Hi everyone!
haven't been posting on here much lately, but seems like everyone is doing well?
I normally try not to air my laundry out on the web, but I was hoping to get some legal advice for a situation we have come into.
For the past couple years we have been running our own business (labor based), and as of the beginning of this year, we have shut down the business.
Last year, we gave away a free prize for 1 hour of work, and contacted the winner afterwards to schedule the time to do so. She responded once, but then never came back to us until recently (after we have shut down) and is demanding that we own up to the prize.
We've apologized and explained that the business is no more, but of course that isn't good enough. [roll] Unfortunately, we neglected to put an expiration date on the prize at the time [bang], but i'm not sure what to do in this situation.
We've contacted her and let her know that we will honor the hour of labor, but that it is no way associated with the business as we no longer have a business license nor insurance.
I'm mostly just curious what are the legal ramifications of all this if we didn't honor the prize? Could she take us to small claims?
I keep thinking of an analogy of all the people with gift certificates to Borders. Now that they are shut-down, what happens to all the people with gift certificates and such?
thanks in advance!
She could probably take you to small claims court...
and the judge might rule in her favor or not.
I'd be curious to know what the penalties would be for doing business with out a license or insurance as compared to the value of the labor.
What if she's unhappy with the work and sues you anyway?
I'd write her a check for the value.
I cannot tell for U.S. courts but here in Quebec the lady wound't have a case...
1- Was the company incorporated or it was at your name ? this could have an impact on your hown responsibility in the case
2- what was the total cost of providing that service ? let's say if it's under a 100$ it seams ridicule to endure all the stress of having to defend yourself to the small claim's court
3- Becose you have alredy contacted the client before and she never came back you sould check the time that your client add to produce a claim in court....the client could actually be out of the permited time....here in Quebec it's 1 year to produce a claim ( as an example)
Quote from: ducpainter on April 05, 2012, 01:13:20 PM
I'd write her a check for the value.
This.
Simple and easy.
thanks everyone!
It was a sole proprietorship (my name) and the 'cash value' would be $300 for the services.
we are waiting for her to respond to our last email, but maybe cashing her out is the best option (even though i'd rather not spend that right now).
Quote from: MrFryMoto on April 05, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
thanks everyone!
It was a sole proprietorship (my name) and the 'cash value' would be $300 for the services.
we are waiting for her to respond to our last email, but maybe cashing her out is the best option (even though i'd rather not spend that right now).
I guess if you have the time to go to court you could take your chances...I hear not wanting to spend 3 bills.
Sometimes though it really is the cheapest easiest way.
Throw the money at her! Make her go away. It's not like she's on your Christmas card list anymore.
I don't know what services you were providing before you shut down but it stinks that she is pulling this nickle and dime stunt after you have closed the doors to your business. Where was she when you were still in business? I smell a rat. Giving her the cash (I know you don't want to) is still cheaper than hiring an attorney and going to even small claims court. [bang]
try to cash her out for half the price arguing that if she goes to the small claim court ;
1- if she looses she Will have to pay some your legal fees ( not sure if it's true in the U.S. but she might not know it .. ;D ) it's a risk for her
2- Since the company no longer exist you can tell her that your first objection in court would be that it's a wrongfull claim since you hare not "the company"
3- Since you already contacted her, your responsibility is no longer an issue since she never call you back afterword's .
Theses may not be valid legal point but a "shark lawyer " ;D would tell you client these thing to encourage her to accept a diminish compensation
What they just said. [thumbsup]
The company is out of business. The company attempted to give the prize to her when it was still in business. The "prize" is gone just like the business. Tell her to take the company to small claims court. If you lose you pay the $300. Big whoop.
Offer her $150.
cash her out....do NO work....
this type will have you back because it was "unsatisfactory"
do Not shake hands with an octopus,,,,,, they have 7 other tentacles to grab you with
Quote from: hbliam on April 06, 2012, 12:14:58 AM
The company is out of business. The company attempted to give the prize to her when it was still in business. The "prize" is gone just like the business. Tell her to take the company to small claims court. If you lose you pay the $300. Big whoop.
This.
It is my understanding when Borders went under you were kind of screwed with a gift card. Since they probably had numerous creditors...once they were liquified, the creditors get paid off first and the consumer with the 20$ is at the bottom of the list.
Good Luck!
- Brian R.
well, she responded to our last email offering to do the work out of our personal time. Her response is... ''special''.
Not sure if i mentioned this before, but it was a wedding and engagement photography business.
Please keep in mind that we have been nothing but apologetic to her and have explained the circumstances (no business license or insurance, etc.).
QuoteWhat a joy our engagement photo shoot will be with an attitude like that. The point is you promised something you haven't delivered and now act like you have no obligation. Even retail stores that go out of business are liable for gift certificates they've already issued.
I would have been understanding if you had been apologetic or at least explained the circumstances without being ridiculous about it. You don't need a business license to point a camera at someone. Do you refrain from taking photos of your family because you have no business license?
We can wait until June if that will mean you are done with the wedding and can be civilized human being again. Otherwise we can do it this week.
<name omitted >
So that being said, there's no way i'm taking photos for her! Like i'm going to be able to make this girl be all smiles and kisses when both parties are upset!
Now it's just determining whether we say 'tough luck' and be done (hopefully not having to deal with small claims), or offer to cash her out...
Quote from: MrFryMoto on April 06, 2012, 06:19:01 AM
well, she responded to our last email offering to do the work out of our personal time. Her response is... ''special''.
Not sure if i mentioned this before, but it was a wedding and engagement photography business.
