What could possess a man to gun down children?....I just can't wrap my mind around it. My prayers go out to everyone in that community.
I couldn't deal with that tonight so I went to see the hobbit tonight with a bottle of merlot and lived in a fantasy world for two hours.
One of two things are going to come out. Shooter was abused and/or he was mentally ill. No sane person would do that. Very sad for the victims. :'(
Incomprehensible.
I feel for the EMS workers that had to respond. Never a good scene when little ones are involved. Peace be with them all tonight.
My thoughts on the matter:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/make the beast with two backs-everything-nation-reports,30743/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/make%20the%20beast%20with%20two%20backs-everything-nation-reports,30743/)
Regarding the now deceased Principal..
She frequently tweeted photos from her job..
Four days before she died, she posted a photo of two kindergarten girls paying for groceries over a toy cash register in a classroom. She called them "kinders" and saw them as "74 new opportunities to inspire lifelong learning!"
Yesterday, my 18 mo old was helping his teacher make mom and dad a Christmas ornament. I imagine most of these kids were doing something related to Christmas this morning as well.
Yes, it's truly "incomprehensible".
:'(
Quote from: Raux on December 14, 2012, 11:50:40 PM
News is coming out:
Guy was 20 year old Adam Lanza, son of a teacher's aide from that school.
He killed his mother at home, stole her guns, and went to the school and killed her entire class and attacked the office.
some back story:
he apparently had a form of autism.
his parents divorced three years prior with him being left with the mother and the old son, who was originally identified as the shooter, moving with the dad to Hoboken.
Just so everyone knows, autism is not a 'mental illness'. It's a developmental disorder.
This has nothing to do with autism.
Quote from: Raux on December 15, 2012, 03:16:35 AM
just providing the facts, not judgement.
I'm not sure I'd rely on the media for 'facts'. You got a link?
I just did a quick search on BBC, MSNBC and CNN, and CNN is the only one that makes any reference of autism, and that comes from "a law enforcement official, who spoke under condition of anonymity". I wouldn't call that a fact yet.
I have no idea what any of you are talking about.
I dont want to know.
Its a defence mechanism.
Some of the interviews I watched today were gut wrenching.
EDIT
I was disgusted by some of the news coverage of this hideous incident. Still photographs of people, reacting to this tragedy, set to music. Let these people grieve in peace without being spectacles.
My kids have been getting huge hugs just about every hour today. Cant imagine what the parents of the victims are going through.
RIP
Quote from: rgramjet on December 15, 2012, 05:50:41 PM
I was disgusted by some of the news coverage of this hideous incident. Still photographs of people, reacting to this tragedy, set to music. Let these people grieve in peace without being spectacles.
Agreed.
Dear CNN,
please send Wolf Blitzer to a remote location in Greenland while this news is being covered. Argh..where's a transcript for this guy's comments today. FOX is bad enough. Talk about sensational reporting.
I remember very clear instances of gun violence in high school.
This included being mugged at gun point right outside of school, shot at and losing friends to it.
This was at a much older age than these little people in grade school.
I still remember the instances that emotions of anger and fear that overcame my coping mechanisms in my teens. These were hard things to work through as a young person. Morning, mid-day or night, it was never a particular time of day that terror struck, never a time of day you could predict which carried a higher risk of becoming a victim of violence. The one thing I do know about those days is that I could predict the neighborhood in which this was likely of to occur in. Unfortunately for me, this was not something I could avoid. This was the neighborhood I lived in, a crime-ridden inner city neighborhood where drugs, gangs and prostitution were right outside your front door. When I got my chance, I got out. Far away from that place, far away from the violence and the neighborhood that fostered all the evil that created so many victims. And still does.
I can't even begin to imagine how these little kids can even begin to work through this. In my experience, the neighborhood was the best predictor of violence. These children, families, they all live in what seems to be such a perfect little place in America. What is the predictor of violence for them? How do you find ways to decrease the likelihood of becoming a victim? These are rhetorical questions for me. Because I don't think there is a way to know. Just like the shooting in Aurora, the setting seems so random.
Such a sad story.
Prayers go out to all the victims, friends and family. May God find peace to fill the hurt in your hearts.
Gerald is the worst reporter in the world. [bang]
this has been going around on FB...
Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....
"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
I don't disagree with him at all...in fact...even though the new DSM-V is coming out with autism and other whole range of "spectrum disorders" reclassified into a new family together...I don't think it does anything without some real understanding and research and help...some of that is in fact due to fundage and some of that is through public education and outreach
I just shared that on debilbook too, writing that I agreed and if anyone doesn't tell me why and I'll tell you why you're a moron. Hoping I'll trim some unnecessary "friends" by the end of the day.
