I could embrace it, once I achieve all of my other "green" to do's in my house. It drove really nice, and was well put together IMO.
I will not argue the environmental benefits or the politics, since those are no win discussions with bad data supporting both sides, but I think everyone can agree the technology is pretty amazing, and it is forcing design and manufacturing engineers to get creative and use new technology that could have great results in other products too (energy creation, storage, regeneration, fly by wire, controls, HMI, etc).
Not to mention we are hoping to sell a lot of EV charging stations ;D
mitt
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6511140263_bd2c921e23_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6511140519_295f63d94d_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6511140049_1720a488b7_z.jpg)
It's still a Chevy [puke]
It and any other manufacturer's take on it would probably be better with a little diesel acting as the generator
Quote from: lethe on December 14, 2011, 09:05:17 AM
It and any other manufacturer's take on it would probably be better with a little diesel acting as the generator
agreed.
I'm really suprised no one has put out a diesel/electric hybrid. They've been doing it in trains for years?
The volt is pretty cool tech...I'm just not impressed with the car I guess. I like the idea of the new electric ford focus though. How long until some craft electrical engineers mod it up into a eHot Hatch? [laugh]
Don't they explode or something? ;)
Quote from: duccarlos on December 14, 2011, 08:55:13 AM
It's still a Chevy [puke]
Chevy or not, the Volt still gets a thumb up from me. I am glad to see more and more car manufacturers start to think more creatively at how to make the cars more efficient. I haven't seen any Volt on the road yet but I have seen quiet a few Nissan Leafs (or is it Leaves) around Seattle.
I am highly critical of hybrids for many reasons, but I am not going to get into that...I give the Volt thumbs up in the styling and fit/finish department as I saw the VERY European influences executed in the interior. The exterior lends itself to individuality for sure, as there is no mistaking that car for any other, especially at night with it's very Tron-like exterior lighting. The other thing that I give it credit for is the fact that the Volt is its own vehicle chassis, and not a Hybrid implemented in an existing chassis, like the Lexus and Toyota offerings. That takes some serious money and investment of time and effort and general resources to put something out on the market that you have to support for 10 years that is it's own proprietary everything, as apposed to a modification of preexisting stuff with adaptation parts. That to me said they are hoping it will be the great white hope and success that they have pitched it to be for the time put in to develop it.
looks a heck of a lot better than that bastard child of the Aztec known as the Prius
if you're not into fossil fuel power
Quote from: lethe on December 14, 2011, 09:05:17 AM
It and any other manufacturer's take on it would probably be better with a little diesel acting as the generator
Quote from: Le Pirate on December 14, 2011, 09:50:25 AM
I'm really suprised no one has put out a diesel/electric hybrid. They've been doing it in trains for years?
I tell people that and they say HUH? for some reason people think those are pure diesel driven -- about 1/3rd the length of the car is the alternator!
Quote from: ducatiz on December 14, 2011, 11:57:46 AM
I tell people that and they say HUH? for some reason people think those are pure diesel driven -- about 1/3rd the length of the car is the alternator!
remember, most people know next to nothing
I think VW is working on a diesel hybrid. I read something about it this year I think, but I cant remember where. It makes sense though as VW is one of few car makers that offer diesels almost across their whole line.
And I do have to say that the Volt came out a lot better than I expected and the technology is also a lot more real world than a pure EV car. I would love to try one out too.
I've seen a couple Volts aroung Seattle (and a few Leafs). The Volt is a good looking car, and a friggin' supermodel compared to all other hybrids and electrics!
Car and Driver (maybe Motortrend) did an interesting article comparing the Leaf, Volt, & Prius. They basically said the Volt is the most user friendly for people who actually like cars. The other 2 are OK, but more suited to people trying to make an environmental statement.
