i was wondering if monsters are harder when it comes to putting ur knee down on curves..? im 5'8'' tall 170lb.. been trying to put my knee down for a while now.. nothing crazy ..
i scratch the foot pegs first .. all my buddies on speed bikes can easely put their knee down .. any advice?
Advice...
hang off the bike.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 16, 2012, 05:12:54 PM
Advice...
hang off the bike.
thank you . ill try to hang off more..
here's a video of me Ducati Monster 1100EVO at bear mountain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ERMxv6yQNs#) . please point out my mistakes or things i should do differently . thx
First...
dragging a knee doesn't mean you're faster.
Second...
dragging knees on the street is for squids.
Go to the track and learn about body position and going fast.
You'll die trying to be racerx on the street.
Sorry for being off topic.. Where did you mount the camera? And what camera is it? I have a Contour Pro and want to mount it in a similar position to see how smooth my turns are.. Thanks!
Go to a total control class. They will have you dragging a knee at 20 mph in a parking lot with proper form.
Putting a knee down when the rest of your body positon is wrong might be a 'hey guys I got a knee down' show off point, but a fast and capable rider it does not make. There's plenty of folks in my area who consider themselves 'fast' - but they only are good at twisting the throttle in the straight and they have mAAAAsssive chicken strips because they are poor riders.
Be a good rider and then you'll be a fast rider too.
Quote from: sgollapalle on September 17, 2012, 07:08:33 AM
Sorry for being off topic.. Where did you mount the camera? And what camera is it? I have a Contour Pro and want to mount it in a similar position to see how smooth my turns are.. Thanks!
I have the gopro hero 2 . Mounted it on the passenger foot peg. Offcourse u have to tie the peg so it doesn't move up and down. Used fish line.
Quote from: Slide Panda on September 17, 2012, 08:09:27 AM
Go to a total control class. They will have you dragging a knee at 20 mph in a parking lot with proper form.
Putting a knee down when the rest of your body positon is wrong might be a 'hey guys I got a knee down' show off point, but a fast and capable rider it does not make. There's plenty of folks in my area who consider themselves 'fast' - but they only are good at twisting the throttle in the straight and they have mAAAAsssive chicken strips because they are poor riders.
Be a good rider and then you'll be a fast rider too.
I completely understand what u r saying and u r 100% right.
I have no chicken strip left.. And I know I lean a lot but also know that my body position is somehow wrong... That's why I was thinking it has smth to do with the bike... Since all my buddies drag knees on 50~ 60mph on the same corners. Offcourse im not going to push my limits on public roads. That's why I wanted some opinions from more experienced riders.. Thx
dragging knees at 50-60 on the street? Why?
I know guys that way push it past these speeds on the street and purposely don't wear knee pucks to avoid putting their knees down.
Quote from: svp88 on September 17, 2012, 09:34:08 AM
And I know I lean a lot but also know that my body position is somehow wrong...
Don't you think this might be the fundamental issue?
While it's possible there's something not right with your bike, like improper suspension set up for you - many times the problem is *us*. The bike doesn't change, we do. Bike doesn't care - there's plenty of videos of people getting bucked off a bike or falling in some other way... and the bike stays up and keeps happily going around a turn without it's human cargo problem.
And perhaps, them dragging a knee and you not is a sign that you're doing something right, where they are not. Putting a knee down isn't a magical indicator that everything is right. Again, plenty of video and photos floating around of folks with a knee down and crossed up upper body, stiff arms and other issues.
Like this guy:
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/338727_195085933952700_1273673427_o.jpg)
In short - dont get hung up on touching that knee. Figure out if you have a body position, or perhaps even suspension set up issue and correct that first
For humilities sake - here's me at a track day
(http://yuu.smugmug.com/photos/i-6zcVZC7/0/O/i-6zcVZC7.jpg)
- I ran the tires to the bloody edge and was sneaking past folks on bike with 2-3x the horse power in the bends and I *might* have just skimmed, skimmed a slider.