Please keep in mind that we have been nothing but apologetic to her and have explained the circumstances (no business license or insurance, etc.).
So that being said, there's no way i'm taking photos for her! Like i'm going to be able to make this girl be all smiles and kisses when both parties are upset!
Now it's just determining whether we say 'tough luck' and be done (hopefully not having to deal with small claims), or offer to cash her out...
show up with a bag full of disposable cameras and dressed like a magician
Quote from: lethe on April 06, 2012, 06:39:56 AM
show up with a bag full of disposable cameras and dressed like a magician
or clown
and have someone videoing it or wear a go pro.
mitt [thumbsup]
like I said before...cash her out...she's an entitled octopus
You said in the first post that it was a "free prize" She didn't pay for it...
F her, don't give her a dime!
Tell her you sold your cameras to pay for hookers, and her moms ain't cheap.
Quote from: hbliam on April 06, 2012, 12:14:58 AM
The company is out of business. The company attempted to give the prize to her when it was still in business. The "prize" is gone just like the business. Tell her to take the company to small claims court. If you lose you pay the $300. Big whoop.
Agreed (except don't tell her to take you to small claims court. Let her decide to do that on her own).
Ok, first step to receiving your free prize. You need to attend a 4 hour long seminar that I am holding in the graveyard at midnight. Please bring your long robe and a red candle.
Quote from: lethe on April 06, 2012, 08:45:42 AM
Ok, first step to receiving your free prize. You need to attend a 4 hour long seminar that I am holding in the graveyard at midnight. Please bring your long robe and a red candle.
If you can't provide your own virgin sacrifice, one will be provided for you at a nominal charge...
hm we never clarified what we would take the pictures with...
perhaps i should show up with one of these:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CFRzOyvuL._AA300_.jpg)
(http://0.tqn.com/d/portables/1/0/2/H/Fisher-Price-Kid-Tough-Camera.jpg)
The difference between a gift certificate and a prize is one was paid for. I already said it, but after having read her email, definitely do no business with her. Give her nothing. Let her figure out what she wants to do.
I would just say (via email, all documented, all professional, no phone calls) "Sorry the business closed down permanently before you made the time to take advantage of a special promotion. We tried to accommodate you prior to the closing but you would not make yourself available. We cannot be expected to wait months, years, or decades for someone to claim a service they spent zero dollars on. I'm sorry it didn't work out."
Quote from: hbliam on April 06, 2012, 10:45:21 AM
The difference between a gift certificate and a prize is one was paid for. I already said it, but after having read her email, definitely do no business with her. Give her nothing. Let her figure out what she wants to do.
I would just say (via email, all documented, all professional, no phone calls) "Sorry the business closed down permanently before you made the time to take advantage of a special promotion. We tried to accommodate you prior to the closing but you would not make yourself available. We cannot be expected to wait months, years, or decades for someone to claim a service they spent zero dollars on. I'm sorry it didn't work out."
Illustrating that ~50% of police work is diplomacy. [clap]
Personally, I'd tell the pregnant dog to kick rocks. [coffee]
Quote from: hbliam on April 06, 2012, 10:45:21 AM
I would just say (via email, all documented, all professional, no phone calls) "Sorry the business closed down permanently before you made the time to take advantage of a special promotion. We tried to accommodate you prior to the closing but you would not make yourself available. We cannot be expected to wait months, years, or decades for someone to claim a service they spent zero dollars on. I'm sorry it didn't work out."
this. good luck.
Quote from: hbliam on April 06, 2012, 10:45:21 AM
The difference between a gift certificate and a prize is one was paid for. I already said it, but after having read her email, definitely do no business with her. Give her nothing. Let her figure out what she wants to do.
I would just say (via email, all documented, all professional, no phone calls) "Sorry the business closed down permanently before you made the time to take advantage of a special promotion. We tried to accommodate you prior to the closing but you would not make yourself available. We cannot be expected to wait months, years, or decades for someone to claim a service they spent zero dollars on. I'm sorry it didn't work out."
This is what I would do if it were me.
thanks again everyone!
Unfortunately, we offered to pay her out just to be done with it.
I'm now more upset that someone this ridiculous is coming out ahead because of her disgruntled ignorance - but at least it will be out of our hair.
Give her a baggie filled with sand.
Quote from: MrFryMoto on April 07, 2012, 12:38:05 PM
thanks again everyone!
Unfortunately, we offered to pay her out just to be done with it.
..........but at least it will be out of our hair.
BINGO!!...
you came out ahead...
think how much "possibly" saving 300 or whatever many bucks
could or would have cost you in aggravation, noise and BS
........unless you have a real taste for grinding away with human vermin
it was a wise investment to preserve peace of mind and quality of life
Quote from: RAT900 on April 07, 2012, 01:44:46 PM
BINGO!!...
you came out ahead...
think how much "possibly" saving 300 or whatever many bucks
could or would have cost you in aggravation, noise and BS
........unless you have a real taste for grinding away with human vermin
it was a wise investment to preserve peace of mind and quality of life
^^^This^^^
Make sure she signs something releasing you from any further duty.
Quote from: hbliam on April 07, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
Make sure she signs something releasing you from any further duty.
And write "final payment" on the memo line of the check.
Quote from: hbliam on April 07, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
Make sure she signs something releasing you from any further duty.
This and make sure that the statement that she sign mention that she will not take any legal action
Both are redundant if he just gets a note signed.
Id have spent that $300 with my attorney to have him draft a 500 page release that required a signature on each page from her.
If someone is going to gouge me like that they're going to make the beast with two backsing earn it.
I hate people like this.
T, make her sign a release first,
then pay her in pennies.