So yeah, dropped one of my MBP collets down the oil hole on the vertical cylinder of my 748, exhaust side. Someone please tell me what my options are to try to get the thing out... I'm at a bit of a loss because I've been working on the valve adjustment/collet install all day long and am very tired...
good news would be great... :'(
Quote from: hiero on June 22, 2008, 09:16:44 PM
So yeah, dropped one of my MBP collets down the oil hole on the vertical cylinder of my 748, exhaust side. Someone please tell me what my options are to try to get the thing out... I'm at a bit of a loss because I've been working on the valve adjustment/collet install all day long and am very tired...
good news would be great... :'(
magnet on a string?
Quote from: hiero on June 22, 2008, 09:16:44 PM
So yeah, dropped one of my MBP collets down the oil hole on the vertical cylinder of my 748, exhaust side. Someone please tell me what my options are to try to get the thing out... I'm at a bit of a loss because I've been working on the valve adjustment/collet install all day long and am very tired...
good news would be great... :'(
If you're lucky, it'll come out when you open the drain plug. If you're not...
Quote from: m0t0g0th on June 22, 2008, 09:23:43 PM
magnet on a string?
i wish...
Quote from: Hedgehog on June 22, 2008, 09:25:33 PM
If you're lucky, it'll come out when you open the drain plug. If you're not...
it's the 'you're not...' part that I'm really worried about... I'm at a point where I'm gonna leave it be for a at least a day and get back to it after I get some downtime
if I don't find it after oil change, could I possibly shoot some air down the hole and try to dislodge it? or would that just wedge it in more?
Do you have one of those grease guns/ hand pumps? fill that sucker up with oil and start pouring it in there. buy a case of cheap dino oil and start flushing. Its bound to come out. Also, remove your oil filter becasue if it settles in there, man, thats gonna suck.
i wouldnt think it could get to the oil filter, wouldnt the screen catch it? im not familiar with the oil system but i would think the oil travels through the screen before going to the oil filter.
If it does come out with the oil go buy a lottery ticket, but it is worth a try. Pouring oil through the cylinder head drain hole may increase your chances. The text book answer is take things apart and find it or severe damage may occur. On the flip side there are cases where after thousands of miles people find a collet dropped in there at the factory while doing an oil change and no damage occurred. Speedguide was one. Your bike, your decision. In the future, block the drain hole with something. You could use a screw or even an old ear plug. Tie a string around it so you don't leave it there.
There is probably a pretty good chance it's still in the oil passage; try removing the fill plug and sucking the collet back out with a shop-vac.
Quote from: Dan on June 23, 2008, 02:48:30 AM
There is probably a pretty good chance it's still in the oil passage; try removing the fill plug and sucking the collet back out with a shop-vac.
Worth a try [thumbsup]
Quote from: howie on June 22, 2008, 10:59:08 PM
If it does come out with the oil go buy a lottery ticket, but it is worth a try. Pouring oil through the cylinder head drain hole may increase your chances. The text book answer is take things apart and find it or severe damage may occur. On the flip side there are cases where after thousands of miles people find a collet dropped in there at the factory while doing an oil change and no damage occurred. Speedguide was one. Your bike, your decision. In the future, block the drain hole with something. You could use a screw or even an old ear plug. Tie a string around it so you don't leave it there.
I'll get cracking on it, I want to say I'm going to do it tonight, because that's how I am, but I really think I need to step away for a day and start fresh. In any case, the text book answer is what scares me, does that mean split cases, or just pull the covers? I'm perfectly fine with just pulling the covers if that's what needs to be done... splitting cases, on the other hand, is not something I want to attempt...
Quote from: Dan on June 23, 2008, 02:48:30 AM
There is probably a pretty good chance it's still in the oil passage; try removing the fill plug and sucking the collet back out with a shop-vac.
I'm not sure I can get a shop vac onto the hole (vert cyl exhaust)?? Or do you mean putting the shop vac over the hole for the fill plug?
putting rocker cover screws in the drain holes works, because that way you know where the missing rocker cover screws are when you've got all the covers on and you're two screws short.
i'd say magnet or try sucking it out. little plastic tube taped into the pointy end of the shop vac. seal it up with race tape and the suction will be amazing.
Quote from: howie on June 22, 2008, 10:59:08 PM
On the flip side there are cases where after thousands of miles people find a collet dropped in there at the factory while doing an oil change and no damage occurred.
A local shop owner put on a valve job tutorial at an event and he said it was quite common for them to find a collet stuck to the plug magnet when they did a 1st service on a bike. There's probably been a lot of Ducs that have come off the assembly line over the years with an extra collet or two. So I wouldn't be tooo worried about damage at least.
Quote from: brad black on June 23, 2008, 06:38:41 AM
putting rocker cover screws in the drain holes works, because that way you know where the missing rocker cover screws are when you've got all the covers on and you're two screws short.
i'd say magnet or try sucking it out. little plastic tube taped into the pointy end of the shop vac. seal it up with race tape and the suction will be amazing.
i like that, I'll try the plastic tube tape thing if I don't find it in the oil... and will use the rocker cover screw trick for the other 4 valves...
