My wife has been looking at the Hyundai Sonata and the Kia Optima. We went to a vw dealer yesterday and really liked the tdi passat. Anyone have any insight?
some reported issues with fuel pumps exploding and engines grenading as a result but that's very few. tdiforum has the dope. the new CR engine is supposed to be very good and can handle B20 in anecdotal testing. VW says no more than B10 but that's likely overconservative.
Cool, I'll check out tdiforum. I loved roasting the tires at 1/2 throttle during the test drive. Not what I expected! What's the purpose of urea injection?
Quote from: rgramjet on March 04, 2012, 03:32:08 PM
Cool, I'll check out tdiforum. I loved roasting the tires at 1/2 throttle during the test drive. Not what I expected! What's the purpose of urea injection?
Reduces particulate in the exhaust. When the fluid runs out, the car goes into a reduced speed mode. At least it says it does in my f250's manual. So you refill fluid at regular services. Adds about $50 to the cost of a service on my truck.
93k on my 2011 Golf TDI and so far so good.
My engine is slightly different in that mine has a particulate filter rather than doing the urea thing.
Been rock solid so far. [thumbsup]
Quote from: rgramjet on March 04, 2012, 03:32:08 PM
Cool, I'll check out tdiforum. I loved roasting the tires at 1/2 throttle during the test drive. Not what I expected! What's the purpose of urea injection?
it eliminates oxides of nitrogen and almost all CO. the downside is the tank has to be refilled every 5k to 10k miles. upsides is it is cheap and will only get cheaper.
Consumer Reports tested the SE5 version and didn't recommend it. Complained about lackluster interior and poor cornering grip. The recommended cars in the family sedan category are: Camry, Altima, Accord, Sonata, Legacy, Optima, Fusion and Mazda6.
Quote from: sugarcrook on March 04, 2012, 03:51:10 PM
Consumer Reports tested the SE5 version and didn't recommend it. Complained about lackluster interior and poor cornering grip. The recommended cars in the family sedan category are: Camry, Altima, Accord, Sonata, Legacy, Optima, Fusion and Mazda6.
..and of course the diesel performance for those cars is what?
VW interiors are VW. Cornering can be improved by adding the Biltstein B12 kit, and you still get the joy of having about 3x the torque of everything else in the class.
Isn't it 2012, motor trend, Car of the Year?
I believe it was the MT's COTY. Simply relaying the info as I just picked up the Consumer Reports car issue. It doesn't look like they reviewed many, if any, diesels.
The GTI was on my list before I picked the A3. The GTI lost out largely because of the interior, something I believe VW has been getting stingy with.
The Sonata and Optima are loaded with bells and whistles. The turbo versions acceleration was surprisingly nice, albeit with a premium fueled requirement. Paddle shifters, really?
The vws interior is straightforward, understated and nice.
Some of the VWs are coming out of the factory with Kumho tires that are, well, not to good in the handling department. From my experience, sometimes Consumer's Reports ideas of good handling leave a lot to be desired.
Not the diesel, but:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2012_hyundai_sonata_gls_2012_toyota_camry_le_and_2012_volkswagen_passat_se_family_court/2nd_and_1st_place.html (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2012_hyundai_sonata_gls_2012_toyota_camry_le_and_2012_volkswagen_passat_se_family_court/2nd_and_1st_place.html)
if VW makes the interior nice, whose going to buy the Audi's?
we've looked at them a couple times. My wife keeps talking about a slightly bigger car, and the Passat would fit the bill. As much as I like VWs, it's a pretty bland car...but it seems like they're bland-ing down all their cars now days. The car does drive nice. Not a sports car, but it's nice...with a lower case n.
Ill take the "papas sin sal" in exchange for 40+ Hwy mpg!
Quote from: lethe on March 04, 2012, 03:39:56 PM
93k on my 2011 Golf TDI and so far so good.
My engine is slightly different in that mine has a particulate filter rather than doing the urea thing.
Been rock solid so far. [thumbsup]
93k in a year? Damn...
Quote from: lethe on March 04, 2012, 03:39:56 PM
93k on my 2011 Golf TDI and so far so good.
My engine is slightly different in that mine has a particulate filter rather than doing the urea thing.
Been rock solid so far. [thumbsup]
I thought the 2012 version has a particulate filter too.
>googling<
yep, the 2012 has that too. The piss injector is after the filter.. Filter is for carbon (C) and the urea is for CO and NOx
Quote from: cokey on March 04, 2012, 08:07:46 PM
93k in a year? Damn...
60k a year, I've had it a bit over a year and a half now
Quote from: ducatiz on March 04, 2012, 08:11:00 PM
I thought the 2012 version has a particulate filter too.
>googling<
yep, the 2012 has that too. The piss injector is after the filter.. Filter is for carbon (C) and the urea is for CO and NOx
mine lacks a bladder
Quote from: lethe on March 05, 2012, 12:46:46 AM
60k a year, I've had it a bit over a year and a half now
mine lacks a bladder
ah. i thought you were saying the 2012 had no filter whereas yours did gotcha.
i wonder how much hp you lose with the filter on?
my truck had no catalyst, nothing. just a straight pipe from the exhaust manifold to the tail with a $50 muffler on the end.
on cold days it looked like a semi starting up..
Quote from: ducatiz on March 05, 2012, 04:47:24 AM
ah. i thought you were saying the 2012 had no filter whereas yours did gotcha.
i wonder how much hp you lose with the filter on?
my truck had no catalyst, nothing. just a straight pipe from the exhaust manifold to the tail with a $50 muffler on the end.
on cold days it looked like a semi starting up..
hahahaha
You were one of those guys that I always get pissed at when I have to sit behind them at a stop light [laugh]
Quote from: Le Pirate on March 05, 2012, 06:14:55 AM
hahahaha
You were one of those guys that I always get pissed at when I have to sit behind them at a stop light [laugh]
because of the soot? yep. and if you had a WRX with a fart can, you can bet I was revving it.