I agree with that as well Zooom
Misinformation and misconceptions piss me off.
The TV media is reporting of this maniacs Aspergers diagnosis like it's a cause of the incident.
The truth is very different, and due to my 'interest' in the subject of autism I'll try to rebut this.
Contrary to popular belief...
QuoteThe sources said investigators believe Adam Lanza's isolation and social awkwardness were consistent with Asperger's syndrome. Asperger's is a disorder that is part of the autism spectrum. It is marked by difficulty with social interaction. Many with Asperger's are otherwise high-functioning people. There is no pre-disposition toward violence, experts said.
"It's very important for people to know that there is absolutely no correlation between the diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome and a predilection toward violent behavior,'' said Dr. Harold Schwartz, chief psychiatrist at the Institute of Living in Hartford.
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,2311968.story (http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,2311968.story)
So if you want to discuss this tragedy leave the inaccuracies out of it, please.
And Morgan Freeman is spot on BTW. It was reported hours after this tragedy that a shooter in Oklahoma was caught before he could act. Did you see that on TV? Of course not...nothing sensational about it. Yet if the morons at CNN or Fox news reported that, might it stop the next asshole? We'll never know...no one died and we all know that sensational sells. [bang]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248708/Sammie-Eaglebear-Chavez-Oklahoma-student-arrested-plotting-bomb-shoot-students-high-school.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248708/Sammie-Eaglebear-Chavez-Oklahoma-student-arrested-plotting-bomb-shoot-students-high-school.html)
Quote from: zooom on December 16, 2012, 06:22:00 AM
this has been going around on FB...
Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....
"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
I don't disagree with him at all...in fact...even though the new DSM-V is coming out with autism and other whole range of "spectrum disorders" reclassified into a new family together...I don't think it does anything without some real understanding and research and help...some of that is in fact due to fundage and some of that is through public education and outreach
Plus 1
The media does treat mass mayhem like it is a Guinness World Record event
and if we know one thing for sure about this nation....
there are no shortages of unhinged people who don't even remotely have a casual relationship with reality
Quote from: ducpainter on December 16, 2012, 08:40:08 AM
Misinformation and misconceptions piss me off.
The TV media is reporting of this maniacs Aspergers diagnosis like it's a cause of the incident.
The truth is very different, and due to my 'interest' in the subject of autism I'll try to rebut this.
Contrary to popular belief...
So if you want to discuss this tragedy leave the inaccuracies out of it, please.
All the reports I have seen have not blamed the shooting on Aspergers, they have just pointed toward the Aspergers as being the reason Lanza was socially unaccepting and unaccepted.
As a side note, Snopes says it is unlikely that Morgan Freeman said that. However, I completely agree with the statement, regardless of who really did say it.
Another intelligent response to the tragedy:
http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage (http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage)
4 Awful Reactions to Sandy Hook School Shooting - And Thoughts on a Better Response
PhilB
As Phil said, Morgan Freeman did not write or release that statement.
Horrible shit... understatement of the year. [roll] [bang] That's about all can say. :'(
Did we forget the victims? It seems to me that's the sole focus for now. I wish those affected strength and all the love they deserve.
Quote from: PhilB on December 16, 2012, 10:25:36 AM
As a side note, Snopes says it is unlikely that Morgan Freeman said that. However, I completely agree with the statement, regardless of who really did say it.
Another intelligent response to the tragedy:
http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage (http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage)
4 Awful Reactions to Sandy Hook School Shooting - And Thoughts on a Better Response
PhilB
That was just a way for you to sidestep the no politics rule.
Quote from: ducpainter on December 16, 2012, 08:40:08 AM
Misinformation and misconceptions piss me off.
The TV media is reporting of this maniacs Aspergers diagnosis like it's a cause
So if you want to discuss this tragedy leave the inaccuracies out of it.
I'm with you on this one. We too have an Autistic child and all this will do is misrepresent those with the disorder. Wth the media only giving short sound bites here and there, people will piece together what they think is fact on the disorder and will look at all Autistic kids this way or that way.
I have no kids, but this has sickened me. Not really any sensible think to say. :'(
All day long it's been 90/10 in the shooters favor. Such bullshit! Screw that indignant bastard, I only wish he would have committed suicide first.
I am still unable to wrap my mind around this.
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hochsprung, 47
Madeleine Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Rousseau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto,27
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6
:'(
Quote from: ducpainter on December 16, 2012, 08:40:08 AM
Misinformation and misconceptions piss me off.
The TV media is reporting of this maniacs Aspergers diagnosis like it's a cause of the incident.
