Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Racing & Trackdays => Topic started by: Jester on March 23, 2012, 10:20:59 AM

Title: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Jester on March 23, 2012, 10:20:59 AM
DePuniet finishes the first day .1 behind Rossi and ahead of non CRT bikes.  Hah!   ;D

Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zooom on March 23, 2012, 10:47:12 AM
so...since you didn't post the times...

Pos Rider Team Bike Time Diff Prev.
1 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Honda 1:39.146     
2 Jorge Lorenzo Factory Yamaha Yamaha 1:39.419 0.273 0.273
3 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Honda 1:39.579 0.433 0.160
4 Ben Spies Factory Yamaha Yamaha 1:39.984 0.838 0.405
5 Cal Crutchlow Monster Tech 3 Yamaha 1:40.130 0.984 0.146
6 Nicky Hayden Ducati Factory Ducati 1:40.512 1.366 0.382
7 Alvaro Bautista San Carlo Gresini Honda 1:40.545 1.399 0.033
8 Andrea Dovizioso Monster Tech 3 Yamaha 1:40.665 1.519 0.120
9 Valentino Rossi Ducati Factory Ducati 1:40.920 1.774 0.255
10 Stefan Bradl LCR Honda Honda 1:40.983 1.837 0.063
11 Randy de Puniet Power Electronics Aspar Aprilia ART 1:41.015 1.869 0.032
12 Hector Barbera Pramac Ducati 1:41.388 2.242 0.373
13 Karel Abraham Cardion AB Ducati 1:41.603 2.457 0.215
14 Aleix Espargaro Power Electronics Aspar Aprilia ART 1:42.293 3.147 0.690
15 Franco Battaini Ducati Test Team Ducati 1:42.403 3.257 0.110
16 Colin Edwards NGM Mobile Forward Suter BMW 1:42.462 3.316 0.059
17 Michele Pirro San Carlo Gresini FTR Honda 1:42.655 3.509 0.193
18 Danilo Petrucci IODA Racing IODA Aprilia 1:42.750 3.604 0.095
19 Mattia Pasini Speed Master Aprilia ART 1:43.006 3.860 0.256
20 Yonny Hernandez Avintia Racing FTR Kawasaki 1:43.437 4.291 0.431
21 James Ellison PBM UK Aprilia ART 1:43.477 4.331 0.040
22 Ivan Silva Avintia Racing FTR Kawasaki 1:44.293 5.147 0.816
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zooom on March 23, 2012, 12:36:06 PM
Lorenzo led most of the day until Stoner decided to set his phaser to stun. Pedrosa did just a few laps in the 1:39s but did them none the less.

Probably the most admirable lap on the sheet? Hayden. the lap time is okay, but he did an astounding 77 laps. Isn't he supposed to be hurt?

Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: duccarlos on March 23, 2012, 01:00:33 PM
Probably trying to put in as many laps as possible to get in shape. Did he try to do it at race pace? Good to see the Yammies up there.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: fastwin on March 24, 2012, 07:44:32 AM
Hayden's never been anything but a work horse. And I mean that in a good way. [thumbsup] [Dolph] [popcorn] He doesn't pull into the pits mid race for a hang nail like someone else we know in WSBK. [bang] [laugh]
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: ducpainter on March 24, 2012, 01:14:43 PM
Nicky said on motogp.com that he was close to 100%.

But I have to agree...
Quote from: fastwin on March 24, 2012, 07:44:32 AM
Hayden's never been anything but a work horse. And I mean that in a good way. [thumbsup] [Dolph] [popcorn] He doesn't pull into the pits mid race for a hang nail like someone else we know in WSBK. [bang] [laugh]
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zarn02 on March 24, 2012, 04:55:41 PM
Hayden fastest on day two. [thumbsup]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120324a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120324a.htm)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 25, 2012, 01:28:30 PM
day 3

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120325a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120325a.htm)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Jester on March 25, 2012, 07:56:19 PM
Lorenzo might have made the final standings look close, but looking at the data suggests Stoner will wipe the floor with him over the course of a race.  Stoner is consistantly much faster than anyone out there lap after lap.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: OT on March 25, 2012, 09:36:06 PM
He has to get out in front, first...top six within a second of each other - it should be interesting  [coffee]
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: triangleforge on March 26, 2012, 08:44:27 AM
Interesting article with a bit more detailed quotes than I'd seen elsewhere from Rossi:

http://www.tuttomotoriweb.com/2012/03/26/a-jerez-ducati-e-sesta-valentino-rossi-difficile-andare-forti-cosi/ (http://www.tuttomotoriweb.com/2012/03/26/a-jerez-ducati-e-sesta-valentino-rossi-difficile-andare-forti-cosi/)

If Google's translation (and the Italian media) are to be believed, they've got the rear of the bike to "OK" and the front to a point where it works pretty well with the new soft front compound - up to the point where the tire's done, and then substantial understeer comes back.

