So recently I've been trying to educate myself a bit more about the history of monster's and how they've changed over the years and it got me wondering which was the best one ever made? At least by pure opinion or maybe not so much.
I thought I'd be a fun topic. Plus, me trying to learn it might be cool to see if there is a general consensus on which year and model was better accepted.
Anyways, if you could post your favorite year/model/color scheme. Also, post a picture and maybe explain why it's your favorite.
Thanks!
Ps - I did a quick search "best monster ever made" and nothing came up.
Easy. The best one made is the one you're riding. Or the one you've been lusting after.
The 2009 M1100S. It has the ultimate development of the motor, the best suspension, mine is Ducati Red, and it is not burdened by the excess electronic gizmo-crackery of the Evo version.
Wile the headlight is a bit problematical, the rest of the bike makes up for it.
Also, it is the one that I ride!
+1 to Spidey
My vote is for my old one...2001 M900. Fantastic motor, good fuel injection, OK suspension on the S model, classic design. [thumbsup]
I agree with Spidey's comment....but aside from that...the purity and rawness and perfection of a 94 M900 is a hard bet to beat!
No-brainier. 2010 1100S. Great suspension, and makes big power. Red of course.
Red 2000 M900i.e.
Has nothing to do with it being my first Ducati...or that it led me to this bunch of miscreants...or that I rode it whenever and whereever I could.
/thread
Hands down S4rs or S4rt. There's not even a inch of a doubt. :)
The very last of the M1100s. Just like my bike but with ABS (I've never ridden a bike with ABS but I cant imagine having the capability to be a bad thing).
None of that nasty water works plumbing (which IMO belongs behind a faring where its ugliness cannot be seen).
Ohlins suspenders.
pick up this book-
http://www.amazon.com/The-Ducati-Monster-Bible-Falloon/dp/1845843215/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370469652&sr=8-1&keywords=ducati+monster+bible (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ducati-Monster-Bible-Falloon/dp/1845843215/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370469652&sr=8-1&keywords=ducati+monster+bible)
lots of good reading about the different models
Quote from: ungeheuer on June 05, 2013, 02:28:03 PM
The very last of the M1100s. Just like my bike but with ABS (I've never ridden a bike with ABS but I cant imagine having the capability to be a bad thing).
None of that nasty water works plumbing (which IMO belongs behind a faring where its ugliness cannot be seen).
Ohlins suspenders.
My personal opinion is that the brakes on the ABS monsters do not provide as good of feel as non abs. I believe it is attributed to the extra brake line routing to the ABS module. I cannot speak for any other model though.
But I believe the best monster ever made was the the S4RS. Over the top power, crazy radial brakes, gorgeous paint, comfortable riding, awesome suspension, and no nanny electronics.
Quote from: nickshelby500kr on June 05, 2013, 05:50:25 PMMy personal opinion is that the brakes on the ABS monsters do not provide as good of feel as non abs...........
Interesting.
In that case the best Monster
is the '09 M1100s 8).
Pffft.
My Monster S4 is obviously the best.
8)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k629/roggie555/5843FAB0-E647-4BD7-BBD8-3C916E57B0F5-4940-0000093303E9198B.jpg)
2003-2005 1000S. They have all the classic good looks of the classic air-cooled Monsters. Steel tanks that won't deform. All the power you need from the 1000DS engine and the S models had adjustable suspension.
Quote from: ZILBERT on June 05, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
Red 2000 M900i.e.
Has nothing to do with it being my first Ducati...or that it led me to this bunch of miscreants...or that I rode it whenever and whereever I could.
/thread
+1 to all the above
S4RS of course
(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad269/richduc/ducati2.jpg) (http://s942.photobucket.com/user/richduc/media/ducati2.jpg.html)
(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad269/richduc/Ducati.jpg) (http://s942.photobucket.com/user/richduc/media/Ducati.jpg.html)
Monsters with red full trellis frame are the best looking ones. S4Rs is the best monster ever made IMO
Quote from: Triple J on June 05, 2013, 11:48:18 AM
+1 to Spidey
My vote is for my old one...2001 M900. Fantastic motor, good fuel injection, OK suspension on the S model, classic design. [thumbsup]
I do not concure.
mine is
Quote from: richard on June 05, 2013, 08:32:59 PM
S4RS of course
(http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-HBSXRbk/1/X2/i-HBSXRbk-X2.jpg)
I think we are moving towards a consensus. ;D
Best Handling: 1100S
Best Power: S4Rt
Best Looks: M900 Chromo
Best Monster: 1100S, last dry clutch, most power out of the 2v, updated yet true to the original sketches of a minimalistic motor and frame.
So far it's looking like the 1100s and the S4RS are the leaders!
