Thinking I might upgrade my wheels this winter, but need to figure out true cost and budget according, if possible. Would like some help on what else I need to/should consider.
Would be getting the Oz aluminum wheels (http://bellissimoto.com/OzWheels.html (http://bellissimoto.com/OzWheels.html)), mainly because they seem the best buy at that level. I assume it makes sense to get a new rear tyre then. Plus, I want to get my swingarm powder coated if possible and since the wheel is coming off, might be a good time to get that done. New wheels require new rear sprockets, so there's that. What else should be done since I am going through all this? What am I missing? What else will drain my wallet on this?
Wheels ~$2200
Tyre ~$200
Powdercoat ~$100 (pure guess here, saw an old posting on this board for PC services in NYC, but can't find it again)
Sprocket ~$70-100
Labor ????
well since your swingarm is off, you could upgrade the shock.
and then if your wheels are off, you could upgrade the rotors all the way around.
and then with your front off, you could upgrade the calipers
and then with the calipers off you could upgrade the forks
and with a new sprocket you need a new chain and new front sprocket
and since you have to take the rearsets off to get the swingarm off you could upgrade the rearsets
and then
and then
I like this game
Don't put old wheel bearings in the new wheels. Not really supposed to put a new sprocket on an old chain either...
i would hope the wheels come with bearings
Quote from: ChrisK on September 25, 2013, 02:08:01 PM
Don't put old wheel bearings in the new wheels. Not really supposed to put a new sprocket on an old chain either...
Why is this?
I ask because I just put a new chain on last winter. ~2000mi on it. If new sprocket is the same size, how can that hurt?
Raux, I would hope so too, the description on their site isn't very clear on that.
I don't know this for sure, about chains and sprockets. But I have heard that if you have sprocket teeth that are no longer true to their original form, they will wear out a new chain faster than it would normally wear out. Other way around too. I'm sure someone else can shed light on that, one way or another.
Quote from: ChrisK on September 25, 2013, 02:18:40 PM
~~~SNIP~~~
I don't know this for sure, about chains and sprockets. But I have heard that if you have sprocket teeth that are no longer true to their original form, they will wear out a new chain faster than it would normally wear out. Other way around too. I'm sure someone else can shed light on that, one way or another.
That's exactly correct.
If you buy OZ's they come with bearings and 90 degree valve stems.
And valve caps with OZ on the ends of 'em!
Quote from: SpikeC on September 25, 2013, 08:23:54 PM
And valve caps with OZ on the ends of 'em!
Oooooh! :o
just for gigglez...why OZ over Carrozerria's?
Quote from: zooom on September 26, 2013, 05:03:05 AM
just for gigglez...why OZ over Carrozerria's?
Oz wheels are lighter
I would like to see the breakdown of price/oz for each of the wheels to see what is a better deal.
Oz because as Duh Luv said, they're lighter. I saw something somewhere (maybe on this site?) that listed a variety of wheels by type--Al, Mg, carbon fiber---and had prices, weights, and maybe something on strength. I will try to find and post if I can, but the result of it was I decided that Oz were the ones to get (for Al).
Here's one source post, though #'s at bottom refer to sportbike wheels.
Quote from: junior varsity on January 24, 2011, 03:43:29 PM
i think that the measurements showed that carrozzeria's were the heavier of the aftermarket/performance alu wheels, but priced accordingly and substantially lighter than the OEM. Especially the 3-spoke heavy mofo's from the 90's.
iirc, weight and price go like this:
weight, lightest to heaviest
carbon (bst, dymag)
carbon-mag (dymag)
forged mag (OZ, Marvic, Marchesini)
cast mag
forged alu (lightest OZ --> Marchesini --> Carrozzeria heaviest)
oem 5 spokes and other cast alu wheels
last place: brembo 3 spoke with the fattest part of the spoke by the tire.
From motowheels/monster parts data gathering:
Quote:
748-998 wheels:
BST Race CF w/ Ti doodads: Front: 4.4 lbs; Rear: 5.28 lbs
BST Street CF w/ SS doodads: Front: 4.62 lbs; Rear: 5.94 lbs.