The truth is very different, and due to my 'interest' in the subject of autism I'll try to rebut this.
Contrary to popular belief...
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,2311968.story (http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,2311968.story)
So if you want to discuss this tragedy leave the inaccuracies out of it, please.
Quote from: ItsaDuc on December 16, 2012, 06:16:20 PM
I'm with you on this one. We too have an Autistic child and all this will do is misrepresent those with the disorder. Wth the media only giving short sound bites here and there, people will piece together what they think is fact on the disorder and will look at all Autistic kids this way or that way.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/12/17/asperger_s_and_newtown_school_shooting_autistic_does_not_mean_violent.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/12/17/asperger_s_and_newtown_school_shooting_autistic_does_not_mean_violent.html)
if you are looking for a reason i dont' think you will find it, nobody will know why except for the dead guy that shot everyone.
evil happens, it sucks and with the internet and daily news 24/7 you will just hear about it quicker.
its not really the media's fault in a way. mainly because the public is the one that demands this reporting. If the media didn't report on this and tell you all the gory details, at some point someone would be saying "hey i want to know more info so that this doesn't happen again" or something like that. and really people in a way want all the gory details, if they ended it with just "there was a school shooting, those that were affected have been called but we aren't going to tell you more" you would be saying they are trying to hide something.
so the media is damned if they do and damned if they don't. nobody will ever be happy.
terrible tradgedy. rip to all.
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 16, 2012, 10:55:58 PM
I am still unable to wrap my mind around this.
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hochsprung, 47
Madeleine Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Rousseau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto,27
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6
As sad as it is , thanks for that list. I'll look at it and think about those people and wonder what life stories they may have had.
The perpetrator on the other hand, can disappear into the abyss of obscurity.
As sick of a human being as the shooter was can one group of human beings be anymore lowlife than the Westboro Baptist Church? They are planning on protesting the funerals just because of CO's gay marriage laws. Disgusting.
Quote from: metallimonster on December 17, 2012, 01:22:14 PM
As sick of a human being as the shooter was can one group of human beings be anymore lowlife than the Westboro Baptist Church? They are planning on protesting the funerals just because of CO's gay marriage laws. Disgusting.
IMHO....they are in a class of their own.....
Dated, but worth a read.
Roger Ebert on how the press reports mass killings (http://boingboing.net/2012/12/15/roger-ebert-on-how-the-press-r.html)
Quote from: metallimonster on December 17, 2012, 01:22:14 PM
As sick of a human being as the shooter was can one group of human beings be anymore lowlife than the Westboro Baptist Church? They are planning on protesting the funerals just because of CO's gay marriage laws. Disgusting.
Hope to see that hate group on their way out soon.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/protest-westboro-baptist-church-erupts-185802032.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/protest-westboro-baptist-church-erupts-185802032.html)
Over the weekend, the hacktivist group Anonymous posted what it said was church members' personal information. In a video posted on Vimeo, the hacker group accused the organization of "breeding hatred" and adding, "We will destroy you. We are coming."
The Anonymous site has also directed readers to an online petition, found at a portal on the White House website, asking that the church's tax-exempt status be investigated. Over 9,000 signatures have been added.
The Westboro Baptist Church is better-known for homophobic displays, suing people and picketing funerals than for providing Christian care to a community. Due to their harassment and politicking, their IRS tax-exempt status should be immediately investigated
Another petition, found at the same portal, wants the Westboro Baptist Church to be identified as a hate group, not a religious group. It notes that the church has been designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and has "repeatedly displayed the actions typical of hate groups." That petition has received over 107,000 signatures so far.
Quote from: metallimonster on December 17, 2012, 01:22:14 PM
As sick of a human being as the shooter was can one group of human beings be anymore lowlife than the Westboro Baptist Church? They are planning on protesting the funerals just because of CO's gay marriage laws. Disgusting.
Really? Thats madness! You got a link?
Nice to see God's loving grace demonstrated by His "children".
Please...
no politics or religion.
Sorry. You were quick. (Like a puma). ;D
Quote from: koko64 on December 17, 2012, 02:06:15 PM
Sorry. You were quick. (Like a puma). ;D
More...everywhere...
like shit and flies. ;)
Ops..sorry DP..I don't think most of us here would even put that group in the religious category.
Quote from: IZ on December 17, 2012, 02:14:52 PM
Ops..sorry DP..I don't think most of us here would even put that group in the religious category.
I agree they're not, but it's a no win situation as they are a tax exempt church and the discussion was turning to that status.
Let's try to keep this about the 20 babies and 6 adults that were gunned down by an animal.
