artiklar/Artikelfullpost.asp?id=227&acc=true&flik=2)
For long rides with some weight in the pack, the Kriega backpacks have the advantage of their strap system which unloads the shoulders. The Ogio vest you link to follows that idea + it's always nice to have storage in front, but not as low as on the Ogio (will rub the tank?)
For shorter rides - anything goes. Chest strap is a positive.
I've never understood the use for a helmet net on a backpack, but that's just my opinion.
Red and/or white colors are cool - both for style and visibility. Add reflecting details perhaps.
Waterproof is nice, but often tend to make a pack harder to get stuff in and out of. Kappa make a nice white ~30L, but it's very deep and has a narrow opening.
Every time back packs are discussed, laptop space and protection are brought up.
If you're able to design a pack that is easier to take off and get on than regular packs - that would make it popular(Kriega is easy that way) My experience is that if the straps are tight enough to make the pack stable, it's very difficult to get off and on.
Hope this helps - good luck - keep us posted [thumbsup]
Agree with ^ for the most part. ICON has a military back pack that is awesome.
http://www.cyclesector.com/ICON_SQUAD_II_PACK_BACKPACK_MILITARY_SPEC_p/icon-luggage-squadii.htm (http://www.cyclesector.com/ICON_SQUAD_II_PACK_BACKPACK_MILITARY_SPEC_p/icon-luggage-squadii.htm)
Has amazing padding, laptop compartment, compartment for extra visor, holds helmet, etc etc. Can't even tell you're wearing it and after getting hit by a truck and landing on my back, it showed little to no wear. [clap]
Take a look at the stuff Kriega makes. Their stuff is hands down the best in the business.
(http://www.cyclesector.com/v/vspfiles/photos/ICON-LUGGAGE-SQUADII-2.jpg)
There is nothing that I need to carry that would justify wearing that thing. Ever.
As for the stuff the OP has linked:
I like the Tumi bag. Simple, straight forward. Classic colors, classic lines. Looks like capacity is a bit limited, especially when carrying a helmet, but it looks comfy with wide, padded straps and a waist belt.
The vest looks... interesting. As Lars mentioned, storage in the front is cool, but not at the cost of scratching paint. A couple of pockets up high - chest/shoulder level - are cool, but the big lower pockets look like they'd cause issues. Also looks an awful lot like it's trying to be a SWAT vest. Meh.
I really like the cargo net attachment ability on the boblbee, but I don't know that I'd ever wear a hard pack like that. The shape makes me think of turning it upside down and using it as a toboggan. It also makes me think that anything small I put in the pack is going to work its way all the way down to the bottom and be impossible to retrieve without dumping out the whole bag. If you could adapt that attachment system to, say, a larger version of the Tumi, I'd probably take a pretty serious look.
My own $.02. [coffee]
i dont' think the tumi bag for me does it,
the last pack with the aero shell and the netting on the outside that seems practical and about right,
what i'm looking for is something along the lines of a chrome backpack, soething that you have a cheststrap and maybe a waist belt so taht when its on it really on and no moving ever. then the chrome part i would like is a quickrelease for the straps so that you dont have to get your arms out but that the straps release easy when you need it. but mostly something that is aero and stays put, the axio cases seem to be not that big and that is why i dont' like them and also the hard shell is a bit limiting, so aero and not hardshell, tough combo but hey that is what makes it interesting.
Quote from: Buckethead on January 24, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
(http://www.cyclesector.com/v/vspfiles/photos/ICON-LUGGAGE-SQUADII-2.jpg)
There is nothing that I need to carry that would justify wearing that thing. Ever.
As for the stuff the OP has linked:
I like the Tumi bag. Simple, straight forward. Classic colors, classic lines. Looks like capacity is a bit limited, especially when carrying a helmet, but it looks comfy with wide, padded straps and a waist belt.
The vest looks... interesting. As Lars mentioned, storage in the front is cool, but not at the cost of scratching paint. A couple of pockets up high - chest/shoulder level - are cool, but the big lower pockets look like they'd cause issues. Also looks an awful lot like it's trying to be a SWAT vest. Meh.
I really like the cargo net attachment ability on the boblbee, but I don't know that I'd ever wear a hard pack like that. The shape makes me think of turning it upside down and using it as a toboggan. It also makes me think that anything small I put in the pack is going to work its way all the way down to the bottom and be impossible to retrieve without dumping out the whole bag. If you could adapt that attachment system to, say, a larger version of the Tumi, I'd probably take a pretty serious look.