My step-father has the Jetta TDI Wagon and he loves the car! The full sunroof is awesome, opens up the interior! Oh, and silly high mileage, much better than advertized!
Regarding the interiors, my wife and I both noticed how the build quality seems better in our 1994 (Third Gen.) Golf GL than in the new ones. I think it was a 2010 MK 5 Rabbit and the interiors looked really cheap.
Quote from: The Mad King Pepe' on March 05, 2012, 06:42:21 AM
My step-father has the Jetta TDI Wagon and he loves the car! The full sunroof is awesome, opens up the interior! Oh, and silly high mileage, much better than advertized!
Yeah, once the engine is broken in the actual mileage goes up 10-20%. It also depends on how you drive, but I drive "Somewhat Aggressively" and still get about 50mpg on the highway at 70.
Around 35 in town driving, but again... lots of stops/starts.
I've got an 05 Golf TDI and I love it. When I bought this car, I was trading up from an 87 Celebrity, so my plan has always been to drive until it just falls apart. And when it does, there's probably going to be another VW/Audi TDI in my sights as a replacement.
When I was shopping in 05, the Jetta was slotted above the Golf. Kitted out Golfs were $22k, and bottom-end Jettas were starting at $20k, and then Passats started around $26k (IIRC). Over the last 7 years, the entire line has been sliding down, and Jettas now start around $16k. Unfortunately, to make the economics work, its come at the expense of the interiors, and every outlet that has been reviewing cars has been calling VW out on it. But at the same time, VW's market share has been steadily increasing, despite the "cheaper" interiors.
Aside from fuel, tires, and oil, I feel like I've been through a ton with my Golf. Just put a new control arm, bushings, and ball joint this past weekend. I had some turbo internals blow back in November that resulted in a new turbo and a handful of pipes being thrown in. Last year my "in-tank lifter pump" failed. The turbo and lifter pump both took 4 trips to the dealership to sniff out and resolve, with bills over $1k range.
But with all that being said, I still love my little Golf, and would buy another VW in a heartbeat.
Just driving into work this morning, my fuel gauge is at 50%, and my trip odometer is at 350 miles. While diesel has been running about $0.30 higher than regular unleaded, I'm still amazed when I put up 550-600 miles on a 14.5 gal tank.
Quote from: bevel on March 05, 2012, 08:00:22 AM
I've got an 05 Golf TDI and I love it. When I bought this car, I was trading up from an 87 Celebrity, so my plan has always been to drive until it just falls apart. And when it does, there's probably going to be another VW/Audi TDI in my sights as a replacement.
When I was shopping in 05, the Jetta was slotted above the Golf. Kitted out Golfs were $22k, and bottom-end Jettas were starting at $20k, and then Passats started around $26k (IIRC). Over the last 7 years, the entire line has been sliding down, and Jettas now start around $16k. Unfortunately, to make the economics work, its come at the expense of the interiors, and every outlet that has been reviewing cars has been calling VW out on it. But at the same time, VW's market share has been steadily increasing, despite the "cheaper" interiors.
Aside from fuel, tires, and oil, I feel like I've been through a ton with my Golf. Just put a new control arm, bushings, and ball joint this past weekend. I had some turbo internals blow back in November that resulted in a new turbo and a handful of pipes being thrown in. Last year my "in-tank lifter pump" failed. The turbo and lifter pump both took 4 trips to the dealership to sniff out and resolve, with bills over $1k range.
The factory bushings on the BEW models were crap. Mine were squeaky when I got it used (2 years old) and I immediately replaced them with the A4 bushings.
The interior on all VWs is cheapish. It's a VW not an Audi. Some things are really terrible, like the rubber coating on everything that rubs off after a while, but I looked at a 2012 Jetta and thought the interior was pretty nice.
FYI that 14.5 gal tank is actually 15.5 gal. :-)
Max mileage I've gotten on a full tank was just under 700 miles. On one tank.
I might get mine painted and the random dents removed and the interior redone so I can keep it longer. I'd rather have something bigger ..and nicer... but while the kids are small it fills the bill for my driving.
I get most stuff from German Auto Parts (http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen). Much cheaper that the OEM bits, and often better parts too!
Quote from: The Mad King Pepe' on March 05, 2012, 08:24:41 AM
I get most stuff from German Auto Parts (http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen). Much cheaper that the OEM bits, and often better parts too!
for the TDI, use idparts.com
they only do diesel stuff
Oh, Roger... 2010 Audi A3 TDI ($28900): http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/2876980291.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/2876980291.html) [evil]
Quote from: ducatiz on March 05, 2012, 08:11:00 AM
The factory bushings on the BEW models were crap. Mine were squeaky when I got it used (2 years old) and I immediately replaced them with the A4 bushings.
You talking swaybar bushings or control arm bushings? Had a shop take care of the CA bushings yesterday, and have new sway bar bushings ready for a decent day and some free time this spring.
In any case, guess I should be happy to have gotten 125k out of them.
I do vent when I fill, but have yet to cram more than 14.5 into it in a single go. Just over 600mi is my best tank, but I've been seeing better mileage now that I've lowered my cruising speed from 80 to 70.
Another +1 for idparts.com. Now that I work in NH again, I can get parts basically next day with UPS ground, without having to pay sales tax [thumbsup]
Quote from: bevel on March 05, 2012, 08:40:20 AM
You talking swaybar bushings or control arm bushings? Had a shop take care of the CA bushings yesterday, and have new sway bar bushings ready for a decent day and some free time this spring.
In any case, guess I should be happy to have gotten 125k out of them.
I do vent when I fill, but have yet to cram more than 14.5 into it in a single go. Just over 600mi is my best tank, but I've been seeing better mileage now that I've lowered my cruising speed from 80 to 70.