Quote from: hbliam on December 16, 2012, 04:12:40 PMQuote from: PhilB on December 16, 2012, 10:25:36 AM
As a side note, Snopes says it is unlikely that Morgan Freeman said that. However, I completely agree with the statement, regardless of who really did say it.
Another intelligent response to the tragedy:
http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage (http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage)
4 Awful Reactions to Sandy Hook School Shooting - And Thoughts on a Better Response
PhilB
That was just a way for you to sidestep the no politics rule.
What? The first part of my post was simply a factcheck on something another person posted, and wasn't political.
The second part was to reference an intelligent and unbiased response to the tragedy, which wasn't political either.
You and I both know what happens when we get into it, so I suggest we don't.
PhilB
That would be a pleasant change.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[popcorn]
Quote from: ducpainter on December 17, 2012, 02:26:28 PM
That would be a pleasant change.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dang!
Got my popcorn ready and everything!!!
Was hoping for more of a dramatic exchange. :P
Remember the victims. This is what's important, more so than the little prick. As was stated, we will never know the reason just that evils exists
Quote from: ducatiz on December 17, 2012, 01:45:32 PM
Dated, but worth a read.
Roger Ebert on how the press reports mass killings (http://boingboing.net/2012/12/15/roger-ebert-on-how-the-press-r.html)
Right still is...
no matter how old.
Quote from: PhilB on December 17, 2012, 02:22:19 PM
That was just a way for you to sidestep the no politics rule.What? The first part of my post was simply a factcheck on something another person posted, and wasn't political.
The second part was to reference an intelligent and unbiased response to the tragedy, which wasn't political either.
You and I both know what happens when we get into it, so I suggest we don't.
PhilB
The first part was fine. The second part was a link to response that was political on a libertarian website.
RE: Westboro: they tried their antics in Long Beach, CA a year or two ago. The local high school kids came out in force, drowning out everything they said and blocking the view of their propaganda. They left after a short time and did not return. Hopefully the locals in CT will do the same if confronted with Westboro.
Just let it go...
Anonymous make the beast with two backsin Rocks!
Since this kid plotted the whole thing, I bet the FBI pulls up some info related to Andrew Kehoe. I know we've had a link to this before but I didn't read the whole story until last night. This guy was evil!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster)
It looks like Kehoe planned on killing everyone in town. Luckily, the other bomb didn't go off.
What's left of his remains are buried in St. Johns. I never knew that. My uncle lives across the street from the cemetary. I know it's weird but I may have to wander over there when I go home for a visit.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=kehoe&GSiman=1&GScid=1167&GRid=7845578& (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=kehoe&GSiman=1&GScid=1167&GRid=7845578&)
Hallelujah - The Voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO64urOFNaY#)
Ooff :'(
[clap] [clap] [clap]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/22/newtown-shooting-new-details_n_2351594.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/22/newtown-shooting-new-details_n_2351594.html)
Eric Clapton - Circus Left Town (RARE) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veGF9Vjo_IE#)
:'(
I remember that Unplugged....he was still personally progressing and plugging through the loss of his son IIRC...
Quote from: zooom on December 24, 2012, 05:45:18 AM
I remember that Unplugged....he was still personally progressing and plugging through the loss of his son IIRC...
The loss of a child...any child...is unfathomable to a parent.
It's a tough row to hoe.
it is indeed...no parent should be putting their child in the ground....
what the hell is going on in this country?
now THIS...........
http://news.yahoo.com/firefighters-shot-dead-upstate-ny-fire-150346447--abc-news-topstories.html (http://news.yahoo.com/firefighters-shot-dead-upstate-ny-fire-150346447--abc-news-topstories.html)
My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the murdered children (CT.) and volunteer firefighters (NY.) this morning.
I am a volunteer firefighter and the job is hard enough without this....
Again. :-\
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/22/us-usa-shooting-pennsylvania-idUSBRE8BK0Y520121222 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/22/us-usa-shooting-pennsylvania-idUSBRE8BK0Y520121222)
How many people want to go out in a blaze of disaster? After the 24x7 coverage in Newtown..... i guess we are finding out.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 25, 2012, 03:04:22 PM
How many people want to go out in a blaze of disaster? After the 24x7 coverage in Newtown..... i guess we are finding out.
The Mayan's really were on to something.
No they weren't either. Pretending this sort of thing has some supernatural origin does nothing toward figuring it out or solving anything. This is a problem with mental illness, and needs to be looked at under that light, so we can try to figure out someday how to detect the symptoms of this in people before they get to this point. It's very rare for people to get to this point and do this kind of thing, but it's extremely tragic when it does happen, so we need to be thinking about how to find and help these people *before* they explode.