OZ Forged Mag/Alu: Front: 7.25 lb., Rear: 8.50 lb. (Same number reported for both alu and mag, so not clear)
Carrozzeria Forged Alu: 7.5 lbs (front), 10.2 lbs (rear)
Ducati 999 Rear Wheel:
Marchesini Forged Magnesium Rear Wheel – 8.60lbs
OZ Forged Alum Rear Wheel – 10.65lbs
Marchesini Forged Alum Rear Wheel – 12.35lbs
DSS Monsters:
Carrozzeria Forged Alu: 7.8 lbs (front), 13.4 lbs (rear)
Quote from: 1.21GW on September 26, 2013, 06:46:49 AM
Oz because as Duh Luv said, they're lighter. I saw something somewhere (maybe on this site?) that listed a variety of wheels by type--Al, Mg, carbon fiber---and had prices, weights, and maybe something on strength. I will try to find and post if I can, but the result of it was I decided that Oz were the ones to get (for Al).
Ask and you shall receive....though this is mostly stock wheels. It might be the page you're looking for.....
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=47036.0;topicseen (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=47036.0;topicseen)
ooo, the wheels i'm trying to get on the ST will drop 3 lbs in the front and 4 in the back :D
If I get another DSS bike, I'll stick to Alpina . . . I might be biased . . . http://alpinawheelsusa.com/ (http://alpinawheelsusa.com/)
I don't do track since there are NO tracks in Panama, love the looks of them on my bike and, why not Marvic, http://www.yoyodyneti.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=2754 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=2754)
or Galespeed, http://www.acv.co.jp/01_product_en/galespeed_w_en.html (http://www.acv.co.jp/01_product_en/galespeed_w_en.html)
or
PVM Wheels, http://www.pvm.de/en/wheels/ (http://www.pvm.de/en/wheels/)
IF I could get new wheels for the Monster
http://pvm.de/de/raeder/5-speichen-schmiederad-neo-klassik-hinterrad/ (http://pvm.de/de/raeder/5-speichen-schmiederad-neo-klassik-hinterrad/)
(http://pvm.de/images/products/large/raeder/5sp_neoklassik_hinterrad.jpg)
Quote from: JohnEE on September 26, 2013, 09:46:17 AM
Ask and you shall receive....though this is mostly stock wheels. It might be the page you're looking for.....
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=47036.0;topicseen (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=47036.0;topicseen)
Thanks! So based on that and some info from Dub Luv on that same page, I would be dropping ~9.5 lbs from my wheels (5 back, 4.5 front)!!
So back to OP: what am I looking at for labor $$ on wheel/tyre replacing, ballpark?
Not sure what bike you have but when I had my S2R, I had OZ wheels on them and loved them. They will completely transform the bike and the riding experience. Get ready for a lot of ;D's. They are super light and look fantastic on the bike. When I did mine, I put new rubber, chain and rear sprocket, and brake calipers and called it a day. Wish I had the foresight to do the swingarm as well. PVM's are rare and would look good as well. I just had too hard of a time sourcing them from a US distributor finding a international distributor to respond. March. also has a 7 spoke wheel that might look sexy on a SSS bike, but I can't remember what they are called (Paging Raux - think he listed them on the forum a while back when the announcement was made).
Here's what they look like in real life -
(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy51/wbamiduro/Project%20Stealth/DSC_0575.jpg)
(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy51/wbamiduro/Project%20Stealth/DSC_0579.jpg)
http://pvm.de/de/raeder/ (http://pvm.de/de/raeder/)
Quote from: Raux on September 26, 2013, 12:14:42 PM
http://pvm.de/de/raeder/ (http://pvm.de/de/raeder/)
Damn you and Darkmonster620 and all your german links. Ich nicht sprachen Deutche! ;)
Quote from: 1.21GW on September 26, 2013, 12:28:35 PM
Damn you and Darkmonster620 and all your german links. Ich nicht sprachen Deutche! ;)
there's a little brit flag on the site... click it and it magically changes everything to the King's English.
Quote from: 1.21GW on September 26, 2013, 12:28:35 PM
Damn you and Darkmonster620 and all your german links. Ich nicht sprachen Deutche! ;)
wie Raux gesacht hat, machct click auf den British Flag und voila, English wird gelessen . . . ;D
or as Raux said:
Quote from: Raux on September 26, 2013, 12:45:59 PM
there's a little brit flag on the site... click it and it magically changes everything to the King's English.