Another +1 for idparts.com. Now that I work in NH again, I can get parts basically next day with UPS ground, without having to pay sales tax [thumbsup]
control arm. i did the sway bar bushes as well.
once you go over about 65 in the Golf you're pushing against the wind. under 65-70 and you're just aerodynamic enough to pull off about 50 mpg
Quote from: ducatiz on March 05, 2012, 08:11:00 AM
The interior on all VWs is cheapish. It's a VW not an Audi. Some things are really terrible, like the rubber coating on everything that rubs off after a while, but I looked at a 2012 Jetta and thought the interior was pretty nice.
Sometimes when I'm driving mine (07 rabbit) I feel like it's kinda cheap. But then if you look at other cars in the same price range (15-20k), the VW interiors are amazing. maybe not all the bells and whistles (ie, no nav), but the dash is soft touch, and everything feels solid...not bendy like some of the other cars I've looked at (talking to you hyundai sonata ;)). Though, the new jettas have evened the playing field, and not in a good way....
Quote from: bevel on March 05, 2012, 08:00:22 AM
Aside from fuel, tires, and oil, I feel like I've been through a ton with my Golf. Just put a new control arm, bushings, and ball joint this past weekend. I had some turbo internals blow back in November that resulted in a new turbo and a handful of pipes being thrown in. Last year my "in-tank lifter pump" failed. The turbo and lifter pump both took 4 trips to the dealership to sniff out and resolve, with bills over $1k range.
I'm at 123k on mine, and it's trouble free still. The other two we own have been the same way. Mine is a gasser though, not TDI. The TDI in the family is pretty new, so we'll se how that goes. I've been super impressed with VWs....haven't seen any of the gremlins other people talk about...I'm not sure why mine are different...
Now my '65 bug...all that damn thing knows is trouble....hahahaha
It may help when I get all the parts out of the boxes and back on the damn car, though [laugh]
I mean, looking back and aggregating everything together, it feels like a lot of work, but I'm also up to 126k on the clock. In the end, its only taken about $3k aside from regular maintenance to keep her on the road. I'm just hoping that I'm at the tail end of a cycle and won't see any more troubles until after my next timing belt.
Quote from: The Mad King Pepe' on March 05, 2012, 08:33:42 AM
Oh, Roger... 2010 Audi A3 TDI ($28900): http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/2876980291.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/2876980291.html) [evil]
Well thanks there, Pepe! Sweet A3!
The wife has something against wagons.....she wants a sedan. She drove an SE TDI and sat in an SEL Premium gasser. She wants the SEL TDI, aye aye aye!
I will never ever buy a VW again. My 2000 VW Passat has always had electrical problems and i know friends that had VW with similar issues. Expensive to fix VW's whenever something goes bad.
I will tell you what my rider friend and mechanic says - Buy Toyota or Honda.
Kia, Hyundai are nothing but headache garbage according to him. He used to work in Kia dealership. They used to stock tranny a lot because lots of the cars would have tranny problem. They got to do so many that he could replace it instead of 3 hours in like 1 hour and half. They are just horrible.
He was telling me that in about 3 or 4 years from now, the GM success will come back to bite. All the parts for GM are coming from cheap Korean factory and that is why they are cheap now and the company making money.
Hopefully you knowledgable members hear can chime in and clarify this points for me.
Quote from: ab on March 05, 2012, 05:54:54 PM
I will never ever buy a VW again. My 2000 VW Passat has always had electrical problems and i know friends that had VW with similar issues. Expensive to fix VW's whenever something goes bad.
I will tell you what my rider friend and mechanic says - Buy Toyota or Honda.
Kia, Hyundai are nothing but headache garbage according to him. He used to work in Kia dealership. They used to stock tranny a lot because lots of the cars would have tranny problem. They got to do so many that he could replace it instead of 3 hours in like 1 hour and half. They are just horrible.
He was telling me that in about 3 or 4 years from now, the GM success will come back to bite. All the parts for GM are coming from cheap Korean factory and that is why they are cheap now and the company making money.
Hopefully you knowledgable members hear can chime in and clarify this points for me.
Five VWs and now an Audi, hardly a problem with any of them. My friend's 92 GTI didn't make it to 400K miles on the original powertrain. A crash killed it.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 05, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Well thanks there, Pepe! Sweet A3!
The wife has something against wagons.....she wants a sedan. She drove an SE TDI and sat in an SEL Premium gasser. She wants the SEL TDI, aye aye aye!
but, but, but.... you can'd do this with a sedan!!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G4aaaFkLyuw/SAbFKpIHC5I/AAAAAAAAAEk/1m7_8mEMsUc/s800/01.jpg)
unpacked and assembled:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h8KidoJ7cAU/SAbBJ5IHC2I/AAAAAAAAAEE/kflwq32XOaw/s800/08.jpg)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: ab on March 05, 2012, 05:54:54 PM
I will never ever buy a VW again. My 2000 VW Passat has always had electrical problems and i know friends that had VW with similar issues. Expensive to fix VW's whenever something goes bad.
It's only expensive if you decide to buy original VW parts. Sites like germanautoparts.com are really helpful.
I've had a fair amount of things to fix on my '94 Golf. But it's so much easier than working on most Japanese cars (lot more space in the engine bay).
Case in point: putting in a new front engine mount on my golf required moving the power steering hose. 8)
The same thing on my friend's Accord required (emptying and) moving the radiator and related bits, and even then it was a tight fit... [bang]
IMO the Subaru Legacy is far superior car and depending on where you live is more practical. The gas mileage is not quite as good but if you purchase the gt version the performance makes up for it.
Quote from: ab on March 05, 2012, 05:54:54 PM
I will never ever buy a VW again. My 2000 VW Passat has always had electrical problems and i know friends that had VW with similar issues. Expensive to fix VW's whenever something goes bad.
