[evil]
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-better-than-stoner-says-brivio/19539.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-better-than-stoner-says-brivio/19539.html)
;D
What would you expect his manager to say [roll], I think the record speaks for itself. How many wins did Rossi have on the Ducati, mmmm that's right zero.
It sounds like the mind games have started for 2012.
Quote from: The Don on November 28, 2011, 08:01:30 PM
What would you expect his manager to say [roll], I think the record speaks for itself. How many wins did Rossi have on the Ducati, mmmm that's right zero.
It sounds like the mind games have started for 2012.
indeed their records do speak for themselves, 9 to 2 in rossi's favor.
Quote from: derby on November 28, 2011, 08:16:03 PM
indeed their records do speak for themselves, 9 to 2 in rossi's favor.
On A Ducati ??? When
Someone fix that bike. We can't have Rossi flame out like Jordan >:(
Ago reckons they are on par like him and Hailwood.
I am a Rossi fan. I hope that 2012 brings him back to glory and spank this guys one more time.
(somehow, I doubt it will come true. Ducati is trying to sell bikes with the CF and changing back to aluminum isn't gelling with their corporate plan it seems from what I have been reading.)
I got to give props to Stoner and Lorenzo. But Rossi is still [thumbsup]
I seem to recall the commentaries from a along time ago during the 990 era that the major advantage Yamaha had in Rossi was the ability he had to give feedback about multiple parts for development and was precise as such about those things in a way the engineers understood, and he was generally testing double what other riders were in terms of feedback for parts and changes...so in this degree, maybe he very well IS better than Stoner...
Not in the 800 era.
Sure ;D
Casey:
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5351/caseystoner.jpg)
Vale:
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/715/valerossi.jpg)
holy crap.. looking at that chart.. .not a chance Stoner has been better than Rossi... BUT doesn't mean he won't beat Vale in championships how that he has a bike that stomps.
Quote from: koko64 on November 28, 2011, 10:32:41 PM
Ago reckons they are on par like him and Hailwood.
??? Since when was Ago on a par with Mike the Bike? Most of Ago's wins came when the opposition were riding G50's and Manx Nortons, whilst he was MV mounted and therefore, pretty much invincible. When they were both at MV, Hailwood was the better rider, and he still beat Ago whilst hanging on to the ill handling Honda. Ago can think what he wants, but Mike is the GOAT!
Quote from: mickyvee on November 29, 2011, 11:12:22 AM
??? Since when was Ago on a par with Mike the Bike? Most of Ago's wins came when the opposition were riding G50's and Manx Nortons, whilst he was MV mounted and therefore, pretty much invincible. When they were both at MV, Hailwood was the better rider, and he still beat Ago whilst hanging on to the ill handling Honda. Ago can think what he wants, but Mike is the GOAT!
[thumbsup]
That was Ago's perspective from an interview at the Imola festival. He had Hailwood possibly better than himself and said Stoner was to Rossi what Hailwood was to himself, according to Michael Scott.
So maybe he was conceding that Hailwood was better, but you won't like Ago's conclusion from the comparison.
I also think Rossi is the GOAT, but if you look at the stats, Stoner has been better in the 800 era..
I think Stoner is capable of eclipsing Rossi's record in the premier class, but he will retire too soon to do it. He has made ominous comments about life after racing.
Quote from: koko64 on November 29, 2011, 12:00:08 PM
I also think Rossi is the GOAT, but if you look at the stats, Stoner has been better in the 800 era..
i dunno... it's pretty close in terms of stats. stoner would average out to being 2.5 since 07 and rossi would average out to 3 with the dismal '11 season factored in.
but yeah... stoner is good, really fast... but not a goat. just doesnt have the flash for it i think... doesnt make the crowd love him like rossi does.
i read a quote by hayden when he was commenting on when rossi joined the team. even he said that he was surprised at how detailed and technical rossi was when giving feedback to the techs.
i'm really really hoping they can get that bike to work over the winter. i think if they get some strong results over the next year, rossi might stay at duc for one more... if not, i could def see him jumping ship.
If Ducati is the deciding factor, then I have to say Stoner. He was able to ride the beast quite well. Besides, his wife is
[drool]
Quote from: thought on November 29, 2011, 12:14:27 PM
i dunno... it's pretty close in terms of stats. stoner would average out to being 2.5 since 07 and rossi would average out to 3 with the dismal '11 season factored in.
I see 11 years, 2 championships for Stoner: 1 championship every 5.5 years
I see 16 years, 9 championships for Rossi: 1 championship every 1.78 years
It seems to me, not really that close.