The most interesting part of the article was comparing which was the most environmentally friendly based on emmissions from how power is produced in the region. Basically, if your power is supplied by dams (like here) a plug-in option is best. If power is supplied by coal, then any plug in option is worse than a gas/electric hybrid. They had a map of the US color coded to show which vehicle was the most environmentally friendly vehicle for every region. Very interesting.
edit...Motortrend...found it:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1108_2011_chevrolet_volt_vs_2011_nissan_leaf_vs_2011_toyota_prius_comparison/ (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1108_2011_chevrolet_volt_vs_2011_nissan_leaf_vs_2011_toyota_prius_comparison/)
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/33290593+w786+ar1/co2-US-chart.jpg)
Meh.
Cool and all from a tech point of view, but until you can buy one at the same cost as an equivalent gas car, who cares?
I looked at one out of curiosity and thought it was overpriced by about $10K...
I have been wanting to build my own home brew electric car for some time now, could be pretty quick around town and wouldn't be terribly expensive to build compared to the price of a new volt.
Inspired by the white zombie http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php (http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php)
Sure, it may not have fancy features such as regenerative braking, but it would still be one mean street machine.
I drop the kids off at school then drive home and take the moto to work.
Rain or shine. Year round.
I'm realizing that for all of my driving needs all I need is an electric golf cart.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on December 14, 2011, 05:27:18 PM
I drop the kids off at school then drive home and take the moto to work.
Rain or shine. Year round.
I'm realizing that for all of my driving needs all I need is an electric golf cart.
Oooooorrrrr... a Ural :D
Quote from: Monster-Jay on December 14, 2011, 04:27:57 PM
I have been wanting to build my own home brew electric car for some time now, could be pretty quick around town and wouldn't be terribly expensive to build compared to the price of a new volt.
Inspired by the white zombie http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php (http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php)
Sure, it may not have fancy features such as regenerative braking, but it would still be one mean street machine.
With those specs I wouldn't expect a range that much greater than 1/4 mile between charges.
Quote from: thought on December 14, 2011, 08:36:16 PM
Oooooorrrrr... a Ural :D
I came >< this close to buy-in from the wife to buy one for just that purpose. Until *I* realized we could get 4 used Toyotas for the price of one Ural.
Curse you responsible part of my brain [bang]
The local community college in my home town does a home-built electric car course every summer... managed to get in for a week of the two-week course, we took a donated HHR and converted it to all electric - fascinating experience. I've got a CB750 chassis sitting in my shed waiting for me to stop blowing all of my money on Ducati parts that I'm going to try to build an all electric bike out of. My problem is that the difference between doing it cheap and doing it right is usually about a factor of 6 to 10, and I'm not good about doing things on the cheap and am lacking the expertise to engineer it if I did it right.
Quote from: RAT900 on December 14, 2011, 11:48:32 AM
looks a heck of a lot better than that bastard child of the Aztec known as the Prius
if you're not into fossil fuel power
Where I live a car like this will mostly be coal powered [thumbsup].
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on December 15, 2011, 12:03:44 AM
I came >< this close to buy-in from the wife to buy one for just that purpose. Until *I* realized we could get 4 used Toyotas for the price of one Ural.
Curse you responsible part of my brain [bang]
what are you going to do with 4 used toyotas? make a train?
The thing I liked about driving it was a more connected feeling than a typical newer chevy sedan with automatic transmission. It almost felt like a manual - the acceleration and deceleration was instant. The steering also felt good.
The blind spots are terrible due to the nice styling, but the forward and backward slow speed cameras are good and the trajectory system is cool - looks like a video game or something.
mitt
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on December 15, 2011, 12:03:44 AM
I came >< this close to buy-in from the wife to buy one for just that purpose. Until *I* realized we could get 4 used Toyotas for the price of one Ural.
Curse you responsible part of my brain [bang]
You have to consider the cool factor you'll be rubbing off onto your kids when you drop them off in a Ural at school though. That alone is priceless. Instant school playground cred.
Used Toyota... not so much. haha
Quote from: ducatiz on December 15, 2011, 06:50:18 AM
what are you going to do with 4 used toyotas? make a train?
1 to drive...and 3 for spare parts?!?!?!?
Quote from: zooom on December 15, 2011, 07:32:05 AM
1 to drive...and 3 for spare parts?!?!?!?
