A serious issue has reared its' head with my 696 today. While out enjoying my day I was loafing along in 5th gear as a hill approached I began of coarse losing acceleration. I dialed in more throttle and the motor sounded like it was straining and there was no acceleration. I proceeded to attempt a down shift to 4th yet the shift lever was stuck. So there I remained for the remainder of the day, stuck in 5th and thats how it sits in my garage. The temperature gauge remained at 4 bars, rising to 5 when attempting to climb a hill. Thank god it got me back home, as it happened out on the highway. Also I was able to start off a few times in 5th as the bike pulls so cleanly down low. I regret this as I REALLY love riding the bike soooo much. I'm glad I still kept my VFR though as I would be very bummed not to have a bike in the best part of the summer.
;D
the ron [evil]
You don't happen to live in West Hollywood do you? I've heard they have frequent tranny problems.
I see the caliber of help I will find late friday night. A comedian and a lunatic.
Don't worry about Ron. He's a closet 696 lover!! ;D ;)
Quote from: gearhead on July 05, 2008, 08:57:40 PM
A serious issue has reared its' head with my 696 today. While out enjoying my day I was loafing along in 5th gear as a hill approached I began of coarse losing acceleration. I dialed in more throttle and the motor sounded like it was straining and there was no acceleration. I proceeded to attempt a down shift to 4th yet the shift lever was stuck. So there I remained for the remainder of the day, stuck in 5th and thats how it sits in my garage. The temperature gauge remained at 4 bars, rising to 5 when attempting to climb a hill. Thank god it got me back home, as it happened out on the highway. Also I was able to start off a few times in 5th as the bike pulls so cleanly down low. I regret this as I REALLY love riding the bike soooo much. I'm glad I still kept my VFR though as I would be very bummed not to have a bike in the best part of the summer.
Hmmm.. ???
Was it almost like it didn't return to its "home" position after the last time you upshifted? I wonder if it just got hung up for some reason, or did you try to downshift repeatedly?
All I can think of is that the pushrod which disengages the clutch is not moving properly. Whether it's a failed master cylinder, slave cylinder, you'd likely see fluid leaking from somewhere... Damn.. :-\
Maybe is this was move to tech it would get more legit responses. I'm willing to gamble on the "improper clutch disengagement" hypothesis.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. :( Glad you made it home safely. [thumbsup]
+1 on trying your question in Tech (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?board=4.0), you might get better answers there.
Quote from: the ron on July 05, 2008, 08:59:01 PM
;D
the ron [evil]
I can't imagine being happy about someone else's bike breaking down, no matter what I thought about their bike. We riders should all be looking out for each other.
QuoteI can't imagine being happy about someone else's bike breaking down, no matter what I thought about their bike. We riders should all be looking out for each other.
I believe Radio Head does a song that refers to the Ron called Creep.
Oh ya, I forgot to add that I live 400 miles from the nearest dealer....lol. The shifter won't budge. The second I realized what was happening I tried to press down firmly on the lever and I could feel a vibration through it, like the teeth of a gear was just knicking the top of the other gear. I was able then to shift down twice to 3rd, then I tried back up again and it went to 5th and stayed there and it won't budge and no vibration anymore.
No man, all kidding aside that sounds like a problem that could be (but is hopefully not) serious, so let's see what we can figure out, you got me curious as well!! Nick (Speeddog) is Mr. Troubleshoot, so hopefully he'll chime in.
Gearhead, unless you can see something external causing the lever to bind it sounds like your bike will need to go back to the dealer, as the problem is most likely internal. If you are able to idle in gear the clutch is working well enough to shift. Hopefully it is just the adjustment under the sidecover and you will be back on the road soon.
It most certainly is something inside and it was not a catastrphic failure as there was no noise, just stopped shifting.
not for nothing, there was a thread on here about a frozen shift fork or something of that nature. it wasnt on a 696 but there was a thread about a monster stuck in a gear. i just don't know if it was on the old dmf or this new forum. and i was smiling because you also have a vfr. one of the greatest sportbikes ever created. even though you have a 696, i don't want anyone to have a bad day of riding, we all ride to have a good time. not have trouble, be it a crash or technical problems. thanks for the lunatic comment. it made me chuckle, good luck.
[thumbsup]
the ron [evil]
Most likely the spring on your internal shift linkage broke (known problem btw) and the shifter pawl lodged itself stuck is all that happened. Should be a simple fix.
Glad you're ok.
Stu
Sorry to hear about your problems. But hey, I'd be willing to bet it's going to be ok. The dealer should take care of you.
This sounds very similar to a problem a friend up here in the Pac NW had recently. I wonder if the 696 trans has commonality with the 848?
