A buddy is looking into an ST. What model should he be searching for?
In the "For What Its Worth" category with no first hand experience - I've been doing a lot of thinking and research down this line. The ST-2 is great for easier maintenance and the ST-3 is probably the best tourer. From what I've read, the ST-3 made '04 - '07 were probably the best due to the correction of some issues. The ST-4 is great but with more maintenance.
If I can get less underemployed, an '04 - '07 Black ST-3 is high on the priority list.
What he said. Just my two cents.
Never owned one but what Warren said has been told to me by others.
I just sold my ST4s. Too much hooligan bred into it. Does he realy need, or want, a "touring" bike that will do 160? And the lights suck.
I'd own an St3 in a heartbeat. Adjustable bars. Better seat. Decent headlights. Better looking. Much more tractable engine. The ABS version's suspension is just as good with Tin coated, fully adjustable Showa forks and Ohlins shock. I still can't believe they dialed all that sweetness into the 3's and then stopped production.
Make sure your bud knows there's a big dif between an ST4 and an ST4s, too.
As far as ST2s go, look for one with a three phase alternator.
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 15, 2011, 05:44:20 PM
What model should he be searching for?
I guess it all depends on what your preferences is may be. Do you care if the suspension is adjustable? Do you prefer TiN coated forks? Is a Showa or Sachs rear shock fine, or do you want an Ohlins? Do you prefer/want three-spoke or five-spoke wheels? Aluminum swingarm? do you want the lower power/lower maintenance requirement of a 2V or do you want the 4V? Do you want to have a gnawling speck of subconscious chewing into the back of your brain that the next service may require the replacement of some rockers? Do you want cheaper timing belts or the more expensive ones? Carbon fiber your passion?
Other than suspension, wheels, and power, the bikes are pretty much the same.
This is a a good place to go reading about the ST models - http://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/ (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/)
and this one in particular as the first post has a decent summary of the models - http://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/15290-newbies-please-read-ducati-sport-touring-models.html (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/15290-newbies-please-read-ducati-sport-touring-models.html)
For the record, I bought my ST2 new and have something like 54k miles on it. It's my favorite bike and I wouldn't trade it for an ST3 or any ST4 varient....I wouldn't mind the ST4s wheels for their looks, though.
Quote from: Desmo Demon on December 15, 2011, 06:39:52 PM
....I wouldn't mind the ST4s wheels for their looks, though.
DAMMITT !!!!
If I'd thought about that I would have swapped them with my S2r wheels before I sold it! [bang]
Had a good conversation going on the ST2/3/4's here:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=53352.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=53352.0)
Quote from: D3vi@nt on December 15, 2011, 07:09:10 PM
Had a good conversation going on the ST2/3/4's here:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=53352.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=53352.0)
I was too lazy to go find that thread, but I did think of it earlier. I spent a lot of time typing some of my replies in that conversation. ;D
As Howie mentioned, if it's a 1998 ST2 (like mine) with the two phase electrical system, I'd probably hold out for the 1999+ with the three phase.
ST2 has a good balance of power. St3 is a little weird for maintenance but still is very good. St4, why put a superbike motor on a tourer?
If it were my money, i'd buy the St2. Shares a lot with the regular desmodue
Quote from: sofadriver on December 15, 2011, 06:52:03 PM
DAMMITT !!!!
If I'd thought about that I would have swapped them with my S2r wheels before I sold it! [bang]
Actually, I don't think that ST4s rear wheel would be a direct bolt-on for the SSSA of the S2R, Additionally, and I can very well be incorrect, but I think the speedo drive on your ST4s was on the front wheel and not the same as your S2R, and I believe the rotors are different for points of mounting, overall diameter, and offset. You possibly would have needed some spacers machined, too...so don't beat yourself up. ;)
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 15, 2011, 05:44:20 PM
A buddy is looking into an ST. What model should he be searching for?
I always get a lot of grief for my opinion on the ST but I had a 2006 ST3 and hated it - too underpowered to be considered a sport tourer in my opinion - definitely not for 2-up riding and too light to be considered a tourer - wouldn't want to do any long haul super slab stretches on it - handled very nicely, decent capacity for the bags and looked good without them but just wasn't my cup of tea - VERY uncomfortable for a passenger uless you got a top case and backrest but still even more underpowered for 2. I went from an FJR to the ST3 (not by choice - the FJR was totaled by some idiot - I wasn't on it) and sold it after 3 months
Now have an S4RS and love it so it's not a Ducati hatred thing going on
Quote from: Frisco on December 15, 2011, 09:49:23 PM
too underpowered to be considered a sport tourer in my opinion - definitely not for 2-up riding and too light to be considered a tourer - wouldn't want to do any long haul super slab stretches on it - handled very nicely, decent capacity for the bags and looked good without them but just wasn't my cup of tea - VERY uncomfortable for a passenger uless you got a top case and backrest but still even more underpowered for 2.
Probably since I've never ridden any other bike that is classified as a "sport-touring" bike, I consider even the lower HP ST2 to be terrific for long distance riding - if it is what I would want to do. For long-distance, I've done a SaddleSore 1000 with my ST and have no problems with 500+ mile days. It's storage space is fairly small compared to other bikes, but I prefer to not be weighted down or have too much cr@p with me while on a trip. The panniers and a small tank bag are perfectly fine for 2-4 days of clothing, toiletries, and tools/mini air compressor....for me AND my wife.
