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Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 03:38:59 AM

Title: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 03:38:59 AM
So we finished the picket fence on the house on Thursday....sort of

House is on a slope....so we built the fence parallel rather than stepped

the front gate will be a split type with the uphill side using a retractible anchor rod into the concrete in the middle of the walk

I want to put a pair of Acorn finials on the front gate posts but I am not sure how to cut the posts to cap them....

I am not going to leave them high as in the (IZ School of Imagery graduate) picture but an inch or 3 above the picket top

do I keep them level with each other?

or continue with a proportionate slope..... cut to the same lengths...... then cap them...??????

or do I skip the finials and keep it simple

yeah I know...I have huge problems in life these days

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNov2011006.jpg)
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: ungeheuer on November 05, 2011, 03:47:25 AM
If the gate(s) follow the incline in the manner of the rest of the fence, then IMO the posts need to follow the slope too. 

On the other hand if you sought to run the top of the gates on the horizontal, you could then have both post tops level with each other.

But I'd go with the slope  [thumbsup].
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 04:21:15 AM
Kind of what I was thinking since the gate(s) will follow the slope.

The semi-secured uphill gate will pose a problem as it's swing will head uphill into the slope

the lower half will be fine as it will swing into the fall-away

I was thinking I may build a 2x4 box frame for that uphill gate with hinges on the inside of the corners rather than nails/screws and use a sprung retracting caster wheel underneath....

but then the pickets on the face would need to be able to shift in place....maybe if I single nail/screw the top and bottom of the gate pickets and leave some racking slack....

the uphill gate would only be used/opened for moving large crap in and out...or I could use lift off hinges for those infrequent instances
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: ducpainter on November 05, 2011, 04:30:36 AM
I'd build the gate level to eliminate all the issues of a gate trying to swing uphill.
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: ungeheuer on November 05, 2011, 04:35:47 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on November 05, 2011, 04:30:36 AM
I'd build the gate level to eliminate all the issues of a gate trying to swing uphill.
But then HUGE rats could get in under the gap between the level bottom of the gate and the slope of the land.  On the other hand maybe they'd leave by this convenient exit  :-\
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: ungeheuer on November 05, 2011, 04:41:02 AM
Quote from: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 04:21:15 AMthe uphill gate would only be used/opened for moving large crap in and out...or I could use lift off hinges for those infrequent instances
Is the incline too great that you couldnt just use one of those hinges that raises the gate (I'm guessing they have a name, but I dunno what it is) as its opened.  The more its opened the more it rises....
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 05:15:40 AM
Quote from: ungeheuer on November 05, 2011, 04:41:02 AM
Is the incline too great that you couldnt just use one of those hinges that raises the gate (I'm guessing they have a name, but I dunno what it is) as its opened.  The more its opened the more it rises....


[clap] [clap] [clap]  genius!!!   I begin my web search for this marvel of simplicity!!
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: ducpainter on November 05, 2011, 05:23:23 AM
There's this...

http://www.gatedepot.com/category/swing-gate-hardware-uphill-hinges/ (http://www.gatedepot.com/category/swing-gate-hardware-uphill-hinges/)

kinda pricey
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 05:36:59 AM
Yikes!!

Maybe I can work the poor man's version with a lift-off hinge and a caster wheel under the gate...

as long as there are a few inches of lift on the hinge pin before the joint separates...
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: lethe on November 05, 2011, 05:56:38 AM
make a fun creatively crooked gate  [cheeky]
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: Speedbag on November 05, 2011, 06:05:47 AM
Quote from: lethe on November 05, 2011, 05:56:38 AM
make a fun creatively crooked gate  [cheeky]

It'll probably end up this way anyway after a few years of age, weather, and gravity.
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: rgramjet on November 05, 2011, 07:03:46 AM
Quote from: RAT900 on November 05, 2011, 04:21:15 AM
Kind of what I was thinking since the gate(s) will follow the slope.