I will tell you what my rider friend and mechanic says - Buy Toyota or Honda.
Kia, Hyundai are nothing but headache garbage according to him. He used to work in Kia dealership. They used to stock tranny a lot because lots of the cars would have tranny problem. They got to do so many that he could replace it instead of 3 hours in like 1 hour and half. They are just horrible.
He was telling me that in about 3 or 4 years from now, the GM success will come back to bite. All the parts for GM are coming from cheap Korean factory and that is why they are cheap now and the company making money.
Hopefully you knowledgable members hear can chime in and clarify this points for me.
I'm on my second VW post 2000 and have had zero issues, over 300k miles together.
My wife's 2011 Kia Sorento is excellent. They build them in Georgia, and Kia/Hyundai has massively changed and retooled since 2008 or so. The Kia Sorento has repeatedly gotten award after award.
We have 30K + miles on it now (we bought one of the first ones made) and it has proven to be an excellent purchase.
GM? You mean that company that just shut down a line because they can't sell their cars? Meh.
I don't know where your mechanic gets his information, but the parts GM is getting from Mando of Korea are 1000% better quality than the Brazilian sourced parts they were getting until 2010.
Hyundai has nearly eaten Toyota's lunch worldwide for a reason.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 04, 2012, 04:35:35 PM
The Sonata and Optima are loaded with bells and whistles. The turbo versions acceleration was surprisingly nice, albeit with a premium fueled requirement. Paddle shifters, really?
The vws interior is straightforward, understated and nice.
It might be my biast opinion but Korean cars entered the market to be the cheapest option to the Jap/Eu/American cars, now their prices match/exceed the prices of Japanese and American cars, while they do not have the history of long term reliability as more established cars.
Another reason that fuels my doubts about Korean cars is that a lot of models has been direct copies of other cars, which I can point to a few:
Hyudai Sonata: Jaguar S type Look.
Hyundai Sonata: Honda Accord Look.
.......
and then there is a ridiculous Kia that looks like a chinese replica of a Mercedes...
Oh well everybody has their own opinions...
I would go with an Accord or TDI, you can expect nicer and quieter interior from them. I have been a Toyota fan all my life but Toyota plays is VERY cheap when it comes to the cars interior.
Quote from: ab on March 05, 2012, 05:54:54 PM
I will never ever buy a VW again. My 2000 VW Passat has always had electrical problems and i know friends that had VW with similar issues. Expensive to fix VW's whenever something goes bad.
I will tell you what my rider friend and mechanic says - Buy Toyota or Honda.
Kia, Hyundai are nothing but headache garbage according to him. He used to work in Kia dealership. They used to stock tranny a lot because lots of the cars would have tranny problem. They got to do so many that he could replace it instead of 3 hours in like 1 hour and half. They are just horrible.
He was telling me that in about 3 or 4 years from now, the GM success will come back to bite. All the parts for GM are coming from cheap Korean factory and that is why they are cheap now and the company making money.
Hopefully you knowledgable members hear can chime in and clarify this points for me.
You never see a Kia/Hyudai used with more than 200K miles in them, I have had friends with Tranny problems with Hyudais, another with drivetrain problem after a few sessions of offroading....
Quote from: DucatiKabul on March 06, 2012, 09:52:45 AM
It might be my biast opinion but Korean cars entered the market to be the cheapest option to the Jap/Eu/American cars, now their prices match/exceed the prices of Japanese and American cars, while they do not have the history of long term reliability as more established cars.
So... they are doing the same thing that Toyota did..
Or am I the only person who had Toyota Carina.. in 1970... ? (well, my parents did...)
Korean makers have indeed tried to "borrow" from established designs.
Kia "stole" the design director from Audi. No wonder the current model of Kias look like Audis...
I hear they are good cars, and I would be tempted by the diesel (cue Jeremy Clarkson's voice).
But I think they are just boring/bland looking. Sad that the Hyundai Sonata has much better lines than a VW.
Quote from: Autostrada Pilot on March 06, 2012, 12:20:51 PM
I hear they are good cars, and I would be tempted by the diesel (cue Jeremy Clarkson's voice).
But I think they are just boring/bland looking. Sad that the Hyundai Sonata has much better lines than a VW.
VW has tried to play catchup with Toyota, esp in the US. That means they are appealing to people who think a car is essentially a kitchen appliance (hence, the Camry's success) and care more about price and efficiency than styling and performance. When the new Jetta came out, my first reaction was that it looked like a Camry.
Hyundai and Kia have tried a dual route -- building performance (i.e. Genesis) and interesting looks. I prefer Kia's less angular approach (i.e. Kia Optima vs Hyundai Sonata) but they have the same engines for the most part.
If only Hyundai would bring their diesels to the USA. They would smoke the competition. :-)
http://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/mid-sized-cars/optima/specification/technical-specification.aspx (http://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/mid-sized-cars/optima/specification/technical-specification.aspx)
Tracking down a Passat.....closest one that the Mrs likes is in freakin Jersey!
Yesterday, the d-bag salesman said the owner of his dealership insists that all cars go out with pin stripes and door edge guards.........to the tune of $995!
I howled with laughter right in his ear!
He called me today to let me know they are making a special exception since I'm coming from MD.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 06, 2012, 01:24:25 PM
Tracking down a Passat.....closest one that the Mrs likes is in freakin Jersey!
Yesterday, the d-bag salesman said the owner of his dealership insists that all cars go out with pin stripes and door edge guards.........to the tune of $995!
I howled with laughter right in his ear!
He called me today to let me know they are making a special exception since I'm coming from MD.
that's such garbage. so typical.
Would be awesome if you found another one in a dealer few blocks from them.. better price and pass by to gloat... hate db dealers.. I hope I can find a durango from a user on a forum im on..