Oh, and it really needles Rossi to see Hayden ahead of him on the charts.  :D
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: OT on March 26, 2012, 10:34:53 AM
http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/201203256423/Rossi-we-saw-the-real-Ducati.html#ixzz1qF7amSRp (http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/201203256423/Rossi-we-saw-the-real-Ducati.html#ixzz1qF7amSRp)


If Tiger Woods can win another golf tournament then Rossi can win another race or two, or four, or..... ;D
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 26, 2012, 11:22:36 AM
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-stoner-even-faster-than-he-looks (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-stoner-even-faster-than-he-looks)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Speeddog on March 26, 2012, 12:16:37 PM
Ridonkulous:

(http://assets.speedtv.com/images/article_assets/110/1103967/1103967_article_img_large1.jpg)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: duccarlos on March 26, 2012, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on March 26, 2012, 12:16:37 PM
Ridonkulous:

(http://assets.speedtv.com/images/article_assets/110/1103967/1103967_article_img_large1.jpg)

+1
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Raux on March 26, 2012, 12:53:06 PM
apparently rumor is ducati is going down cc's to get more oversquare to get more revs to get more power....
so they'll make the bike peakier with less midrange?
i dont think it's the straights they are losing on. it's still the turning.
why can't they just give up and go back to what works and what they know. a trellis frame. get the fricking handling right.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 26, 2012, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: Raux on March 26, 2012, 12:53:06 PM
why can't they just give up and go back to what works and what they know. a trellis frame. get the fricking handling right.

it's not like the GP0-7 were known for their handling.  they don't really 'know' chassis for a 4 at all.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Jester on March 26, 2012, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: Raux on March 26, 2012, 12:53:06 PM
i dont think it's the straights they are losing on. it's still the turning.

Right now it sounds like they are losing in both departments.  Turning has more to do with the chassis in my opinion.  From what I've read, they are losing a lot of ground in fast corners ( chassis ), and still a minimal bit of ground on the straights ( engine ).  Unfortunately a change in engine can change how the chassis responds, but for all we know it might improve the entire package with a different lump underneath there. 
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: derby on March 26, 2012, 06:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jester on March 26, 2012, 06:26:41 PM
Right now it sounds like they are losing in both departments.  Turning has more to do with the chassis in my opinion.  From what I've read, they are losing a lot of ground in fast corners ( chassis ), and still a minimal bit of ground on the straights ( engine ).  Unfortunately a change in engine can change how the chassis responds, but for all we know it might improve the entire package with a different lump underneath there. 

if you can't maintain speed throughout the turns and get the power down on the exits, you'll lose out on the straights.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 26, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
perfect CEII shot..

(http://photos.motogp.com/2012/03/25/05colinedwards_0_slideshow_169.jpg)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zooom on March 27, 2012, 04:50:10 AM
Quote from: gm2 on March 26, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
perfect CEII shot..

(http://photos.motogp.com/2012/03/25/05colinedwards_0_slideshow_169.jpg)

caption...


"Oooooooo...Bright Shiney!!! "
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Spidey on March 27, 2012, 10:12:41 AM
<debbie downer>

I'm already bored by the upcoming season, not excited.  Maybe if I were a real fan of any of aliens (well, at least the aliens on bikes that work), it wouldn't seem so dull.  I hope the reality of the season confounds my expectations.

Here's what it looks like to me --  Casey runs away a lot of time.  Sometimes George is close and/or wins it.  Pedrosa may have some good races where he takes off and can't be caught.  Ben will sometimes podium, but is consistently .3-.5 sec off of Lorenzo.  Crutchlow shows us why he's better on the big bikes, and may podium.  Rossi and Nicky have issues throughout the season, but ride well in the rain.  Rossi and Nicky may fight for 4-6 a lot, and have a chance to snag a couple of podiums.  CRT is going to look like a bust, but a lot of that is b/c the CRT riders suck.  They'll have to double down on CRT at the end of the year to determine whether it is a success.

Basically, it'll be more of the same.  That said, I *really* hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zooom on March 27, 2012, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Spidey on March 27, 2012, 10:12:41 AM
....... That said, I *really* hope I'm wrong.