I just got got wood looking at an inanimate object....... nice wheels! [Dolph]
Quote from: Raux on September 26, 2013, 12:14:42 PM
http://pvm.de/de/raeder/ (http://pvm.de/de/raeder/)
[thumbsup]
Those classics are very "Campy". Too bad I don't have a Pantah anymore. 8) Nothing for an M796, right? If they did, I'd have to find my ski mask. ;D
i have nothing useful to add to this thread, but I like the oz's i had on my last subaru!
also, if you've got a red bike, i'm pretty sure the reseller's contractually obligated to sell you the gold, and only the gold wheels.
dont worry, it'll look sweet. [thumbsup]
I had OZs on my old 748...they're awesome. DO IT! [thumbsup]
Quote from: Barney on September 26, 2013, 08:11:43 PM
i have nothing useful to add to this thread, but I like the oz's i had on my last subaru!
also, if you've got a red bike, i'm pretty sure the reseller's contractually obligated to sell you the gold, and only the gold wheels.
dont worry, it'll look sweet. [thumbsup]
I have a yellow bike, so the gold will work perfectly. But I agree, gold on red somehow works nicely. ;)
Anyone able to suggest how much $$ for labor? Or powdercoating DSS?
Okay, so I got a little money for end of year bonus and am thinking about the wheels again. Two questions for the hoi polloi:
1) If I order new wheels and then have a shop put on new tires, can I put the wheels on the bike myself or do they still need some kind of balancing, etc after the fact. I've removed and reattached the rear before (to put on new chain) and have removed and reattached the front wheel on another bike, so I'm comfortable in my mechanical abilities there. I just want to know if there is some specific techniques/tools/alignment for a new wheel/tire that would require some level of expertise that I don't have. Or is it exactly the same as if I took off the old wheel and put it back on?
2) Where to buy? (Reminder: looking at the Oz Piega forged Al for my 2001 900s) I was planning on Bellisimoto, but they're no longer a DMF sponsor and I would greatly prefer to send money towards a DMF sponsor, if possible.
They should balance the wheel and tire assembly during the mount process. Try some dyna-beads. Other than making sure the Sprocket is square with the chain its pretty simple.
1. Balancing is part of tire installation. Just re-install on your bike like you normally would.
2. I got my OZs at Moto Wheels. [thumbsup]
You will likely have to buy a new sprocket, so keep that in mind.
Don't swap sides with your front brake rotors when installing on the new wheels.
It's not a deal breaker, it'll just insure that you retain best braking performance.
http://www.brooklynmoto.com/servicemain.html (http://www.brooklynmoto.com/servicemain.html)
Marc is the best Ducati tech in NYC. Studied under Irish Mike.
PC
http://www.yellowpages.com/brooklyn-ny/mip/pride-powder-coating-inc-475205907?lid=475205907 (http://www.yellowpages.com/brooklyn-ny/mip/pride-powder-coating-inc-475205907?lid=475205907)
http://www.yellowpages.com/bronx-ny/mip/bay-powder-coating-28727036?lid=28727036 (http://www.yellowpages.com/bronx-ny/mip/bay-powder-coating-28727036?lid=28727036)
Haha! Memper, I actually forgot that I wanted to powdercoat the swing arm. You actually reminded me. [thumbsup]
I have the Carrozzeria wheels on a DSS bike and it feels considerable lighter. Even so before mounting tires on them. Good bang for the buck in my book. MonsterParts took care of me. And they look bad ass.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/grubbywarrior/9EA4FC19-798A-425A-A41E-E6B4B021DA48-2439-000002A9C7B83196-1.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/grubbywarrior/media/9EA4FC19-798A-425A-A41E-E6B4B021DA48-2439-000002A9C7B83196-1.jpg.html)
GRUBBY: I'm going with Oz over Carrozzeria because: see earlier posts on weight.
Can someone confirm that these are right for my '01 M900S?
Rear:
http://motowheels.com/i-6922875-oz-motorbike-piega-forged-aluminum-rear-wheel-ducati-02-and-older-monster-696-mts620-st-gt1000-sport-classic-paul-smart.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6922875-oz-motorbike-piega-forged-aluminum-rear-wheel-ducati-02-and-older-monster-696-mts620-st-gt1000-sport-classic-paul-smart.html)
Front:
http://motowheels.com/i-6922820-oz-motorbike-piega-forged-aluminum-front-wheel-ducati-monster-02-st-ss99-mh900e-748-998.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6922820-oz-motorbike-piega-forged-aluminum-front-wheel-ducati-monster-02-st-ss99-mh900e-748-998.html)
Motowheels page says the front is for Monsters '02+, but they come up when I search with my bike model/year. The size (I think) is correct at 17 x 3.5, so I should be good, no?
