Question: In your opinion is it okay to ride without health insurance? Have you done it? Would you carry a cupcake you knew did not have health insurance? Would it make a difference if you had kids? What if the uninsured passanger has kids?
Discuss.
sac
/first person to turn this thread political gets a punch in the balls
I do not ride with passengers, if my dumbass gets make the beast with two backsed up thats one thing, but I couldn't deal with hurting a cupcake.
County hospital always served me well but I have never needed major medical, just assorted easily set broken bones. I also never had any money or anything to lose, no wife, no kids. Times have changed though and now I have insurance. I would never ride uninsured (incl life ins) if I had family though as getting killed and leaving your family hold the bills for your playtime is simply not fair.
Oh and I removed the passenger pegs. My girl is going to a MSF course this weekend so she can get hurt on her own without trashing my conscious. Damn sure hope she beats the curve. [Dolph]
Riding uninsured is stupid. That is all.
The last time home i rode for six months no health insurance. I would prefer to have it, but sort of expensive to pay for yourself. Also haven't had insurance for the last 2.5 years. I refrained from doing any real "sport" or aggressive riding. But there was one off road trip through death valley. And i guess commuting in the bay area has its hazards.
When i did my tour through the US i did purchase a high deductible package for the three months of travel.
kids family and responsibilities would change all that.
How many have donated blood?
Someday, you may need.... (knock on wood)
DO IT.
Riding or not you need health insurance. Shit happens, young and old.
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 21, 2013, 06:45:36 PM
I do not ride with passengers, if my dumbass gets make the beast with two backsed up thats one thing, but I couldn't deal with hurting a cupcake.
my thoughts exactly [thumbsup]
God is my cupcake.
(no political)
*covers balls.
Quote from: howie on June 22, 2013, 04:56:28 AM
Riding or not you need health insurance. Shit happens, young and old.
What Howie said. A couple weeks hospital stay or even minor surgery can put a person in debt for life.
I've never had to ride without health insurance, whenever I've had a bike, I was also employed or else had health insurance. Never really had to think about it.
Quote from: Triple J on June 21, 2013, 09:26:17 PM
Riding uninsured is stupid. That is all.
'Splain. [popcorn]
Quote from: Timon on June 22, 2013, 11:31:01 PM
'Splain. [popcorn]
Total up your buddy's medical bills when he busted his hip...thats why.
Riding or not.
Everyone should have at least major incident medical insurance, because just an ambulance ride cost is enough to banrupt a lot of people. Term life insurance is also recommended; if you're single then just enough coverage to bury you and if you have obligations (wife children, etc.) then 10x your yearly salary.
If you don't have those two things then I will punch you in your balls for being stoopid.
Quote from: D3vi@nt on June 22, 2013, 11:24:02 AM
What Howie said. A couple weeks hospital stay or even minor surgery can put a person in debt for life.
So $500-600/mo. for a policy that will likely leave you with significant out of pocket expenses is different than being in debt?
Quote from: Ddan on June 23, 2013, 07:02:11 AM
So $500-600/mo. for a policy that will likely leave you with significant out of pocket expenses is different than being in debt?
To date; I have spent less than 5k on medical bills in my entire life, I am 48. This is (in part) why I went without health insurance for so many years.Just last year I decided to get health insurance as I am getting older and have a somewhat hazardous job and am feeling the pain of my wild youth every time I wake up.
Had I been paying 400.00 a month for insurance I would have spent to date $100,000 on health insurance, plus co pays, deductibles etc etc. Sounds like a bad deal when you look at the raw math. However my buddy just got hit on his bike and a badly broken foot has already cost $100,000 and he has not even had the pins removed yet.......
So in the end it only takes one bad hit in 30 years to end up on the right side of the math. Yup, get the damn insurance. :(
I could get into why it costs a hundred grand for a broken foot but I value my balls. ;D
the most expensive insurance is NONE at all. At the very least have, as has been mentioned, major medical.
Quote from: DanTheMan on June 23, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
Total up your buddy's medical bills when he busted his hip...thats why.
I'm not sure the most impulsive irresponsible rider I know is a good indication of anything.
Ain't it ironical for you to be agreeing riding sans insurance is dumb when you ride without it?
Quote from: Timon on June 23, 2013, 10:04:10 AM
I'm not sure the most impulsive irresponsible rider I know is a good indication of anything.
Ain't it ironical for you to be agreeing riding sans insurance is dumb when you ride without it?
Yeah right, but complete accident, he wasn't even trying something stoopid.
Yup that would be the definition of irony.
Not being political but I think next year everybody is supposed to have health ins. Just sayin. I may be wrong about the date. I have health insurance, but I have rode without any before, but not with a cup cake.
Quote from: Skybarney on June 23, 2013, 07:35:47 AM
So in the end it only takes one bad hit in 30 years to end up on the right side of the math. Yup, get the damn insurance. :(
^^ This is what it comes down to.
