So I have embarked on upgrading the suspension on my S2R 800.
I have been reading the forums a lot to get up to speed, and thought I might
recap on what I have found, and maybe people can clarify, pitch in etc.
(A lot of this is from bergdoerfer, who sold me many of the parts)
Forks:
So the standard forks on the S2R 1k on "ok" or "acceptible", but the S2R 800 are just plain bottom of the line.
Options
1. New springs and fluid to adjust for weight.
2. Send OEM forks to get fitted for cartridges (~$1000)
http://www.gpsuspension.com/ (http://www.gpsuspension.com/)
Word is Ohlins does this directly as well.
Comments? Pros? Cons?
3. Transplant S2R 1k forks.
Nicer, slightly more adjustable, but rare.
Probably not worth it.
4. Transplant '05 S4R forks with linear springs and good valving.
Much nicer. Rather rare.
5. Transplant Showa forks from a Ducati SBK bike
Namely: 748, 916, 996, 998, ST2, ST3, ST4 (more?)
A little tall, fully adjustable, good valving and fairly common on ebay right now.
So the salient details for SBK swap seem to be:
1. Monster forks are 50mm wide at the top and 54mm at the bottom but SBK forks are 53mm top/bottom.
Bore out the stock top triple, and shim the bottom triple to make it fit.
(or buy a fancy aftermarket triple(s))
2. SBK forks are longer, so be prepared to add risers to your handlebars, or go for clipons,
to keep the necessary geometry
3. The Caliper mounts on S2R have 65mm between bolts.
Many/Most//All (?) SBK forks have 65mm spacing so existing calipers will work.
4. Steering head bearings might be a good idea.
5. Springs might need to be replaced based on your weight?
(resources to figure that out?)
6. Might be a good idea to rebuild (have rebuilt) your forks with new fluid / seals
(is this true?)
Front Brakes:
Front brakes are not terrible, but could be nicer.
Again, basically anything from the 748, 916, 996, 998, etc
- Brembo four piston gold calipers from an SBK are a good idea.
Good idea to stick with 65mm bolt spacing like original.
- New rotors
320mm x 5mm, and 10mm offset with 6-bolt pattern,
- New brake lines to make it all work.
http://spieglerusa.com/ (http://spieglerusa.com/)
http://www.galferusa.com (http://www.galferusa.com)
Anyone know the lengths already?
What banjo configurations?
Shock
Rear Shock is also rather crap.
Options (so far):
- Ebay an Ohlins Shock from 748 916 996 998.
These have a resevoir on the side and may require "making room" under your bike.
- Traxxion Dynamics Replacement ($700 - $1500)
- worksperformance.com/html/street.html
- Ohlins (Something that will just drop in?)
- Am I missing anything?
don't bother with the s2r1k forks unless you are going to gut them and rebuild. they just aren't that adjustable..
Truth be told, once you set your suspension you hardly ever adjust it.
Quote from: He Man on July 26, 2011, 05:50:02 PM
Truth be told, once you set your suspension you hardly ever adjust it.
yup, and if you can't adjust your "adjustable" suspension for your own needs, then its not really very adjustable
I agree with the above statements regarding adjustability. However, when I upgraded my S2R 800 from stock to Ohlins front and rear, it was nice to be able to adjust and actually feel the adjustments in the handling of the bike. I went with the 30mm cartridge up front and a TTX in the rear. If you're interested, I'll put you in touch with the gentleman who made it happen. You're on the right track though. In my opinion, you're better off putting a cartridge kit in your existing Marzocchis than buying other used forks that you will have to rebuild anyways.
There are more options - bitubo for cartridges and rear shock, penske for rear shock etc. I'd strongly advice an oil change and probably a re-build on any used ebay stuff (forks, shock, etc.).
I just completed a SBK swap on my 695 (we have the same crap forks) this week.
I went with used Showas off of a 748 purported to only have 10k miles (less than half of my stockers) on them.
- kept stock brakes
- went with a Speedymoto conversion triple from MotoWheels. MW was awesome, Speedymoto took forever. Took 7 weeks total to get my triple in
- switched to clip-ons, LSL mounted over the triple. Absolutely love them. Built like a brick shit house.