Quote from: svp88 on September 17, 2012, 09:28:23 AM
I have the gopro hero 2 . Mounted it on the passenger foot peg. Offcourse u have to tie the peg so it doesn't move up and down. Used fish line.
Thanks! will have to see how mine would sit there...
You shouldn't ever try and get a knee down. Your knee/elbow/shoulder (for those of us who ride at that level :)) touching should be a byproduct of speed. It's the result of you literally hanging as far off the bike as humanly possible as well as the bike being on the verge of running out of lean angle. I've run (back in my racerX days) with guys on brand new suspension tuned liter bikes and was only a hop skip and a jump behind them, and I'm convinced the only reason they out ran me in the corners (I mean, other than 80hp) was my overall lack of testicular fortitude. My knee was nowhere near the ground, implying I still had plenty more lean angle. I'm 6'4", btw, with big goofy legs.
With the exception of a shitty turn a couple of years ago, I've never had my pegs touch the ground and while on a 5 minute joy ride on my bike a buddy told me that he "got the pegs down around the roundabout". On cold tires. He doesn't ride my bike anymore. Point is, learn how to ride your bike properly and you won't have to worry about sliding your knee in a paltry 60mph turn.
/ brag :)
Quote from: Jarvicious on September 25, 2012, 07:17:38 AM
You shouldn't ever try and get a knee down. Your knee/elbow/shoulder (for those of us who ride at that level :)) touching should be a byproduct of speed. It's the result of you literally hanging as far off the bike as humanly possible as well as the bike being on the verge of running out of lean angle. I've run (back in my racerX days) with guys on brand new suspension tuned liter bikes and was only a hop skip and a jump behind them, and I'm convinced the only reason they out ran me in the corners (I mean, other than 80hp) was my overall lack of testicular fortitude. My knee was nowhere near the ground, implying I still had plenty more lean angle. I'm 6'4", btw, with big goofy legs.
With the exception of a shitty turn a couple of years ago, I've never had my pegs touch the ground and while on a 5 minute joy ride on my bike a buddy told me that he "got the pegs down around the roundabout". On cold tires. He doesn't ride my bike anymore. Point is, learn how to ride your bike properly and you won't have to worry about sliding your knee in a paltry 60mph turn.
/ brag :)
Got it . Thx for the advice! I'll try to forget abt it .. :) at least on public roads... [evil]
This guy's a classic example of hunting for a knee down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1#)
Quote from: Slide Panda on September 26, 2012, 07:48:33 AM
This guy's a classic example of hunting for a knee down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1#)
Yeah.. But without knee pucks? That's stupid...
He's also crossed up, tense and target fixates. Pick a mistake.. he made it.
I would say flagging a knee out in jeans is problems 1, 2, and 3. Problems 4-19 you can put in order as you see fit. to the OP, I have the same pants/jacket as you, I bought the setup with track aspirations but like you, want to see if i can get a little scuff in the meantime...ive never gotten closer than an inch (follower estimated) partly because I also am still learning HOW to hang and partly im terrified of what my reaction will be and the street is the wrong place to do...well...what that guy did.
Body position is huge...but I found that the stock bars on the new gen monsters really prevented me from hanging very far at all...might be my size (5'6") so ive got shorter arms and shorter legs...my legs arent getting as close to the road, and my outside arm actually restricts my "hang off" range... Clipons gave me a lot more range of motion by bringing that outside arm closer to the centerline of the bike. Still, I was always told to try and "kiss your mirror" to get a better body position... (people that know what they are talking about...not me...can confirm/deny/correct this as they wish.) Another fine point...your pegs...I had a "fear of slipping" my outside foot off the pegs, I got some super grippy rizomas and it was a huge confidence boost.
EDIT: BTW...Use all that advice at a riding school or track day and not on the street...and Ill try and do the same...
Looking at your video it seems like you might want to concentrate on having good form first and getting your knee down much later if at all? It looked like you really didn't come off the bike much in trying to get your knee down and so the bike had to lean further or for you than it would have had to if you were positioned better. It also looked like you were coming off the bike late in the turn for the amount you did move off the bike but what I noticed most of all was your proximity to the on coming traffic as you leaned further in their direction in the pursuit of puck wear. I wondered if you noticed that but like it was said, a parking lot is a good place to practice if you've got to have your knee down and it's safer.
im short legged, if i drag a knee on the street i am doing one of 3 things
1) i am going way to freaking slow
2) I am going way to freaking fast
3) i am about to crash was the first thing to touch was my damn knee.
