I am rebuilding my bike after a crash and would love to simply the handlebar area...
Actually I would love to get rid of everything except a big red starter button. Obviously this will require aftermarket levers, masters and reservoirs. I would be ditching turn signals and relocating my high/low beam to a toggle switch on top of the dual headlights. Also, getting rid of the kill switch and the horn button would have to move.
Anybody done this? Sounds kinda crazy but really clean looking. Just a starter and a speedo.
Any help would be great.
Why not move the start button? That's one of the easiest things to move.
This will be a very cool topic [clap] I'm expecting it to be going on for a long time.
Can't wait to see what you'll be able to do. Good luck!
I'm very sorry I'm nowhere near able to contribute, but I support the idea.
I'm nervous about the no turn signals thing...(safety). But throttle and starter only is appealing. I would be ditching the tach and idiot lights in favor of an old school speedo. Old bikes don't have turn signals though and there is no getting around that.
Check this out. Inspiration for cleanliness.
(http://www.kronslev.net/Pictures/P10_KTM_25_Yoke.jpg)
Oh....I love that. I want that only older looking. No clip-ons or LCD ...but that is what I have in mind...nothin' on the bars.
Turn signals operated by two touch sensitive pad switches on the tank?
doesn't look like there are turn signals on that bike.
I haven't talked to my shop guy yet...but it seems to me the major issue here is the cost of aftermarket master-cylinders, which will allow you to get rid of the ugly factory controls. They are expensive...everything else is pretty much easy and cheap. Reservoirs and levers aren't too expensive, the wiring is really only shop time so it really comes down to what will aftermarket masters cost.
Check out this guys bike for inspiration...
http://m900.blogspot.com/
You may have already seen this from TOB, but his photos of the simplified speedo might interest you.
Quote from: Grappa on June 25, 2008, 02:03:02 AM
Check out this guys bike for inspiration...
http://m900.blogspot.com/
You may have already seen this from TOB, but his photos of the simplified speedo might interest you.
Nice, but I can't believe I didn't get a shoutout for his headlight bracket. That's exactly how I posted instructions that I did a year before that... :-\
Oh man...I love that bike. Nice effort on the blog too, wow. [clap]
i only have a start button on the right side of my bars, and a small "off road switch" on the left side. the left switch handles the lights (off-low-high) horn, and blinkers, but i dont have the blinkers wired up. i have a home drawn wiring diagram that i did if you want that. im not sure what year bike you have, but mine is a 04 m800. i can give you a pic of the switches i took off so you can compare to what you have right now. if you want, im sure it wouldnt be too hard to set it up with just a button on the left for start, and two buttons on the left, one for the horn and a click button for the high-low.
i have not used blinkers for the last 3 years, and so far ive had no close calls. *knocking on wood* but i would really hate to loose the horn. it has saved me several times. give me a few minutes and ill get those pics up.
all of the drawings are looking at the plug, where they plug into each other, not where the wires come out. im not sure how most wiring diagrams work, but i did this on my own and i understand it.
left side.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/leftsideswitch.jpg)
right side.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/rightsideswitch.jpg)
i did all my wiring between the plug and the switch. i did not want to cut into the regular frame side of the wiring harness.
i didnt mention my reason for doing this in the last post. i have the coffin style reservoirs and the stock switches were too wide to fit on the clipons, and it was cheaper to replace the switches instead of the reservoirs.
Wow thank you so much.
What master cylinders did you use? I assume you dumped the ones attached to your controls.
Thanks again.
i still have the stock master cylinders and reservoirs. the problem is that the stock "coffin" reservoirs (at least thats what i believe they are called) are too big to fit on the vortex clipons with the stock switches. and i know i could change the switches for less than the cost of changing the reservoirs.
i have found (through the power of ebay) some pics of what my stuff is. the only pic that is actually mine is the left switch.
my original left switch.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/leftswitch.jpg)
my original right switch.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/fe15_1_sbl.jpg)
coffin reservoirs.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/24d3_1.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/96d1_1.jpg)
while reading the description for some of the other euro switches on ebay they say "The switch will fit all Ducati Monster 620/800/900/1000 motorcycles 2003 and later." so i assume the wiring i posted earlier will work for all monsters '03 and later, but i take no responsibility resulting in damages and/or problems from the use of my diagram.
edit: i will post some pics of my bars once i get home. if its not raining.