I have not been on a lot of other Ducati's but my S4Rs gives me everything I need in a bike. Flat out fun to ride.
had the 2001 m900, 2001 750, 2006 S2R 800 and now have the 2006 S4r.
The fun factor of pure Monster for me is the 2001 900 but for all around performance and STEEL tank (no plastic :P) it's the S4r hands down. I rode the 1100 and although fun it was very uncomfortable for me.
I loved my 01 900S but when it got stolen I decided on an 05 S4R over the RS. I love te power of the RS but I'll never really use it and I would always be worried about the tank swelling.
I have owned 4 monsters an S4, M900 ,M750 and an M1000 I have also ridden many others including all the new ones and currently own the S4 for last 8 years an M750 for 10 years and a 750ss ,
If God came down and said you can only ever ever have one bike for the rest of eternity of any make it would have to be the Monster 750 simply the most accomplished perfecr all rounder of any bike i have owned in last 40 years and 84 bikes i doubt i could ever sell it .
If/when I get the fueling under 4k RPM sorted a bit better, I can't imagine a Monster I would like more than my 1100 EVO. It's phucquing (phonetic cussing used for emphasis) perfect except for that glitch. Wish I had someone local that could do a Rexxer tune specifically for my bike.
While I believe it's incredibly interesting to hear everyone's opinions and reasoning (great thread!), I don't believe there is an answer to the question.
I like carburetors - I like to be able to take them out, wrench on them, be able to diagnose fueling problems... it's just fun for me. John Smith likes fuel injection, he lives in an apartment with a parking garage down the street and doesn't want to have to worry about maintenance. Billy Bob wants to go fast, he likes the S4Rs. Billy Bob's wife likes to feel safe, she places more value on awesome handling features (ABS, TC, etc.).
Point is, over the course of the Monster line's existence, it seems Ducati has done a great job of recognizing market needs and building new Monsters to fit those needs. So, I suppose the answer is, there isn't a perfect, end-all-be-all Monster... but there is a perfect Monster for every rider.
Anyone agree?
QuoteJohn Smith likes fuel injection, he lives in an apartment with a parking garage down the street and doesn't want to have to worry about maintenance.
Weird. How did you know my real name? Actually, John Smith is my dad, I'm Tim. Also you are all overlooking the 2006 M620D. It's just about the cheapest way to sneak into the prestigious Ducati owner fraternity, and it's still devastatingly stylish even on a budget. The peppy motor does everything I ask it to do, and the lower power is more practical for around town riding, and more forgiving for a new rider, while still providing enough power to get you into trouble when you want to.
Quote from: ChrisK on June 06, 2013, 06:56:28 AM
While I believe it's incredibly interesting to hear everyone's opinions and reasoning (great thread!), I don't believe there is an answer to the question.
I like carburetors - I like to be able to take them out, wrench on them, be able to diagnose fueling problems... it's just fun for me. John Smith likes fuel injection, he lives in an apartment with a parking garage down the street and doesn't want to have to worry about maintenance. Billy Bob wants to go fast, he likes the S4Rs. Billy Bob's wife likes to feel safe, she places more value on awesome handling features (ABS, TC, etc.).
Point is, over the course of the Monster line's existence, it seems Ducati has done a great job of recognizing market needs and building new Monsters to fit those needs. So, I suppose the answer is, there isn't a perfect, end-all-be-all Monster... but there is a perfect Monster for every rider.
Anyone agree?
I think everyone could agree on that. However, if posed the question directly to you, which is the best monster ever made (for you)? How would you answer?
Ducati ended this discussion when they came out with the SF.
End of discussion.
Yes, it's not a monster....... but........
It's a monster
IMO, the SF does not qualify as a monster but a great bike none the less. The Evo 1100 is the best air cooled monster with a great sounding stock exhaust. The S4rs or S4rt are great hooligan bikes and hands down the best overall monsters to date.
Quote from: Anthony81586 on June 06, 2013, 07:54:29 AM
I think everyone could agree on that. However, if posed the question directly to you, which is the best monster ever made (for you)? How would you answer?
I honestly don't know, I'm incredibly biased as I've only ridden one, my 98 M900. I think I'd love to try out the power of the S4Rs. When I have an opportunity to upgrade and purchase my next one, it WILL have a single-sided swingarm, as I love the looks. I DO NOT like the looks of the S4Rs over the air-cooled machines. So, I guess I'll try to find a happy medium of power and looks. Again, not answering your question because I just don't know.
I'm awfully fond of my carbed M750. Handles well, enough power for some fun and easy to maintain too.
JM
2001 m900sie
Original classic monster looks. Easy 2 valve maintenance. Fuel injection. Decent suspension. Steel tank. Air cooled. No immobilizer crap.
Btw I've never owned one. Currently have a 2004 s4r and a 2001 m600. The 900 would be the perfect balance.
