I've heard of some riders of models with under seat exhausts that put out extreme heat .So much so that they have wrapped their exhaust pipes to cut down the heat . My 1098R puts out so much heat that riding on a cool day (68 degrees) with Dainese Firefly leathers , my inner thighs were feeling like they were on a slow burn heading for an all out scorching. I'd be interested to know if you have wrapped your exhaust pipes and how effective you found it to be and who's wrap did you use . One person I talked to suggested I "go faster" but on the street that isn't an option and I don't think it will work anyway. Thanks.
i have about 6" wrapped of one tube where my heel hits, works ok but still melts my running shoes when i rarely wear them while taking short rides. my sidis are fine resting right on it though.
i think ceramic coat would look much better on a 1098r
Quote from: aaronb on June 19, 2008, 09:37:35 PM
i have about 6" wrapped of one tube where my heel hits, works ok but still melts my running shoes when i rarely wear them while taking short rides. my sidis are fine resting right on it though.
i think ceramic coat would look much better on a 1098r
I have a decent size CF heat shield for my boot but it's all the heat from the pipes radiating out and up. Like there is an air pocket in there where the air doesn't move around.
sperbikes are brutal with the heat they put out (heat =hp) and there are not a lot of great options out there. Aftermarket cans do run cooler but most of the heat comes off the pipe on the right side (makes an under engine exhaust sound good).
header wrap is probably some type of asbestos/fiberglass wrap, it would make it cooler but the stuff wears and frays over time with wear.
I think you need nomex pants. [thumbsup]
I use header wrap quite a bit. Soak it, then stretch TIGHT while wrapping, and finish off by securing with saftey wire.
Quote from: Norm on June 20, 2008, 07:15:05 AM
I use header wrap quite a bit. Soak it, then stretch TIGHT while wrapping, and finish off by securing with saftey wire.
So you wrap your entire exhaust and you soak it w/ what ? When you speak of safety wire is that wire that comes w/ the wrap ?
i posted this on SBN, CDC:
http://www.coastalducaticlub.org/forum/index.php?topic=1675.0
Quotei just thought i would add to this section, i wrote this to help another rider on SBN. so here, i hope it helps someone.
To make the wrap look good you need to take your time installing it. Buy 2 inch tape or it will take forever to install!
Soak the tape in water and install it while it is wet. This will make it very compliant and it will tighten even more when it dries.
Start about 1 inch below the header flange at the back of the pipe. Wrap upwards to the flange, try to get there in 1/2 revolution. Go all the way around so you are over lapping your first loop (this must be tight to hold loose end firmly) and then work downwards. Be sure to keep the tape tight at all times. If using 2 inch tape try to overlap exactly 1 inch, That will make the tape a consistent thickness. Be creative around any fittings or crossover tubes. Be careful not to over lap the tape multiple times or bunch it up anywhere, this can cause hot spots on the pipe.
When it is time to stop you can either use a specific clamp sold by most places that sell header wrap or I prefer a few loops of stainless safety wire.
If you choose to use black put a drop cloth under the bike because the water that runs out as you stretch the tape will stain concrete. (ask me how i know [roll])
Also you need a lot of tape. here is the equation - per pipe (just a rough estimate, when putting it will stretch slightly)
Lt = (D x pi x Lp)/(6 x W)
Lp = length of pipe (inch), D = diameter of pipe (in), W = width of tape (in), Lt = length of tape (Ft)
Using this, 20" of 1.5" pipe would take just under 8 feet of 2" tape.
I have included a pic of a short section I did on my duc. after getting wet a few times it will fade from black to grey. As you can see I still melted a bit of my shoe onto it, but my Sidis don't melt, just another reason to always wear all of my gear. Smiley
(http://www.coastalducaticlub.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1675.0;attach=1531;image)
but i still think you will be more happy if you have the pipe professionally ceramic coated
[beer]
I've been told the cat converter is right under the seat, which generates a lot of the heat. Termi slip-ons might help with the heat.
This could be all bullshit. I'm still learning myself.
you might look into ceramic coating.
i have heard it does a better job at dispersing the heat and not making "hot spots"
just something for ya to look in to
Well get this............today I road the 1098 R 96 miles in the hills of South Eastern, Ohio and didn't have a heat problem because I came up w/ a cheap, easy fix. You know those foam back protector pads that are in some riding jackets , they are keyhole shaped. Well I got this idea that if I put one on the inside of my thigh, inside my leather pants that it might block the heat enough to make it fairly bearable. Well I had a couple from some jackets that I don't use and I stuffed them down around my inner thighs and by golly it worked. It made enough of a barrier that riding was pleasant.