This will be a cool project [thumbsup] why wouldn't you move the starter as well? or is the idea of the thing that turns it on and the thing that shows how fast its going type of relation idea (if you know what im saying) that your going for.
it wouldnt be hard at all to move the starter button to somewhere other than the bars. there is enough room and length on the wire to move it practically anywhere on the bike if you really wanted to, but if i did that i would have a hard time holding in the clutch and hitting the start button and keeping ready on the gas to make sure it doesnt die right away. especially since i dont have a choke anymore since i changed the left side switches.
one thing is for sure though, i would not want to move the horn button away from the bars at all. i enjoy being able to use the horn when the need arises. raulduke may have other plans for his bike but i personally dont mind a few things on the bars.
another thing to think about is that if you do a track day, most places (at least the groups that do local track days) require that you have a kill switch on the bars within reach.
Good to see you putting the bike back together, good luck with the project!
Hey dude! I think I have a quasi solution for ya.
Hidden buttons inside the grip.
Like little nipples.
The grip would go over the buttons, hiding them, and since they're in the bottom, they wont interfere with your riding. The cables themselves would go inside the clip on and whole thing could be very, very clean if done right.
I'm attaching some drawings of some pics. Dorry for the quality of the drawings, I did it in like 5 mins...
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6133/scannedimage2yp3.jpg)
(http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5646/scannedimage3az4.jpg)
the only problem with doing that is that the buttons usually dont have to be pressed very hard and with the grip over them like that they may just stay on once the grip is on there. i really like that youre thinking outside the box. you could do that and instead of the grip being over the top of the button, have a small hole cut in the grip for the button, but that is still not hidden anymore.
depending on the length of the button, it may be possible to just have it inside the clipon but not bolted to it like in your pic/drawing and just have the back of the button resting on the inside of the clipon.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/hornbutton.jpg)
in that pic, the blue is the horn button itself, and the red at the bottom is the part of the button you actually push. doing it like that and just having a little bit of pressure from the grip will keep it from going off unintentionally. nothing will be bolted in and it will fit just fine (in theory) and hopefully work like planned. there is really only one way to find out. ive got some old bars laying around that i can try that on... just for fun... and research.
so i started doing some thinking today about this idea El Matador had and i think i have found someone that could possibly help us. i remember looking at one of the "featured monster" section of TOB and i remembered this bike (link to bike (http://www.ducatimonster.org/featured/2007july/featured0707.html)) they used pingel slimline switches and relays. you COULD do that (button under the grip and a relay) to turn control the lights high/low. and still do the idea for the horn and that way you could completely get rid of any buttons or switches that can be seen.
ive done alot of thinking about how i could make this happen and i figure you could make your own switch by making a threaded hole into the bar and have it setup kinda like a kill switch for a dirt bike.
its hard to tell from the pic (crappy cam with no macro function) but the green wire (1) is a ground and when its bolted down to the bars, it and the top silver piece (2) are grounded with each other. when you push on the button, thats on the other side of 2 that we cant see, it completes the circuit by making it come into contact with the black wire (3). the black wire is held off the bar itself by the black piece of plastic (4). the big piece of rubber to the left of (3) is a cover that goes over the whole assembly.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/struhall/the%20car%20and%20bike/DCFC0004.jpg)
the biggest problem with doing this is that you dont have a whole lot of room inside the bars to work with. im not saying its impossible, but definitely not the easiest. then again, if it was easy everyone would do it and it wouldnt be cool anymore.
edit: link to a page (http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp) that info about relays. the relay that you would need to do the headlight switching is a single pole double throw (spdt) relay.
Damn dude that looks good...
I'll try to wire up a circuit for that. To be honest, you dont need to put that much stuff inside the actual clip on, all you need is the buttons and wires and you could have the actual circuits behind the headlight.
