Ducati Monster Forum

Starting the hunt for a learner bike for Kristyn - she's getting sick of riding cupcake.

We don't really have the funds to spring for a Monster, especially given that she'll likely be flogging it off in a few years anyway.  I kinda liked the look of the Sachs Madass, but she thinks I'm insane.  Actually I admit I'm liking the whole doesn't-break-the-sound-barrier look of the Madass too, but then that's serious double standards.

So yeah, I'm up for suggestions.  She's a nutcase like me, only a little shorter.  I learned on an old Across - think sewing machine on steroids, complete with 16,500 rpm redline.  It was okay, but there really are easier bikes to get through the P's course on.

VTR250. Mini Monster!

Generally retain their value pretty well.


The way you ride with a pillion (faaast) I'd want my own ride as well!

I'm with Craig on the mini Monster VTR.
I was buying one before I discovered the real Monster.
Depending on how long she is going to keep it you might want to think about the CBR 125 also.
I have seen a few that have been striped and cafe-ed up and they look the business.

I really like the look/idea of a MadAss, but I've ridden one of the 125cc ones a bit and they're, ummm, compromised.

With me on board, it'll get to maybe 90kmh[1], but it takes a _long_ time to get there and gentle hill or minor headwinds will knock 10 or 15ks off that easily. If you're planning on riding it anywhere theres an 80 zone or faster, it becomes a game of energy conservation and mirror concentration to ensure you can avoid faster vehicles from approaching from behind.

I know the old "you need more power to accelerate out of trouble" excuse is too often bandied about by people who want to justify riding sportsbikes, but a MadAss 125 is a little scarey climbing up the southbound harbour bridge approach[2] struggling up past 70 while all the traffic around you is doing closer to 100...

I've got a Spada - the VTR250's predecessor, and it's a _much_ better bike for dealing with commuter traffic in 80 zones, and both it and the VTR are narrow enough that short people seem to handle them with ease.

I vote for the VTR250 (or a Spada if you're prepared to deal with a 20 year old bike).

big

[1] Shane, the scrawny ~60kg owner says the GPS records him having hit 97 once.
[2] it's actually quite a steep hill climbing up from down near where the the tunnel starts up onto the bridge deck - who knew? The Monster never notices...

well my first was a cb125n and then the suzuki, but im a short arse. i guess take her around the dealers and see what fits her the best and then look on the net.

Before I looked at your options I was thinking an Across Suzy.. But you'd be the best judge of that.

Pick of the list is probably the VTR though holding re-sale is a blessing and a curse.

IMHO I don't think anyone could ever go wrong with a CB250 or a GS500.. Cheap (relative).. HEAPS of parts around and knowing your tinkering skills, I'm sure that you two could come up with something very interesting with either of those as a starting point.

VTR250   [thumbsup]  My better half spent most of her learning years in one, she is only 159cm(stretched on tippy toes) , Plus it looks cool (yes mini monster), Stick some crash nobs on the side to protect the tank, and bonus no fairing to damage..

What she found great with the VTR is the seat is narrow and light. Now on the her lowered 620 (it's low ...the headers scrap over bumps), she has a hard time, as the extra weight, and the wider seat...not a small person's learner bike

Yes, very good re-sale value...but rather $$ to buy. We managed to get a VTR 2006 Reg-Write off, only 5000Km's, with a dent in the tank, missing 1 indicator and head light bezel for $3K...repaired & painted tank once she was confident and 10K Km's extra sold for $7K...
If your handy, you may find one around cheap with a little cosmetic damage, however check when it was written off.....rules have changed alot in the last year.

We got a VTR from this guy....ask for Rob..he looks dodge, however extremely helpful, and repaired the tank, painted, and swapped the original exhaust for a near new Staytuned system for a total of $300.....yes...$300.