Hey ,cheap ,easy fix for the time being ...........I'll have to see if it continues to work as time goes on.
Ceramic coating and pipe wrap serve two different (albeit related) purposes.
Ceramic coating distributes heat preventing hotspots, but it doesn't prevent the pipes from being hot.
Pipe wrap does not distribute heat, so you can still can get hotspots, but they are insulated under the wrap.
Wrap is mainly for keeping engine compartments cool(er) think of race car. Likewise for protecting a rider on a bike.
I have ceramic coating on my pipes, end to end (even disassembled the cans and had the insides done). My boots still melt on the rear header (S2R)
Sounds like you found a good cheap option, but FWIW based on my experience with wrap I would bet that would not have made as much difference. I fully wrapped my pipes, for a fun project, and partly for looks, and I was surprised that even after that it still got hot enought to melt the heel of my boot.
If you do try it, though, the soaking in water part does help and is correct. Soak, wrap tight, about a 1/4 inch overlap on each layer, let dry, and ideally use the recommended spray paint high temp silicon paint. That helps keep it from wearing out, clean, etc. but can take a lot of work on a full system, to mask off the rest of the bike in plastic or paper. Fun, but time consuming.
I don't know if the kits supply safety wire or not. It's the same stuff you'd use if you were prepping a race bike & is pretty cheap. A pair of safety wire pliers aren't manditory, but makes life a little easier.
If anyone has any photos of their Monster with heat wrapping done on it, please post a photo. Really thinking of doing this, but I just can't visualize what the finished product would look like. Thanks in advance!
PM me if you have any questions on how I did mine.
(http://www.barnold.com/img/ducati/il-mostro-scuro.jpg)
Very nice, it looks fantastic. Wrapping is going to be my little project this week. I've wrapped my Honda and a buddys CB500, so I'm familiar with the process. Thanks for the quick pic.
Does anyone know what the length and diameter of a 620s piping is? Just need to know how much wrap I'm going to need to purchase.
i know that pipe wrapping serves a legitimate purpose, and is used in racing situations for good reason, etc, etc.
but damn.. no matter what reasoning you use, it alwasy looks like someone didnt' design the bike right and this was a "jerry rig" type of solution.
looks like someone is using a big bandage to keep the bike together. like an afterthought of sorts.
Be prepared for the stink and smoke that has to burn off. It isn't a pleasant smell.
Quote from: DarkDucati on January 11, 2009, 09:38:53 AM
PM me if you have any questions on how I did mine.
(http://www.barnold.com/img/ducati/il-mostro-scuro.jpg)
Get out of here with that picture!!! Every time I see that I miss my zards.
Quote from: Bellagio on January 11, 2009, 06:13:44 PM
Does anyone know what the length and diameter of a 620s piping is? Just need to know how much wrap I'm going to need to purchase.
I wraped my 620 after the high pipes ate a pair of sidi's. The kit is enough to wrap a 4 cylinder bike so the twin has plenty of left over. I think it calle thermo wrap or cool wrap either way motowheels has it. [bacon]
Well, took me over three hours to get everything ripped apart (way easier on my Honda) and wrap the pipes. I got a 50' x 1" roll. Def wasn't enough. I was able to wrap both pipes up until the 4 way intersection and I ran out. Wondering if I should just leave it as is and paint the headers with black high heat or go out and buy some more. I've got some pics I need to upload off my phone and we can take a vote. I'm just exhausted (pun not intended... Okay, maybe a bit) after pulling everything apart. :-\
i've used 30' thermo wrap and 1 can of hi temp silicone coat.Soak it with water to make it easyr and tight.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/w7ck7d/my%20696/IMG_0139.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/w7ck7d/my%20696/IMG_0136.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/w7ck7d/my%20696/IMG_0142.jpg)
Here's the "finished" results. Think I'm going to wrap the header pipe because it just looks unfinished. It's going to have to be on a warmer day because I froze my nuts and bolt off these past two days in my uninsulated garage.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2h6sh84.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/25stzdv.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2q0odud.jpg)
One word of caution, if you have titanium pipes, don't wrap and ride in the rain. You'll end up with wrapping only, except for a nice yellow powder coating the inside of the wrap. Very expensive yellow powder.