Hmmm... That sounds interesting.. Tinkering and pics to follow...
i wouldnt be trying to put all that stuff inside the bars. just the wires and the button or contacts or whatever you decided to use. if we can figure out something pretty easy and good looking, i may be up to doing this myself. if i did the headlights, i would use a relay somewhere hidden that will work on a dual throw. that way you just press the button and it clicks back and forth between the two connections in the relay, once each time you press the button. it may even reset itself back to the original position (that would be wired for the low beams) every time you turn the bike off.
one thing i did think about while describing it to a buddy is that to make it work by putting the button under the grip is that you would have to use really thin grips. something more along the lines of mx style grips, and i have proof that mx grips suck. i wore out a set in less than 1k miles, they were the 909 brand dual compound and the soft part is almost all the way gone and i can see the black on the back side through the gray soft part.
there has to be a way to make it happen. i have the creative juices flowing thanks to vicodin, so we may have a conclusion as early as tomorrow.
What can maybe be done is just to put a a normal grip and cut holes where the buttons would protrude.
Then, with a same colored Latex or other thin rubber, cover the whole from the inside, like a patch.
Et voila! you now have buttons covered by a grip that won't activate them due to too much pressure and wont kill your hands.
Quote from: toaster on June 26, 2008, 09:08:06 PM
i wouldnt be trying to put all that stuff inside the bars. just the wires and the button or contacts or whatever you decided to use. if we can figure out something pretty easy and good looking, i may be up to doing this myself. if i did the headlights, i would use a relay somewhere hidden that will work on a dual throw. that way you just press the button and it clicks back and forth between the two connections in the relay, once each time you press the button. it may even reset itself back to the original position (that would be wired for the low beams) every time you turn the bike off.
one thing i did think about while describing it to a buddy is that to make it work by putting the button under the grip is that you would have to use really thin grips. something more along the lines of mx style grips, and i have proof that mx grips suck. i wore out a set in less than 1k miles, they were the 909 brand dual compound and the soft part is almost all the way gone and i can see the black on the back side through the gray soft part.
there has to be a way to make it happen. i have the creative juices flowing thanks to vicodin, so we may have a conclusion as early as tomorrow.
I was thinking among the same lines with the double throw...
From the TOB.
QuoteIf your interest is not a total handlebar controls system swap out, but just loosing the ugly and bulky electronics control modules I found this a little while back and was greatly intrigued.
Grip Ace (http://www.gripace.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=GRIPACE)
$299 for the basic slip on. $399+ for billet and custom options.
Forgive the poor website and it's very squidlicious leanings, watch the vids. I really like the idea. They seem to cover all the bases including all pieces and parts for the install. Unfortunately, I don't have cash for gas these days much less mods, or I'd guinea pig this thing in a heartbeat.
Also catching my eye, was the option to send them specs on a grip for a custom job. I'd love to see if/how they could integrate with a sweet set of Rizoma billet grips.
8)
Quote from: Dude on June 26, 2008, 10:35:24 PM
From the TOB.
8)
Well make the beast with two backs me with a french fry, Somebody stole our idea! ;) Dang it!
;D <-- google master!
www.brcustomcycles.com/HAND_CONTROLS.php
(http://www.brcustomcycles.com/images/climax_controls.jpg)
www.steelthundercc.com/handlebarcontrols.html
(http://www.steelthundercc.com/assets/handlebarcontrols%20assets/BDL%20handlebar%20controls.jpg)
www.customcyclecontrols.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=82/home_id=70/mode=cat/cat82.htm
(http://www.customcyclecontrols.com/cartimages/prd_zm_59.jpg)
Quote from: El Matador on June 27, 2008, 06:34:23 AM
Well make the beast with two backs me with a french fry, Somebody stole our idea! ;) Dang it!
thats not necessarily what i was thinking about. the way i would wanna do it will look just like a normal grip. those all have a different look to them, plus they are all metal and rubber, not just rubber.
the idea you had about cutting the hole then covering that with latex will look like a regular grip and not give away the fact that there is stuff on the inside. that was the point of this whole thread. plus i dont see spending 300 bucks on a set of grips if i can do it myself for less than 20-30.