As others have said here I think it's a waste of time "trying" to get a knee down on the street.
Looked to me like the guy on the R6 panicked when his boot touched down.
As far as critiquing your ride vid the only thing I saw was your apparent use of the clutch on upshifts. If you wanna get there faster pulling in the clutch slows you down. Learn how to shift up without the clutch. It's easy, fun and doesn't hurt your bike.
Quote from: Blackout on September 28, 2012, 08:27:06 PM
As far as critiquing your ride vid the only thing I saw was your apparent use of the clutch on upshifts. If you wanna get there faster pulling in the clutch slows you down. Learn how to shift up without the clutch. It's easy, fun and doesn't hurt your bike.
yeah ive been practicing that.. but i have to practice a little more bcos the 1100evo is poppin wheelies on every gear .. not used to it yet :)
Quote from: Slide Panda on September 26, 2012, 07:48:33 AM
This guy's a classic example of hunting for a knee down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL547QPaR1c&hd=1#)
Ouch! Track bike anyone?
Seems like a great place to talk about "knee down" riding.
Since I was 14 (I'm 37 now), on the street, I've gotten my knee down exactly once.
I had about 1hr sleep in the past 48, was just trying to get home, was used to a certain pace, and I ran into a familiar corner at my usual speed (waaaayyy too fast for my condition). The rear washed out real good, I dug my knee into the pavement... And totally saved it !!! ;D
Except, a fraction of a second later, once the rear caught, the front washed out :o I was on the throttle, but not hard enough for the situation... My body parts were in all the wrong locations... after departing the bike, I almost had the perfect baseball "slide to home", except my throttle hand index and middle fingers got caught between the front brake lever and the grip when the bike hit the ground, and I gave up a couple of ribs for the incident.
My morals:
1) I get some rest... If not, I stay home, today's not a good day to go out and ride
2) For me, knee down seems to be the first thing that happens before the rest of me goes down [laugh] so knee down on the track, OK find the road..., on the street though, it's a last resort...
I think the only thing I did right in the entire incident was to look exactly where I wanted to go...
Monsters are harder to ctach if ridden well. [thumbsup]
I drag my knee at the track without trying to or thinking about it. On the street I have done it twice by accident on sportbikes, 916 and YZF750. I have never done it on my Monster. On the Monster, I find the toe slider can touch quite regularly, even with my foot raised on the peg. On an old Monster, I find the toe slider protudes just past the footpeg when I'm on the balls of my feet. I dont ride hard on the street.
On the street, its REALLY hard to put a knee down because of many factors. One of which is the limited amount of legal space you can operate the bike in. One lane is around 10-13 feet, how are you gonna safely scrape your knee with the apex is in the path of the oncoming car?
On the track ,its REALLY easy to learn.
from what i understand, the honed track riders and pros are never trying for a knee. they are trying to get around and upright as fast as possible. Shouldnt that be your goal as well? So big whoop, you get your knee down, did you get smoked in the process?
Quote from: memper on December 23, 2012, 06:56:46 PM
fthey are trying to get around and upright as fast as possible.
Correct - especially on the big bikes. You can spend more time on the power and more of your power the more traction you have. You have them most traction you will have when the bike is up n down. I can't recall what pro rider said it, but basically he said that he views a track as a series of connected straights and his job is to find the way to make each as long as possible so he can spend the most time on the gas.
Smaller bikes, one rides a bit more differently as a Ninja 250 isn't going to break the rear loose as easily if you gas it in a turn as say and R1 would. So the little bikes are more about coner entry speeds and keeping that speed - but that's a whole different discussion.