- used strips of beer can aluminum to shim, two on each bottom triple hole. Works great, excellent excuse to drink two beers. Soda cans work too.. if yer a pussy lol
- drilled out stock axle to make holes for adjusting rebound, will require a quality bit and cutting oil, that muther is hard
It took maybe 4 hours of actual work, probably 7 hours including all bullshitting, rebuilding once you realize you forgot something or routed a cable wrong, or forgot to tighten something.
The difference is STAGGERING. The front end is now extremely well behaved over rough pavement as opposed to the pogo stick stocker. I didn't have any trouble setting sag so I'm thinking the stock spring is good for my 6'1" 210 lbs frame. I have a trip coming up so I'll be sure to report back once I've really put it through its paces.
Pictars.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/theartfuldubber/IMG_20110723_104040.jpg)
Don't get discouraged once you get the front end off, it looks far worse than it is.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/theartfuldubber/BeforeAfter.jpg)
Are most replacing the head bearings when doing the fork upgrades? If so, why?
Quote from: gr1976 on July 27, 2011, 11:56:08 AM
Are most replacing the head bearings when doing the fork upgrades? If so, why?
No other reason than that you are in there. I didn't, probably should have but was pressed for time.
Quote from: hackers2r on July 27, 2011, 05:24:45 AMIn my opinion, you're better off putting a cartridge kit in your existing Marzocchis than buying other used forks that you will have to rebuild anyways.
That is, unless you're upgrading to SBK forks with TiN sliders. The Ohlins and GP Suspension retrofits are convenient and nice, but
much more expensive than Superbike forks and you're stuck with regular chrome sliders which aren't as good looking and will pit more easily than TiN sliders.
Buy some TiN SBK Showas and have them resprung, fitted with engineered valves & shim stacks, and rebuilt with fresh oil and you would have superior forks and still not even come close to the $2k Ohlins charges to do the stock retrofit.
I'll admit the stock retrofits are much less hassle though.
im not sure about that GP will do the marzz forks for under $1300, thats a hard price to beat once you start factoring the cost and time of everything invovled in an SBK retrofit. At that price point the GP kit is going to be better than stock SBK stuff.
Although the TiN forks are great to have, my stock chrome fork legs are still not pitted after 30,000miles in NYC. I clean my fork sliders and my shock slider more than i clean my chain. :P
To make a fair cost comparison:
748 forks off of Fleabay (chrome sliders) - $210 shipped
Speedymoto conversion top triple - $290 shipped
LSL clip-ons: $180 (sourced locally): $180
Not required but should be factored in:
Traxxion preload adjusters: $40
Grips: $15
I got a quote locally for a fork rebuild of $170 and milling the stock triple for $45.
So -
Barebones swap: Forks, mill stock triple, handlebar risers ($40) = $295
Middle of the road swap: Forks, mill top triple, cheap clip-ons ($140) = $395
The full monty (my actual cost): $735
When I put SBK forks on my 06 800 S2R based on my measurements of extended lengths they did fit under my stock bars. I have since backed off the preload 4 or 5 rings IIRC and now they do touch the bottom of the bars which is not an issue. The free sag of the stock forks was probably a little greater due to softer springs but again no real issue. I have to run a fair ammount of gravel roads on my commute to work so the stiffer spring are appreciated. For less than $300 total the change in performance was huge.
Hey, this is what I did to my 695.
I used forks from a 998 (shiny TiN sliders). I went for (woodcraft) clipons, and swapped to goldline 4 pot calipers with 320mm rotors at the same time.
You're quite right about the work needed - I bored my top triple and shimmed the lower, and drilled holes in the axle. I replaced the stock 998 springs with 0.85kg Ohlins ones, which made setting the sag a doddle.
All the stuff at the bottom just bolted up easy.
what did you 695ers do for the rear?
Quote from: take risks on August 01, 2011, 04:21:39 PM
what did you 695ers do for the rear?
I replaced mine with a Showa from a 999, with Ohlins spring to match my weight. Getting it to fit required relocation of the vertical cylinder coil and removal of the crankcase ventilation canister.
See http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41414.msg740226#msg740226 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41414.msg740226#msg740226)
gotcha. thanks! [beer]