1 potential reason why you might be wrong....we hear of Jorge doing a full race simulation....you hear of Casey doing 10 laps simulations....you don't hear much from any camp on actual overall race simulation average times...just hot extreme fastest lap times...so over race distance might be a whole 'nother animal...at least...here's to hoping!
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 27, 2012, 11:02:21 AM
Quote from: Spidey on March 27, 2012, 10:12:41 AM
Here's what it looks like to me --  Casey runs away a lot of time.  Sometimes George is close and/or wins it.  Pedrosa may have some good races where he takes off and can't be caught.  Ben will sometimes podium, but is consistently .3-.5 sec off of Lorenzo.  Crutchlow shows us why he's better on the big bikes, and may podium.  Rossi and Nicky have issues throughout the season, but ride well in the rain.  Rossi and Nicky may fight for 4-6 a lot, and have a chance to snag a couple of podiums.  CRT is going to look like a bust, but a lot of that is b/c the CRT riders suck.  They'll have to double down on CRT at the end of the year to determine whether it is a success.

you're probably not too far off.  but like all things in GP i think there will be minor things that make (sligthly) bigger differences.

hopefully day 3 in jerez indicates that rossi may get back to form.  and i expect a better season from both nicky and ben.  whether or not 'better' means still chasing casey.. probably.

i'd also really like to see dovi get back to 2009 form.  something about that factory honda made him get all vanilla.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zarn02 on March 27, 2012, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Spidey on March 27, 2012, 10:12:41 AM
I'm already bored by the upcoming season, not excited.

Yup.

I fully expect it to be another snoozer. :-\
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: pennyrobber on March 27, 2012, 01:37:05 PM
I am hoping tire life also becomes a bigger factor with the increased power. Maybe it'll shake things up a bit. On an only slightly related note, F1 has been good so far this season.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zooom on March 27, 2012, 01:45:19 PM
http://superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=crt0327 (http://superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=crt0327)

CHIME IN....
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: ducpainter on March 27, 2012, 01:49:01 PM
Quote from: zooom on March 27, 2012, 01:45:19 PM
http://superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=crt0327 (http://superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=crt0327)

CHIME IN....
The results speak for themselves...

I honestly think Carmelo is gonna kill GP.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: koko64 on March 27, 2012, 02:33:30 PM
+1

He's thinking like a banker/accountant and not like an enthusiast. Sure it's gotta make money and be affordable, but he's killing the passion and prestige in it for the factory teams. He betta watch out because Honda won't put up with this forever and if they pull out (and they've done it before), why should the rest stay?

If he dumbs it down too much then HRC and Ducati Corse will leave and go where the passion is. He's got so economic rationalist about it that he's lost the point that its passion which sells motorcycles and tickets, (and makes race teams turn up).
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: duccarlos on March 27, 2012, 02:50:49 PM
Bring on Imola.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 27, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
Quote from: koko64 on March 27, 2012, 02:33:30 PM
+1

He's thinking like a banker/accountant and not like an enthusiast. Sure it's gotta make money and be affordable, but he's killing the passion and prestige in it for the factory teams. He betta watch out because Honda won't put up with this forever and if they pull out (and they've done it before), why should the rest stay?

If he dumbs it down too much then HRC and Ducati Corse will leave and go where the passion is. He's got so economic rationalist about it that he's lost the point that its passion which sells motorcycles and tickets, (and makes race teams turn up).

....or he's started a little extreme so that once they finally settle on an answer it's somewhere in the middle, rather than 3 pixels off from 2011.

i get arguing against no spec ECU.  everyone seems to have accepted spec tires.  a spend limit is totally unenforceable.  

so what do you do?  CRT says nothing about having to be production-based, it just gives that option.  but if RDP is already inside of 2 seconds of the satellite machines.. the grid gets bigger -- which it MUST do -- and the net effect on p1-~8 is negligible.  CRT is a replacement for satellite machines that no one can afford.

rev limits is a more prickly topic.  but let's say it's a number that everyone can live with, and they get to continue developing electronics.  i don't see the series as destroyed suddenly.



- yes, i would much rather go back to 2006.  but that just aint gonna happen.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 28, 2012, 12:24:23 PM
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98420 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98420)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: ducpainter on March 28, 2012, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: gm2 on March 27, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
....or he's started a little extreme so that once they finally settle on an answer it's somewhere in the middle, rather than 3 pixels off from 2011.

i get arguing against no spec ECU.  everyone seems to have accepted spec tires.  a spend limit is totally unenforceable.  

so what do you do?  CRT says nothing about having to be production-based, it just gives that option.  but if RDP is already inside of 2 seconds of the satellite machines.. the grid gets bigger -- which it MUST do -- and the net effect on p1-~8 is negligible.  CRT is a replacement for satellite machines that no one can afford.

rev limits is a more prickly topic.  but let's say it's a number that everyone can live with, and they get to continue developing electronics.  i don't see the series as destroyed suddenly.