Quote from: toaster on June 27, 2008, 07:25:17 AM
thats not necessarily what i was thinking about. the way i would wanna do it will look just like a normal grip. those all have a different look to them, plus they are all metal and rubber, not just rubber.
the idea you had about cutting the hole then covering that with latex will look like a regular grip and not give away the fact that there is stuff on the inside. that was the point of this whole thread. plus i dont see spending 300 bucks on a set of grips if i can do it myself for less than 20-30.
+1 I wouldn't spend 300 bucks in something I can do in a couple of hours for 40... Hmmm maybe I see a business opportunity in this... ;)
dont you go getting any crazy ideas just yet. im going to look into finding buttons similar to the ones used on the grips in the link dude posted. i could make those happen pretty easy and they are rubber so they shouldnt look too bad.
I've probably run the most minimal bar controls on my DesmoDevil series of bikes the past few years. Either right side only factory switch or my own starter/hi-low. (I use a Motogadget gauge in my headlight pod itself w/3 idiot lights)
I've just went to production with a product called "Switchlets" that are plug/play and replace the factory switchgear. Options for right side control are starter only or starter only / kill switch. Left side is hi-low -or- hi-low/turn signal -or- hi-low/turn signal/horn. It's taken a bit longer to get into production as I couldn't find a high quality mil-spec switch that I know would work for years (million plus actuations) and also be sealed and that didn't also require micro-relays. We ended up actually modifying an industrial quality switch that met our specs, but now has buttons that can easily be used with winter gloves but still look cool. As for looks / size / etc -- nothing sticks above the bar itself and only one fastener required. Initially will be anodized in black or silver with stainless buttons. (Polished optional) There will be some short production runs of other colors available as we go -- there are a few surprises here! Hopefully the first production set will be on Ducati Island at MotoGP this year on a customers S4R w/BoomTubes and then we will release to the general public -vs- internal customers I've known for years.
Due to the slimness and cool factor of the Switchlets, we are also making our own dual-media handgrips and a few other parts for the handlebars (bar ends, bar end mirrors and reservoirs). A set of the grips are being tested now by someone who commutes on a daily basis on their Monster -- so hopefully a few more weeks and then we will push to production also.
Pictures will be posted when something is "production ready".
I'm not sure if I should tell, but something is moving downstairs when you're telling about your new products ;D - a few more and I'll be done for the evening 8)
im still gonna try and figure out what i can do myself. i came up with a great idea when i pulled away one of the keys on my laptop. it just all depends on whats underneath. even if i cant make that work, there are lots of ways i can think of to make it happen. only problem i will see in buying something thats available like motocreations is doing is the price.
like his sig pic says: "what did you build today?" and another famous quote to describe bikes: "built not bought." i would do my best to build it myself instead of buying it. in all honesty i didnt even plan on doing something like this until we started discussing it so much, and now its gone from a idea and helping someone into a challenge for me to figure it out myself.
Quote from: toaster on June 27, 2008, 03:33:36 PM
like his sig pic says: "what did you build today?"
Definitely go for it -- and I'm saying that honestly. It's how I got started in this industry. A crazy idea about a "Ducati morphed into something that Harley Davidson could possibly have built if they had bought Ducati". It wenty crazy from there and thus I had to build it from the Photoshop idea and customer deliverables that followed.
Today it is no longer about building "one off" items or projects. It's about how to design, prototype, test and manufacture products for distribution US / Europe and Asia. Sometimes I liked the old days much better as I only had to appease myself and didn't have to refine and test a product to death before manufacture and release to the public.
One bike to look at is Stuart's / FlightCycles did for Warren (aka Spidey) for bar controls. He had to adapt a bunch of relays to make things work (as most aftermarket HD ones require) -- but it's a great start. (look at http://www.DucCutters.com)
The coolest are what Exile has done in incorporating the buttons beneath the rubber grips themselves. Not easy to use but they are the ultimate in stealth.
Mat / 13Choppers has adapted the Climax controls (pictured above in someone elses post) on a few of his Ducati powered choppers. They worked great but I never thought they integrated well with the Ducati design language itself.
Definitely post pics as you go and have fun with it.
Quote from: stopintime on June 27, 2008, 02:41:20 PM
a few more and I'll be done for the evening 8)
You have a wet clutch on your S2R800 -- wait until you see what is happening with that one!