^^^ What he said. I have a '01 900MS and love it. The SSS of the SxR bikes are sexy, though, and I would like to try one before I declare the M900 winner in my book.
New ones look too 'transformer-y' for me. I love the classic monster tank.
2000 M900Sie (but I am insanely biased)
This is a cool thread so far, it seems the SxR series is well liked by you also have your classic monster lovers and the m1100 people. I've only owned and ridden one monster and that's my 2003 m620 which I love. But eventually if like an upgrade and its cool to see what the monster population likes and why.
You can insert a poll in a thread if that helps you get to a more definitive answer. Never done it but i'm sure someone on here can explain how.
My vote: 2000-2001 M900Si.e.
Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch
My vote is for one of the little full-trellis monsters. 600, 620, 695.
These are like a blank canvas that's just begging to be worked on and customised. Sure the suspension is awful and non-adjustable, and the brakes are often lacking, but they are just so easy (and chep) to upgrade.
Plus when you do upgrade them, you get all the fun of a bigger bike, while keeping your licence.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
My vote: 2000-2001 M900Si.e.
Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch
+1 (the 2000 model with rear Ohlins is the pick), thats voting with my head
93-96 900 voting with my heart.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
My vote: 2000-2001 M900Si.e.
Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch
You forgot to add "YELLOW" ;D
Quote from: jaxduc on June 06, 2013, 08:06:21 AM
Ducati ended this discussion when they came out with the SF.
End of discussion.
Pfft. A mighty and powerful machine it is. But I'd give it zero consideration.... Monsters ought be glorious in their nakedness... whereas somebody stole the Streetfighter's clothing IMO... eeeugh... put that shit away.. [laugh]
Quote from: MojoWorking on June 06, 2013, 08:12:12 AMThe Evo 1100 is the best air cooled monster.....
Fine Monster. But a lesser bike than the M1100s it replaced IMO.
S-4-R-S. ;)
Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
My vote: 2000-2001 M900Si.e.
Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch
I agree with this statement so much I have one of each and the 2001 is a cromo.
These bikes are so simple that even a mechanical retard like me can work on them and rebuild them, if need be. (have rebuilt both)
the 2001 upgraded with ohlins rear shock and sbk forks makes it the perfect bike for me and I have yet to ride anything I've enjoyed as much, although the diavel was pretty close.
I could see buying an S4R down the road and selling the 2000 900. I think that would leave me with a pretty awesome combination of bikes. I would have to first convince the GF to let me sell the 2000 however, as it has essentially become her bike.
695. classic frame and it's so light. Changed the fork springs and lost 38 pounds off my person so the suspension is fine. The Immobilizer EFI seems reasonable to me, but my other bike has CANBUS so that's very relative.
I've ridden the 696, 1100, an M900 (in poor mechanical condition) and a 750. The slipper clutch action on the 695 is just lovely.
Quote from: suzyj on June 06, 2013, 03:46:44 PM
My vote is for one of the little full-trellis monsters. 600, 620, 695.
These are like a blank canvas that's just begging to be worked on and customised. Sure the suspension is awful and non-adjustable, and the brakes are often lacking, but they are just so easy (and chep) to upgrade.
Plus when you do upgrade them, you get all the fun of a bigger bike, while keeping your licence.
I agree with full trellis. That's about it. :) And no matter how much you do to a 6** you will never get ALL the fun of a bigger bike. [evil]
Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
My vote: 2000-2001 M900Si.e.
Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch
I love everything you list except I loathe OEM dual sided swingarm. They look like crap. Cheap. Some of the aftermarket ones look great. Even the newer monsters DSS look better.
My vote for best monster ever made? Probably the S4RS over my S4RT due to the Ohlins. I like my paint job better though. Best customized? Black Fog.
Someone just put up a poll so we can end this battle of who has the largest poll. ..
Quote from: jaxduc on June 06, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Someone just put up a poll so we can end this battle of who has the largest poll. ..
Considering how many people have more than one favourite and/or can't decide ... and the sheer number of options ... a poll won't be as definitive as you hope.
The discussion is much better ... and the question was phrased a lot better than the 'i want to buy a monster, which one if the best?' variety.
Quote from: jsanford on June 06, 2013, 07:37:16 PM
695. classic frame and it's so light. Changed the fork springs and lost 38 pounds off my person so the suspension is fine. The Immobilizer EFI seems reasonable to me, but my other bike has CANBUS so that's very relative.
695 = plastic tank issues, high temps due to lean running and no oil cooler, discolored heads due to temps and bad paint.
...but I love mine ;D
To me, the hallmark of a true Monster will always be the full trellis frame. And it better be red!
Quote from: jaxduc on June 06, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Someone just put up a poll so we can end this battle of who has the largest poll. ..