You can even put in an order for a type of bike as he buy's them in from interstate, so you could get around having to put it over the RTA pit's

http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/bikes-for-sale/ (http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/bikes-for-sale/)    Press the side arrow button
http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/honda-vtr-250-2001/ (http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/honda-vtr-250-2001/)
http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/07-honda-cbf-250/ (http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/07-honda-cbf-250/)

I'll be selling my 620 in July/August... when my P's expire, if you haven't made up your mind by then!

Another vote for the VTR250 (and the Spada). The 620 monster is a lot more money and perhaps not as forgiving as the 250. The CBR125 is underwhelming, and the sachs, well read bigs post.... A second would be the postie!

Quote from: Jukie on May 25, 2011, 01:18:32 AM
well my first was a cb125n

I used to race those in the bucket err super light (or super commuter as it is now known?) category - also how I learned to ride whilst racing!  Be hard pressed finding a road worthy one! (I have one in the shed!)  ;D

good feedback guys ..................im in the mkt as well .............you get first pick though suzi...........regards hambo

Yea the VTR250, Spada, or the Suzuki Bandit 250 are all great bikes. I'd look past the Madass, they are great around town, but she won't be able to have much fun in the hills or take it on the highway. If she gets a 250 it will be much more forgiving than a 600 and a lot easier for her to get comfortable on. When she can ride the wheels of that she can move up to something more capable. A 250 ridden well can more or less keep up with most bikes in the hills anyway. Probably better to go for something naked as its quite easy to drop the first bike at the lights or whatever, plus oil changes and the like are a lot easier. I had a Spada 250, it was great, for about 3 weeks. Then the bottom end bearing died on it and it ground to a halt 300ks from home... I'd go for something newer with low K's that's had and easy life so it always starts first time for her... Good luck with the search!

Tom

Smell a bargain.....though quite a few bidders


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-VTR250-sports-black-motorbike-learners-REGO-/180671751591?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item2a10e025a7#ht_658wt_1139 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-VTR250-sports-black-motorbike-learners-REGO-/180671751591?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item2a10e025a7#ht_658wt_1139)

Suz
we have had both the VTR and the 125 at my place for Luba and Tyson
The 125 She will outgrow in a couple of months, great to learn on then your left with a bike that
struggles to keep up with traffic and climbing hills.  And has shit resale check how many are for sale on bikesales
low K's all the same story moving on yada yada.
The VTR is not only a great bike to ride brakes are good and the build quality is tops and low stand over height.
The motor is robust and will last for a very long time, resale is amazing ,we only dropped $1500 after
a year of riding.
If you get one go the older carbied model, slightly more power less plastic and easier to to tune with  better exhaust
Also whacked some aftermarket pipes (Roo racing) on it sounded great  [thumbsup]
Gets my vote. [beer]

Just check the VIn # on used that seem to have low K's  for cheap , few grey imports around

The Madass just don't go there  [bang]  the metal quality is so poor it will turn to a rusty heap within a year
there shit to ride too......... test rode one and could not give it back fast enough.

Kawasaki Balius - Ungodly noise in HD. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI3MD-TX748&feature=related#normal)

These make a pretty amazing sound for a 250 - more like an F1 car. Nice bikes too, but a bit rarer than a VTR or something for parts/service... Still  ;D

Quote from: Queestce on May 25, 2011, 05:20:43 AM
Yea the VTR250, Spada, or the Suzuki Bandit 250 are all great bikes. I'd look past the Madass, they are great around town, but she won't be able to have much fun in the hills or take it on the highway. If she gets a 250 it will be much more forgiving than a 600 and a lot easier for her to get comfortable on. When she can ride the wheels of that she can move up to something more capable. A 250 ridden well can more or less keep up with most bikes in the hills anyway. Probably better to go for something naked as its quite easy to drop the first bike at the lights or whatever, plus oil changes and the like are a lot easier. I had a Spada 250, it was great, for about 3 weeks. Then the bottom end bearing died on it and it ground to a halt 300ks from home... I'd go for something newer with low K's that's had and easy life so it always starts first time for her... Good luck with the search!

Tom

+1, well said to all that. A 125 is to small. My wife road a Ninja 250 for a year, and she just moved up to an M750.