PhilB
I really don't think he was being serious.
Quote from: hbliam on December 26, 2012, 11:00:45 PM
I really don't think he was being serious.
+1, but I do agree with you Phil...and the media is doing nothing to help in treating the real problem...just in trying to feed mass hysteria of bandaids put on other wounds...
+1 agree with Zoom
Quote from: hbliam on December 26, 2012, 11:00:45 PMI really don't think he was being serious.
Of course. But it's along the same lines as, and makes no more sense than, plenty of other people who place the blame on various supernatural beings or effects, and the answer to all of those is the same as what I posted. I figured that was as good as any of a post to note that in response to, so as not to wind up with a fight over religion, which we're not supposed to do here.
PhilB
Quote from: PhilB on December 27, 2012, 06:42:15 PM
... makes no more sense than, plenty of other people who place the blame on various supernatural beings or effects...
PhilB
or people who blame the media
Quote from: Ducatamount on December 28, 2012, 05:02:22 AM
or people who blame the media
I blame the media for sensationalism and blowing things out of proportion without facts because of ratings and trying to get the scoop as it were...
Sadly if it bleeds it leads. No dignity among the media these days.
For the conspiracy guys.. Heard this kids father and the father of dude in the movie theatre shooting where both to testify in some big bank case..
Quote from: cokey on December 31, 2012, 11:37:54 PM
For the conspiracy guys.. Heard this kids father and the father of dude in the movie theatre shooting where both to testify in some big bank case..
And neither are.
Quote from: Ducatamount on December 28, 2012, 05:02:22 AM
or people who blame the media
Blame the mom for first bringing guns into the house with a person under-roof that had mental issues, second for allowing said person operate them, third for allowing unsecured/unsupervised access and fourth for allowing her son to isolate himself and play COD all day.
I'm all for freedoms, but along with freedom comes some make the beast with two backsing responsibility. Mom's fault. Period. Stop. The end.
Quote from: Drjones on January 01, 2013, 06:21:01 AM
Blame the mom for first bringing guns into the house with a person under-roof that had mental issues, second for allowing said person operate them, third for allowing unsecured/unsupervised access and fourth for allowing her son to isolate himself and play COD all day.
I'm all for freedoms, but along with freedom comes some make the beast with two backsing responsibility. Mom's fault. Period. Stop. The end.
Yup. Lock them up when not in use or being carried. Mental issues of the kid are secondary.
Quote from: Drjones on January 01, 2013, 06:21:01 AMBlame the mom for first bringing guns into the house with a person under-roof that had mental issues, second for allowing said person operate them, third for allowing unsecured/unsupervised access and fourth for allowing her son to isolate himself and play COD all day.
I'm all for freedoms, but along with freedom comes some make the beast with two backsing responsibility. Mom's fault. Period. Stop. The end.
Largely agreed. The young man himself is certainly not blameless, though, regardless of his mother's actions.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 01, 2013, 09:22:51 AMYup. Lock them up when not in use or being carried. Mental issues of the kid are secondary.
If you reply to a post with a "Yup", it is then considered reasonable to actually agree with it. Drjones post did not blame the guns; he blamed the mother. Mental issues of the kid are not at all secondary -- they are the *primary* cause. The mother's contribution to those mental issues is highly relevant, whether she actively caused the issues, or just failed to get them treated properly.
The guns are a secondary issue, at most.
PhilB
Quote from: PhilB on January 01, 2013, 11:47:50 AM
Largely agreed. The young man himself is certainly not blameless, though, regardless of his mother's actions.
If you reply to a post with a "Yup", it is then considered reasonable to actually agree with it. Drjones post did not blame the guns; he blamed the mother. Mental issues of the kid are not at all secondary -- they are the *primary* cause. The mother's contribution to those mental issues is highly relevant, whether she actively caused the issues, or just failed to get them treated properly.
The guns are a secondary issue, at most.
PhilB
So by this reasoning if the mom had collected, say, flintlock pistols, the outcome would have been the same?
or if she were into pyrotechnics and he used a bag full of home-made napalm bottles? What would've been worse?
Root cause; not tools or effects.
Since this thread was about a tragedy, and not the relative danger of technology...
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 16, 2012, 10:55:58 PM
I am still unable to wrap my mind around this.
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hochsprung, 47
Madeleine Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Rousseau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto,27
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6
and you guys can't seem to understand that...
Quote from: ducpainter on December 17, 2012, 02:19:25 PM
<snip>
Let's try to keep this about the 20 babies and 6 adults that were gunned down by an animal.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2648/3831713734_089475e450.jpg)