Quote from: HotIce on November 29, 2011, 03:18:46 PM
I see 11 years, 2 championships for Stoner: 1 championship every 5.5 years
I see 16 years, 9 championships for Rossi: 1 championship every 1.78 years
It seems to me, not really that close.
those numbers are from the 800 era, from what koko64 said as seen in the quote.
Quote from: koko64 on November 29, 2011, 12:00:08 PM
I think Stoner is capable of eclipsing Rossi's record in the premier class, but he will retire too soon to do it. He has made ominous comments about life after racing.
Well, if you retire soon enough you can always make claims concerning how you "would have done" if you'd stayed.
Im a big fan of VR but hands down the best rider in the 800 era is Stoner. He was competitive( had several wins on it compared to VR's 0 ) riding the Duc that VR inherited and dominated when he got to the smoother Honda. [Dolph] something tells me itll be the same scenario next season.
I do hope they get that Duc sorted out so VR & Hayden can compete. And ill gladly eat crow if they do start winning. ;D
Quote from: iRam on November 29, 2011, 05:31:24 PM
Im a big fan of VR but hands down the best rider in the 800 era is Stoner. He was competitive( had several wins on it compared to VR's 0 ) riding the Duc that VR inherited and dominated when he got to the smoother Honda. [Dolph] something tells me itll be the same scenario next season.
I do hope they get that Duc sorted out so VR & Hayden can compete. And ill gladly eat crow if they do start winning. ;D
if you're just going to look at the numbers, you can't argue with the 800cc era stats as a whole... vale and stoner have two championships each, stoner has more wins.
that said, there are a lot of variables in play. rossi's gp11 was not casey's gp7-gp10 and you can't really directly compare what each of them did on the platform. not to mention michelin completely shitting the bed in 2007.
next year will be interesting... "big" motors and the ability to actually do testing....
if burgess+rossi can't get ducati sorted and back to a podium-capable chassis, nobody can.
Hate to put this way.....the past does not count during competition next year and I'm looking forward to it [thumbsup]
Quote from: HotIce on November 29, 2011, 03:18:46 PM
I see 11 years, 2 championships for Stoner: 1 championship every 5.5 years
I see 16 years, 9 championships for Rossi: 1 championship every 1.78 years
It seems to me, not really that close.
If you look a little closer Stoner did'nt start racing GP until 2002, that's 9years, 1 every 4.5years
Quote from: The Don on November 29, 2011, 08:16:11 PM
If you look a little closer Stoner did'nt start racing GP until 2002, that's 9years, 1 every 4.5years
which still isn't better than Rossi...
Quote from: Zaster on November 29, 2011, 06:13:42 PM
Hate to put this way.....the past does not count during competition next year and I'm looking forward to it [thumbsup]
I agree....2012 is a whole new ball game...and my hope is that JB & VR start turning wheels in anger after the 1st of the year with a vengeance like they did in the switch from Honda to Yamaha...those 2 did a lot to turn that machine around in the offseason...and my hope is for a similar result here...and unless Ducati is really going to be stubborn about things and hold them and themselves up for being a tainted disaster...they would do well to lend every bit of resource they can to this effort...which in machining aluminum as apposed to curing CF, they should be able to churn out parts rather quickly as needed in this process
Quote from: The Don on November 29, 2011, 08:16:11 PM
If you look a little closer Stoner did'nt start racing GP until 2002, that's 9years, 1 every 4.5years
When the OP title says "better", and not "better, from 780cc to 801cc, ...", one assumes "just better".
The stats I posted shows that Rossi won pretty much in every category, from tricycle to GP, with a few different brands, which is something that not many did.
And from 2 championships, to 9, it is a long way to go.
IMO the greatest feat in racing is winning on different platforms. That could be vehicle type, engine size, manufacturer, race class, etc.
Rossi wins that hands down IMO.
mitt
There will always be the next GOAT. Rossi will eventually retire and Stoner might be the next guy. He might then retire and someone wlse will be compared to them. The greatest rider would need to be the guy that did the most with the least amount. So in that mindset even the 990s were more technically advanced bikes than the bikes ridden a generation before and so on. Truly the best racers ever were those that basically rode on top of a rocket with wheels. All MotoGP riders today in comparison are a bunch of pussies.
i dunno... some goats are just permanent goats.
mohammad ali, michael jordan... i can see someone beating rossi on stats, but i really cant see someone else providing the same excitement that he brings to the table.
plus, he has the coolest helmet designs :) haha
Quote from: duccarlos on November 30, 2011, 11:54:51 AM
There will always be the next GOAT. Rossi will eventually retire and Stoner might be the next guy. He might then retire and someone wlse will be compared to them. The greatest rider would need to be the guy that did the most with the least amount. So in that mindset even the 990s were more technically advanced bikes than the bikes ridden a generation before and so on. Truly the best racers ever were those that basically rode on top of a rocket with wheels. All MotoGP riders today in comparison are a bunch of pussies.
rossi has won at least one championship on all the classes he's participated in; 125gp, 250gp, 500gp, motogp 990s, and motogp 800s. nobody else will ever do that. casey has only won on motogp 800s. sure, casey never ran 500s, but he had opportunities in 125 and 250.
valentino also holds more class and career records than casey.