Is that VTR a European, I've never seen one. Man, that is a great Monster knock off.

I started out on dirt bikes so don't have much cred when it comes to learner street bikes but my head says go with the VTR = baby monster.  I still think learning on a kick start small dirt bike did me a lot of good though.

Quote from: Tdubb on May 25, 2011, 06:53:10 AM
+1, well said to all that. A 125 is to small. My wife road a Ninja 250 for a year, and she just moved up to an M750.

Is that VTR a European, I've never seen one. Man, that is a great Monster knock off.

Nope, its just a Honda. Based on the old Spada/VT-250F engine so they are very reliable, capable bikes. They do look a lot like a Monster. People I'm with keep seeing people riding them and saying "Hey, they have your bike too!"...

Quote from: Queestce on May 25, 2011, 07:10:48 AM
Nope, its just a Honda. Based on the old Spada/VT-250F engine so they are very reliable, capable bikes. They do look a lot like a Monster. People I'm with keep seeing people riding them and saying "Hey, they have your bike too!"...

I think the VTR was released pre Monster ? If so not a knock off .
Hay Q is that youtube clip by any chance on the back road near Colac behind Great Ocean Road ?

If you wanted something that is V-Twin, single sided swing arm, and 250 I have seena couple of these around

(http://www.vyxxn.co.uk/catalog/images/honda%20bros650.jpg)

Honda Bros!!

Thanks guys!  I hadn't considered a Spada - I remember looking at them back when I bought my Across.

Oh well, come tax time we'll add up our money and see what we can swing.

Yeah, I say bugger the cost & go for one of these..........


Ducati Australia has announced a new capacity Monster being introduced exclusively for the Australian market and the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMs).

The new Monster 659 is based on the Monster 696 and shares all the same key features and benefits that has made the 696 a big hit with many riders including; lightweight, easy handling, low seat height and rider friendly V-Twin power delivery.



“Ducati has produced the new Monster 659 specifically for our market as we want as many Australian Learner rides as possible to have the opportunity to ride a new Ducati” said Warren Lee, CEO – Ducati Australia. “The 659 is based on the 696, already a very popular model with younger, female and less experienced riders, so it was the ideal basis for our LAMs model.”

As with all new Ducati motorcycles in Australia, the Monster 659 is covered by a 2-Year Unlimited Kilometer Warranty and 24 Roadside and Emergency Assist. So unlike an older or import model, Learner riders can ride the 659 with the absolute confidence and reassurance of a new Ducati and support should it ever be required.

The Monster 659 is expected to arrive and be on sale from early June with an introductory RRP of $12,990 plus Dealer and Statutory Charges. From late July / early August the Monster 659 with ABS is anticipated to arrive and will have an RRP of $13,990 plus Dealer and Statutory Charges.

Learner Rider can contact their closest Authorised Ducati Dealer for more information or purchase enquires.

Source: Ducati Australia


I should also add that this is advertised for sale today on the back page (full page advert) of the 'Bikes' suppliment in the Sydney Morning Herald.

Quote from: dan_t on May 26, 2011, 06:48:58 PM
Yeah, I say bugger the cost & go for one of these..........

Just two problems with that.  Firstly, there's just no way I'm gonna buy her a more expensive bike than my own.  Secondly, new monsters are ugly.  Yeah, I went there.

Quote from: suzyj on May 26, 2011, 07:09:26 PM
Just two problems with that.  Firstly, there's just no way I'm gonna buy her a more expensive bike than my own.

[laugh] [clap] [laugh] [clap] [laugh]

Quote from: suzyj on May 26, 2011, 07:09:26 PM
Secondly, new monsters are ugly.  Yeah, I went there.

