My neighbors Jack Russell Terrier (JRT) is always loose. There are four other JRT's in the neighborhood and mine (Lucy) and his (Jackie) play with the other dogs no problem, they are just not good together.
I have taken his dog home (so it wouldn't get hit by a car) at least a dozen times. I have been bit by his dog trying to break up our dogs fighting. They have fought at least ten times in the past five years. They have never fought in his yard, his dog is never in his yard. His dog has come onto my property and into my garage and started fighting my dog. Once my wife was walking Lucy and Jackie attacked them about ten houses from our home. My wife got tangled in them and fell down and a neighbor had to come out to separate the dogs and help my wife. I always let the owner know about each fight and I usually text him when I put his dog away. He always apologizes and I leave it at that because I have to live two doors down.
Saturday, while I was at work and my wife was out of town, I hired a neighbor (19 year old boy) to walk Lucy and of course Jackie attacked her again. Freaked out the kid and left two puncture marks on her neck. I let them go thinking they would heal. One did, the other is infected and after a visit to the vet, is going to need a drain installed in the morning.
So do I ask the guy to pay the $150 vet bill? I normally wouldn't think twice but I think he's not doing that great financially.
Buy him a dog chain, show him the bill, and tell him you're at the end of your patience and generosity
That's a tough call. If you think he's on hard times and you feel sympathetic still, let him know that his dog being at large will be costing you $150 and pay him forward a break. I'd think he'd be liable for the bill since his dog was loose and yours was on a leash.
Oh but you're a patient man!
They're responsible for their actions as well as their dog's. It's time they take responsibility -
financial mess or not.
They could be in a bigger heap of a mess with anyone else with less patience / more significant injuries.
They're lucky!
Good luck with this one!
I'm a dog person. I'd give him the bill. You've put up with enough. He may be a nice guy/neighbor but they are a shitty dog owner. If he doesn't pay the bill then tell him the next time his dog causes problems you'll call animal control and have the critter taken away. You've put up with enough of his and his dog's BS. Doesn't your city have a leash law? By the way, my best friend has a Jack Russell. Great dog and smart as hell! [thumbsup]
Quote from: Dan on June 07, 2011, 05:17:40 PM
Buy him a dog chain, show him the bill, and tell him you're at the end of your patience and generosity
He has a chain, a fence, a backyard, etc. The dog is a Houdini. After one incident he said, "We all can't be as good as you about keeping your dog in it's yard."
I've been patient because I know how it is to live with a bad neighbor so close. And did I mention he's a bit crazy? He has killed at least one possum with his crossbow, shot an arrow through another neighbors side gate (with kids in the backyard), and had to go to court after he tackled a 12 year old that flipped him off?
Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2011, 05:28:11 PM
He has a chain, a fence, a backyard, etc. The dog is a Houdini. After one incident he said, "We all can't be as good as you about keeping your dog in it's yard."
I've been patient because I know how it is to live with a bad neighbor so close. And did I mention he's a bit crazy? He has killed at least one possum with his crossbow, shot an arrow through another neighbors side gate (with kids in the backyard), and had to go to court after he tackled a 12 year old that flipped him off?
Get a bigger dog ;D
Quote from: fastwin on June 07, 2011, 05:23:45 PM
Doesn't your city have a leash law?
Yes.
I have considered taking the dog to the pound when it's loose just to cost him the fee. But then I pick her up and can't get myself to subject her to that because of him. It's not her fault.
Quote from: Dan on June 07, 2011, 05:30:11 PM
Get a bigger dog ;D
LOL
Oh mine can scrap. She just got the short end this time around.
(http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/hbliam/1307493393.jpg)
Playing it up for sympathy.
Show him the bill and the dog's wounds then tell him the next time his dog is out such that you have to deal with it it is going to the pound as a stray to be euthanized.
but be sure he doesn't have a bolt in the crossbow when you tell him?