We were tearing up the roads around Mt. St. Helens and his 848 encountered the same trans problems as your 696, keeping him stuck in 5th or 6th gear in the middle of nowhere. He was able to make it back the 50 miles to the dealership, credit to him and the gobs of torque on the Duc.
It turned out to be the internal linkage (or some such similar internal failure) as mentioned by Duck-stew. Warranty covered the repairs, and he's back on the road with no evidence of the problem. Like all early production runs, there's bound to be some (hopefully) small percentage of failures.
I guess our Ducati's fail us once in while. At least we can always depend on erudite and, dare I say, honorable gentlemen like the Ron to be 'consistent'.
Quote from: the ron on July 05, 2008, 08:59:01 PM
;D
the ron [evil]
Good luck with your 696.
Johnny D
MMuuhahahaa....very well picked topic name [clap] just dont google it [laugh]
Sorry to hear about that transmission thing...what is the best thing to do if you are on the road ?
Trying to bring the beast back home yourself or bite the bullet and call Desmo Club to pick you up ?
Quotei just don't know if it was on the old dmf or this new forum. and i was smiling because you also have a vfr. one of the greatest sportbikes ever created
I appologize Ron, but your rep precedes you.
QuoteHe was able to make it back the 50 miles to the dealership, credit to him and the gobs of torque on the Duc.
[beer]
Quotewhat is the best thing to do if you are on the road ?
Trying to bring the beast back home yourself or bite the bullet and call Desmo Club to pick you up ?
Exactly but the issue in my mind anyway worsened as it was an absolutley perfect day where I was going to meet a beautiful lady whom I just met for one, second the day was picture perfect with 78 degree temps and no wind, and finally I live in Bum Fuk Nowhere and Ill be damned if I am going to sit on the side of the road, alone no less, baking in the sun only to have a 300 pound goon sling my beautiful bike with wire cables on the back of a greasy tow truck after a 4 hr wait when the torquey Ducati was still begging to ride to meet my love who was a mere 20 minutes down the road.
I had a similar problem with my 695. I would downshift to 2nd and the gear lever would be stuck in the down position and I would be stuck in a gear.
Took the shop 3 months to diagnose. Turned out to be internal shimming problems and they even found a broken shim inside my shift drum....
There were other internal problems with the shifting mechanisms, too many to list, so my entire gearbox was basically rebuilt.
Good luck!
I had this exact same problem on Tuesay night on my 696 with 700 miles. I got stuck in 2nd gear while downshifting coming up to a light. The shift lever would not move no matter what I did. The clutch worked, just wouldn't shift. While limping it home the half mile the tranny made a "whinning" noise like the gears were not meshed properly. Same noise you hear when some jackass doesn't set-up the gears in his rear end properly (often hear at drag strips across the country) I had it towed into the local dealer here in SD and had it back end of day Wednesday. [thumbsup] I was told that the internal shift linkange was not adjusted correctly from the factory and the fork. Now the bike shifts better than it ever has.
Either this could be a potential problem for all 696's or we just happened to have one hung over italian building our bikes on a friday morning!
Same thing would occasionally happen on the older bikes.
My dealer gave me the service bulletin for what I hope is the problem but the instructions leave a little to be desired.
1 set to neutral
2 remove the generator cover
3 in neutral position, ensure that selector drum pin is in line with the notch on pawl (if necessary, align them as described in the workshop manual)
4 shift down the gears and turn the selector drum, keeping it fully home
That is but a sample of whats in it. Now call me stupid but if the problem is the bike is stuck in gear how does one "set it to neutral"?
Quote from: gearhead on July 08, 2008, 06:40:54 PM
My dealer gave me the service bulletin for what I hope is the problem but the instructions leave a little to be desired.
1 set to neutral
2 remove the generator cover
3 in neutral position, ensure that selector drum pin is in line with the notch on pawl (if necessary, align them as described in the workshop manual)
4 shift down the gears and turn the selector drum, keeping it fully home
That is but a sample of whats in it. Now call me stupid but if the problem is the bike is stuck in gear how does one "set it to neutral"?
With the generator cover off, you've got access to the shift drum directly - you can turn it to neutral directly without using the shift lever/pawl mechanism.
big
Quote from: bigiain on July 08, 2008, 07:22:40 PM
With the generator cover off, you've got access to the shift drum directly - you can turn it to neutral directly without using the shift lever/pawl mechanism.
You can also see if the pawl arm is broken/misaligned/caught on something/borked in some other way.
The sealant is a pregnant dog to break free off the cover though. I have been hitting it with a rubber mallet, tapping it with a hard wood block but it won't budge.