Plus the poll won't have any explanation which is half the fun
1993 900 for me. I have got one of the very first to come out (a lot of networking was involved ;D ), and wish I had not sold it when I moved.
My brain memory is almost zero, and I forgot what I did a month ago, but after many bikes and cars purchased, mostly of which forgotten, I still vividly remember the day I picked it up.
QuoteThe discussion is much better
[roll]
Quote from: Anthony81586 on June 07, 2013, 03:01:09 AM
Plus the poll won't have any explanation which is half the fun
???
The poll would be more scientific.
AND you can still have your "discussion" and "explanations" in the thread. [thumbsup]
I just think its a dumb topic because of course everyone is going to be biassed based on what monsters they currently own.
with a poll, you might miss out on tasty tidbits like PhilB's '94 Monster 900 which has over 200,000 miles on it....
oh, who the hell am I kidding...people will post that too anyway....
and a poll is not considered official or scientific on the DMF unless Boobies is an option...and even then, it is just then merely considered !!!
Quote from: jaxduc on June 07, 2013, 08:24:31 AM
I just think its a dumb topic because of course everyone is going to be biassed based on what monsters they currently own.
Most certainly not true, I would give up my evo for a clean S4RS if I had the additional money. There was an 08 tricolore at my local dealer and I almost sold my evo and 749 to get it.
and a poll is not considered official or scientific on the DMF unless Boobies is an option...and even then, it is just then merely considered !!!
[/quote]
thought you were going to get by with this didn't ya! 8)
Boobies = [bacon]
of course it won't be scientific ... but it would be more scientific than just all of us bragging about our bikes like we usually do.
also I'm changing my answer from StreetFighter to:
The Best Monster ever Made is the first one they made. If that first one was never made we wouldn't be here
Quote from: zooom on June 07, 2013, 08:31:41 AM
with a poll, you might miss out on tasty tidbits like PhilB's '94 Monster 900 which has over 200,000 miles on it....
Phil's is a '93 BTW...
Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 07, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Phil's is a '93 BTW...
thank you for the correction...to me 93/94 are the same brood with the bigger valve heads and all the goodness that was put in to them...
I think the best is a 2007 S4Rs, BUT... the S4Rt in Titanium/Greg with red trellis is the most beautiful. So my perfect monster is the suspension of the S4Rs and the Titanium color combo of the S4Rt.
-Jim
Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
My vote: 2000-2001 M900Si.e.
Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch
Quote from: koko64 on June 06, 2013, 04:17:58 PM
+1 (the 2000 model with rear Ohlins is the pick), thats voting with my head
This.
I'm not at all biased, either
Quote from: zooom on June 07, 2013, 08:31:41 AM
and a poll is not considered official or scientific on the DMF unless Boobies is an option
Oh yeah, of course! So the poll will obviously tell us what people are really thinking.
I love the discussion and agree with much of what has been said ... it does depend on your tastes, needs, wants and experiences. If the choice was scientific a poll may be appropriate but there is far too much emotion involved and opinion rules ... so stand by for a long-winded and non-committal response [cheeky]
The Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike, so perhaps the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike. Conception aside however, the Monster was brought to market as a compromise ... and to me this is the essence of a Monster ... it is a parts bin bike which presents many options and varying compromises with a certain aesthetic appeal.
This is where the new-style Monsters lose out for me. They are 'more' purpose built and they lose some of the aesthetic appeal. The Monster's core aesthetic comes from the frame, integrated engine, the tank shape (and to some degree the headlight) ... purpose built ruins this core aesthetic changing design to a styling exercise. They may have been a chance if the rear sub-frame 'worked' aesthetically ... but Ducati have come to compromise the wrong areas.
So is the S4Rs the best Monster? Well, as it turns out, no. Because by the time it came to market the Monster had become much more urbane than a stripped naked Superbike, its identity was cast before the fridge-based Monsters came along and all that plumbing no longer fit the aesthetic ... and most of it was superfluous for the intent of the bike.
It is probably for this reason that I have long considered the S2R1000 as the ultimate evolution of the true Monster - air cooled simplicity (design and maintenance) with plenty of 'streetable' power and comprised of suitably compromised components (brakes, suspension, etc), a sprinkling of identifiable Ducati traits (single sided swingarm and dry clutch) and a full trellis with nothing to hide.
But it is a bit like choosing a favourite child, so I will elaborate further [roll] with the experiences I have has with my own children ... back soon.
Quote from: Betty on June 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
Oh yeah, of course! So the poll will obviously tell us what people are really thinking.