I actually had a friend in Grand Lake CO who (they, father and brother also) did that with Triumph's; TR 4 (running), TR 4a (Running), TR 3 (running), a pair of TR3s's (parts), TR 4 (parts), plus a couple more.
Quote from: sno_duc on December 15, 2011, 08:16:17 AM
I actually had a friend in Grand Lake CO who (they, father and brother also) did that with Triumph's; TR 4 (running), TR 4a (Running), TR 3 (running), a pair of TR3s's (parts), TR 4 (parts), plus a couple more.
I used to know a guy who bought 3 Yugo's so that he could have 1 running car and spare parts at the ready...he bought all 3 for $350 and had a running car for 4.5 years and over a 100K miles....finally said to hell with this, and rented a flatbed towtruck with rear towing hook-up and dragged all 3 to the junkyard in 1 fell swoop and they gave him $500 for the lot which he used as the downpayment for his next car while he drove his sisters car for a couple weeks while shopping...
You can find it on youtube.. some one has a series of vidsconverting a reg 03 i think dodge neon to all electric.. came out great. He has done it to a few cars.. something to the equivalent of 60-80 mpg.. heres a forum just about fuel saving.. http://ecomodder.com/forum/ (http://ecomodder.com/forum/)
Some guys averaging over 50 mpg out of reg 30 mpg cars...
Somewhere in my top 10 "that'd be fun to try" projects is an electric 914 - WAY more fun than a golf cart...
http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/vp914.shtml (http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/vp914.shtml)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-/350514992465?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item519c525551 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-/350514992465?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item519c525551)
here you go.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 15, 2011, 06:50:18 AM
what are you going to do with 4 used toyotas? make a train?
You laugh now, but come the zombie apocalypse I'll be riding in style.
Specifically: Toyota-Land-Train style.
Quote from: Scooter Montgomery on December 15, 2011, 09:47:55 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-/350514992465?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item519c525551 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-/350514992465?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item519c525551)
here you go.
There are more than a few local companies doing DIY controllers for various electric conversions.
Mind you I decided with the money I saved getting a $3K Toyota I can spend the summer finding a decent sidecar rig.
Quote from: Scooter Montgomery on December 15, 2011, 09:47:55 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-/350514992465?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item519c525551 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Jetta-/350514992465?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item519c525551)
here you go.
I love this quote in the ad:
"Very Little Needed for Safety"120V IMO needs safety. Wait until someone gets killed by electrocution on a DIY EV and the circus begins.
mitt
I finally got a chance to drive a Volt last week. I also drove a Leaf and a Plug-In Prius.
The Volt and the Leaf both had very smooth acceleration (Volt was still in "electric" mode).
The Volt is definitely lacking in space and the center stack was quite confusing.
The Leaf was much more spacious, but then there's that whole range issue.
I know most of you guys hate the Prius, but when you look at the upfront costs, and the cost per mile (whether it's in selectable electric mode or hybrid mode), it's the clear winner.
I just bought one of these for cheap.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxGlMIy_8NZ7my7HkoI2EabT_rdrfoolMFDzvWc_4sFwj-Yib0)
I think the guy was running from the cops or something and needed to get rid of it fast.
Anyway I drove all the way home from out side of Reno and I have yet to put gas in it.
Quote from: zooom on December 15, 2011, 08:31:23 AM
I used to know a guy who bought 3 Yugo's so that he could have 1 running car and spare parts at the ready...he bought all 3 for $350 and had a running car for 4.5 years and over a 100K miles....finally said to hell with this, and rented a flatbed towtruck with rear towing hook-up and dragged all 3 to the junkyard in 1 fell swoop and they gave him $500 for the lot which he used as the downpayment for his next car while he drove his sisters car for a couple weeks while shopping...
Yugo Commercial from 1988 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS7709uByWA#)
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on January 22, 2012, 10:11:02 PM
I finally got a chance to drive a Volt last week. I also drove a Leaf and a Plug-In Prius.
The Volt and the Leaf both had very smooth acceleration (Volt was still in "electric" mode).