All insurance is a gamble; you weigh your risks and decide what you can/can't afford.
On a semi-related note, most (but not all) motorcycle policies do not cover medical bills like a normal motor vehicle policy does.
I did not know this until The Deer Incident, which cost me several grand out of pocket....
Good point but the limits are low on most policies. About half the cost of motorcycle insurance is usually PIP.
Quote from: Ddan on June 23, 2013, 07:02:11 AM
So $500-600/mo. for a policy that will likely leave you with significant out of pocket expenses is different than being in debt?
HDHP + HSA health insurance plans don't cost $500-$600/mo and neither do major medical only. (for comprehensive medical, dental and vision
combined mine is $554/mo) We're not talking getting insurance to enable paying a $20 office visit fee for a routine cold here. That type of stuff you just pay out of pocket after emphasizing to the doc that it is not being billed through insurance to get the
lower actual cost rate.
and there is a difference in diverting risk versus paying interest to a bank, so yes insurance is different than being in debt. You have to think outside of yourself and ask the question of how your death or being majorly debilitated affects those around you.
Quote from: Drjones on June 24, 2013, 06:44:40 AM
<snip> You have to think outside of yourself and ask the question of how your death or being majorly debilitated affects those around you.
Whether you have insurance or not death or debilitation will affect those around you.
If we truly thought outside of ourselves we wouldn't ride.
I'd like those who have posted up already to state whether they are paying for the insurance out of their own pocket.
IMO, if you have employer-subsidised or provided insurance, you don't have a dog in this fight.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 24, 2013, 02:14:43 PM
I'd like those who have posted up already to state whether they are paying for the insurance out of their own pocket.
IMO, if you have employer-subsidised or provided insurance, you don't have a dog in this fight.
Employer subsidized/provided insurance IS out of their own pockets. It's part of their total compensation. In many industries, health insurance isn't considered a perk or extra benefit, it's a requirement to attract and retain qualified employees.
I got laid off shortly after an accident that had 1 bill totalling over $65k.
Yes, I still ride with no health insurance. What are they going to do? Ruin my credit more than they already have?
I also want to add that this fact is in the back of my mind, and I do ride much differently now.
Quote from: hbliam on June 24, 2013, 02:32:59 PM
Employer subsidized/provided insurance IS out of their own pockets.
~~~SNIP~~~
Only if they can refuse the provided insurance and get paid that money.
When I was an employee, that option was not offered.
[popcorn]
Owning my own small business resulted in my purchasing my own insurance @ 450+ a month in California. Not happy spending as much as some folks spend on Rent. However, the chances of my needing an expensive stay in a hospital at some point are quite high. Being as I own aircraft that I rely on to pay my bills I have no choice. Failure to pay any medical bills would result in the seizure of my aircraft. Same goes for owning a home or any other significant asset.
It has gotten to be a crazy expensive world unless you choose to live in a box under a bridge [bang]
I pay out of my own pocket for coverage.
I also pay half for one of my employees out of my own pocket. The shop covers it when it can but that's not all the time. We have pretty good rates and pretty reasonable coverage.
Quote from: Skybarney on June 24, 2013, 06:15:00 PM
Owning my own small business resulted in my purchasing my own insurance @ 450+ a month in California. Not happy spending as much as some folks spend on Rent.
$450 for rent? ???
$450 for insurance isn't bad. My wife's company pays about $2K a month for our coverage.......... as part of her compensation. ;)
Quote from: Speeddog on June 24, 2013, 03:18:21 PM
Only if they can refuse the provided insurance and get paid that money.
When I was an employee, that option was not offered.
I disagree with that. What if your employer offers 401k matching contributions? If you choose not to avail yourself of that, is it not compensation that was offered to you?
And let's be realistic: when an uninsured person runs up a huge bill and doesn't pay it, the costs still exist. They don't vanish. The hospital puts those costs on other people, and also gets partial compensation from the state.. The doctors simply don't get paid unless they're hospital employees.. People in that situation are expecting others to foot their bill in a very real sense.
Please understand, I know that many simply can't pay an insurance bill and still keep a roof over their heads or provide for their dependents. Many of those might be riding because it's the only form of transportation they can afford to get to work. There are many reasons why people are uninsured. But if one CAN afford insurance and simply chooses not to as a gamble to put more money in his or her own pocket, well, that's a little self-centered in my opinion.
Btw, I admit I did this when I was younger. I also admit I was even more self-centered in those days than I am now ;D
Quote from: swampduc on June 24, 2013, 07:14:37 PM
I disagree with that. What if your employer offers 401k matching contributions? If you choose not to avail yourself of that, is it not compensation that was offered to you?
And let's be realistic: when an uninsured person runs up a huge bill and doesn't pay it, the costs still exist. They don't vanish. The hospital puts those costs on other people, and also gets partial compensation from the state.. The doctors simply don't get paid unless they're hospital employees.. People in that situation are expecting others to foot their bill in a very real sense.