Quote from: fastwin on June 07, 2011, 05:23:45 PM
I'm a dog person. I'd give him the bill. You've put up with enough. He may be a nice guy/neighbor but they are a shitty dog owner. If he doesn't pay the bill then tell him the next time his dog causes problems you'll call animal control and have the critter taken away. You've put up with enough of his and his dog's BS. Doesn't your city have a leash law? By the way, my best friend has a Jack Russell. Great dog and smart as hell! [thumbsup]
my thoughts as well. You can even say it nicely and let him know you would have no choice as you simply can't afford potential ongoing vet bills every time his dog attacks yours or take the risk that your wife might be accidentally injured if she happens to be walking the dog and it happens again.
I'm particularly sensitive to this issue as I own pitbulls who must be walked with a muzzle where I live. I've had them all attacked at different times by loose dogs, while on walks and they can't defend themselves, so I defend them with the my boot if I have to. I love all dogs, but I am sick to death of irresponsible owners letting their dogs run free and then acting schocked when their dog attacks one of mine, stating that their dog is normally "friendly".
Quote from: Drjones on June 07, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
Show him the bill and the dog's wounds then tell him the next time his dog is out such that you have to deal with it it is going to the pound as a stray to be euthanized.
my thoughts exactly, except i would leave out the euthanized part...no need to go there.
Get some dog mace and spray the shit out of the dog every time he comes around. He'll stop. He won't like it but if he's loose and attacking people/dogs, that's the downside.
I completely know what it is like to be you. I have 3 dogs of my own. I LOVE animals. My neighbor has 4 HUGE great pyrenese & he likes to breed them although he has no breeders license, so on top of the 4 adult dogs, he also always has puppies. He's also a beekeeper & don't even get me started on the bee hives he keeps literally 3 feet from my house. We live in the city, it's completely not legal. But, back to the dogs.. I love his dogs, but they are all about 6 feet tall when on their hind legs, he had a 4 1/2 foot fence that he somehow thought would contain them. His dogs would get out CONSTANTLY & often would end up in my yard. I would do the nice thing & take them back to him. One day, one of his dogs got out & was hit & killed by a lightrail train. After that, I stopped being nice. I started taking them straight to the SPCA & didnt even notify him. Although I also felt like I was punishing the dog, worst case scenario would be they would be euthanized which would be a way better way to go than being hit by a train. After about 3 times of him having to pay to get his dogs back he built a bigger fence & the dogs are now contained.
There was no reasoning with my neighbor either. I say take the dog to the pound when you see he's out. What if another bigger dog is out & his dog gets attacked or hit by a car or something? I personally think you're doing the dog a favor by removing him from the neighbor.
As for the vet bill, is $150 worth the potential drama asking for it could cause?
Quote from: elyse on June 07, 2011, 07:37:11 PM
As for the vet bill, is $150 worth the potential drama asking for it could cause?
how many times do you think he's going to have to pay that $150?
Quote from: ducatiz on June 07, 2011, 07:10:24 PM
Get some dog mace and spray the shit out of the dog every time he comes around. He'll stop. He won't like it but if he's loose and attacking people/dogs, that's the downside.
+1 You're a patient guy.
I like this solution. Making him pay likely won't solve the problem, as he hasn't solved it yet. This might make his dog leave you and your dog alone for good though.
I know you have a stash of pepper spray. [laugh] You could taze it too! [laugh] j/k
Taze it.. some people would have taken it out the first time.. it doesn't always pay to be nice.. I know from fhe..
Quote from: Triple J on June 07, 2011, 08:20:59 PM
+1 You're a patient guy.
I like this solution. Making him pay likely won't solve the problem, as he hasn't solved it yet. This might make his dog leave you and your dog alone for good though.