The Volt is definitely lacking in space and the center stack was quite confusing.
The Leaf was much more spacious, but then there's that whole range issue.
I know most of you guys hate the Prius, but when you look at the upfront costs, and the cost per mile (whether it's in selectable electric mode or hybrid mode), it's the clear winner.
Until I can pull up to a station, fill up my car in 5 minutes, and have a range comparable to gas, people will not take these cars seriously in the US. They should be selling like hot cakes in Europe and those US cities where people rarely leave, like LA and NY.
There needs to be a way to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged batteries in a minute or two. This is already done with propane gas tanks, and can be done with some electric forklifts. We just need a battery standard agreed on by the major car companies (impossibility #1) and we could just visit battery stations instead of gas stations. Battery charging stations could be located right next to sources of cheap power wind farms, dams, coal and nuke plants etc and delivered to more convenient locations by the truckload. it would also be a good way to make sure batteries are regularly inspected for wear and tear and amortize (is that the word? I'm not an accountant) the cost of replacement batteries.
Quote from: 77south on January 23, 2012, 12:20:55 PM
There needs to be a way to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged batteries in a minute or two.
×ª×—× ×ª ×"חלפת סולל×" ר××©×•× ×" ×'צומת ×'יל"ו - Better Place Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6OdSASgLGQ&feature=related#)
Quote from: ducatiz on January 23, 2012, 12:23:42 PM
×ª×—× ×ª ×"חלפת סולל×" ר××©×•× ×" ×'צומת ×'יל"ו - Better Place Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6OdSASgLGQ&feature=related#)
Damn Israelis thinking they're so slick! We'll show them! Instead of having a lift for the battery, we'll lift the car onto the battery! Ha! beat that! USA! USA!
I am guessing in 10 years, all these 2012 electric cars will seem like the discman. A less than perfect transition from the walkman to the ipod.
mitt
I guess even expensive gas isn't helping to move these things...
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/02/gm-shutting-down-chevy-volt-production-for-five-weeks/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/02/gm-shutting-down-chevy-volt-production-for-five-weeks/)
I drove my A3 to a hotel in Napa that had the plugs for electric cars. It was a busy weekend and I couldn't find a place to park, so I parked in the electric recharge spot and put the plug under my hood. Probably confused the hell out of people.
Personally, I believe hybrid cars are for sissies. However, Consumer Reports rated the Camry Hybrid as the best family sedan. Best or worst, it still looks like smashed ass.
Quote from: mitt on January 23, 2012, 08:56:03 PM
I am guessing in 10 years, all these 2012 electric cars will seem like the discman. A less than perfect transition from the walkman to the ipod.
mitt
and they will take their rightful place nestled in between the 8 track cassette, LaserDisc and the Betamax players
Quote from: sugarcrook on March 02, 2012, 10:34:39 PM
I drove my A3 to a hotel in Napa that had the plugs for electric cars. It was a busy weekend and I couldn't find a place to park, so I parked in the electric recharge spot and put the plug under my hood.
[laugh] [clap]
Quote from: RAT900 on March 03, 2012, 12:54:37 AM
and they will take their rightful place nestled in between the 8 track cassette, LaserDisc and the Betamax players
+1
Also, ridiculous expense aside, the fact that they're all make the beast with two backsing ugly can't help sales of any of these cars.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 03, 2012, 04:20:24 AM
+1
Also, ridiculous expense aside, the fact that they're all make the beast with two backsing ugly can't help sales of any of these cars.
I wonder how much sales would improve for the Prius if someone in the design department spent more than five minutes on how the car looks?
As a tool the car functions well which is why sales are good. But man is it ugly.
no joke. the only good looking electric is http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us (http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us)
Quote from: muskrat on March 03, 2012, 08:11:15 AM
no joke. the only good looking electric is http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us (http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us)
Yeah, the $95,900 starting MSRP might be a stretch for quite a few people.
It might look good, but the performance from a MPG or MPGe standpoint is pretty weak. ~32 on electric (after a 6hr charge), then 20MPG??