The semi-secured uphill gate will pose a problem as it's swing will head uphill into the slope

the lower half will be fine as it will swing into the fall-away

I was thinking I may build a 2x4 box frame for that uphill gate with hinges on the inside of the corners rather than nails/screws and use a sprung retracting caster wheel underneath....

but then the pickets on the face would need to be able to shift in place....maybe if I single nail/screw the top and bottom of the gate pickets and leave some racking slack....

the uphill gate would only be used/opened for moving large crap in and out...or I could use lift off hinges for those infrequent instances

Making a double gate, on an incline, that will be used daily, is asking a lot of the floating latch mechanism. 

Make a single width gate with concrete anchored posts on each side. 

For large item access, attach one of the long fence sections with heavy duty (removable) screws.  Or attach all of them with screws.  Pick an access any access.....

Good luck!
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: Blackout on November 05, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
No opinion really. But tell me about that house. I dig old Craftsmans.
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 06, 2011, 01:16:42 AM
Quote from: Blackout on November 05, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
No opinion really. But tell me about that house. I dig old Craftsmans.

Funny you should ask...I just did a ton of research on its history last weekend............the place was a near tumble-down when we bought it. Decades of neglect and use as a rental unit......the deed history from the point where the house was actually built is down below...the property deeds go back well into the 1800's.  

The house is nearly all red oak construction beams/joists, rafters and trim work/floors and wainscotting.

It has a massive stone and mortar fireplace using the same stone as the foundation (painted an awful beige, future project to get that stripped  [roll] )

and all interior trim wood is quarter sawn.

The floors are true/actual 2 inch T&G.... we just last week spliced in a 5x5 section where a fire occurred sometime in the way past (it was repaired using cut nails, so we know it was an old fix) and it was originally repaired with 2 1/4 inch oak planks in a large obvious square. We redid the fix properly with quartersawn oak plank that we had to router down from 2 1/4 to true 2 inch

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNov2011001.jpg)

All the eaves were sagging since the hollow box construction knee-braces had rotted and failed, facia boards on the eaves had rotted, and the ends of the eaves had wet-rot going in about 2 inches so we cut the eaves back 3 inches from gutter line to roof beam and installed new facia boards...which because of the continuous lengths we had to get the new ones milled at a yard in Eastern Tennessee, We built and toggle-bolt mounted all new knee-braces using solid pressure-treat wood beams. We did that after we tore off the old roofing shingles and found there was no underlayment just shingles.

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNC095.jpg)

The ancient white oak in the front corner grew into the eaves over the past 85 years and also heaved the porch foundation. When we replaced the porch deck we also tapered the sill board to re-true both the roof line and the deck slope and dropped the joists back down rather than kill the tree or re-do the stone porch foundation (which is sound albeit a little higher than it once was at the tree end) We boxed around the pressure treated beams that extend to the actual stone foundation top after we re-decked the porch

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNC057.jpg)

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNC054.jpg)

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNC109.jpg)

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleNC038.jpg)

We then went with old-style/period correct half-round gutters with individual rafter tail cradle hangers. We opted for galvanized as we did not believe the house would have employed copper, someday I may upgrade but the old timers from the gutter company told me that the house date and style and construction leaned  more towards galvanized than copper

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/AshevilleGutters001.jpg)

I am assembling a house history book including deed history, the photos and history of the repairs/restoration/rehab work we have done on the place.  Folks drive by all the time to see how it is progressing, some give me the thumbs-up, some take pictures, some just stare at the place, some ask questions about the place

as it is the grand old dame of the neighborhood sitting on the corner at the top of the hill....the giant old oak tree shading it like a parasol...........I wave and smile and think to myself...you have no make the beast with two backsing clue what has gone into taking this place from a crack house rental unit to what it once was.

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/visigoth9/ErikaGrad080709023.jpg)


Not to mention the rat wars that we are apparently winning....the rats have evidently retreated to north of the 32nd parallel but they are still out there hating me

Anyway here's the deed history and a rough draft of the story of the house owners/use


03/19/1926 WN & Bess Donohue: Deed to W. J. Henry Jr. Book 337 Page 262  According to the records the house was built in 1927 indicating that WJ Henry Jr. finally developed the property. W J Henry lived and died in NY State in 1975 in the greater Albany area.