Quote from: The Mad King Pepe' on March 06, 2012, 06:11:32 AM
but, but, but.... you can'd do this with a sedan!!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G4aaaFkLyuw/SAbFKpIHC5I/AAAAAAAAAEk/1m7_8mEMsUc/s800/01.jpg)
unpacked and assembled:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h8KidoJ7cAU/SAbBJ5IHC2I/AAAAAAAAAEE/kflwq32XOaw/s800/08.jpg)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
It's only expensive if you decide to buy original VW parts. Sites like germanautoparts.com are really helpful.
I've had a fair amount of things to fix on my '94 Golf. But it's so much easier than working on most Japanese cars (lot more space in the engine bay).
Case in point: putting in a new front engine mount on my golf required moving the power steering hose. 8)
The same thing on my friend's Accord required (emptying and) moving the radiator and related bits, and even then it was a tight fit... [bang]
That's what the Avalanche is for!
Quick question. Why does VW say no roof racks on the Passat Sedan? How about a trailer hitch?
VW doesn't have one but Thule makes on i think
I read somewhere that a roof rack isn't recommended on the sedan.
I saw a Passat tdi wagon today......had diplomat plates. I gave her the thumbs up! Wish they were available here in the U S of A.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 06, 2012, 01:24:25 PM
Tracking down a Passat.....closest one that the Mrs likes is in freakin Jersey!
I bought my VW in Manchester, NH and the dealer had to send runners down to southwestern CT to get it for me.
If they want to sell the car to you, it'll be without the pinstripes and door guards, and they'll send someone to get it from Jersey.
My local dealer can't get one until late April for some reason.
Salesman was very nice and we wanted to give him first shot. I told him we are ready to do this.
He did a local search and couldn't find one. We did our own search and 3 popped up within 200 miles. When I let him know we found 3, he said, "if you can find one, buy it".
I was very surprised by his response.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 06, 2012, 07:24:34 PM
My local dealer can't get one until late April for some reason.
Salesman was very nice and we wanted to give him first shot. I told him we are ready to do this.
He did a local search and couldn't find one. We did our own search and 3 popped up within 200 miles. When I let him know we found 3, he said, "if you can find one, buy it".
I was very surprised by his response.
It's possible they don't have a diesel mechanic on staff...
alternatively, the TDIs sell so well that dealers don't want to give them up.
Did you call any of the VA dealers?
Roof Rack for the 2012 Passat:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5433907-Roof-Rack/page2&s=c3cf8e1e6dfddca70861952c9c4c0438 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5433907-Roof-Rack/page2&s=c3cf8e1e6dfddca70861952c9c4c0438)
So Yakima and Thule are making them.
Manual says no roof racks, will cause roof damage.
Passat scored the highest in the "roof crush test"
Some dealers are installing the aftermarket racks.
No clue what the deal is.
I did. There was one at Stohlmans in Vienna that was sold a couple days before and one in Staunton VA that was the wrong color.
We have a deposit don the one in PA, not Jersey........man that dealer installed rhetoric leaves a bad taste in my mouth......paying msrp is painful enough!
So instead of a roof rack, I'm thinking trailer hitch with a folding hitch rack and hitch mounted bike rack.
The trunk is surprisingly big so everyday stuff should stow nicely.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 06, 2012, 07:24:34 PM
My local dealer can't get one until late April for some reason.
Salesman was very nice and we wanted to give him first shot. I told him we are ready to do this.
He did a local search and couldn't find one. We did our own search and 3 popped up within 200 miles. When I let him know we found 3, he said, "if you can find one, buy it".
I was very surprised by his response.
we had a dealer try to do a transfer for us (TDI sportwagen), and when he called the other dealership that had one, they told him "no!" [laugh]
I think he was pretty embarrased, as we were sitting in his office when it happend. Felt bad for the guy. I think the other dealership was marking them up, and knew they were going to get more money than if they transfered the car. Kinda douche-y thing for them to do.
Quote from: ducatiz on March 06, 2012, 12:31:29 PM
VW has tried to play catchup with Toyota, esp in the US. That means they are appealing to people who think a car is essentially a kitchen appliance (hence, the Camry's success) and care more about price and efficiency than styling and performance. When the new Jetta came out, my first reaction was that it looked like a Camry.
Hyundai and Kia have tried a dual route -- building performance (i.e. Genesis) and interesting looks. I prefer Kia's less angular approach (i.e. Kia Optima vs Hyundai Sonata) but they have the same engines for the most part.
I love the looks of the new Optima, but couldn't convince the wife. She still thinks of the Kias of 10 years ago...and I don't know that I blame her. I mean, they were crap....cheap...but crap.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 07, 2012, 06:31:11 AM
So instead of a roof rack, I'm thinking trailer hitch with a folding hitch rack and hitch mounted bike rack.
The trunk is surprisingly big so everyday stuff should stow nicely.
we put a rack on the rabbit and the jetta...never have had an issue
Quote from: Le Pirate on March 07, 2012, 06:41:58 AMI love the looks of the new Optima, but couldn't convince the wife. She still thinks of the Kias of 10 years ago...and I don't know that I blame her. I mean, they were crap....cheap...but crap.
Take her to test drive one. They are exceptional. Our dealer gave us a "money back guarantee" for our Sorento for 6 months. That was a huge leap of faith for them, and he said he's not had a single one returned.
Quote
we put a rack on the rabbit and the jetta...never have had an issue
The 2012 passat doesn't have the pillar holes that the older models do. My '05 Golf has them but the 2012 Passat doesn't No idea why.
My guess is that the roof is fine for one of the aftermarket racks. The roof crush test puts over 20k lbs of weight on the car.
VW extended warranty strategy?
I have a general idea of what it will cost. I read about a dealer in Alabama that sells them for $100 over cost. Plan is to go in with a quote from Alabama and see if PA will match it.