Quote from: duccarlos on November 30, 2011, 11:54:51 AM
All MotoGP riders today in comparison are a bunch of pussies.
I want to see them riding around on Black Shadows. Let's see who's fast then.
Plus Rossi can do this....http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-racing-videos/rossi-second-to-loeb-in-monza-rally/19571.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-racing-videos/rossi-second-to-loeb-in-monza-rally/19571.html)
I loved the days when the IOM was part of the World Championship series. It's one thing to win at Assen or Monza but to also win on the mountain course bumps up your GOAT points by 10X. Nobody has done that in a while. [thumbsup] [Dolph] [bow_down]
Anyone remembers this?
Rossi VS Lorenzo Catalunya 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X0hWA3kH9Y#)
With crazy Italian commentators included ;D
My tendency is to root for the underdog. Rossi is a rare exception.
Rossi is just bad ass. No fear and taunts his opponents like no one else can.
Quote from: muskrat on December 01, 2011, 08:38:20 AM
Rossi is just bad ass. No fear and taunts his opponents like no one else can.
are you implying he is the Chuck Norris of MotoGP?!?!?!
Quote from: HotIce on November 30, 2011, 04:40:19 PM
Anyone remembers this?
Rossi VS Lorenzo Catalunya 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X0hWA3kH9Y#)
With crazy Italian commentators included ;D
seems like Rossi was just toying to show Lorenzo who's boss.
God.. i luuuuuv my ducati, but watching that video reminds me of how effortless his riding was. Obviously, because we has on a highly refined piece of machinery.. matched with his god given talent. NOW? he lookslike a man with a jet pack strapped to his back, tryying to ski a slaloom. sad to see him fighting that unwieldy beast. I just hope ducati gives up on the carbon fiber frame.. gets some kinda metal back in there.. and watch everyone piss their pants when rossi is in a competetive machine.
Quote from: polivo on December 01, 2011, 01:28:04 PM
God.. i luuuuuv my ducati, but watching that video reminds me of how effortless his riding was. Obviously, because we has on a highly refined piece of machinery.. matched with his god given talent. NOW? he lookslike a man with a jet pack strapped to his back, tryying to ski a slaloom. sad to see him fighting that unwieldy beast. I just hope ducati gives up on the carbon fiber frame.. gets some kinda metal back in there.. and watch everyone piss their pants when rossi is in a competetive machine.
they're already moving to aluminum twin spar
Quote from: zooom on December 01, 2011, 09:00:15 AM
are you implying he is the Chuck Norris of MotoGP?!?!?!
why yes. I'll add you to the next memo list.
Gotta love the old Somebody vs Somebody Argument, Who is the Best, who is the Fastest.
I think both Riders are fantastic, I personally prefer Stoner (He's an Aussie after all) VR is a superb rider and great to watch, but I think it is hard to guess who will be considered the best, until they have both retired and then you sit down and compare Stats then, until that point it's still a guessing game.
But an Interesting thing that came to my mind, Stoner went out on the Ducati and won them a Title, and whenever any of Ducati's rider's dared to say the bike has problems or issues, they were quickly told they were wrong, slapped in the mouth for daring to suggest the mighty Ducati might have got it wrong and told to go out there and win. Stoner did that, on a bike that did not work to his liking, he rode around it, and sometimes it bit him back (It threw him down the road on more than one occasion)
Rossi on the other hand has gone to Ducati Management and said the bike does not work, look at Ducati now, throwing no end of parts and money at the bike because the rider does not like it.
It's interesting to me, Ducati believed no one when they were constantly told the bike does not work, now, when one of the most awarded Riders in this Era jumps on board can't get it to work, they bend over backwards to fix it, all the while there have been rumblings from the Euro Motorbike Press that maybe, just Maybe, Stoner wasn't so bad afterall...
Just my $0.02
Quote from: SpankyDuc on December 04, 2011, 05:45:25 PM
It's interesting to me, Ducati believed no one when they were constantly told the bike does not work...
fwiw, ducati changed their tune after they let bayliss test the bike.
