Poll
Question:
Would you be tempted?
Option 1: No. I want to pay $200 for a compliance sticker.
Option 2: Yes. I'll put the savings towards paying the fine.
I'm in need of a new helmet and have decided on a Shoei XR1100.
Cant seem to get the one I like for less than around $700 locally..... yet the very same helmet can be bought from the US for around $470 shipped, but of course it lacks that legally required label. Am I really gonna pay $230 for an AS1698 sticker? If I wasn't such a law abiding citizen I'd be very tempted.....
Just for the sake of discussion..... Would you pay the price and play it safe? Or risk getting a ticket for technical non-compliance?
I wouldn't worry about a ticket.
Knowing how insurance companies try to avoid paying up though, I'd never ever wear a helmet with the wrong sticker.
(head/neck injury 'caused' by a non-legal helmet)
Being a bit of a helmet junkie, having only four currently and eyeing off #5
I understand your dilemma but I think the above answer says it all.
I ticket for not having a 1698 sticker is one thing, your insurance company not covering you should the worst happen, well that's something else all together.
Personally I wouldn't risk it.
yeah,I'd be tempted...
I've never had my helmet checked in all me years riding... except for trak days, which is a good enough reason not to, for me.
Having just had a pile of decals made for me pushbikes, I'd suggest getting a friendly printer to make stickers for ya :)
Instant compliance.
Does that difference include the shipping?
For only a couple of hundred difference, I'd back the local helmet.
Great choice of helmet by the way!
Quote from: dan_t on July 27, 2011, 03:37:12 AM
Does that difference include the shipping?
Local = $700 shipped (more at a walk-in retail outlet) vs US =
$470 shipped $460 shipped - thanks to the ever mightier AUD.
Quote from: suzyj on July 26, 2011, 11:59:04 PM
Having just had a pile of decals made for me pushbikes, I'd suggest getting a friendly printer to make stickers for ya :)
Instant compliance.
l was never quite sure but now I know your a naughty girl Suzyj !
;)
Quote from: suzyj on July 26, 2011, 11:59:04 PM
Having just had a pile of decals made for me pushbikes, I'd suggest getting a friendly printer to make stickers for ya :)
Instant compliance.
I wouldn't think twice* about "breaking regulation" because of a silly little decal. That's an awesome helmet and as safe as anything out there.
* I'm an idiot and no one should ever take my advice.
Insurance puts the dampener on it for me. Otherwise id have half a dozen by now. Bloody Australian Standards Rubbish.
Couldn't agree more on the AS compliance BS. Especially when there are other global ratings out there which far exceed it (SNELL for eg)
But in the eyes of the [leo] and the insurance BA$TARD$ riding with a non AS complianced lid is the SAME as not riding with a lid at all. [thumbsdown]
I would like to disagree with the Australian Standards bashing that we are giving them.
You see the standard is there for a reason, to protect us, or we would end up with crap like the stuff that comes out of china/india/pakistan.
Maybe its the middle man that has grabbed our cash.
Mmick with my 2c worth
I think it's your last sentence that says it Mmick.
The middle man might well ne the one who grabs the cash.
I know when the fancy Momo helmets came into the country a few years back the importer had to send them through Aus standards which I'm sure was pretty expensive!
AS bashing aside I think we'd agree that when it comes to pricing here we don't really get the best deal...
In the market for a new helmet myself, but cause you never know what might happen, then I'll get one locally.
I don't vare about the [leo] giving me a fine - it's the insurance company that refuses to pay for non-compliance that is scary.
On one of the other Oz forums, a guy spent 6 years in & out of courts arguing the toss with the insurance company - who wants that kind of hassle ?(was going to say that kind of headache, but... ;D )
What code do they actually charge you with if you are fined with wearing a non compliance helmet?
If they fine you with "not wearing a helmet" when you actually are it would get overthrown surely if you contested it in court.
There would have to be a code that is actually for not wearing a compliance helmet or the fine is useless? It would be interesting to know.