That's why I have an S4RS!!
[moto]

go the VTR 250

I had one as my first road bike - I had bucketloads of fun on it. It's got enough go to do highway speeds comfortably, handles brilliantly and stops well. it's light and with a low seat makes it easier for a learner, the engines bullet proof and the hold they're value really well - down the track you'll have no probs with getting a good resale price either.

depends on a lot of factors

easiest to ride VTR250 / spada

extra short person the yamaha zeal as good arm length to bars

across like a lot of bikes is getting a bit long in the tooth, fairings become expensive to fix

there is plenty of bargains to be found if you keep your eyes open and are prepared to do some work yourself

just got a decent spada for a mate for $500

had a VTR250 as a commuter which i scored on ebay for $1500 , added rego, rode it for 5 months then sold for $3500

an across i got for $500, spent a bit of cash on it and sold for $2500

have had  a few ZZR250's for $500

some learner bike designations

Yamaha zeal is a naked FZR250 4 cyl
Honda hornet is a naked CBR250 4 cyl
Kawasaki balius is a naked ZXR250 4 cyl 250

Honda VTR250/SpadaVT250 V twin 250

Kawasaki GPX/ZZr250 parallel twin , both decent to ride , not quite as easy as a VTR and has fairings, been around since late 80's to only a couple of years ago

that VTR on ebay is a mixed bag , likely to have gone around the clock seeing as a 2000 model with new tyres, brakes , chain and sprockets , mixed speedo readings, a $750 staintune pipe complete with road rash ;)

i wouldnt bid without seeing it IRL

My girlfriend started out on a new VTR250 and loved it - so if you're after a naked then it is a good choice.  Haven't heard anything negative about them.

I still have my first bike - a '90 CBR250 - and it's still going strong.  The seat height is under 800mm so it is ideal for learners who are a little vertically challenged.  Plus there are plenty of them around for parts still.  It can't keep up with the bigger bikes on the straights, but can hold its own in the twisties.

I haven't heard good things about the new CBR250 so I wouldn't recommend one of those and I definitely wouldn't recommend any 125 (I think someone mentioned the new CBR125 before) - the tyres aren't any bigger than a postie bike!

Quote from: suzyj on May 26, 2011, 07:09:26 PM
Secondly, new monsters are ugly.  Yeah, I went there.

Wow i have never heard that one.

Amazing and the Monster rated 12th as Europes best selling bike in 2010 and second biggest seller for Ducati behind the Hypermotard.

Glad you went there.

Quote from: lila696 on June 04, 2011, 06:33:09 AM
Wow i have never heard that one.

Most people are more diplomatic than that [laugh] ... but Suzy had a financial reason for shutting down that side of the argument (personally it is really just the frame I can't come to terms with from an aesthetic point of view).

Quote from: lila696 on June 04, 2011, 06:33:09 AM
Amazing and the Monster rated 12th as Europes best selling bike in 2010 and second biggest seller for Ducati behind the Hypermotard.

Really? Outsold by the Hyper ... is that 'in' Europe or 'from' Europe?

I think the 'old' Monster used to make up more than 50% of Ducati sales ... but the range is more diverse nowadays.

In no way did I mean for this to become a 'new-style' vs 'old' debate so hope it hasn't come across that way.

Suzy, just get a mini-monster and make everybody happy [cheeky]

Well after much searching, it looks like we're going to make an offer on a '91 Spada.  These little bikes are just so much fun it's amazing.

Quote from: suzyj on August 29, 2011, 11:09:19 PM
Well after much searching, it looks like we're going to make an offer on a '91 Spada.  These little bikes are just so much fun it's amazing.

[thumbsup] How much!?

Quote from: Wells on August 29, 2011, 11:24:13 PM
[thumbsup] How much!?

They want $3.5K, I want to spend somewhat less.

It's in really wonderful condition though, so it's worth a reasonable amount...

I mention this place again....

A1 ROAD AND RACE
212 Princess Hwy Arncliffe 2205

Speak with Rob

I dropped and saw him recently, and he isn't doing reg write off's with the new laws, however have a chat with him and he will find you a bike in rego at a good price... here's a couple

http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/07-honda-cbf-250/ (http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/07-honda-cbf-250/)    Good late model with a scratch
http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/kawasaki-ex250/ (http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/kawasaki-ex250/)
http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/gsf-suzuki/ (http://www.a1roadandrace.com.au/gsf-suzuki/)

Not a Spada, however fairly good deals...and ask him what he can about the price...there is also room to move

He turns over a heap of bikes, so you really have to tell him what you're after.