Quote from: MotoCreations on June 27, 2008, 03:45:44 PM
You have a wet clutch on your S2R800 -- wait until you see what is happening with that one!
dont say stuff like that. i have a 04 800 and ive seriously thought about selling it to get a different bike JUST for the dry clutch. send me a pm with the info about what you plan on pricing this "kit" or whatever youre gonna call it so i can start saving my money.
Quote from: MotoCreations on June 27, 2008, 03:45:44 PM
You have a wet clutch on your S2R800 -- wait until you see what is happening with that one!
Yeah, I know [thumbsup] It's like going on a blind date, with the hottest girl your friends have ever seen. Can't wait 8)
When you miss the old days - please think of all the enjoyment YOU provide for other Monsteristi - must be fulfilling [clap]
Those switches seem like the kind you find on a lot of plastic tube flashlights....and I think those are only a few bucks...maybe they could be re-purposed. Or these:
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c261/P168.pdf (http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c261/P168.pdf)
Quote from: toaster on June 27, 2008, 07:25:17 AM
thats not necessarily what i was thinking about. the way i would wanna do it will look just like a normal grip. those all have a different look to them, plus they are all metal and rubber, not just rubber.
the idea you had about cutting the hole then covering that with latex will look like a regular grip and not give away the fact that there is stuff on the inside. that was the point of this whole thread. plus i dont see spending 300 bucks on a set of grips if i can do it myself for less than 20-30.
Actually, the Grip Ace slip on is just black rubber.
(http://www.gripace.com/images/products/GripAce-back-large.gif)
You can't really tell anything unless you look closely at the bottom of the grip, and see the 4 pressure switches, or the wire running from it.
(http://www.gripace.com/images/products/GripAce_Box.jpg)
Being an elec tech myself, it's not the switches that are the issue/cost. It's the brain. You only have four clutch side buttons that operate every possible switch on your bike. (Aside that throttle side kill switch I'm thinking.) Starter, Blinkers, Headlights, Brights, Horn, other lighting effects, etc. You have to have a control unit for that. Logic in, control voltage out. For the nice clean one piece grip with a pre-done wiring assembly, plus the control unit, $299 ain't that bad. That's less than a bling clutch cover, plate and springs. Not that I can afford either ATM.
The only thing you'll have left to deal with is choke/fast idle.
There is a thing or two I'd change on it if I made it as a custom job, like running the wiring inside the handlebar, but it "seems" like a well thought out product with a nice clean look.
.02
Quote from: MotoCreations on June 27, 2008, 09:46:31 AM
I've probably run the most minimal bar controls on my DesmoDevil series of bikes the past few years. Either right side only factory switch or my own starter/hi-low. (I use a Motogadget gauge in my headlight pod itself w/3 idiot lights)
I've just went to production with a product called "Switchlets" that are plug/play and replace the factory switchgear. Options for right side control are starter only or starter only / kill switch. Left side is hi-low -or- hi-low/turn signal -or- hi-low/turn signal/horn. It's taken a bit longer to get into production as I couldn't find a high quality mil-spec switch that I know would work for years (million plus actuations) and also be sealed and that didn't also require micro-relays. We ended up actually modifying an industrial quality switch that met our specs, but now has buttons that can easily be used with winter gloves but still look cool. As for looks / size / etc -- nothing sticks above the bar itself and only one fastener required. Initially will be anodized in black or silver with stainless buttons. (Polished optional) There will be some short production runs of other colors available as we go -- there are a few surprises here! Hopefully the first production set will be on Ducati Island at MotoGP this year on a customers S4R w/BoomTubes and then we will release to the general public -vs- internal customers I've known for years.
Due to the slimness and cool factor of the Switchlets, we are also making our own dual-media handgrips and a few other parts for the handlebars (bar ends, bar end mirrors and reservoirs). A set of the grips are being tested now by someone who commutes on a daily basis on their Monster -- so hopefully a few more weeks and then we will push to production also.
Pictures will be posted when something is "production ready".
Ooooh. I didn't see this till I posted.
Will be looking forward to more info on this.
Don't know if anyone is still interested, but I found these while bored and thought of this post.
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8720# (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8720#)