I also read that if I buy it before driving the car off the lot, there's no tax.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 07, 2012, 09:15:57 AM
VW extended warranty strategy?
I have a general idea of what it will cost. I read about a dealer in Alabama that sells them for $100 over cost. Plan is to go in with a quote from Alabama and see if PA will match it.
I also read that if I buy it before driving the car off the lot, there's no tax.
Yes, there is no tax but when you go to register it at the DMV in MD, the sales form will say no sales tax paid and they happily will charge you sales tax.
Dealership is handling the tax and tag transfer. I was referring to tax on the warranty itself.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 07, 2012, 09:33:53 AM
Dealership is handling the tax and tag transfer. I was referring to tax on the warranty itself.
aha!
Quote from: ducatiz on March 07, 2012, 06:49:08 AM
Take her to test drive one. They are exceptional. Our dealer gave us a "money back guarantee" for our Sorento for 6 months. That was a huge leap of faith for them, and he said he's not had a single one returned.
The 2012 passat doesn't have the pillar holes that the older models do. My '05 Golf has them but the 2012 Passat doesn't No idea why.
My guess is that the roof is fine for one of the aftermarket racks. The roof crush test puts over 20k lbs of weight on the car.
Couldn't get her to go to the Kia dealer. We had test drove the sonota and all she did was complain about how cheap the interior was the whole time [laugh]. I'm assuming she figured the Kia would be worse...IDK
as for the roof rack, I should say...We have a yakima rack, as neither of our cars have the pillar holes either. These use a clamp that attches inside the door frame, and on the rabbit, clamps between the window and the roof on the rear (no door frame, as it's a 2 door).
Never had and issue with the yakima rack
Picking up the Passat on Saturday morning! Any break in tips?
Quote from: rgramjet on March 08, 2012, 06:27:33 PM
Picking up the Passat on Saturday morning! Any break in tips?
only use the required approved oil.
As with any new driveline, avoid constant speed/load, in other words, stay off the slab. As ducatiz said, approved oil only. Buy a quart or 2 of oil that meet the latest VW 507 spec just in case since new engines can consume oil. Needless to say, in a pinch any oil is better than none.
and DO NOT ever put gas in it, not even a drop
and as an added precaution, keep all your fuel receipts just in case the station you got your fuel from has contamination and causes you problems
the big fuel pump is nothing to trifle with
Not that it matters now, but replace the fuel filter every fall. It has a drain function for the water trap and you're supposed to drain it once a year, but I just replace it, water and all.
I write in paint pen on the filter the mileage of the change, but that's me. I do that on the oil filtre too but the VWs use a paper cartridge.
I have a 2010 Jetta TDI with 32K on it, and i love it! Have not had any problems so far. 43-54 MPG, might just be the best VW that i have ever owned. Only con is not being able to get into the HOV lane.... [bang]
Quote from: ducatiz on March 08, 2012, 06:34:57 PM
only use the required approved oil.
^This! Serious! Pay attention!
Using the proper oil is why my 2.5L VW engine is running great, and everyone else complains about replacing theirs every 40k miles. You have to use the right DAMN oil. I swear, no one reads their manuals anymore (including the VW dealership in Wichita Falls, TX [bang])
Quote from: Le Pirate on March 09, 2012, 08:23:04 AM
^This! Serious! Pay attention!
Using the proper oil is why my 2.5L VW engine is running great, and everyone else complains about replacing theirs every 40k miles. You have to use the right DAMN oil. I swear, no one reads their manuals anymore (including the VW dealership in Wichita Falls, TX [bang])
the TDIs have a much narrower list of oils.
The 2005 BEW PD engines only have like 3 oils available in the US approved by VW. Big fat warning sticker on the engine too.
mentioned already but worth mentioning again http://www.idparts.com (http://www.idparts.com) has all the correct oil and filters
if you do intend on doing your own fuel filter changes, definitely buy the Ross Tech cable so you can use the software (lots of other fun things you can change about the car with it ;D )
You do not want to run the big pump dry, with the software it's easy to run the electric pumps a few times before starting the car. You can quite easily hear when all the air is out and the filter and lines are just full of nice stinky, slippery diesel again.
Also, don't get too worried over the tone of our posts, I find the car very easy to work on. [thumbsup]
Also of note, I run a splash of the Stanadyne fuel additive in every tank. This is a debatable practice, so read up on some forums before you decide whether or not to.
Drove it home from PA today! Fun car, sporty ride compared to an Avalanche and Escalade ESV. I thought the electric steering would be weird.....it took a little getting used to but now I like it.
Of course, on our way to PA, I got a call from Lindsey VW saying they had two SEL tdis on the lot. They were ordered and the buyers backed out. I listened to their pricing and it was a couple hundred dollars less. The people in PA were very nice and gave a good deal from the get go so we stuck with them.
So, current thoughts?
I noticed on the way home today that diesel is $.25 a gallon cheaper than 93 octane.
Even if diesel goes up $5/gallon, I'm still happy to go 80-100 miles for $10. To drive 90 miles in my Avalanche, its 6 gallons of gas. Ouch.
Tri-State Fuel Economy Championship Results
http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.php?p=163680&postcount=15 (http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.php?p=163680&postcount=15)
Best of the cars: Jonathan Bartlett, 1998 VW Jetta TDI diesel - 79.38 mpg
Followed closely by: Mike Kamm, 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R - 76.12 mpg (tho it looks like Hannibal Lecter's car! [laugh])
Quote from: The Mad King Pepe' on March 19, 2012, 07:15:11 AM
Tri-State Fuel Economy Championship Results
http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.php?p=163680&postcount=15 (http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.php?p=163680&postcount=15)
Best of the cars: Jonathan Bartlett, 1998 VW Jetta TDI diesel - 79.38 mpg
Followed closely by: Mike Kamm, 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R - 76.12 mpg (tho it looks like Hannibal Lecter's car! [laugh])
It can be done -- squelch down the injectors so they are spitting a minimum of fuel. you end up with about 40hp.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/ (http://ecomodder.com/forum/)
Some crazy stuff on there..