I love the discussion and agree with much of what has been said ... it does depend on your tastes, needs, wants and experiences. If the choice was scientific a poll may be appropriate but there is far too much emotion involved and opinion rules ... so stand by for a long-winded and non-committal response [cheeky]
The Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike, so perhaps the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike. Conception aside however, the Monster was brought to market as a compromise ... and to me this is the essence of a Monster ... it is a parts bin bike which presents many options and varying compromises with a certain aesthetic appeal.
This is where the new-style Monsters lose out for me. They are 'more' purpose built and they lose some of the aesthetic appeal. The Monster's core aesthetic comes from the frame, integrated engine, the tank shape (and to some degree the headlight) ... purpose built ruins this core aesthetic changing design to a styling exercise. They may have been a chance if the rear sub-frame 'worked' aesthetically ... but Ducati have come to compromise the wrong areas.
So is the S4Rs the best Monster? Well, as it turns out, no. Because by the time it came to market the Monster had become much more urbane than a stripped naked Superbike, its identity was cast before the fridge-based Monsters came along and all that plumbing no longer fit the aesthetic ... and most of it was superfluous for the intent of the bike.
It is probably for this reason that I have long considered the S2R1000 as the ultimate evolution of the true Monster - air cooled simplicity (design and maintenance) with plenty of 'streetable' power and comprised of suitably compromised components (brakes, suspension, etc), a sprinkling of identifiable Ducati traits (single sided swingarm and dry clutch) and a full trellis with nothing to hide.
But it is a bit like choosing a favourite child, so I will elaborate further [roll] with the experiences I have has with my own children ... back soon.
Awesome response. I love the reasoning using the concept of the initial design and the evolution of the Monster. Very cool.
In case you were wondering we have three Monsters in the shed ... yes they are all FI, full trellis bikes ... and no, none of them are an S2R1000. But this doesn't mean I would swap any of them. The Boss has two (a 620 and an S4Rt) and I have an S2R800 ... not a bad spread of models - and like all children they have their own traits which make them special.
The 620 has all sorts of emotional pull but it is compact, feels small and light and its standard features (big brakes, steel tank, gearing) have been enhanced (adjustable suspension, a bit of noise) to make it even better. The 5-speed 'box without the APTC is a little limiting but it does provide a certain character. Certainly some compromises but certainly 'fit for purpose'.
The S4Rt is the opposite extreme, so completely over the top (power, brakes, etc) that personalising is rather superfluous - to the extent that stock components like a heavy exhaust are not a burden. It can putter along effortlessly, but for the road it takes away some of the enjoyment of riding because the limits are so broad. The dry clutch is a compromise between emotion and usability as a package it provides a nice bookend with none of that pretentious gold stuff on the Rs.
Then there is my little S2R. Before reading Suzy's post I had been thinking along similar lines. Considering the definition of the Monster as an exercise in compromise ... what more could you want than an S2R 800. The core aesthetic is there ... tank, full trellis, air-cooled motor and a single sided swingarm to boost the Ducati appeal, but some of the components are magnificently compromised in order to bring out a key emotional appeal of the Monster - customisation.
The brakes and suspension are just a lure ... but for street riding the engine, clutch and gearing are right about the sweet-spot. You could almost say the perfect compromise.
Quote from: Betty on June 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
The Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike, so perhaps the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike. Conception aside however, the Monster was brought to market as a compromise ... and to me this is the essence of a Monster ... it is a parts bin bike which presents many options and varying compromises with a certain aesthetic appeal.
So is the S4Rs the best Monster? Well, as it turns out, no. Because by the time it came to market the Monster had become much more urbane than a stripped naked Superbike, its identity was cast before the fridge-based Monsters came along and all that plumbing no longer fit the aesthetic ... and most of it was superfluous for the intent of the bike.
Kind of conflicting thoughts quoted above. If the Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike (which I disagee with, I recall it was conceived as a naked bike with touches of the Ducati heritage) then the S4RS would be the best example of that original conception. It has the best (as in most powerful in stock form) motor, best suspension, best brakes, full trellis, SSS, dry clutch. The original Monster was more of (parts wise) a supersport and aircooled so that would buoy your contention of the S2R1000 being the "best" Monster ever if you stuck with the original air cooled design.
Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2013, 02:29:09 PM
Kind of conflicting thoughts quoted above. If the Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike (which I disagee with, I recall it was conceived as a naked bike with touches of the Ducati heritage) then the S4RS would be the best example of that original conception. It has the best (as in most powerful in stock form) motor, best suspension, best brakes, full trellis, SSS, dry clutch. The original Monster was more of (parts wise) a supersport and aircooled so that would buoy your contention of the S2R1000 being the "best" Monster ever if you stuck with the original air cooled design.
Of course it was conflicting [laugh]
My understanding is that the Monster came about after Galluzzi had built himself 'one' from an 888. The idea of a 'naked' bike was then adopted by Ducati as an 'ideal'. So I reckon it was 'conceived' as a naked Superbike by its designer ... but idealised simply as a 'naked' for production - if that makes any sense.