Quote from: fulltilt on January 21, 2009, 07:03:21 AM
One word of caution, if you have titanium pipes, don't wrap and ride in the rain. You'll end up with wrapping only, except for a nice yellow powder coating the inside of the wrap. Very expensive yellow powder.
:o Never heard of that. If I had Ti pipes they would be seen. [thumbsup]
Quote from: fulltilt on January 21, 2009, 07:03:21 AM
One word of caution, if you have titanium pipes, don't wrap and ride in the rain. You'll end up with wrapping only, except for a nice yellow powder coating the inside of the wrap. Very expensive yellow powder.
that's interesting, why is that?
So here's a question in general: I've heard that cars use the wrap to keep under hood temps down and the exhaust gasses hotter so they travel through the long exhaust pipe easier, being less dense. Since bikes have relatively short exhaust pipes and there's no hood to hold the heat in and steal performance, is there a performance based reason for wrapping bike pipes? Obviously what's being discussed here is legitimate, superbikes roast riders at low speeds, but is it going to make any performance gains for the bike?
Thanks,
Scott
Quote from: scott_araujo on January 21, 2009, 05:51:35 PM
So here's a question in general: I've heard that cars use the wrap to keep under hood temps down and the exhaust gasses hotter so they travel through the long exhaust pipe easier, being less dense. Since bikes have relatively short exhaust pipes and there's no hood to hold the heat in and steal performance, is there a performance based reason for wrapping bike pipes? Obviously what's being discussed here is legitimate, superbikes roast riders at low speeds, but is it going to make any performance gains for the bike?
Thanks,
Scott
Good question...cant wait for the answer..
And just for the record, I know sometime it looks good. No problem with a mod just for looks, just wondering if a bike gets anything else out of it.
Thanks again,
Scott
QuoteI've heard that cars use the wrap to keep under hood temps down and the exhaust gasses hotter so they travel through the long exhaust pipe easier, being less dense.
Scott, I'm not sure about the hotter gasses traveling through the exhaust pipe easier, being less dense. With steam pipelines at a power plant it's the opposite, the more dense the steam is, the lower the pressure losses in the piping. If the density becomes less, it results in higher a velocity which in turn results in higher friction losses. I suspect that a gas like exhaust gas is similar and if we could somehow cool the exhaust way down in the pipe, the backpressure on the engine would drop.
I think another advantage to wrapping exhaust pipes in cars is to keep more energy available for the turbocharger, if there is one. About performance advantage on a Duc, I honestly don't know, but I like Atomic410's reason that it saved his boots.
There is no performance advantage on a Ducati to speak of.
The MAIN hypothetical advantage would be to spread the heat of the exhaust so the entire pipe sheds heat more evenly, however, you will still get hotspots under the wrap and it will prevent wind from cooling them down.
Ceramic coating is the best for spreading and shedding heat, but you do not get any rider protection with ceramic. The wrap gives much better rider protection.
Another benefit to wrapping the pipes is less heat radiates from the pipes to the rider. As far as exhaust flow and temperature goes, it is more a convection issue than a density issue. On our bikes any difference would be something between negligible and none. Even with a car the biggest gain would be from the reduction of underhood ambient temperature, the benefit being a cooler mixture entering the intake. Cool dense mixture means more power.
Quote from: howie on January 22, 2009, 09:00:56 AM
Cool dense mixture means more power.
yep, i have a mister on the intake on my Volvo. IPD sells them.
i was looking into doing the same thing for the ducati, but it was a lot of complication for little hypothetical performance gain
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 22, 2009, 09:20:30 AM
yep, i have a mister on the intake on my Volvo. IPD sells them.
i was looking into doing the same thing for the ducati, but it was a lot of complication for little hypothetical performance gain
What kind of Volvo do you have? I've got a PHII S40 with the Eurosport Tuning intake and heat shield. Doing the exhaust wrapping on the Duc just to make everything darker and more sinister. No performance gain is needed for me, just like the way it looks.