Please understand, I know that many simply can't pay an insurance bill and still keep a roof over their heads or provide for their dependents. Many of those might be riding because it's the only form of transportation they can afford to get to work. There are many reasons why people are uninsured. But if one CAN afford insurance and simply chooses not to as a gamble to put more money in his or her own pocket, well, that's a little self-centered in my opinion.
Btw, I admit I did this when I was younger. I also admit I was even more self-centered in those days than I am now ;D
I can attest to the riding as the only form of transportation. That was me a number of years ago. rain, shine, heat, cold, grocery shopping, whatever. If I wanted to get there, I rode the motorcycle. fortunately I was covered by employer insurance. I wish they would have paid me more though, but that's a different matter.
Quote from: ducpainter on June 24, 2013, 01:15:30 PMIf we truly thought outside of ourselves we wouldn't ride.
^^ This.
Quote from: Skybarney on June 24, 2013, 06:15:00 PMIt has gotten to be a crazy expensive world unless you choose to live in a box under a bridge [bang]
Hey, leave the "world" out of this [cheeky].
In some of the world this particular issue.... just doesn't arise.
I rode my Duc and other bikes w/o health insurance for a short time. Was so hard to enjoy the ride knowing I had to be so careful not to wreck or crash. :P
Of course now that I have health insurance again, I haven't spent nearly the same amount of time riding. [bang]
Quote from: ducpainter on June 24, 2013, 01:15:30 PM
Whether you have insurance or not death or debilitation will affect those around you.
If we truly thought outside of ourselves we wouldn't ride.
Yes they will, but being insured makes those effects less by removing the financial burden on those around you. It is the difference in "surprise! your S.O. is dead and by the way you still have that house payment to make, but now on your own" versus "surprise! your S.O. is dead, but here is a big insurance check that will pay off your house."
"If we truly thought outside of ourselves we would
n't ride. live under a cake plate." There is a lot more shit out there that can kill you than [Dolph]
Quote from: ungeheuer on June 24, 2013, 11:50:58 PM
^^ This.
Hey, leave the "world" out of this [cheeky].
In some of the world this particular issue.... just doesn't arise.
Hopefully we will be joining the rest of the modern industrialized world soon. lol
(Groin cup in place)
BTW Low Thud, your avatar is a huge turn on. Damn it change it already I can't take it. ;D
Quote from: Drjones on June 25, 2013, 11:44:45 AM
Yes they will, but being insured makes those effects less by removing the financial burden on those around you. It is the difference in "surprise! your S.O. is dead and by the way you still have that house payment to make, but now on your own" versus "surprise! your S.O. is dead, but here is a big insurance check that will pay off your house."
"If we truly thought outside of ourselves we wouldn't ride. live under a cake plate." There is a lot more shit out there that can kill you than [Dolph]
We're not talking about life insurance here.
Since when does
health insurance pay a death benefit? ??? You must have one awesome policy.
True...we all die...from something. Some things are beyond our control. The choice to ride is within our control. You can't deny that riding a motor cycle increases the chance of that death being premature.
There are no health insurance premiums in Sheol.
Quote from: ducpainter on June 25, 2013, 01:55:33 PM
We're not talking about life insurance here.
Since when does health insurance pay a death benefit? ??? You must have one awesome policy.
True...we all die...from something. Some things are beyond our control. The choice to ride is within our control. You can't deny that riding a motor cycle increases the chance of that death being premature.
insert "skin graft, broken bone, collapsed lung, other multi $k medical expense" for "death" and insert $ to keep from defaulting on financial obligations for paying off home. Same thing and goes back to my original post stating that everyone should have at least major medical PLUS term life. Mitigating negative financial impacts to those closest to us is also within our control.
Walking across a wet parking lot filled with floodlights during a thunderstorm also increases the chance of premature death. I've personally known of three people who've died from lighting strikes during that event.
Quote from: Drjones on June 27, 2013, 01:53:17 PM
I've personally known of three people who've died from lighting strikes during that event.
Sir, I am pleased to
not make your acquaintance....... Scary bad luck as I have never known of anyone hit, much less three :o
I nearly got hit by a lightning ground strike when I was a kid. I was at camp, and the archery instructor had just warned us that ground strikes do occur in the area, and if we felt a sudden 'staticy' feeling that we should run and stand under a tree or get inside. Sure enough, later that day I felt a sudden static build up and ran. The ground got hit where I was standing. If I hadn't been at archery earlier that day, I woulda got fried.
Even everyday life can turn out deadly. Make the best of it!
Right now I have health insurance, life insurance, disability, collision, comprehensive, uninsured motorist, hi-viz jackets and a helmet cam. Next are strobe lights and Gatling guns.. [laugh]
Once my wife (finally) graduates and starts working I'll probably drop life insurance (not really worth it) but I'll keep disability. Reason being that if I'm dead I couldn't give a shit, but if I'm alive and disabled I would need the money.