My argument is that as a purpose built naked Superbike - the Streetfighter may actually be the true production realisation of Galluzzi's original naked Superbike but it doesn't have the aesthetic appeal of the original Monster.
So your contention that the S4Rs is the ultimate embodiment of that original idea is true. The problem is that the Monster had already established itself as an air-cooled urban assault vehicle cobbled together from other 'bits' before S4s came to market ... so, to me, it kinda missed its opportunity. The idealised design had moved the concept in a certain direction to form what 'we', the public, now conceive as a Monster.
But like I said it is all about compromise. To determine what is 'your' best ever Monster ... you need to decide where to make the compromise in that decision making process.
Hope you like the way I have used the word 'conceive' in different contexts to confuse the matter further [cheeky]
Hmm, I think really the best Monster ever made... is the one I happen to be riding at the time.
Really I love them all. I love my EVO, but I also LOVED the '06 620 with Termis (the one that initially created my Monster lust), and the S2R800, and the 696, and the M750, and the.........
How bout we switch the question? Which model monster would you kick out of bed?
Quote from: memper on June 07, 2013, 08:50:05 PM
How bout we switch the question? Which model monster would you kick out of bed?
Any of the 600's. The City. All the ones that don't have a round headlight. Anything Norm modified.
Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2013, 09:47:03 PM
Any of the 600's. The City. All the ones that don't have a round headlight. Anything Norm modified.
:'(
Quote from: suzyj on June 07, 2013, 10:08:33 PM
:'(
:) I was messing with you guys...I pretty much like them all. Pretty much.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 05, 2013, 06:36:53 PM
Pffft.
My ANY Monster S4 is obviously the best.
8)
As the first of the S models, The S4's are certainly a labor of love, but oh so worth it. The first four valver, first watercooled, etc. They seem to be the red-headed step children of the Monster family, but that makes them that much more special.
Quote from: Betty on June 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
, so the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike.
FINALLY!!!! someone who agrees!
2001 M900 Cromo
Simple, mesmerizing, mischevious.
It's not an sbk and doesn't try to be one. If I wanted superbike performance, I'd get a bike with plastic. I find all the plumbing to be, disruptive.
Great thread btw!
This one
(http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo256/Crazy_Horse_1877/29Aug10005.jpg) (http://s381.photobucket.com/user/Crazy_Horse_1877/media/29Aug10005.jpg.html)
I'm partial towards the S2R1K. Best of all worlds.
Quote from: jaxduc on June 08, 2013, 03:21:36 AM
FINALLY!!!! someone who agrees!
Context is a wonderful thing
... to avoid if it suits your argument [cheeky]
Older style trellis, sssa, dry clutch, termignioni, argument over 4 valve v 2 valve.
Best Monster IMO...
Has to be air cooled. Friends with more experience tell me the 4 valve is a bit much for the chassis of a monster (especially on the track), purist think the radiator ruins the clean lines. Still I find it impossible to look away when I see a S4Rs White/Red with Ohlins :)
My choice S2R 1000, the final evolution of the original Monster, or perhaps the 2005 (steel tank? I know the S4's had it then) so you do not have the tank problems and you operate the choke vs. the stepper motors.
My alternate is the early M900, Where it all started.
Third, the 09 (fact check me on this) S version (last of the dual sided exhaust cans) with ABS, Ohlins, assuming the newer body style does not disqualify it from your list.
Case
Quote from: memper on June 07, 2013, 08:50:05 PM
How bout we switch the question? Which model monster would you kick out of bed?
Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2013, 09:47:03 PM
Anything Norm modified.
can't say I necesarily disagre with this sentiment...due to some sketchy modifications that happened to some of those....like I recall back in the history books a Barone owned "Hurricane" that was controversially twitchy or something....
Quote from: Case S2R on June 09, 2013, 01:14:53 PM
Friends with more experience tell me the 4 valve is a bit much for the chassis of a monster (especially on the track), ...
I've heard and read this too, but I don't really get it.
The Monster chassis is derived from the 888 Superbike, which was a 4-valver with, let us say, a wee bit of track cred.
Aside from that, what exactly is the problem supposed to be? It is not as though the 4V motor bends the swingarm under power, or anything weird like that.
Stiffness? High-speed change of direction? Hardly problems for a naked bike, where you can't hang on at consistent high speeds anyhow.
The reality is, the 4V Ducs are silly powerful for a naked bike, whatever chassis it rolls on.
Which is why the 2V motors make more sense.