04/01/1926 WJ Henry: Deed to mother Katherine A. Henry Book 342 Page 341

09/03/1937 Katherine A. Henry (widow): Deed to WJ Henry Jr. (unmarried) Book 500 Page 293

02/11/1977 Edward Henry: Deed to Dr. Albert Kodack Book 1160 Page 88 (WJ Henry Jr. died unmarried and intestate 8/8/1975 in NY. Next of Kin were E. Henry and Mary Henry Golan (brother and sister to WJ) Also Donald J Phillips nephew from WJ's deceased sister Lillian.

02/15/2001 Dr. Albert Kodack estate: Deed to Judy Carver Book 2419 Page 727 (Albert Kodack died in 1999)

11/02/2001 Judy Carver & Stuart N. Lewis: Deed to Leila Bakkum Book 2625 Page 268



Albert Kodack was DOCTOR Albert Kodack M.D. General Practitioner

and member of Asheville's Jewish Community/Synagogue, former president of the Federation of Jewish Charities

see the 1977 and 2001 Deed Transactions in the list

Kodack and Judy Carver managed the house/paid its taxes on behalf of absentee owner WJ Henry of NY for decades beginning in the 1940's.

When WJ Henry Jr. died in NY in 1975 Dr. Kodack purchased the house from Henry's Estate via WJ Henry's next of kin E. Henry in 1977 estate settlements

and doubtless Kodack was the renter and used it for his medicine practice for quite some time before..... going back to the 1940-60 time frame and ultimately became the owner in 1977 upon Henry's death

hence the old medical/army cots and hospital/institutional bed frame in the basement and the old towel dispensers left under the yellow room in the crawl space........ probably stuff garnered from whatever local hospital (Mission) that he attended patients at

It would also explain the add-ons to the back of the house that gave me the sense of a Waiting Room and private practice

The entrance set-up (now walled-off door in the little back bedroom) and the enlarged Glass Paned/Yellow Room all the interior door removals in the dining room and back halls....Kodack would have done this to get more floor space and facilitate movement among the rooms.

Dr. Kodack was born in 1915 and died in 1999 and his estate was settled in 2001 with house going to Leila Bakkum for 5 years.........and then to us.

Also of note is that one of WJ Henry's sisters was married to a "Meyer Golan"....see above 1977 Henry Estate settlement next of kin I listed.

Maybe they all were part of the greater Jewish community...

though Henry does not strike me as a "Jewish Sounding" name it could have been an Anglicizing of an original Jewish name...

a practice that was not unheard of in those days

and one that would be seriously considered in the days of the old South or probably anywhere in America back in those days depending on the area.

I plan to visit the local Synagogues and speak with the Rabbi's about Dr. Kodack and the Henry's to see if I can ferret out more information about Kodack's life and if Katherine Henry was a member of the congregation

The original occupant of the (then new) 1927 house "Katherine A. Henry" was WJ Henry's mother.

Since WJ Henry's mother gave him back the property in 1937, she was probably sick or aging and deeded it back to him before death.....the deed between her and son WJ Henry listed him as unmarried and Katherine as a Widow.

maybe Dr. Kodack was Katherine A. Henry's attending physician

After Katherine A. Henry's death perhaps Dr. Kodack offered to rent the place, care for it and run his practice/clinic out of it for the black community then prevalent here in East Asheville

I don't get the sense that Dr. Kodack lived here although that might be the case...but the kitchen and other tangible/intangible aspects of the house give me a sense that he did not............. unless he was a single unmarried man

Dr. Kodack probably retired at some point in (let's guess here)....the late 1980's...by 1985 he would have been 70...

he then probably turned the house into a rental property for income (another reason I do not think he lived here is that he would have had to move to do that and the SSDI had him dead in Asheville so he didn't shlep to Fla.)....

so by 1985/1990 he was renting it out I would say....and given the crack epidemic at that time it would make sense that this house suffered some bad tenants for 15-20 years