My own $.02. [coffee]
Everything you described you'd want is in that ICON bag. The gay arm things come off and it comes in black, so...
Quote from: Scotzman on January 24, 2011, 07:28:47 PM
Everything you described you'd want is in that ICON bag.
I'm sure it's comfy, but it still has no front storage, can't carry an extra helmet while on the bike, and the fact that it's even offered with the arm bands offends my delicate sensibilities.
As for being "mil-spec," my L. L. Bean Bigelow meets all the same requirements with significantly more subtlety, and has a CamelBak pocket to boot.
I've seen that Icon bag in person...it's a bit much...and not in a good way.
Quote from: Buckethead on January 24, 2011, 10:09:29 PM
I'm sure it's comfy, but it still has no front storage, can't carry an extra helmet while on the bike, and the fact that it's even offered with the arm bands offends my delicate sensibilities.
As for being "mil-spec," my L. L. Bean Bigelow meets all the same requirements with significantly more subtlety, and has a CamelBak pocket to boot.
It does have front storage, but you have to undo the clips. There's a pocket on each side of the front portion and it has compartment that unzips to hold a helmet, it sits low, but might be able to ride with it (haven't tried). There's a water proof section that could be used to hold a bladder, but no hole to run a tube--got me there.
I agree about the arm bands though-taken off in the car after purchase.
Quote from: Monster Dave on January 25, 2011, 10:04:49 AM
I've seen that Icon bag in person...it's a bit much...and not in a good way.
The orange and yellow, I would most agree and would never purchase.
OP: some thoughts:
Who, SPECIFICALLY, are you trying to appeal to?
I am a Duc rider, but when I ride with a backpack, it's usually on a 2+ day trip. I have a pretty "set" packing list, and it does not include my laptop. My pack sees use 5-6 times a year.
If you're looking for someone who commutes on their Duc, then the priorities/design parameters are going to shift. Laptop storage will be more important than a CamelBak pocket. Easy accessibility might be on par with how much it moves while you're riding.
Lots of Kreiga info on this very site
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34411.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34411.0)
A so as far as function, they are tops. OF course, they give up some form for that function, but they aren't bad looking.
But I guess what's the intent of the design? Are you going for more form, or for more function?
What I look for personally. Comfort, Utility, Robust Construction and reflective materials. Utility covers a lot, but includes ease of use - fitting, buckles etc and smartness of the packs layout. Easy access small cargo pockets, key clips etc.
Quote from: Buckethead on January 24, 2011, 10:09:29 PM
I'm sure it's comfy, but it still has no front storage, can't carry an extra helmet while on the bike, and the fact that it's even offered with the arm bands offends my delicate sensibilities.
As for being "mil-spec," my L. L. Bean Bigelow meets all the same requirements with significantly more subtlety, and has a CamelBak pocket to boot.
The term "Mil-spec" for motorcycle gear is not necessarily for sturdiness or strength, but the reflective material, which is required to ride on post.
Quote from: 671M900 on January 26, 2011, 05:58:22 AM
The term "Mil-spec" for motorcycle gear is not necessarily for sturdiness or strength, but the reflective material, which is required to ride on post.
I'm aware. And as I stated, my L. L. Bean Bigelow, which looks exactly like this one:
(http://cdn.llbean.com/products/sporting_gear_apparel/60398/images/L60398_Ultramarine.jpg)
meets all the same requirements with a bit more "restraint." There's reflective piping on the back by the black vertical strips, and on the black bands on the shoulder straps. In the event of inclement weather it has a BRIGHT YELLOW rain fly that covers the whole thing and has a reflective L. L. Bean logo.
Of course, if you happen to be stationed on a Marine base, brightly colored/reflective gear is not required to ride on base. Ever.
I thought other branches (not Navy) joined the marines in the reflective/bright issue? My concern with the LL bean pack would be the waist strap scratching the tank or just being in the way.
All the Mil Spec stuff is seems to be mainly left to interpretation anyways. Who defines "bright colors" and what is enough reflective material?
Well I am a commuter, and I use a simple Ogio politan bag. I don't need it to hold or protect a laptop, although the padded back is always comfortable. I just needed a bag big enough to hold a pair of boots and riding pants while I am at work and small enough to fit in a file drawer with that stuff inside it. I think the new Dakar bag is the most similar one that ogio has in the new line.
Quote from: Scotzman on January 26, 2011, 09:54:15 AM
I thought other branches (not Navy) joined the marines in the reflective/bright issue? My concern with the LL bean pack would be the waist strap scratching the tank or just being in the way.