Question then is: is the best Monster the bike that makes most sense? Or is the Monster at its best a silly hot-rod? [evil]
Quote from: Moronic on June 10, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
Question then is: is the best Monster the bike that makes most sense? Or is the Monster at its best a silly hot-rod? [evil]
the answer is, the best Monster is the one that brings the most shit eating ear to ear silly googley smile to your face !!!
Quote from: Moronic on June 10, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
I've heard and read this too, but I don't really get it.
The Monster chassis is derived from the 888 Superbike, which was a 4-valver with, let us say, a wee bit of track cred.
Aside from that, what exactly is the problem supposed to be? It is not as though the 4V motor bends the swingarm under power, or anything weird like that.
Stiffness? High-speed change of direction? Hardly problems for a naked bike, where you can't hang on at consistent high speeds anyhow.
The reality is, the 4V Ducs are silly powerful for a naked bike, whatever chassis it rolls on.
Which is why the 2V motors make more sense.
Question then is: is the best Monster the bike that makes most sense? Or is the Monster at its best a silly hot-rod? [evil]
well said [thumbsup]
Well I've seen so many great responses and to me the best arguments come from two places the first being the "whatever monster you love crowd" which seems to be self explanatory and doesn't need much backing.
As far as a more specific "best" monster, the side of the s2r seems very compelling. I think the fact that the 2v air cooled engine seems to be the monster most comfortable and familiar area. It seems to stick with the original concept of the bike as well.
That's just my opinion of course and purely based on the information I've seen in this thread as the one and only duc I've owned went to heaven on Saturday and I'm still hospitalized recovering.
Thanks for all the responses all! Such a good thread.
Quote from: Travman on June 05, 2013, 06:57:25 PM
2003-2005 1000S. They have all the classic good looks of the classic air-cooled Monsters. Steel tanks that won't deform. All the power you need from the 1000DS engine and the S models had adjustable suspension.
+1
late to the show
mitt
I'd have to throw my vote to the S2R800, specifically the 05 (acid yellow). While some components are trash, it's the perfect bike for around town and weekend twisties. And once sorted out with proper springs and shock, just dandy!
Quote from: Moronic on June 10, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
I've heard and read this too, but I don't really get it.
The Monster chassis is derived from the 888 Superbike, which was a 4-valver with, let us say, a wee bit of track cred.
Aside from that, what exactly is the problem supposed to be? It is not as though the 4V motor bends the swingarm under power, or anything weird like that.
Stiffness? High-speed change of direction? Hardly problems for a naked bike, where you can't hang on at consistent high speeds anyhow.
I do not have a direct answer, but could part of it be that the 888 was low on power compared to a S4rS?
Overheard the sales guy at my local Ducati dealership, mention "Yep, it rides like a Monster" to which I asked "Is that different than any other bike?" His answer was "Compared to a Superbike, Yes". This is a question I will answer myself someday, but till then a sweet 2 valve Monster is close to perfection. IMO
Case
Quote from: Case S2R on June 14, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
I do not have a direct answer, but could part of it be that the 888 was low on power compared to a S4rS?
Overheard the sales guy at my local Ducati dealership, mention "Yep, it rides like a Monster" to which I asked "Is that different than any other bike?" His answer was "Compared to a Superbike, Yes". This is a question I will answer myself someday, but till then a sweet 2 valve Monster is close to perfection. IMO
Case
I'm sure you are right about the power step from the 888, in road form anyway, but that leaves open the question how the extra power poses a problem for the S4Rs chassis.
My best suggestion is that the Monster chassis, by modern superbike standards, is a bit slow-steering, and hence a bit ponderous and imprecise at high speeds. There seems to be some flexing when you haul hard on the 'bars to change direction at higher speeds, as well.
That didn't stop former top US roadracer Daniel Coe filing a rave-report for superbikeplanet.com (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Apr/060417b.htm) from the S4Rs launch at the Ascari circuit though. And it looks like he rode it fairly hard. Here he is on the kitted version:
(http://daffyduc.smugmug.com/photos/i-xS9ZGnS/0/XL/i-xS9ZGnS-XL.jpg)
And I particularly like this shot of the stock bike over an off-camber crest:
(http://daffyduc.smugmug.com/photos/i-SCdg6sk/0/XL/i-SCdg6sk-XL.jpg)
(BTW these photos from the article are credited to Ducati, which I'm sure would have no complaints about my posting them here. ;) )
Coe didn't whine about the chassis once, except to say he'd have liked to dial in more rear ride height from the adjustable link, for better cornering clearance:
"Particularly on the left where we started with the foot of the aluminum side stand and ended up literally twisting the shift pedal up and out of the way."
The funny thing is, if you look at where Ducati went with the Streetfighter, they made the frame more rigid but lengthened the wheelbase and slackened the steering head angle - which on paper anyway should have made the steering
slower. ???