Quote from: gearhead on July 08, 2008, 07:39:59 PM
The sealant is a pregnant dog to break free off the cover though. I have been hitting it with a rubber mallet, tapping it with a hard wood block but it won't budge.
You need a puller to get that sidecover off.... not a big one, though.
Quote from: gearhead on July 08, 2008, 07:39:59 PM
The sealant is a pregnant dog to break free off the cover though. I have been hitting it with a rubber mallet, tapping it with a hard wood block but it won't budge.
I've never looked closely at the 696 cases, but on my old '99 M750, that cover has a couple of dowels as well as the bolts, and there's a bearing inside the bolt-on plate in the middle of the cover - you need to pull that plate of and use a puller on the end of the crank to get it off. You won't budge it sideways until you've cleared the dowels and bearing end-ways.
big (damn, beaten!)
You need a puller. A cheap steering wheel puller will do or you can even make one. This link has a photo:
http://www.corsair-industries.com/parts/Ducati%20Tools/Ducati%20Alternator%20Cover%20Removal%20Tool/
You are under warranty, the dealer should be doing this for you free. You do it and something goes wrong you bought it.
Quote from: howie on July 08, 2008, 07:59:35 PM
You are under warranty, the dealer should be doing this for you free. You do it and something goes wrong you bought it.
He said upthread "Oh ya, I forgot to add that I live 400 miles from the nearest dealer....lol."
I'd be popping the cover off myself to take a look too...
big
Here is the deal, and all should take note. The dealer is far far away for me. I am a motorcycle enthusiast who refuses to let the fact that there isn't a dealer in my town stop me from owning a Ducati. Now I believe the dealer will help me out in case of an "accident" as it was arranged before the sale. I consider myself a competent mechanic anyway, not the best but not the worst. Here is the other thing, Ducati won't pay to have a local Kawasaki mechanic, who I would say is world class, he won a Canada wide mechanic competition 2 years running, to do the work so whats the dif if I do it as far as warranty is concerned? Basically the 2 year warranty for me is worthless, I accepted this when I bought it, maybe just for very serious stuff. It will cost me 300+ just to get the bike there and back in fuel alone.
I would like to thank everyone on here for their help, great info, keep it coming. Oh ya, the guy at the dealer told me they use Yamibond to seal the side case.
Given your location relative to the dealer, and your enthusiasm, go for it on the sidecover removal.
A small puller will allow you to get the sidecover off to see if anything's gone wrong with the mechanism in there.
Yamabond or the like is good for sealing the sidecover.
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o257/Ultra54/Clipboard02-2.jpg)
Well I managed today to make a nice puller at work and got the side cover off. What I found inside wasn't good though. I described the service bulletin earlier and yet this isn't the problem. I found 3 pieces of a broken spring. God knows where the other parts have ended up but I figure it's 20. I'm pissed as I already spent a ton of money getting the bike and now wonder whats going to happen now. Confidence is at an all time low. Ducati has a problem on it's hands with the 696 tranny for sure.
Well, at least you found out what was wrong.
You can 'piece' together the pieces you found, to see if you've got it all.
I've seen those broken on fairly new bikes, so it's not unheard of.
when you say 20 do you mean the part labled 20 or 20 pieces? I think your looking at a long monsterless summer regaurdless-- part of your sunk cost is the waranty. I would make a claim if I were you.. it might be a simple part replacment or that may just be the symptom of something bigger.
Quote from: JBubble on July 06, 2008, 07:39:48 AM
Took the shop 3 months to diagnose. Turned out to be internal shimming problems and they even found a broken shim inside my shift drum....There were other internal problems with the shifting mechanisms, too many to list, so my entire gearbox was basically rebuilt.
can't remember how far they'll tow it (150 miles iirc) and you prolly don't have your card yet but I would have it trucked to the dealer with your desmo owners club membership. the number on the card is 800-234-1353. between that and your insurance your costs should be just about covered. I'd get it in there quick BC italy is going on holiday a a couple weeks and it sounds like your gonna need parts (from a new model none the less). The ducati techs will prolly have an easier time diagnosing it. I'd write off the next four to eight weeks. sit back relax and let DNA do the stressing. if you start opperating on the one true lemon in the batch (not saying it is but it might be) you won't have any recourse and an expensive lawn ornement
this one's on me [drink]
Quote from: gearhead on July 10, 2008, 05:15:55 PM
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o257/Ultra54/Clipboard02-2.jpg)
Well I managed today to make a nice puller at work and got the side cover off. What I found inside wasn't good though. I described the service bulletin earlier and yet this isn't the problem. I found 3 pieces of a broken spring. God knows where the other parts have ended up but I figure it's 20. I'm pissed as I already spent a ton of money getting the bike and now wonder whats going to happen now. Confidence is at an all time low. Ducati has a problem on it's hands with the 696 tranny for sure.