Quote from: yuu on June 23, 2008, 06:43:37 AM
A local shop owner put on a valve job tutorial at an event and he said it was quite common for them to find a collet stuck to the plug magnet when they did a 1st service on a bike. There's probably been a lot of Ducs that have come off the assembly line over the years with an extra collet or two. So I wouldn't be tooo worried about damage at least.
yeah, I found one in the monster's oil at one of the valve adjustments I did, the only thing is that these are MBP collets, not only more expensive, but more substantial too! definitely want to get that sucker out before it grenades the engine...
Try a thin wire down the hole to determine if the collet is caught in the passage or not. If the collet is stuck in the passage, then the shop-vac trick would be worth a try.
If it did fall through the entire passage, then it's in the oil sump area. Trouble with that is that there are trap-doors and such down there so it may not have made it to where the sump screen is. If it did make it to the sump screen then you're lucky...
There's no way it would make it to the oil filter, or into the oil pump unless there is a large hole in your sump screen.
Investigative 'surgery' is required first. Find out where that sucker is before proceeding (if you can't find where it is, at least find where it is not....)
It'll probably be in the oil. A few years ago, the shift pawl spring broke into several pieces on my SS. They all came out in the oil. I've ridden over 20,000 miles since then with never a problem.
Drain the oil FIRST, before you try resorting to anything else. If it's not in the oil, run a long piece of heavy wire down the hole to see if it's lodged there. Then, pump a bunch of oil down the hole to see if that flushes it out. But, I'm betting it'll come out in the oil with no problems. There's not really much of anywhere else it can be.
probing around with a magnet can't hurt. not on a string, but on something hard, like a pen but make sure it's secured well.
i used to have this magnet thing that was on the end of an antenna. it was a neodymium magnet and it would easily pick up a screwdriver from an inch or two away. if you ahve something like that, maybe you can pull it out.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on June 23, 2008, 02:30:27 PM
probing around with a magnet can't hurt. not on a string, but on something hard, like a pen but make sure it's secured well.
i used to have this magnet thing that was on the end of an antenna. it was a neodymium magnet and it would easily pick up a screwdriver from an inch or two away. if you ahve something like that, maybe you can pull it out.
Magnetic/telescopic wand. home depot has them for like 5 bucks, or mail order ebay for cheapo.
Quote from: He Man on June 23, 2008, 04:24:19 PM
Magnetic/telescopic wand. home depot has them for like 5 bucks, or mail order ebay for cheapo.
there you go:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=37187
$1 on sale
you have to buy that in the store though, and it costs 9 bucks for me to get to one [bang] [bang] they always email me great coupons every week that i would use in a heart beat if it didnt cost so damn much to cross the tunnel into New Jersey.
be careful with cheap telescoping magnets as there is nothing like fishing for something to find the magnet that was crimped onto the end is now attached to something steel inside your engine. Been there done that. [bang]
If you try to force the collet down the hole do not use too much air, If the collet blasts down the drain and bounces off something it could go toward your gearbox.
I like the shop vac idea . I also like the get away from the bike for a day idea. [thumbsup]
good luck
nothing in the oil, tried to fish a wire into the holes and that didn't work too well as the wire kept bending and wouldn't snake through, I have a nifty one man brake bleeder that uses an air compressor as the source for suction (uses venturi), so I put a line small enough to fit the hole and put the brake bleeder to work and still nothing, even at 80psi :(
I used some compressed air to shoot down the hole too and that came up with nothing as well...
I have one of those flexible magnets on the end picker upper tool, so that's what I've been using, jammed it into the drain plug hole for a good 10 minutes and still nothing...
I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the collet either didn't fall into the hole, or maybe it's stuck behind the cam somewhere, is that possible?
I'm gonna spend a good hour or two combing the concrete tomorrow where I was working on the bike, maybe I'll get lucky and come up with the missing collet....
keep the ideas and advice coming! I really do appreciate it!
ducvet, I'm taking two days mandatory away from the bike now :-\ at least. I may not even get back to it until saturday just so I can clear my head. definitely seems prudent to take a break for sure.
Quote from: hiero on June 23, 2008, 07:11:50 PM
I'm gonna spend a good hour or two combing the concrete tomorrow where I was working on the bike, maybe I'll get lucky and come up with the missing collet....
keep the ideas and advice coming! I really do appreciate it!
sweep the area with one of those magnet brooms. .they have them on hotel vacs. good luck.
Quote from: hiero on June 23, 2008, 07:11:50 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the collet either didn't fall into the hole, or maybe it's stuck behind the cam somewhere, is that possible?
You'll probably find it where I find everything I drop - in between the cylinders atop the crankcase where you can just barely see it. [laugh]
My take:
Try and find/extract it as you are doing. If you find it, great! Obviously if you don't find it...
Cylinders need to come off. Hopefully you could find it then, but with the jugs off you could at least install some high comp pistosn...and if those arn't in the budget, at least set the squish and time the cams.
Shops usually charge 6-8 hours to do that, and if they are setting the squish they can certainly fish around in the motor for the collet that way.
so just an update.
I FINALLY got around to buttoning the 748 back up yesterday (still need to get a new battery, stole the one from the monster for the time being), and I ran her for a good 100 miles or so yesterday, no collet mixed up in the engine as far as I could tell... guess I keep running and if I don't find it on the oil drain plug magnet at the next oil change, it's probably hanging around somewhere on the concrete! ... :P