All the Mil Spec stuff is seems to be mainly left to interpretation anyways. Who defines "bright colors" and what is enough reflective material?
The command in charge determines what is a bright color and how much reflective material, just like how the commander cam authorize the low cut Oakley combat boots. I have an air force base and a nave base which I commute to weekly. Navy requires only reflective stripes, and airforce requires the fluorescent orange and yellow, which is reflective.
Quote from: 671M900 on January 26, 2011, 08:18:09 PM
The command in charge determines what is a bright color and how much reflective material, just like how the commander cam authorize the low cut Oakley combat boots. I have an air force base and a nave base which I commute to weekly. Navy requires only reflective stripes, and airforce requires the fluorescent orange and yellow, which is reflective.
Not to stray to far of from the OP, but show me anything (besides the Naval base in Ingleside) that's defined the colors in black and white. For example Navy Region Southwest which covers up to Lemoore and Yuma has nothing in any of their instructions defining "bright colors" and their Safety Manager says they don't plan on defining it because there's too many variables.
Back to backpacks.
Big Marine Corps came out a year or so ago and said "These rules are stupid, and they don't save lives. If people can't see a headlight, they're not going to see a silly-looking vest that our people resent having to wear."
Bright colors are encouraged, but not required.
Reflective materials are encouraged, but not required.
Long sleeves, gloves, DOT helmet, long pants are required. Sturdy "over the ankle" boots are recommended, but not required. Yes, you can ride to work in Corframs. Anyone else who rides and sees you doing so will openly ridicule you for it, but it's not a punishable offense.
Oh, and Big Marine Corps also came out and said "These are the rules. No, local commanders cannot change them. We're tired of seeing cases of people getting in trouble because they work on Base A and get busted for not obeying an LCP on Base B."
The emphasis is now on rider training. ERC/MSRC are now required <120 days after you do your BRC. We try to do a Rider Track Day once a month during the riding season. For those, we close one end of a runway and lay out a "road course" designed in conjunction with the California Superbike School. It counts as an MSRC refresher. It's also a ridiculously good time.
Quote from: Scotzman on January 26, 2011, 08:27:35 PM
Not to stray to far of from the OP, but show me anything (besides the Naval base in Ingleside) that's defined the colors in black and white. For example Navy Region Southwest which covers up to Lemoore and Yuma has nothing in any of their instructions defining "bright colors" and their Safety Manager says they don't plan on defining it because there's too many variables.
Back to backpacks.
A high-visibility upper garment is required by day and a retro-reflective garment is required at night IAW DODI 6055.4 para E3.2.7.1.5. and Army Regulation 385-55, Appendix B-3,e.
From the Army Motorcycle Guide
So, for the day time, High visibility, which is most often bright orange or yellow (like the ones for construction workers) The minimum is the PT belt, which comes in.... bright yellow or orange, not "subtle" as you like.
http://www.warren.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123046699 (http://www.warren.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123046699)
http://www.motorcycleppe.com/army.htm (http://www.motorcycleppe.com/army.htm)
and if you need the AR from the army itself: http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r385_10.pdf (http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r385_10.pdf)
It may be different where you are, and what service you are in, but when Icon terms their military gear mil-spec, it's to cover all services. It's not navy spec, marine spec, it's military spec. It may be different because I'm in the Army and your in the Marines (I assume), but that's my point.
With that said, I agree. If they can't see a headlight and my LED running lights, they won't see my vest. And yes, I also have a Bigelow.
I'm a commuter with a Kreiga r-25. As a designer, borrow and improve from that platform and you'll get a lot of attention. They're great bags - durable, large capacity and easy to wear. I use mine even when I'm not riding to carry books to work.
Again, "high-visibility", to one person that could be one thing and something different to another. The key phrase you used was, "which is most often...", but not precise. Still left to interpretation.
Being in the Navy on a Marine base I'm actually pretty familiar with both having to follow the stricter of whatever branch [bang]
So we have to wear over the ankle footwear. The Marines did a pretty extensive test following motorcycle incidents, which showed that too high of a percentage of the accidents tracked, a safety vest would not have prevented it.
It's too bad the other branches did not/have not followed suit.
Quote from: Scotzman on January 27, 2011, 07:46:56 PM
Again, "high-visibility", to one person that could be one thing and something different to another. The key phrase you used was, "which is most often...", but not precise. Still left to interpretation.