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on March 03, 2012, 03:10:38 PM
Yeah, the $95,900 starting MSRP might be a stretch for quite a few people.
It might look good, but the performance from a MPG or MPGe standpoint is pretty weak. ~32 on electric (after a 6hr charge), then 20MPG??
It's a start though.
It's good to see some others giving it a try, some good innovations might come out of it.
You'd think when pushing into such high price ranges doing a diesel/electric would make more sense.
Quote from: lethe on March 03, 2012, 03:14:51 PM
It's a start though.
It's good to see some others giving it a try, some good innovations might come out of it.
You'd think when pushing into such high price ranges doing a diesel/electric would make more sense.
Not when you can buy a gas powered car for $10k that gets the same or better mileage.
How much gasoline can you buy for the difference in price? $85,000? Let's say gas is $5/gallon. that's 17,000 gallons of gas. At only 30 MPG that's over 500,000 miles driven.
It's just not worth it to pay $95k for an electric car for gas mileage purposes if it gets under 200 mpg.
Quote from: ducatiz on March 03, 2012, 03:32:09 PM
Not when you can buy a gas powered car for $10k that gets the same or better mileage.
How much gasoline can you buy for the difference in price? $85,000? Let's say gas is $5/gallon. that's 17,000 gallons of gas. At only 30 MPG that's over 500,000 miles driven.
It's just not worth it to pay $95k for an electric car for gas mileage purposes if it gets under 200 mpg.
so really it just is about making a statement or just having something uncommon
Quote from: lethe on March 03, 2012, 03:14:51 PM
It's a start though.
It's good to see some others giving it a try, some good innovations might come out of it.
You'd think when pushing into such high price ranges doing a diesel/electric would make more sense.
The Prius was a start, way back when, too. It's MSRP at that time...$19,995.
It would make sense for a setup like the Fisker to use diesel/electric as it's only form of propulsion is the electric motors (much like a locomotive). Using diesel to drive the wheels in addition to charging batteries doesn't make much sense however, because both diesel & electric are high torque at low RPM.
It will be interesting to see how the Tesla Model S sells at it has a much lower price point ($50K for the base model), has seating for 5 (Karma & Volt are 4 passenger) & IMHO looks much better than the Karma.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on March 03, 2012, 03:35:11 PM
The Prius was a start, way back when, too. It's MSRP at that time...$19.995.
It would make sense for a setup like the Fisker to use diesel/electric as it is only form of propulsion is the electric motors (much like a locomotive setup). Using diesel to drive the wheels in addition to charging batteries doesn't make much sense however, because both diesel & electric are high torque at low RPM.
It will be interesting to see how the Tesla Model S sells at it has a much lower price point ($50K for the base model), has seating for 5 (Karma & Volt are 4 passenger) & IMHO looks much better than the Karma.
should be some interesting things coming out of all this
Quote from: lethe on March 03, 2012, 03:51:47 PM
should be some interesting things coming out of all this
Not to mention, the next Acura NSX that everyone is drooling over will be a hybrid.
Quote from: lethe on March 03, 2012, 03:34:13 PM
so really it just is about making a statement or just having something uncommon
Arguably, buying any vehicle over $25,000 is just about making a statement or just having something uncommon. Realize that the median household income in the USA is ~$50,000 for two adults, two kids and a dog.
I was commenting on the looks factor. If you can afford a 100k car who gives a shit about mpg's. [laugh]
Quote from: muskrat on March 05, 2012, 08:24:57 PM
I was commenting on the looks factor. If you can afford a 100k car who gives a shit about mpg's. [laugh]
I agree, but the whole basis behind these cars isn't performance, it is economy.
All of the companies making high-end performance electric/hybrids are either going out of business or out.
It will be interesting to see if Acura's hybrid NSX will be a loss leader. They can afford to sell it under cost. Fisker, et al cannot.
Point is, there are plenty of guys who know how to tear down a carb or a fuel injector. Scaling that up to a Lambo from a Fiat isn't a big deal.
There aren't enough electric-car techs around yet, and buying a 100-200k car with an unproven technology is just dumb.