I know you have a stash of pepper spray. [laugh] You could taze it too! [laugh] j/k
I wouldn't tase a dog. Pepper spray wears off and it won't permanently injure them. However, dogs being dogs, they will forever remember the hand motion. If he yells something as he's about to spray it, by the third go-around, he won't even have to spray it anymore unless the dog is a real moron. Pavlov and all.
I am no fan of doing anything to dogs, esp ones like this that just need a better owner. But when you're fearing for the safety of people or dogs in the neighborhood, it's time to get tough.
Plus, when the dog runs home with a face full of mace, daddy is going to have to clean him off and enjoy the scent.
I'm liking this answer too! [thumbsup] Pepper spray the shit out of his pup. I bet that will stop it's nonsense. For that matter pepper spray the dumbass owner too while you're at it! ;D Spraying the dog is not lethal and you're not having it hauled off to the pound to be put down. Win win! [clap] This could work!
hbliam, you are a patient man and have done more to accomondate your neighbor and his dog. If I were you, I would have a camera / cellphone video recorder ready the next time you are out walking your dog, just in case that dog got out and attack you and your dog again. I know it's just a jack russel. But just in case situation like your wife fell down due to the dog attack, you would have video proof to back you up. I hate to see you end up on the short end of the stick.
I believe that there is no bad dogs, just bad owners. I don't care how good that jack russel is at escaping, the owner just isn't doing enough to prevent it from happening. I have a beagle and I know too well how he would escape, chasing a scent, and no yelling or screaming would stop him. So every time he is out doing his business, I will make damn sure he is secured and in my line of sight.
escaping dog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifLWO-CN3yM#normal)
Quote from: derby on June 07, 2011, 07:51:10 PM
how many times do you think he's going to have to pay that $150?
so far he has only had to pay it once... & that was a question for him. I can't nor can anyone else answer it for him....
As for the pepper spray & lasers others are talking about...he already said he didn't want to take the dog to the pound because of the potential trauma to the dog...
Pay your bill, don't ask him. It will get you no where.
Call your local animal control. Talk to them, tell then this is has been on going. (Both the dog getting out and the attacks on your and other dogs.) Keep in touch with them. Tell them not only about the most recent vet bill but your dog was injured.
When you are out walking your dog take an extra leash and a big stick. Keep an extra leash in the car too. If his dog is out and you can leash it, do it and call animal control, they will come pick it up.
(They have low tolerance for people not taking care of their animals or repeat offenders.) Big stick for if it tries to attack you or your dog.
It is not the dogs fault but the owner should be made responsible. If he can't be then he shouldn't get to keep the dog. The dog may be better off with a different owner. Let animal control decide this.
There are people out there to help you, contact them. You most likely will not get this resolved between you and your neighbor with out the help.
Hope this gets better for you and your family and neighbor hood.
Keep the dog
retrain it
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2011, 10:31:01 PM
Keep the dog
retrain it
lol you have come a long way. I expected you to say shoot it with your rifle.
Quote from: Heath on June 07, 2011, 10:57:44 PM
lol you have come a long way. I expected you to say shoot it with your rifle.
I like dogs
people...meh
Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2011, 11:25:16 PM
I think he'd notice.
call it a life debt
his dog bit your dog
you saved his dogs life by not killing it
his dog owes you a life debt
servitude until the debt can be repaid
simple
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2011, 11:46:26 PM
call it a life debt
his dog bit your dog
you saved his dogs life by not killing it
his dog owes you a life debt
servitude until the debt can be repaid
simple
ROFLMAO!! Canine Indentured servitude...brilliant
OK find a Jack Russell Rescue org in your area/region or maybe outside your area/region.
This dog needs to be rescued from a real asshole
Pack it up and deliver it
Throwing a dog out in a fenced in yard and not checking on it regularly is sloppy ownership at best
any dog worth its salt will always be probing the perimeter for weak spots or tunneling potential
Quote from: ducatiz on June 07, 2011, 07:10:24 PM
Get some dog mace and spray the shit out of the dog every time he comes around. He'll stop. He won't like it but if he's loose and attacking people/dogs, that's the downside.