Being in the Navy on a Marine base I'm actually pretty familiar with both having to follow the stricter of whatever branch [bang]
So we have to wear over the ankle footwear. The Marines did a pretty extensive test following motorcycle incidents, which showed that too high of a percentage of the accidents tracked, a safety vest would not have prevented it.
It's too bad the other branches did not/have not followed suit.
Yes, I realize it, but does the dark blue ll bean fall under "high visibility"? Which is my point. Remember, the AR calls for BOTH reflective and high visibility colors, which blue is not. How often have you seen blue construction vests, vlue street lights, blue taillights?
I would honestly say that LL bean backpack is bright and Buckethead said it had reflective piping, so...
Police bikes have blue tail lights and I can see them a mile away.
Quote from: Scotzman on January 27, 2011, 08:18:05 PM
I would honestly say that LL bean backpack is bright and Buckethead said it had reflective piping, so...
Police bikes have blue tail lights and I can see them a mile away.
Hmm, true, but that's because it looks white due to the strobe effect. but that may be the only time I've seen it. I don't have the blue bigelow, I have a red one, which is really bright, so if the blue bigelow is indeed the same brightness then I concede. It's hard to say with just the digital picture.
hey so back on topic...
For me the biggest thing I wish more moto packs had were compression straps so i can tailor the pack to fit my load, not have to have different packs for different loads.
Second, those/all straps need to be contained somehow. My commuter packs is an old camelback and the loose straps whip the hell out of me on the highway. The best solution I found was those velcro like wire straps sewn to the end of the straps.
Third, I need pockets or zippers I can manage with gloves on. If I'm just getting gas, I don't like to take my gloves off so I can manage the zippers on my pack to get my wallet.
Lastly, weight management. I like how Kreiga solved the problem and as soon as I can afford one, I'll probably get one of their packs. As said above also, easy on/off is critical. I don't know how many times I've gotten stuck in that chicken wing pose when my jacket sleeve gets caught on the backpack strap and I've had to have someone else rescue me.
One problem I've found even with my agv sport backpack (which is moto designed, I guess) is that the padded portions of the straps are just barely long enough to clear my arm pits. the padded portion of the strap needs to be longer to clear back pad and shoulder armor, otherwise the buckles are in my arm pits = not comfortable.
Another problem is the width. It's so wide I can feel the wind pushing it around. but with no compression straps I can't cinch it down and decrease it's profile.
That Ogio vest you showed is pretty cool, and I considered getting one, but like other said the pockets low in the front are a problem. I think that vest was designed for dual sport and off road riders who would tend to have a more upright/standing riding position.
I like the helmet holder on mine. It's great when I go to shows that don't have gear check.
i was pretty torn btwn a kriega r25 vs a ogio no drag (both are comparable in price)... and eventually got the ogio. the main reason behind it is because of the helmet holder... i dont like the idea of leaving anything that will soon be pressed against my face open to the public and i always bring my helmet along with me. having somewhere to put it while freeing my hands was a must for any bag that i got...
that being said, the ogio is working out great, and dont let the pics fool you... it's a lot bigger than it looks. i was pretty suprised when i pulled it out as i was a bit worried it was going to be too small.
comfy on your back, and due to the semi rigid shape, you dont get any flapping in the wind from it.
i dont think you can go wrong with either bag, but like i said... the helmet holder won me over.
FWIW, I've had 4 motorcycle-specific backpacks and the only one I use to this day is the orange ICON Mil-Spec II pack (with the arm straps REMOVED). It looks much better in real life, has a very thoughtful design (I kept finding new pockets and features months after purchase) and is amazingly comfortable. Worth every cent.
having experienced some rather long rides with a backpack... what i'm looking for a in a backpack... is not wearing one.
if it's a short ride? small, light and waterproof. chest strap is a must, unless it's a sling style... which i hate.
Thanks for all the feedback guys! It's been very helpful.
I've made a short 8 question survey to help me get some more specific insight on the range of items you guys are actually carrying on you (if any), where you store them, and during what kind of rides you would carry them. This information will really help drive and refine my concepts and prototypes.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PF9829R (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PF9829R)
When i originally posted the question, I was at the very beginning stages of trying to define what it was I was going to design, so just being able to read your various responses helped me out a lot, and gave me a lot of good already-in-the-market products to learn from.
Thanks again for all of your help!
Post a separate thread for the survey - the few of us who posted here won't be of much help.
Help us help you help us [thumbsup]
Okay, thanks for the tip!
Oh, and forum rules dictate that sketches and ideations are required throughout the entire design process. Remember, pics or it didn't happen :)
Sure thing! I'll keep you guys updated :)