That front looks correct, your '01 M900S had a 25mm front axle.
That rear does not look correct, as all of the bikes on the list have 25mm axles, *except* the '01 M900.
IMO, you need this wheel:
http://motowheels.com/i-6922896-oz-motorbike-piega-forged-aluminum-rear-wheel-ducati-93-01-monster-all-ss-851-888.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6922896-oz-motorbike-piega-forged-aluminum-rear-wheel-ducati-93-01-monster-all-ss-851-888.html)
Thanks, Speeddog! I will confirm with them whenever I call.
I started going through my old posts and I found my actual weights of my OZ wheels
DSS 25mm front 17mm rear
front 7.0lbs
rear 11.6lbs w/cush, sprocket carrier, and sprocket carrier hardware.
2.5 lbs heavier than a set of BSTs
Since I have to get a new sprocket for the rear wheel, any strong reason I should go to 14/42 from standard (15/39 i think)?
I've read some posts suggesting it's a popular mod. That said, I've never had a problem with my current ratio, but I don't have a lot of experience riding on other bikes so I don't really have comparative experience to know what I'm missing.
Sure, but why not 15/41 if you have to buy a rear? How old is the chain? I'd do both sprockets anyway.
Yeah, will do both.
Chain is 1 yr (2500mi).
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 16, 2014, 07:31:24 PM
Since I have to get a new sprocket for the rear wheel, any strong reason I should go to 14/42 from standard (15/39 i think)?
I've read some posts suggesting it's a popular mod. That said, I've never had a problem with my current ratio, but I don't have a lot of experience riding on other bikes so I don't really have comparative experience to know what I'm missing.
One down on the front AND three up on the back is a big step down in gearing, roughly 14 per cent. You would get an extra 500rpm @70mph in top gear, and 14 per cent more torque in all gears.
I went just one tooth up at the rear on mine for a while, and it was certainly noticeable. Wouldn't want to have done any more. But it was 15-43 stock, and I like that easy top-gear lope. Plenty of people seem to go to 14-42 or 14-43 on the eight-valvers. Good if you are doing mainly around town and twisties, I suppose.
15/41 works really well on my carbie 900.
Your primary and trans gearing is slightly different so that might not work for you.
I would think 14/42 would be kind of buzzy on the highway.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 17, 2014, 05:03:14 AM
15/41 works really well on my carbie 900.
Your primary and trans gearing is slightly different so that might not work for you.
I would think 14/42 would be kind of buzzy on the highway.
What was your carbie 900 stock?
Also: buzzy?
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 17, 2014, 06:57:40 AM
What was your carbie 900 stock?
Also: buzzy?
It was 15/39.
Revving too high at highway speeds resulting in too much vibration for comfort over a long distance on the slab.
my original was 15/48 now running 14/48 . . . love it in the city, not for long runs . . .
Quote from: ducpainter on January 17, 2014, 05:03:14 AM
15/41 works really well on my carbie 900.
Did some more sprocket reading. According to Bikey Boy Brad's chart (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html)) I'm at 4712rpm in 6th at 70 mph, assuming I am stock (15/39---I have to check and make sure PO didn't change), which similar to your 15/41 @ 4806, DP.
My issue isn't really low gear pull in city/suburbs. In fact, I don't really have any issues other than the fact that 5th is kinda useless for my riding: I'm either in 4th (for pull) or 6th (for MPG and relative smoothness) on highway, 1st-3rd everywhere else.
But seeing as I've ridden very few bikes in my life, I wanted to consider changing something for the learning experience if not performance upgrade/change. I can always go back. That said, I think I'm fine with my ratio.
Thanks to input here and on copious older threads. I feel 0.00001% smarter! [thumbsup]
Maybe ride a similar bike with shorter gearing when you won't need skis to do that? 8)
On the newer Monsters 14T is very popular as it's a cheap fix for VERY tall gearing. On my 796, 6th was almost useless under 80 MPH, and with stock fueling, the bike is pretty rough under 4,000 RPM. No idea how this applies to an older 900 like yours.
Some bikes cry for it and some don't (or can handle the tall stock gearing). Out of eight Ducatis I've owned, two cried for it.
And my point was... As you are changing everything, better to go with 15 up front and a compatible increase in the rear which roughly equals a 14T up front. In theory a 15 will wear the chain less... YMMV
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 21, 2014, 07:20:08 PM
Did some more sprocket reading. According to Bikey Boy Brad's chart (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html)) I'm at 4712rpm in 6th at 70 mph, assuming I am stock (15/39---I have to check and make sure PO didn't change), which similar to your 15/41 @ 4806, DP.