Despite all the house has seen and endured, it has an enormous positive feel to it....perhaps Dr. Kodack's philanthropic energy still resonates in its wood,

certainly he had to waive payment more than once in that neighborhood back in the old Jim Crow South days....or take a chicken as payment or turn down an offered pig or two

and in a world of choices he certainly had other more economically attractive options at hand with regard to opening a practice in an area of town with a wealthier constituency

I kind of grin at the irony when I think that a NY-er built and owned the place...

and that my daughter after living there for 1 year suddenly decided to go to Nursing School, graduating and is now working with Asheville's poor women and at the County prison with inmates....

maybe some part of Dr. Albert Kodack is still there, living in the wood.......keeping some sort of practice going  ;)
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: Mother on November 06, 2011, 01:59:34 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on November 05, 2011, 05:23:23 AM
There's this...

http://www.gatedepot.com/category/swing-gate-hardware-uphill-hinges/ (http://www.gatedepot.com/category/swing-gate-hardware-uphill-hinges/)

kinda pricey


kinda?

there isn't anything there worth 195 bucks

it kills me that they actually sell that
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: MendoDave on November 06, 2011, 04:13:27 PM
Quote from: ungeheuer on November 05, 2011, 04:35:47 AM
On the other hand maybe they'd leave by this convenient exit  :-\

Rats Never leave conveniently.
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: Blackout on November 09, 2011, 07:28:43 PM
Your house looks cool as hell.  [thumbsup] It irritates me to no end what some people do to old houses. I owned a 1915 Craftsman in Sacramento that over the years had its original woodwork painted over. Hours and hours of labor it took to strip it all off down to the orignal.
I've seen too many beautiful old Craftsman porches enclosed. My current house is a 1926 brick Craftsman in North Carolina. Someone had installed these hideous aluminum awnings all over the wrap around porch. They completely ruined the natural lines of the house. I ripped 'em right off.
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 09, 2011, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: Blackout on November 09, 2011, 07:28:43 PM
Your house looks cool as hell.  [thumbsup] It irritates me to no end what some people do to old houses. I owned a 1915 Craftsman in Sacramento that over the years had its original woodwork painted over. Hours and hours of labor it took to strip it all off down to the orignal.
I've seen too many beautiful old Craftsman porches enclosed. My current house is a 1926 brick Craftsman in North Carolina. Someone had installed these hideous aluminum awnings all over the wrap around porch. They completely ruined the natural lines of the house. I ripped 'em right off.

Most of my interior woodwork survived oddly enough....beat up but except for the kitchen it was spared the paint brush...

guess crack and smack heads weren't going to waste good dope money and hustle energy on paint,,,,and painting

That was one of the reasons I picked the place up....it needed to be restored rather than undone (and then restored) as in your case(s)

My plaster walls are a disaster however I found an old fellow who will glue the walls, put up brown mud and then a finish coat of plaster....50 bucks an hour....

but good plaster guys have to move fast as hell and get it right the first time....if you have ever seen them work it is impressive...

he has done extensive work in a lot of the old public buildings, churches and mansions in A-ville and surrounding area, he brought his photo book with him

Once the walls are done and painted I need to refinish the floors....they have been hit at least twice before so I don't have any original finish to salvage

The original exterior paint scheme was chocolate brown and white, the shingled mudroom in the back is still the original colors....I will leave that as-is for some future owner's reference if they want to go to "as-built"

someone along the line painted it gray-blue and white which I decided to stay with

What town are you in in NC?  Any pictures of your brick house?  Four-square?
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: zooom on November 10, 2011, 07:01:58 AM
I say forget the finials and just do a Vlad the Impaler and mount dead rats on the posts....
Title: Re: Fence Post Finial Dilemma
Post by: RAT900 on November 10, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
Quote from: zooom on November 10, 2011, 07:01:58 AM
I say forget the finials and just do a Vlad the Impaler and mount dead rats on the posts....

I was in fact looking at cast iron and brass long spike finials....but they are more for the gothic and victorians

but with impaled rats they could be universal