Imagine how much more Stoner could have won on a Duc. Anyway, VR is also bringing in his engineer and a wealth of concrete feedback. Ducati is run by Italians. It took 2 riders that are considered amongst the best t ever ride, VR and Bayliss, to convince them to make changes. If Stone would not be so damn good, maybe they would have made changes. The fact that he could ride around the issues, he also has a completely different riding style, made him a bad example as to how bad the bike really was. Also consider that the bike has been getting worse and worse as the seasons go. Like it was said in this or another thread, the GP7 is not the GP11.
Quote from: duccarlos on December 05, 2011, 07:10:13 AM
Imagine how much more Stoner could have won on a Duc. Anyway, VR is also bringing in his engineer and a wealth of concrete feedback. Ducati is run by Italians. It took 2 riders that are considered amongst the best t ever ride, VR and Bayliss, to convince them to make changes. If Stone would not be so damn good, maybe they would have made changes. The fact that he could ride around the issues, he also has a completely different riding style, made him a bad example as to how bad the bike really was. Also consider that the bike has been getting worse and worse as the seasons go. Like it was said in this or another thread, the GP7 is not the GP11.
it got worse when they went CF.
Quote from: Raux on December 05, 2011, 07:11:40 AM
it got worse when they went CF.
it got worse every year since '07...
Down hill since GP7.
I'm sure in a interview with AMCN Stoner is quoted as saying the opposite. Something along the lines that if Rossi thinks the GP10 was bad he should of rode the GP7
Nicky was the constant, and he will probably say that the GP7 was much better than the 10/11
Quote from: duccarlos on December 05, 2011, 12:56:05 PM
Nicky was the constant, and he will probably say that the GP7 was much better than the 10/11
Hayden didn't ride the GP7.
Capirossi was Stoner's teammate in 2007, Melandri in 2008. Hayden joined in 2009.
the gp7 was still a trellis frame right? they only went to cf frame in gp9 right?
so i mean, the duc that stoner won on was totally diff than the one that exists today.
Quote from: Triple J on December 05, 2011, 01:27:22 PM
Hayden didn't ride the GP7.
Capirossi was Stoner's teammate in 2007, Melandri in 2008. Hayden joined in 2009.
I'm too old to remember this shit. I'm not derby.
Quote from: thought on December 05, 2011, 01:51:25 PM
the gp7 was still a trellis frame right? they only went to cf frame in gp9 right?
so i mean, the duc that stoner won on was totally diff than the one that exists today.
The GP7 was for sure.
The tires were a hell of a lot different then too. That seems to be the bigger issue...or at least the cause.
I don't even know why this is a point of conversation. ???
Rossi is the GOAT IMO and I'm a Stoner fan.
The Duc is a piece of crap, Stoner flattered that bike and never got credit for it. If Stoner had the clout that Rossi has, he'd have changed the bike to work too but that wasn't an option. Ducati are eating humble pie. The shit that everyone said about Stoner warrants an apology IMO, from Rossi, from Burgess and Ducati for not listening. He gets begrudging respect now, I hope one day that the "begrudging" bit goes away.
Quote from: EvilSteve on December 07, 2011, 08:28:17 PM
I don't even know why this is a point of conversation. ???
Rossi is the GOAT IMO and I'm a Stoner fan.
The Duc is a piece of crap, Stoner flattered that bike and never got credit for it. If Stoner had the clout that Rossi has, he'd have changed the bike to work too but that wasn't an option. Ducati are eating humble pie. The shit that everyone said about Stoner warrants an apology IMO, from Rossi, from Burgess and Ducati for not listening. He gets begrudging respect now, I hope one day that the "begrudging" bit goes away.
What he said.
That's a good summary of it.
Quote from: EvilSteve on December 07, 2011, 08:28:17 PM
I don't even know why this is a point of conversation. ???
Rossi is the GOAT IMO and I'm a Stoner fan.
The Duc is a piece of crap, Stoner flattered that bike and never got credit for it. If Stoner had the clout that Rossi has, he'd have changed the bike to work too but that wasn't an option. Ducati are eating humble pie. The shit that everyone said about Stoner warrants an apology IMO, from Rossi, from Burgess and Ducati for not listening. He gets begrudging respect now, I hope one day that the "begrudging" bit goes away.
I almost feel a need to say something. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on December 08, 2011, 05:27:25 PM
I almost feel a need to say something. ;D
something......
Quote from: EvilSteve on December 07, 2011, 08:28:17 PM
I don't even know why this is a point of conversation. ???
Because it's too cold out to go riding, and there's no bike racing to watch. [coffee]
Quote from: zarn02 on December 09, 2011, 10:54:00 AMBecause it's too cold out to go riding, and there's no bike racing to watch. [coffee]
The Stoner/Rossi comparison comes up a lot, it's a well trod path.
How about Rossi/Lorenzo? Seems like a comparison would be much easier to make there.
Anyway, that's why I saved the moto2 races, so I can watch them over winter. :P