All I can say about the new Jetta/Passat is that the styling took a wrong turn. I had a 2007 Passat and loved everything about it. The styling on the new ones looks square and cheap...
And whoever said that the engine compartments on VW's are huge has never popped the hood on a Touareg V8 or the TT5.0 Diesel...
Quote from: NAKID on March 19, 2012, 06:58:15 PM
All I can say about the new Jetta/Passat is that the styling took a wrong turn. The styling on the new ones looks square and cheap...
This.
Quote from: NAKID on March 19, 2012, 06:58:15 PM
All I can say about the new Jetta/Passat is that the styling took a wrong turn. I had a 2007 Passat and loved everything about it. The styling on the new ones looks square and cheap...
and that cheapness they downgraded to is exactly why they are selling now....the 'Murican consumer who has only looked at XYZ before, is looking at the VW now due to the lowered pricepoint and is willing to sacrifice that which the loyal VW customer has become accustomed to as the standard...
The Passat is the first VW I've owned. Guess I don't know what I'm missing.
Other than lack of rear vents, paddle shifters or heated rear seats, trying to think of where the term "cheap" is applicable. Other than cost to drive!
Quote from: rgramjet on March 20, 2012, 04:38:49 AM
The Passat is the first VW I've owned. Guess I don't know what I'm missing.
Other than lack of rear vents, paddle shifters or heated rear seats, trying to think of where the term "cheap" is applicable. Other than cost to drive!
Not sure about the Passat, but you'd see the difference between the current Jetta and my Golf. The dash layout is the same but the materials are different and other little details.
Quote from: rgramjet on March 20, 2012, 04:38:49 AM
The Passat is the first VW I've owned. Guess I don't know what I'm missing.
and that is exactly why VW is trying to appeal to customers outside the usual VW customer....because they have this exact feeling....if you have no clue what used to be, then you aren't the wiser and still a happy camper...
Quote from: zooom on March 20, 2012, 05:13:39 AM
and that is exactly why VW is trying to appeal to customers outside the usual VW customer....because they have this exact feeling....if you have no clue what used to be, then you aren't the wiser and still a happy camper...
Exactly.
They conformed to the rest of the playing field. Guess in the end, it's all about making money...not catering to the fan base.
That said, no body else is making diesel cars (at a low-med price point). I can't afford a e-class Merc, so VW it is...
Quote from: Le Pirate on March 20, 2012, 08:32:58 AM
That said, no body else is making diesel cars (at a low-med price point). I can't afford a e-class Merc, so VW it is...
If you can find one, the TDI A3 isn't horribly priced. I have a gas version and love it. It's like driving a go-cart with a really nice interior. And the forthcoming 2-door version is loaded with new tech:
http://3d-car-shows.com/2012/networked-mobility-audi-at-cebit-2/ (http://3d-car-shows.com/2012/networked-mobility-audi-at-cebit-2/)
I'm skipping over the Jetta completely when it comes to my next car. Either going to be a Passat (if the interiors stay better than the Jetta), or upgrading to an Audi A3 or A4 (whatever they get the TDI engines into by then).
Of course, this is all dependent on my current Golf falling apart, of course [thumbsup]
First fill up, 33.3 mpg..........90% in town. Looking forward to seeing what it'll do on a long trip!
Here's what I got from home to Deal's Gap
doublechecking against fuel bought my tip computer is actually accurate, my speedo is also dead on compared to my GPS. Guess I got a good one. [thumbsup]
BTW notice something odd about the speedo?
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a295/giacco/PAtoNC_mileage.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a295/giacco/PAtoNC_mpg.jpg)
[cheeky]
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a295/giacco/ridiculous_mpg.jpg)
What year Golf is that from?? 63.8 mpg?
What was your average speed? I get around 50 on the highway but I rarely drive under 70
Quote from: lethe on March 28, 2012, 01:04:24 AM
~~~SNIP~~~
BTW notice something odd about the speedo?
[~~~SNIP~~~
It reads to a speed far higher than the car could possibly go? [laugh]
Nonlinear, they've condensed the useless section.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 28, 2012, 09:19:50 AM
Nonlinear, they've condensed the useless section.
you know that's just a challenge to see how "useless" it really is.. [evil]
Quote from: derby on March 28, 2012, 09:34:20 AM
you know that's just a challenge to see how "useless" it really is.. [evil]
Of course! [evil]
No point in having a brand new car and not knowing how fast it goes.
Quote from: ducatiz on March 28, 2012, 05:47:21 AM
What year Golf is that from?? 63.8 mpg?
What was your average speed? I get around 50 on the highway but I rarely drive under 70
2011
The 63 was a silly one, it was from Robbinsville to the base of the hill by "Fugitive" dam while I was down there. The road is pretty much flat as it follows the river through there and I was driving very leisurely. It's the highest average number I ever saw so I had to take a pic. [laugh]
Quote from: lethe on March 28, 2012, 05:13:54 PM
It's the highest average number I ever saw so I had to take a pic. [laugh]
While driving at that...
Quote from: derby on March 28, 2012, 09:34:20 AM
you know that's just a challenge to see how "useless" it really is.. [evil]
meh, it pulls really well to the triple digits but the acceleration drops off pretty quick after that.
I've probably seen around 120.
The GTI we used to have hit 140 despite the fact there is supposed to be a 130 limiter.
Ours was an early model '06, maybe the ecu was flashed differently?
Quote from: NAKID on March 28, 2012, 05:17:12 PM
While driving at that...
yeah just poking along
but 50 is pretty easy just driving normal, pretty much what I get daily, the city portion drops my daily average to around 48 but I can't pregnant dog about that. Plus the torque makes these things fun squirting through holes in the traffic in the city.