Just thinking out loud.
QuoteHelmet law
The NSW Road Rules 2008 requires that:
The rider of a motorcycle must wear an approved motorcycle helmet securely fitted and fastened on the rider’s head,
The rider of a motorcycle must not ride with a passenger unless the passenger is wearing an approved motorcycle helmet.
Helmet standard
An approved motorcycle helmet is a protective helmet for motorcycle riders of a type that:
Complies with Australian/New Zealand Standard AS/NZS 1698:2006 Protective Helmets For Vehicle Users, as amended by Amendment No. 1 of 28 September 2007 and Amendment No. 2 of 27 May 2009; or
Is an earlier version of Australian/New Zealand Standard AS/NZS 1698 or Australian Standard 1698-1988 that was in force at the time of manufacture or importation; and
Has a mark certifying compliance with an above standard.
So they would fine you for not wearing an approved helmet
Yep if you get pulled over and checked you will get booked.
Quote from: wrxmy99 on July 30, 2011, 02:33:31 AM
So they would fine you for not wearing an approved helmet
Nothing in your list says the mark must be affixed by the distributor. My reading would be that as long as it's an approved model, then affixing a mark yourself wouldn't be breaking the law.
Quote from: wrxmy99 on July 30, 2011, 02:33:31 AM
So they would fine you for not wearing an approved helmet
Yes but what code do they use? The people you talk to about this law state that the police actually fine you for not wearing a helmet at all if you are caught with a non compliance helmet. Surely this would not stand in court if you were to contest it.
The law in Vic states precisely this:
"Riders and their passengers must wear helmets approved to Australian Standard AS1698 or AS/NZS1698, and these must be securely fitted and fastened on their heads. The helmets must have a mark indicating AS1698 or AS/NZS1698 approval."Quote from: Twizted on July 30, 2011, 07:34:06 PM
Yes but what code do they use? The people you talk to about this law state that the police actually fine you for not wearing a helmet at all if you are caught with a non compliance helmet. Surely this would not stand in court if you were to contest it.
As
wrxmy99 already said, they would charge you with not wearing an approved helmet.
"Riders and their passengers must wear helmets approved to Australian Standard AS1698 or AS/NZS1698"Seems that in the eyes of the law, the wearing of a non-approved helmet is no different to not wearing a helmet at all. So whether you wear a non-approved helmet or wear no helmet at all.... either way.... you are not wearing a helmet approved to Australian Standard AS1698 or AS/NZS1698!
Quote from: suzyj on July 30, 2011, 02:59:25 AM
Nothing in your list says the mark must be affixed by the distributor. My reading would be that as long as it's an approved model, then affixing a mark yourself wouldn't be breaking the law.
You raise an intersting point.
If the model of helmet you bought from overseas was of
exactly the same make, type, model and specification as one available locally - one which has been submitted for AS testing and designated as approved - then as long as you applied a label which complied with this:
"The helmets must have a mark indicating AS1698 or AS/NZS1698 approval" how would you then be in contravention of local law?
Quote from: ungeheuer on July 31, 2011, 03:17:04 AMIf the model of helmet you bought from overseas was of exactly the same make, type, model and specification as one available locally - one which has been submitted for AS testing and designated as approved - then as long as you applied a label which complied with this: "The helmets must have a mark indicating AS1698 or AS/NZS1698 approval" how would you then be in contravention of local law?
From what I know (not an AS citizen) it sounds like that he doesn't want to pay the fee to have the helmet put through inspection to get the sticker ($230AUD).
It goes on to define accreditation.
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/motorcyclesafety/motorcyclehelmets.html (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/motorcyclesafety/motorcyclehelmets.html)
Accredited companies
Accredited companies that certify motorcycle helmets can be found on the JAS-ANZ website.
As of October 2010, there are four JAS-ANZ accredited bodies that can certify motorcycle helmets to comply with AS/NZS 1698......(company logos are listed here)
Quote from: wrxmy99 on July 31, 2011, 09:02:29 PM
It goes on to define accreditation.