Yep, +1. Go Rambo, the Dog Whisperer on her. I bet you only have to spray him once, well maybe twice. Those little dogs can be relentless.
As for your crossbow wielding neighbor, your best defense is to present yourself as a little crazier then him. Before you mace his pooch, yell "HELLO Jackie!", and spray away. The dog should associate your words with being maced. Then, the next time you cross paths with your neighbor and his dog, and he says, "what the hell u doin' to my dog?", look down and in a sexy voice say, "Hello Jackie". The dog will run like it's ass is on fire. Look at your neighbor and say, "whatever do you mean?"
I don't think this is a case of who's going to pay the $150.
My concern would be, who is going to get hurt next and how bad. Will the dog attack another dog, a neighbor or a child?
The pepper spray is a good idea. It should help minimize future damage.
Still getting my vote for the pepper spray. [thumbsup]
Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2011, 05:28:11 PM
He has a chain, a fence, a backyard, etc. The dog is a Houdini. After one incident he said, "We all can't be as good as you about keeping your dog in it's yard."
I've been patient because I know how it is to live with a bad neighbor so close. And did I mention he's a bit crazy? He has killed at least one possum with his crossbow, shot an arrow through another neighbors side gate (with kids in the backyard), and had to go to court after he tackled a 12 year old that flipped him off?
tell him to keep his dog in his own yard or you will take care of it.. he has to know you are LEO so he will listen to you if you tell him there will be consequences next time.
unlike the rest of us you can threaten him and he knows if he threatens you back he will have major problems on his hand. [leo]
Would the $150 be better spent improving his fence or building a dog run? Though I've never had a JRT and know a dog bred to be smart, energetic and phenomenally good at digging presents some special challenges, it doesn't sound to me like he's trying all that hard to be "as good as you" at keeping the dog on his property. If you present him with a clear choice of paying this bill (and make it clear he's on the hook for any further damages to people, pets or property) or putting the money into better fencing, he might see the logic of finally getting serious about stopping the problem at its source.
In the meantime, I'd say mace or pepper spray is an appropriate stopgap, especially since you've gone through actual training in how to use it.
And while I'd agree that this guy sounds like a piss-poor dog owner, sadly, taking the dog out of his possession just invites him to get another one. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy for anyone to acquire a dog, especially one with even more extreme behavior issues that this one (I'm talking about the dog, but I guess extreme behavior issues applies to the owner, too).
Quote from: ducatiz on June 07, 2011, 08:32:50 PM
I wouldn't tase a dog.
It was a joke. ;) I wouldn't taze a dog.
After pepper spraying it maybe get him a brochure for the electronic dog fences too.
Quote from: triangleforge on June 08, 2011, 08:58:34 AM
Would the $150 be better spent improving his fence or building a dog run? Though I've never had a JRT and know a dog bred to be smart, energetic and phenomenally good at digging presents some special challenges, it doesn't sound to me like he's trying all that hard to be "as good as you" at keeping the dog on his property. If you present him with a clear choice of paying this bill (and make it clear he's on the hook for any further damages to people, pets or property) or putting the money into better fencing, he might see the logic of finally getting serious about stopping the problem at its source.
$150 would get you about 10 feet long of fencing (incl labor), I imagine his yard is longer than that.
The only problem I see with pepper spraying the dog is what happens if it then runs into the street while blind to get away from you, and gets hit by a car? What legal liability have you then picked up with that action, and ensuing reaction?
Not to mention, your dog will most likely get some on it too, and you will have just as much fun treating your animal afterwards.
Best bet is to get the dog into the hands of animal control.
The guy probably can't afford to bail it out, nor get another one.
BC.