I don't disagree tho that the four-valve motor in a Monster is unnecessary. Sure it is. Gloriously so. ;D ;D
The S4RS is the ST frame not the 888 frame
I say it again.
S4RS. Enough said ;)
Quote from: Case S2R on June 14, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
I do not have a direct answer, but could part of it be that the 888 was low on power compared to a S4rS?
Overheard the sales guy at my local Ducati dealership, mention "Yep, it rides like a Monster" to which I asked "Is that different than any other bike?" His answer was "Compared to a Superbike, Yes". This is a question I will answer myself someday, but till then a sweet 2 valve Monster is close to perfection. IMO
Case
888 not a Superbike? 8) Rode an 851 for a few years. If I had to guess, the 888 has a good bit more weight over the front wheel than the stripped version. I prefer my "new" monster because it addresses this "light front end" issue. If you take a look at an 851/888 with the fairing removed, you'll see all kinds of stuff hanging up front.
Quote from: Raux on June 15, 2013, 08:02:26 AM
The S4RS is the ST frame not the 888 frame
Good point, but then what was the ST frame based on?
888 plus revised suspension link? (I'm asking, don't know.) ;D
This one... obviously.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/420731_10151578480618630_74584842_n.jpg)
Interesting to see all of the replies, seems people fall into 2 different sides of both the "looks" and "power" arguments!
Personally, I've still not become a fan of the newer monster styling, and most of the current Ducati's do little to excite me. I suppose I'm a romantic, but I love the old world craftsmanship of the steel tanks, machined parts, welded trellis frames, and distinctive dry clutches.
The single sided swingarms and 10 spoke Marchesinis are dead sexy as well.
Power wise, a torquey, high revving motor is as good as it gets for me. I haven't ridden an S4R/S/T so I can't comment, but the 900 motor is hands down one of my favorites of any bike I've ridden, along with KTM's 520. There is just something about the grunt right from the bottom that surges forward, and the spot where the torque tapers off (very close to 5250 rpm), the top end rush starts to come on and slings you forward even faster.
Having ridden the 600, 750, 900, and 1000, the 900 is still my favorite, and having ridden a 1000, 900, Panigale, and 748 in the last 2 weeks, the 900 was the only one that surprised me and I truly enjoyed, to be honest I felt a bit cheated and let down by the rest of them, especially the Panigale!
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/mikesixtysix/blackfog/IMG_3797a.jpg)
but i'm totally biased...
Magnus... that is a sweet, SWEET ride.
Quote from: Magnus on June 19, 2013, 04:06:26 PM
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/mikesixtysix/blackfog/IMG_3797a.jpg)
but i'm totally biased...
I like that one... ;D
Quote from: Magnus on June 19, 2013, 04:06:26 PM
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/mikesixtysix/blackfog/IMG_3797a.jpg)
but i'm totally biased...
Derby. :)
Quote from: hbliam on June 06, 2013, 08:28:10 PM
I love everything you list except I loathe OEM dual sided swingarm. They look like crap. Cheap. Some of the aftermarket ones look great. Even the newer monsters DSS look better.
My vote for best monster ever made? Probably the S4RS over my S4RT due to the Ohlins. I like my paint job better though. Best customized? Black Fog.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/9126309444_2e1d230979.jpg) my vote :-)
FYI S4RS owners. There's a new sheriff in town!
http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2013/06/ducati-s4rs-to-lose-crown-as-fastest-monster-ever/ (http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2013/06/ducati-s4rs-to-lose-crown-as-fastest-monster-ever/)
Quote from: richard on June 27, 2013, 10:43:01 PM
FYI S4RS owners. There's a new sheriff in town!
http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2013/06/ducati-s4rs-to-lose-crown-as-fastest-monster-ever/ (http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2013/06/ducati-s4rs-to-lose-crown-as-fastest-monster-ever/)
Will be interesting to see how that new 1198 monster meets the theme of this thread - assuming it is even named a Monster when it reaches production.
The news shifts me towards the current 2V camp: I'd be arguing that 998cc, water cooled and eight valves is plenty of go for a Monster and anything more would be "way too much". ;D
And then, as i said on the 1198 thread, in terms of peak rear-wheel horsepower the 1198 stock might not outperform a kitted S4RT motor, which produce 125-130 at the wheel, or only a few hp short of stock Multistrada or Diavel numbers.
But really, it should be all about how it rides.
Love that S4R (as posted above) BTW:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/9126309444_2e1d230979.jpg)
Most certainly a worthy pretender.
It will definitely be the fastest Monster but we'll have to see if it will be the best also.
Quote from: richard on June 29, 2013, 12:01:41 PM
It will definitely be the fastest Monster but we'll have to see if it will be the best also.
"Best" is subjective so we won't ever have a consensus.