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/motorcyclesafety/motorcyclehelmets.html (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/motorcyclesafety/motorcyclehelmets.html)
Accredited companies
Accredited companies that certify motorcycle helmets can be found on the JAS-ANZ website.
As of October 2010, there are four JAS-ANZ accredited bodies that can certify motorcycle helmets to comply with AS/NZS 1698......(company logos are listed here)
Yes, but no accrediting company has seen my helmet. A helmet of the same type as mine was given to the accrediting company by the distributor. Upon successful testing, the distributor then affixes stickers to other helmets of the same type (including mine). They charge quite a bit of money for putting the sticker on.
I see nothing in the law that says any particular person has to affix the sticker. So if you buy a helmet from OS that is the same model as one that is sold here with AS sticker, and affix your own sticker, then as I read it you're not breaking the law.
The only real issue that I can see is that of the accreditation company who's sticker you're copying getting grumpy at your unauthorised use of their trademark, but that's completely separate from the issue of the legality of the helmet.
QuoteMotorcycle helmets manufactured after 31 March 2011 must have an identifying mark from a body accredited or approved by the Joint Accreditation System of Australia and New Zealand (JAS-ANZ) certifying compliance with an above standard.
Love the fight Suzyj but I think you'd be drawing a long bow there.
There would have to be some gotcha somewhere for fraudulently falsifying an AS Sticker. Its also on the labelling inside the lid.
Don't get me wrong guys, i think the whole thing sucks balls and is a blatent rip off of the average aussie just like duke prices and everything else we pay more for here even though the AU$ is skyrocketing (don't give shipping and logistics BS, its just a "market factor" uplift. Most companies do it simply because they can)
But the plods will get you if they can and if having a bad day (like my [leo] on OPH was that fateful morning) they will throw the book atcha.
So then....
The Shoei with Aus compliance @ $720...?
(http://www.mcas.com.au/products/3b325400dd.jpg)
Or the same Shoei from OS without the required appellation @ $460...?
(http://www.mcas.com.au/products/3b325400dd.jpg)
Neither as it turns out.
I bought an Arai Vector complete with the bloody AS1698 label, on special @ $500.
(http://www.mcas.com.au/products/89b099c544.jpg)
Quote from: ungeheuer on August 04, 2011, 04:17:07 AM
So then....
The Shoei with Aus compliance @ $720...?
(http://www.mcas.com.au/products/3b325400dd.jpg)
Or the same Shoei from OS without the required appellation @ $460...?
(http://www.mcas.com.au/products/3b325400dd.jpg)
Neither as it turns out.
I bought an Arai Vector complete with the bloody AS1698 label, on special @ $500.
(http://www.mcas.com.au/products/89b099c544.jpg)
A mate of mine just ordered the Shoei XR1100 in Australia for $500 delivered, I think its the one with the Japanese sun on it, should be here by friday.
Mmick
Quote from: monstermick58 on August 11, 2011, 04:21:46 AM
A mate of mine just ordered the Shoei XR1100 in Australia for $500 delivered, I think its the one with the Japanese sun on it, should be here by friday.
Mmick
Nice. Where did he find such a bargain?
Quote from: ungeheuer on August 11, 2011, 07:14:36 AM
Nice. Where did he find such a bargain?
I think it was Bikebiz, not 100% sure though.
Mmick
Quote from: monstermick58 on August 11, 2011, 11:26:30 PM
I think it was Bikebiz, not 100% sure though.
Mmick
Bikebiz do have some good pricing on XR1100, but as of five minutes ago... nothing under $600... and the one I like is $699.95 :(
Semi off topic... but on a recent EU trip was VERY surprised to see the prices on offer at the various Dainese stores through France and Germany. (Gloves, Protection, but especially Jackets)
If I didn't have a number of jackets already I would have stocked up.