Quote from: Bladecutter on June 08, 2011, 10:01:25 AM
The only problem I see with pepper spraying the dog is what happens if it then runs into the street while blind to get away from you, and gets hit by a car? What legal liability have you then picked up with that action, and ensuing reaction?
none.
if a dog is threatening you or your dog, you can shoot it dead with no legal liability. if anything arises from pepper spraying the dog, it will fall on the owner for not restraining the dog.
even if the dog runs into the street and causes an accident for someone trying to avoid it, if you are sued, you will have easy recourse to dump the suit on the dog's owner for being irresponsible.
Quote from: Dan on June 07, 2011, 05:17:40 PM
Buy him a dog chain, show him the bill, and tell him you're at the end of your patience and generosity
i think the first reply was the best one ... i edited it slightly since you said he already has a chain for the dog. choose whichever more drastic step you want (calling the pound, pepper spray, getting the dog a good therapist to cure his napoleon complex, whatever) and tell the neighbor that's what you're doing next time. no more mr nice guy. that was his last chance. your responsibility is to protect your dog first and foremost.
How about an air horn? That would discourage both dogs to tangle with each other if each time they do, they get an earful. I personally would not attempt to get the neighbor to pay, but I would let him know what the vet bill was - if he is a good neighbor, he will offer. As shamelessly optimistic as this may sound, I like to give people the opportunity to do the right thing on their own.
And if he does not offer to pay, let him know he will be on the hook next time, or that other actions (calling animal control) will be needed.
Quote from: DucofWestwood on June 08, 2011, 11:25:46 AM
i think the first reply was the best one ... i edited it slightly since you said he already has a chain for the dog. choose whichever more drastic step you want (calling the pound, pepper spray, getting the dog a good therapist to cure his napoleon complex, whatever) and tell the neighbor that's what you're doing next time. no more mr nice guy. that was his last chance. your responsibility is to protect your dog first and foremost.
Nope. All the neighbor is going to hear is that you are threatening his poor little dog. Take what ever action you want, but don't tacitly ask the douchebag's permission for it. what are you expecting, that he has a moment of enlightenment right there and apologizes and promises to try harder in the future? That's pretty damn optimistic and generous towards your fellow man. And you sure as make the beast with two backs don't owe him fair warning as to your plans if his dog should attack yours again.
Keep you vet bill. Get pictures if you can. Talk to your neighbors who have had to deal with this themselves. And if it ever approaches you or your dogs again feel free to kick that make the beast with two backser so hard it lands back in its own yard.
Or call animal control. we had a similar situation with a pitbull in our neighbor hood. Owner was a douchebag and the dog got out all the time and started coming to our house. we called animal control and they had received so many calls that they took the dog away from the guy (and made him get his other dog shots and a license). Since it as a pit it was likely sheltered briefly and then put down. I didn't lose a wink of sleep over it. Some people should not own dogs. If your not up for using your boot to correct the dog's behavior then call early and call often. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to let them know about this incident just so they have it on record.
sac
Quote from: sbrguy on June 08, 2011, 08:30:13 AM
tell him to keep his dog in his own yard or you will take care of it.. he has to know you are LEO so he will listen to you if you tell him there will be consequences next time.
unlike the rest of us you can threaten him and he knows if he threatens you back he will have major problems on his hand. [leo]
Actually, I have less use of my Constitutional right to free speech then you do. If I did what you said he could file a complaint that would likely result in me getting unpaid days off or worse.
Just picked her up from the vet. I'm kinda pissed now. Poor dog.
(http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/hbliam/1307576666.jpg)
Drain installed in one of the punctures.
(http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/hbliam/1307576709.jpg)
Worn out from the drugs and drama.
My dog ran over and attacked a passing dog one day. The owner mailed me her bill from the vet. I think it was $125. I just paid her.
He might pay you. Getting bills from the vet is a strong motivator to keep dogs under control.