Just giving you a little shit. I think I did the same thing when my 240sx rolled 100k....
Quote from: NAKID on March 28, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
Just giving you a little shit. I think I did the same thing when my 240sx rolled 100k....
took a pic of the odometer in the previous car at 222222 [laugh]
Quote from: lethe on March 28, 2012, 05:13:54 PM
2011
The 63 was a silly one, it was from Robbinsville to the base of the hill by "Fugitive" dam while I was down there. The road is pretty much flat as it follows the river through there and I was driving very leisurely. It's the highest average number I ever saw so I had to take a pic. [laugh]
ah.
my 05 does not have a trip computer like that so i have to actually count miles and gallons and do math n stuff
My 05 runs out of steam at 106 :(
And now you guys have me thinking I've got something terribly wrong with my TDI. I slowed down from 70 to 65 on the highway, and saw an impressive 4mpg bump - up to 40mpg [bang]
Quote from: bevel on March 29, 2012, 09:12:30 AM
My 05 runs out of steam at 106 :(
And now you guys have me thinking I've got something terribly wrong with my TDI. I slowed down from 70 to 65 on the highway, and saw an impressive 4mpg bump - up to 40mpg [bang]
1. Put some cleaner in the tank for the injectors. Power Service is good, and you really can't put too much in.
2. Check the camshaft. Your PD engine has issues with the cam lobes wearing out.
3. Check compression.
When was the last time you changed the fuel filter? When I do mine (yearly) I fill it with Power Service so the injectors get a concentrated dose. Some folks will actually set up a separate feed line and run the engine off Power Service cleaner for a minute or two.
Quote from: ducatiz on March 29, 2012, 09:17:29 AM
1. Put some cleaner in the tank for the injectors. Power Service is good, and you really can't put too much in.
2. Check the camshaft. Your PD engine has issues with the cam lobes wearing out.
3. Check compression.
When was the last time you changed the fuel filter? When I do mine (yearly) I fill it with Power Service so the injectors get a concentrated dose. Some folks will actually set up a separate feed line and run the engine off Power Service cleaner for a minute or two.
Haven't ever put in an injector cleaner, and it has been a while on the fuel filter...but sounds like a start. Thanks for the tips Tiz [thumbsup]
Quote from: bevel on March 29, 2012, 09:26:00 AM
Haven't ever put in an injector cleaner, and it has been a while on the fuel filter...but sounds like a start. Thanks for the tips Tiz [thumbsup]
yeah, you should replace that fuel filter every year regardless of mileage. it has a moisture trap in the bottom. it's drainable, but it basically keeps your fuel running thru crap and if it gets cold by you, that trap can FREEZE and you're done.
do the power service clean before you change the filter. i might even run a full bottle (16 oz?) in a full 15 gal tank instead of the instructions and when you've gotten to about half the tank, change the fuel filter and fill it up with power service.
the filters are easy to swap, just put out some rags to catch the overflow. when you take the QD connectors off there will be a little come out but not much. don't lose the wire clips.
(http://media.ruralking.com/image.php?sku=090180192&nsize=300)
Quote from: ducatiz on March 29, 2012, 06:11:09 AM
ah.
my 05 does not have a trip computer like that so i have to actually count miles and gallons and do math n stuff
but then you need to carry a calculator with you! :o
[cheeky]
Quote from: lethe on March 29, 2012, 02:33:51 PM
but then you need to carry a calculator with you! :o
[cheeky]
nah
(http://www.tcf.ua.edu/AZ/SlideRule.jpg)
Quote from: ducatiz on March 29, 2012, 03:31:42 PM
nah
(http://www.tcf.ua.edu/AZ/SlideRule.jpg)
that looks even harder
bet you can't build a birdhouse using that for measuring your cuts [cheeky]
Just got back from a trip to Orlando (insert bad driver, huge crowd, wtf would I do that to myself rant here).
Averaged 39.4mpg, regularly drove 80mph, ac on, two adults, three kiddos and the trunk was freakin FULL! Everyone was comfortable and I have no complaints.
Oh yeah, only 3 fill ups the entire trip down and back. Love it!
we drove to bodymore last weekend in my golf. i filled up to the neck and then again when returning. 52 MPG. two adults two kids and various other stuff in the back.
Seriously considering a new TDI Golf in the near future, as my commute is going to triple with the new job. My local VW dealer let me borrow one over night to try out, and while I was impressed with it, I noticed the seats were not too kind to my lower back. Kind of wish the lumber support was a tad lower in that car...
Quote from: DRKWNG on April 08, 2012, 02:44:11 PM
Seriously considering a new TDI Golf in the near future, as my commute is going to triple with the new job. My local VW dealer let me borrow one over night to try out, and while I was impressed with it, I noticed the seats were not too kind to my lower back. Kind of wish the lumber support was a tad lower in that car...
Seems fine in mine.
Wonder if they changed anything about the seats.
Quote from: DRKWNG on April 08, 2012, 02:44:11 PM
Seriously considering a new TDI Golf in the near future, as my commute is going to triple with the new job. My local VW dealer let me borrow one over night to try out, and while I was impressed with it, I noticed the seats were not too kind to my lower back. Kind of wish the lumber support was a tad lower in that car...
mine is so so. i think if you're over a certain height you're sol. maybe need to add one of those back supports with my doughnut pillow
The seats in my Mk IV GTI are fine as well. The only issue I really had with the ones in the TDI was that the lumber support was to high, and not really focused on my lower back. Odd, as the seats in a Wrangler didn't bother me at all.
I'm 6'3" and found the seats very comfortable. There is an adjustment "sweet spot" that took a little while to find.
It would be nice if the steering wheel would telescope 2" more towards the drivers seat. Reaching forward that short distance, gets old after 7 hours straight.