Hey, welcome to the club! :) The exact same thing happened to my '94 900CR back about 1997 or 1998; only I got the three pieces of junk when I drained the oil. The flywheel had to come off to replace the stupid thing when I did it - what a PITA! Like you, I worried about it for awhile, but never had a problem. The bike has 58,000 miles on it, now.
Quote from: Speeddog on July 10, 2008, 05:35:01 PM
Well, at least you found out what was wrong.
You can 'piece' together the pieces you found, to see if you've got it all.
I've seen those broken on fairly new bikes, so it's not unheard of.
+1
I'd want to be reasonably certain I'd found all the bits of the spring before I started it again, though it's _reasonably_ unlikely for any sizable sections of that spring would have made their way from the sidecover to the inside of the motor. If you cant convince yourself you've got all the major pieces (and you might want to pull the sump plug and oil filter screen if you're missing some, the sump plug magnet has a good changes of grabbing spring steel).
If you're sure you've got it all, I'd just get your 300 mile away dealer to post you another spring. If you're not _sure_, or if you've got bits from the sump plug or oil screen that show signs of having been munched up internally, I'd be expecting the dealer to strip the motor down under warranty to check for internal damage. (and I think that's gonna mean trucking it to them...)
Like Speeddog says though, it's not too uncommon, I remember the ~99-2000 Yamaha R6's had a reputation for detent springs (which is not the spring you've had fail, but it's nearby) failing early like this (I had a bunch of friends riding R6's back then, maybe half of them suffered the problem).
big
Quoteyou won't have any recourse and an expensive lawn ornement
Hey mister "glass is half empty", thanks for your imput.
Not so long ago, the spring wasn't a separate part and you had to buy the whole flippin' mechanism. [roll]
On the M1k that broke the spring ( on a post-valve-adjust test ride >:( ) we managed to retrieve all the pieces with a bit of fishing around with a magnet.
You do need to pull the flywheel, which is a bit of work, and you must be careful with the shim washer behind the sprag when you reassemble, as it's desire is to fall out of position.
Perhaps you can meet the dealer's truck halfway and cut your hauling down a bit?
Quote from: gearhead on July 10, 2008, 08:04:09 PM
Hey mister "glass is half empty", thanks for your imput.
What's with the animosity? He's tryin to help you out and give you ideas.
Sorry that your bike is broke. Good luck.
Quote from: gearhead on July 10, 2008, 08:04:09 PM
Hey mister "glass is half empty", thanks for your imput.
No problem, glad I could help... have a good one [moto]
Today I pulled the flywheel/stator off and before I knew it I pulled a bit to far and lost the orientation/ timing in regards to the spline. I see an index mark on the outside of the flywheel hub but there appears to be nothing on the splined shaft to line these marks up. Any help would be appreciated, also a thread locking compound was used on the nut and I was wondering what type I should use when I reassemble it?
should be a dot on the spline and flywheel..
Quote from: Speeddog on July 10, 2008, 10:49:22 PM
You do need to pull the flywheel, which is a bit of work, and you must be careful with the shim washer behind the sprag when you reassemble, as it's desire is to fall out of position.
I will look again but I couldn't find the dot on the spline.
Quote from: gearhead on July 29, 2008, 03:16:26 AM
I will look again but I couldn't find the dot on the spline.
On my bike the dot lines up with the slot on the crankshaft. Since your bike is a new design it might be different. Ducati recommends using a new flywheel nut. You might want to call the dealer and check. Since the engine is new you should ask what the torque spec is for the flywheel nut. Good practice is to look for marks prior to disassembly and if needed make your own.
Got it all back together just now and was wondering if you have to wait for the Yamibond to dry. It doesn't say so on the tube or box other than it is a semi drying material. The cardboard I put it on seams fully cured after just 1 hr. Had to torque the flywheel nut to 200 ft lbs.
Oh well, nobody knows about Yamibond I guess so I waited 3 hrs and put the oil back and it worked flawlessly. I also this morning checked my coil wires and low and behold if they weren't backwards. I reinstalled the racingICU and K&N filter and it ran perfectly smooth, dare I say almost Honda like. So I was down 4 weeks total, thank God for the VFR. Ducati absolutely sucks in the customer service area as my dealer hounded them for weeks with little response. The spring that broke had to be removed from a new bike on the showroom floor and Purolated to me over night. Kudos to http://www.ingliscycle.com/ (http://www.ingliscycle.com/) for going above and beyond.