Quote from: hbliam on June 08, 2011, 04:47:51 PM
Worn out from the drugs and drama.
i've been there before. ;D
http://store.parsonspestcontrol.com/catchmaster-24grb-giant-glueboards.aspx (http://store.parsonspestcontrol.com/catchmaster-24grb-giant-glueboards.aspx)
[cheeky]
I've gone back and forth on what is really a trivial deal (considering what IZ has going on) and I've decided to take the bill down to him and see what he says. Partly because it was one of those days where I was handing my debit card to everyone paying my own bills. While paying the vet, I felt like "why the heck should I have to pay for this too?" I already have to deal with a sick/injured pet (semi depressed, have to watch her closer, no walks, blood stains on her sheets).
He told me to pound sand.
(http://tomskit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/162805_lg.jpg)
Quote from: hbliam on June 08, 2011, 07:57:11 PM
He told me to pound sand.
Then the gloves are off... >:(
[bacon]
Time to throw a steak over the fence.....not tainted or anything, just a big ole cooked steak. If its anything like my dog, it should shit all over his carpet at about 3am.
Sucky part is if you or anyone else reports the dog to animal control, he will think its you.
Id probably wait a few weeks before the steak stunt....
Quote from: The Bacon Junkie on June 08, 2011, 08:04:06 PM
Then the gloves are off... >:(
[bacon]
I went back a few minutes ago and explained to him that I wasn't back to talk about the money. I told him I believed I had been patient with him for years in an effort to be a good neighbor. I explained that him telling me he wasn't responsible for his dogs actions was beyond belief and wasn't a statement that made me believe he was putting in the same effort to be a good neighbor. I then told him the thing that bothered me the most about our whole conversation was the fact that he never asked how my dog was.
He apologized for what he said and agreed that I have been more then patient. He agreed that he was responsible for the bill and seemed to be on the verge of crying. I let him know the reason I had never pushed the issue was because we have to live so close and because I like his dog. He showed me how the dog had got out and how he was going to fortify the yard.
I think I was on the mark from the beginning. I think it was a financial problem. I also remembered some neighborhood scuttlebutt about him having a problem with depression.
I left it at that. I'm supposed to give him a copy of the bill. In the future I'm going to call animal control to come get his dog if it's loose. I feel better that he made a 180 from the pound sand conversation.
Quote from: hbliam on June 08, 2011, 08:18:50 PM
I think I was on the mark from the beginning. I think it was a financial problem. I also remembered some neighborhood scuttlebutt about him having a problem with depression.
1. you have balls
2. you have patience
that's pretty cool. good on you that you kept it up.
(http://www.couponing101.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/doughnuts.jpg)
Ship the offending dog to Bakersfield. If you need a specific address pm me. ;D
Quote from: red baron on June 08, 2011, 08:50:07 PM
Ship the offending dog to Bakersfield. If you need a specific address pm me. ;D
I have that address actually. :)
big ups for being the kind of neighbor I'd want to have around me (and I generally hate people).
Quote from: Dan on June 07, 2011, 05:17:40 PM
Buy him a dog chain, show him the bill, and tell him you're at the end of your patience and generosity
Agreed. You can only be a good neighbor for so long.
Quote from: redxblack on June 08, 2011, 09:34:11 PM
big ups for being the kind of neighbor I'd want to have around me (and I generally hate people).
It's more of a finally learned from experience type of thing. I've taken teh dick route in the past (I know, you guys are shocked) and then had to live with the tension until I moved. I own this place and don't foresee moving until home prices go back up. Hey, maybe I'm getting older and wiser?
Quote from: hbliam on June 08, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
It's more of a finally learned from experience type of thing. I've taken teh dick route in the past (I know, you guys are shocked) and then had to live with the tension until I moved. I own this place and don't foresee moving until home prices go back up. Hey, maybe I'm getting older and wiser?
It happens to all of us.
To Lucy's quick and complete recovery [bacon]
Well done -- fingers crossed for things continuing on a right path, including a speedy recovery for your Lucy.