For two-up riding and comfort, my wife and I had done a few 300-500 mile days in the mountain twisties without any issues or concerns. I recall one day we were riding two-up, 470 miles, everyone we were riding with were riding solo, and they couldn't shake us if their lives depended on it. The bike railed with both of us on it (including dragging hard parts in the curves). Not only this, but my wife is 5'11" and not necessarily small. Throw on top of this that her left leg is paralyzed from the knee down and she was a year way from a total hip replacement when we did that day-ride. I'd guess with full gear for both of us and the stuff in the panniers, my "underpowered" ST2 was hauling around about 500 pounds.
Quote from: Desmo Demon on December 17, 2011, 06:59:25 PM
Probably since I've never ridden any other bike that is classified as a "sport-touring" bike, I consider even the lower HP ST2 to be terrific for long distance riding - if it is what I would want to do. For long-distance, I've done a SaddleSore 1000 with my ST and have no problems with 500+ mile days. It's storage space is fairly small compared to other bikes, but I prefer to not be weighted down or have too much cr@p with me while on a trip. The panniers and a small tank bag are perfectly fine for 2-4 days of clothing, toiletries, and tools/mini air compressor....for me AND my wife.
For two-up riding and comfort, my wife and I had done a few 300-500 mile days in the mountain twisties without any issues or concerns. I recall one day we were riding two-up, 470 miles, everyone we were riding with were riding solo, and they couldn't shake us if their lives depended on it. The bike railed with both of us on it (including dragging hard parts in the curves). Not only this, but my wife is 5'11" and not necessarily small. Throw on top of this that her left leg is paralyzed from the knee down and she was a year way from a total hip replacement when we did that day-ride. I'd guess with full gear for both of us and the stuff in the panniers, my "underpowered" ST2 was hauling around about 500 pounds.
I always say whatever works for the rider/owner because that who has to be happy - for me no way - combined my wife and I are close to 300lbs and the ST3 was no comparision to what we had been used to on the FJR - 126HP at the wheel isn't even close to 83 that the ST3 claimed to put out - I don't know what the ST2 has but even with a 100lb or so weight difference the ST had no acceleration like the FJR - 500-600 mile days are what I'm looking to do comfortably on any touring bike - with a 5.5 gsallon tank I was getting 225 miles easily out of a tank - the ST3 needed to stop more.
I'm not saying it's a bad bike but it all dependws what the rider is looking to on it - need to look at all options or too many people end up unhappy and blame the bike - there isn't one bike out there that does everything perfectly - there are bikes that do only one thing and there are bikes that serve multipurposes well and are better at some of those multipurposes than the others. Example is the multi-starda - a great bike but for looks it just doesn't do it for me. I strongly suggest anyone ride many bikes before making a decision
Quote from: Frisco on December 18, 2011, 11:52:46 AM
I always say whatever works for the rider/owner because that who has to be happy
Exactly, which is why I wanted to state a difference of opinion than yours and made it a poiint to state that I have never owned any other sport-touring bike. For the type of riding I do (solo, weekend trips, and mountain twisties), the ST2 is just about perfect. If I was superslabbing all the time or constantly doing 5+ day trips, I think I'd probably go wiuth an FJR or VFR.
Well I stumbled onto this discussion, so I'll give you a different perspective. As far as I'm concerned there is only one sport tourer out there better than my ST3 and that would be a MTS1200, except it's too tall for me, with a 30" inseam. All of the other so called sport tourer's need to go on a diet IMHO, that includes the FJR, which I've ridden on more than one occasion. My 04' ST3 has 43-44k+ miles on it, I bought it new, I've done plenty of 1,200 - 1,500 mile weekends on it with and without my GF on board. I tend to run on two lane back roads, twisty of course, and occasionally run on the interstate, such as going to the INDY GP, once I get to Columbus, Ohio from Virginia not much choice. The ST3 has all the power anyone needs and it's got the right torque. With stock gearing it's doing 86MPH in 6th gear at 5K, that is why I recommend going up 3 teeth on the rear sprocket. At Mid-Ohio my GF and I were doing 135+ on back straight with full luggage. My GF and I have never had an issue with packing for an extended trip, the 2 side case and top case hold more than enough. The only complaint I have with my ST3 is I wish it had ABS. If you want a great bike to run through the mountains all day say from No. Virginia down to Barber Motosports without getting on the interstate but know if you do the bike can handle it, the ST3 is up to the task. If you want to run all day on the interstate and with an occasional detour on some twistys get a BMW, FJ, or a Concours and work on your upper body muscles cause you'll need them to throw those bikes around. Just MHO - Gene
Get a Roadstar. [evil]. To me a tourer shouldn't need service every 6k miles. I'm guessing they will bring something back but only if they increase the service intervals. I personally like the ST line but for a tourer it doesn't fit the bill IMO.
My buddy is looking at two ST4S bikes. One is a red 05 with 36k the other is a grey 03 with 28k and ABS. Thoughts?
Quote from: cupcake on January 13, 2012, 04:40:51 PM
My buddy is looking at two ST4S bikes. One is a red 05 with 36k the other is a grey 03 with 28k and ABS. Thoughts?
Is he going to ride them like a circus performer -- standing on the pegs in the middle?
Quote from: ducatiz on January 13, 2012, 06:15:47 PM
Is he going to ride them like a circus performer -- standing on the pegs in the middle?
Only on every 3rd Tuesday.