Quote from: Bellagio on January 22, 2009, 12:53:07 PM
What kind of Volvo do you have? I've got a PHII S40 with the Eurosport Tuning intake and heat shield. Doing the exhaust wrapping on the Duc just to make everything darker and more sinister. No performance gain is needed for me, just like the way it looks.
an early '98 S70 T5 with a bunch of IPD upgrades... programmable ECU, turbo, bigger intercooler, and the water mist injector.
i was really surprised at the difference with the aquamist. i had the new ecu and turbo running and gas mileage went down a bit, but after the mist injector, mpg went up about 5-10% and it felt noticeable different, esp accelerating in high gear -- a lot more available top end power.
and i do have my engine compartment pipes wrapped, mainly the turbo feeds as they get pretty damn hot.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v720/ctkurt/?albumview=grid&fullsize=IMG00004.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v720/ctkurt/?albumview=grid&fullsize=IMG00004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/ctkurt/IMG00004.jpg)
CTKurt, That is a good looking bike and the pipe wrap really fits with it. What a monster should look like.
CT- I'm a fan of how it loos with the header just silicone coated. I think I just need to spray mine up instead of buying more wrap. It looks very finished.
Ok, I'm gonna pipe in here folks. (pardon the pun!) While I am a newbie to this forum, I have drag raced Harleys for over 10 years and have a National Championship to show for it. Wrapping your pipes is the WORST thing you can do to a street motorcycle's exhaust system. While it has a purpose for drag bikes, they are raced on a prepped track and never in the rain. Water and minerals from the street will eventually work their way through the wrap and eat your pipe away. Unless you plan on replacing your system every 2 years, you are MUCH better off coating them with a ceramic coating like those offered by Jet Hot or HPC. Heat retention can improve exhaust velocity, but a ceramic coating is much more efficient at it, and it reduces the pipes skin temp at the same time, reducing thermal fatigue. A wrapped pipe will disintegrate for a number of reasons, including thermal fatigue and corrosion, and since it is wrapped, you can't see it happening. Ride on the street with wrapped pipes, and one day you'll have pieces falling off of your bike like limbs off the Black Knight in The Holy Grail!
GREAT Information.
Quote from: MadDaddy on January 23, 2009, 12:33:46 AM
Ride on the street with wrapped pipes, and one day you'll have pieces falling off of your bike like limbs off the Black Knight in The Holy Grail!
..so it will be just like having a vintage Ducati!
Thanks for the input Dad. It took me hella long to get the pipes wrapped, so I'm going to ride around for at least one season with it. After this year I'll end up cutting it off, def don't want to have to replace the pipes.
Quote from: MadDaddy on January 23, 2009, 12:33:46 AM
Ok, I'm gonna pipe in here folks. .... A wrapped pipe will disintegrate for a number of reasons, including thermal fatigue and corrosion, and since it is wrapped, you can't see it happening. Ride on the street with wrapped pipes, and one day you'll have pieces falling off of your bike like limbs off the Black Knight in The Holy Grail!
Thats like a pretty good definitive answer, which I like to hear.
If one were set on wrapping their pipes, could they be ceramic coated or some other corrosion resistant coating first? Then wrapped, and be assured that there pipes will hold together.
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on January 23, 2009, 08:50:49 AM
Thats like a pretty good definitive answer, which I like to hear.
If one were set on wrapping their pipes, could they be ceramic coated or some other corrosion resistant coating first? Then wrapped, and be assured that there pipes will hold together.
It would probably help some, but even the ceramic coating will corrode off eventually. It just gives you a bigger range of "error" so to speak. Quality of coatings vary too. I have seen the under-pipe rust thru on some bikes, but that was the part of the pipe directly exposed to the road and it was probably smacked up wit ha lot of gravel.
Good info...but i never ride my bike in rainy season ..so i guess it will take a while for my pipe to fall apart...
Quote from: w7ck7d on January 23, 2009, 11:07:10 PM
Good info...but i never ride my bike in rainy season ..so i guess it will take a while for my pipe to fall apart...
got any humidity where you live? the pipe wrap is like a giant wick that sucks in moisture when the hot pipe is cooling off after you ride, esp if the air is cool.
I park my bike in the basement all the time.And i think less humidity...but i could be wrong..
Quote from: Raux on January 23, 2009, 04:20:36 AM
GREAT Information.
+1. And the pun was pretty good too.
Termis definitely help cut down the heat.