Quote from: Slide Panda on December 27, 2012, 06:34:37 AM
Smaller bikes, one rides a bit more differently as a Ninja 250 isn't going to break the rear loose as easily if you gas it in a turn as say and R1 would. So the litter bikes are more about coner entry speeds and keeping that speed - but that's a whole different discussion.
Are you saying the liter bikes are more about corner speed (can't tell if the "litter" typo is supposed to be liter or little).
Small displacement bikes are more about carrying corner speed because you don't have the horsepower to get out of the corner otherwise. Liter bikes are more point and shoot since they have the grunt, so you can deal with lower corner speed.
Wow.. fumble fingers which I corrected.
Yes Little is what I meant. Smaller displacement lighter machines like a ninja 250 are about that corner speed vs the point-n-shoot of a 1000
Quote from: memper on December 23, 2012, 06:56:46 PM
from what i understand, the honed track riders and pros are never trying for a knee. they are trying to get around and upright as fast as possible. Shouldnt that be your goal as well? So big whoop, you get your knee down, did you get smoked in the process?
+1
Knee down is a feeler gauge and by product of lean angle and body position. Work on the things the track instructors sre saying and it will happen by itself. Good luck.
Quote from: koko64 on December 27, 2012, 11:13:43 AM
+1
Knee down is a feeler gauge and by product of lean angle and body position. Work on the things the track instructors sre saying and it will happen by itself. Good luck.
+1
I just got my first 1 piece. second ride in it today, getting used to getting my knees out instead of being tucked. I was in a nice long smooth sweeper on Angeles Crest Highway in LA today and got my knee down for the first time. I wasn't thinking about it. I just had it out and was focused on the turn, body position, looking through the turn, and "crrrssshhhhtt" knee down!
On public roads, yes, tisk tisk, but traffic in that area after a turn off is non existent besides other rides (times 10 on non-weekends).
Don't TRY to get your knee down. hang of the bike, stick ur leg out, focus on the turn, and it'll happen.
Having ridden with quite a few CHP's I can offer up one more reason not to hang off the bike on the streets; Tickets!
When a cop sees you coming around a corner hanging off the bike trying to drag a knee (regardless of speed) he thinks "There is a squid I need to get off the road" and on go the lights.
When he sees a rider in full fear coming around a corner sitting on the bike (regardless of speed if wearing gear) he thinks "He was a bit quick but at least he is riding smart and solid" and off he goes to pursue lunch or a doughnut.
There is a huge difference between riding on a track and a quick street pace.
Quote from: Skybarney on May 07, 2013, 08:08:35 AM
Having ridden with quite a few CHP's I can offer up one more reason not to hang off the bike on the streets; Tickets!
When a cop sees you coming around a corner hanging off the bike trying to drag a knee (regardless of speed) he thinks "There is a squid I need to get off the road" and on go the lights.
When he sees a rider in full fear coming around a corner sitting on the bike (regardless of speed if wearing gear) he thinks "He was a bit quick but at least he is riding smart and solid" and off he goes to pursue lunch or a doughnut.
There is a huge difference between riding on a track and a quick street pace.
+1 on this.
I pulled a hooligan pass the other day (months ago) in a full hi-viz suit, two-up, with the pillion in gear also... right in front of a LEO with jurisdiction...
all I got for my trouble was my license plate through the computer (on the move) and a bit of a startlement when he charged up beside me to give the "slow down now!" gesture. Then he moved on (he probably didn't have radar on me, but it was a hooligan move).
On my only moto ticket, I got downgraded at the scene to the AZ "speed tax in protest of the double nickel" because I wear gear (from 20+over).
Quote from: svp88 on September 17, 2012, 09:34:08 AM
That's why I was thinking it has smth to do with the bike...
http://youtu.be/qdbrIrFxas0 (http://youtu.be/qdbrIrFxas0)
Quote from: Jarvicious on September 25, 2012, 07:17:38 AM
I've never had my pegs touch the ground and while on a 5 minute joy ride on my bike a buddy told me that he "got the pegs down around the roundabout". On cold tires. He doesn't ride my bike anymore. P
[laugh]
Here's how to drag a knee...
Harley Davidson Lowside Motorcycle Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYxU_lYBHpY#)