We have had a few bikes from him over the years, and never had any issues.
Including a VTR250 06' 5000Km's, dent in tank, broken indicator......$3K

He even repaired a dent in a tank, and re-painted for around $150.....(I think under actually)

Worth a look if your still looking around

$3.5K for a 91' model is stretching it a bit......"Tell em' he's dreaming"...even if it is in good cond....it is still 20 years old, and probably sold for not much more than that back then..

Yeah, I'm with ya Suzy... 3.5K seems a touch high... I would have thought that would have been late 90s VTR money.
Price when new in 1991 (RRP)   $5,599
Classic rule of buying and selling, though, is that it's worth whatever you're going to pay for it.

Quote from: Wells on August 30, 2011, 02:09:31 AM
Yeah, I'm with ya Suzy... 3.5K seems a touch high... I would have thought that would have been late 90s VTR money.
Price when new in 1991 (RRP)   $5,599
Classic rule of buying and selling, though, is that it's worth whatever you're going to pay for it.

Good condition Spadas seem to go for premium money - more in many cases than much newer VTRs.  When you ride them it's obvious why - the Spada is a pretty high spec bike - 6 speeds and 40 horses, in a bike that weighs just 143 kg.  The VTR only has 32 horses and 5 speeds.

Good choice  [thumbsup]

Here's some horsepower to weight figures

900M   0.39 hp/kg   
695       0.38 hp/kg
Spada   0.28 hp/kg
VTR      0.2  hp/kg
S4R      0.57 hp/kg
Desmosedici  1.03 hp/kg

http://motoprofi.com/search.php?motorcycle=ducati+900m (http://motoprofi.com/search.php?motorcycle=ducati+900m)

the monster has really good ergos for the ladies, and its a bike she may end up holding onto a bit.

a buddy that has access to demo bikes, 848s and all, chose the 695 monster this monday. he says it is just really fun to ride.

Spada it is!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uGVvC4W6CO8/TmKqelk5KtI/AAAAAAAAAbc/BTyP8fdcguk/s640/DSC_1437.JPG)

It's the perfect bike for her - low enough that she can flat-foot, plenty of power, easy to handle, and looks really great.

 [thumbsup] beautiful!

Well done Suzy, that's awesome!

Nice!

Tip from the experienced, keep those white wheels waxed - they're hell to clean once the brake dust cooks it way into the white paint...


big - yeah yeah, waiting for the chorus of "What does _big_ know about cleaning bikes?  [cheeky] 

Quote from: suzyj on September 03, 2011, 03:34:24 PM
Spada it is!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uGVvC4W6CO8/TmKqelk5KtI/AAAAAAAAAbc/BTyP8fdcguk/s640/DSC_1437.JPG)

It's the perfect bike for her - low enough that she can flat-foot, plenty of power, easy to handle, and looks really great.

Congrats to you both - bike looks clean.

Looks awesome bike well done Suzy

Nice clean bike you got there Suzy. [thumbsup]
Wish my mum would buy me one ;D
A tip meguires alloy mag wheel cleaner realy good for bikes with all the alloy ,works a treat ;)

The spada name had me intrigued a quick google came up with Ercole Spada.  Italian automobile designer  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ercole_Spada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ercole_Spada)
So i am guessing this dude had something to do with the design?? ???

Quote from: bigiain on September 04, 2011, 04:26:02 AM
Nice!

Tip from the experienced, keep those white wheels waxed - they're hell to clean once the brake dust cooks it way into the white paint...


big - yeah yeah, waiting for the chorus of "What does _big_ know about cleaning bikes?  [cheeky] 

hey big, I'm guessing that it was the spada white wheels that made you throw in the cleaning towel and let the dirt win!