- yes, i would much rather go back to 2006.  but that just aint gonna happen.
None of the proposed changes make the racing any better, and it doesn't seem that it will get any better with different levels of machinery on the grid whether they be satellite teams, or CRT teams whatever they are. There will be several races going on and I find that distracting...it's almost like club racing where they start in waves...except these guys will finish in waves.

...and you're right...it will never be 2006 again. ;)

Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Triple J on March 28, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: gm2 on March 28, 2012, 12:24:23 PM
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98420 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98420)

Rossi seems to whine about the bike more than Stoner did.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: duccarlos on March 28, 2012, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: Triple J on March 28, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Rossi seems to whine about the bike more than Stoner did.

Yep
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 28, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
season about to start Ryder notes  http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120328rydernotes.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120328rydernotes.htm)
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: $Lindz$ on March 28, 2012, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: Triple J on March 28, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Rossi seems to whine about the bike more than Stoner did.

Rossi has always been very vocal, very talkative, and has always talked about everything. When the bike was good he was always talking about it, now the bike is bad and people want to hear what he says about it.
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: swampduc on March 28, 2012, 07:23:01 PM
^^^ And, to state the obvious, the response would be completely different if CS said the same thing...
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Triple J on March 28, 2012, 07:56:58 PM
Quote from: swampduc on March 28, 2012, 07:23:01 PM
^^^ And, to state the obvious, the response would be completely different if CS said the same thing...

Exactly. 
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: $Lindz$ on March 29, 2012, 02:32:24 AM
Maybe people would listen to Stoner (or "care") more nowadays, if only because of his 2x championships. Especially before he was super reclusive and didn't say anything to the press except to b*tch about ROssi or the Ducati or the conditions or the track, etc.

If that's all you're gonna say, no one wants to hear it.

Like I said, people want (or at least are accustomed to) Rossi talking about everything under the sun (and moon... see what I did th -ah, nevermind). So everyone's like "How is it?" and he's like "Well... it's shit."
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: zooom on March 29, 2012, 04:26:44 AM
Quote from: gm2 on March 28, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
season about to start Ryder notes  http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120328rydernotes.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120328rydernotes.htm)

I like the way he chimed in on 2 specific things that most or not talking much about....

1) watching CE II and the progression of his CRT machine ( based on how he puts it being "in the true spirit of CRT" machinery) based on his knowledge and development skills and the teams capabilities.

2) the new spec Bridgestones and the wear charachteristics....we have hedged around the subject...but a rider like Spies who is used to shagged tires is going to fair better in some ways than someone who is less experienced in riding and feeling them...and since most teams didn't admit to running full race simulations...I expect we might see some latter laps that are very interesting in how times or positions might change due to this...
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: fastwin on March 29, 2012, 09:44:30 AM
What he said! [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: gm2 on March 29, 2012, 10:57:47 AM
Quote from: zooom on March 29, 2012, 04:26:44 AM
2) the new spec Bridgestones and the wear charachteristics....we have hedged around the subject...but a rider like Spies who is used to shagged tires is going to fair better in some ways than someone who is less experienced in riding and feeling them...and since most teams didn't admit to running full race simulations...I expect we might see some latter laps that are very interesting in how times or positions might change due to this...

yup. 
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: Triple J on March 29, 2012, 12:13:37 PM
Quote from: zooom on March 29, 2012, 04:26:44 AM
2) the new spec Bridgestones and the wear charachteristics....we have hedged around the subject...but a rider like Spies who is used to shagged tires is going to fair better in some ways than someone who is less experienced in riding and feeling them...and since most teams didn't admit to running full race simulations...I expect we might see some latter laps that are very interesting in how times or positions might change due to this...

Hopefully!  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: OT on March 29, 2012, 09:18:18 PM
There's probably a setting for that (shagged tires) hidden somewhere in the ECU software....
Title: Re: Jerez Test 2012
Post by: pennyrobber on March 30, 2012, 05:46:17 AM
Quote from: OT on March 29, 2012, 09:18:18 PM
There's probably a setting for that (shagged tires) hidden somewhere in the ECU software....

Absolutely. The power will be dialed down to keep wheel spin under control. Those who can deal with a little more spin may then have the advantage.