My issue isn't really low gear pull in city/suburbs. In fact, I don't really have any issues other than the fact that 5th is kinda useless for my riding: I'm either in 4th (for pull) or 6th (for MPG and relative smoothness) on highway, 1st-3rd everywhere else.
But seeing as I've ridden very few bikes in my life, I wanted to consider changing something for the learning experience if not performance upgrade/change. I can always go back. That said, I think I'm fine with my ratio.
Thanks to input here and on copious older threads. I feel 0.00001% smarter! [thumbsup]
Thanks for the link. Hadn't seen that. Although I don't think my 15/43 S4Rs is doing 4647rpm @ 70mph. Either that or the tacho is a few hundred off.
Another interesting chart on that page is the small table that gives the percentages between gears. On the standard gearbox, 5th to 6th is 11 per cent.
That is roughly equivalent to going from your 15/39 sprocket set to a 14/40 or 14/41.
So ... if you want to know how your bike would feel in sixth with that change, just try riding it around in fifth for a while. ;D
(BTW, 14/42 is an even division, and so likely to attract more rapid wear, or so I've read. For that reason, I doubt it's a popular choice. I wonder whether the popular mod you are thinking of is just to go up on the rear only, to 15/42.)
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 21, 2014, 07:20:08 PM
Did some more sprocket reading. According to Bikey Boy Brad's chart (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html)) I'm at 4712rpm in 6th at 70 mph, assuming I am stock (15/39---I have to check and make sure PO didn't change), which similar to your 15/41 @ 4806, DP.
My issue isn't really low gear pull in city/suburbs. In fact, I don't really have any issues other than the fact that 5th is kinda useless for my riding: I'm either in 4th (for pull) or 6th (for MPG and relative smoothness) on highway, 1st-3rd everywhere else.
But seeing as I've ridden very few bikes in my life, I wanted to consider changing something for the learning experience if not performance upgrade/change. I can always go back. That said, I think I'm fine with my ratio.
Thanks to input here and on copious older threads. I feel 0.00001% smarter! [thumbsup]
If what you currently have works for you, don't change it just to follow the herd.
IMO, only having to drop one gear to pass would be handy but you would have higher rpms in top gear, and you might not like that.
I want to keep my setup the way it is, so I just checked my bike and I actually have 14/38. Guess the PO made a change. (Not a common ratio, but I double- and triple-checked it. I am assuming that it is the teeth (spikes) on the sprocket I am supposed to be counting.)
Anyway, I see that 14/38 and 15/41 are roughly the same RPM @ 70 according to Bikeboy's page. I have two questions now:
1. I am inclined to do 15/41 because I've read some places that the 14 front can put more stress on the chain or create swingarm wear due to tight angle. Opinions on this?
2. However, my chain (DID 520 VX2) is ~1 yr old and has 2000 miles, so I'd like to keep it is possible. Am I correct to assume the move from 14/38 to 15/41 would require a new chain?
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 25, 2014, 08:10:33 AM
I want to keep my setup the way it is, so I just checked my bike and I actually have 14/38. Guess the PO made a change. (Not a common ratio, but I double- and triple-checked it. I am assuming that it is the teeth (spikes) on the sprocket I am supposed to be counting.)
Yes, it is the teeth (spikes) that you are supposed to be counting.
Might be worth a quadruple check. 14/38 suggests the PO went down one on the front, decided that was too low and so corrected a bit by going down a single tooth on the rear. Possible, but doesn't sound very likely.
Compared with ... 14/39. Stereotypical Duc gearing change: one down on the front.
Not sure on the chain but I imagine that yes, you would need to get a longer chain or add a few links to the chain you have.
BTW: Another advantage of going to bigger sprockets is extra chain clearance near the swingarm pivot area. If you really are running 14/38, that clearance must be fairly tight, I'd have thought.
Quote from: Moronic on January 26, 2014, 03:04:44 AM
Might be worth a quadruple check. 14/38 suggests the PO went down one on the front, decided that was too low and so corrected a bit by going down a single tooth on the rear. Possible, but doesn't sound very likely.
Yeah, thought the same thing. Doesn't matter, though, since it's coming off. I'm going to order 15/41.
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 25, 2014, 08:10:33 AM
I want to keep my setup the way it is, so I just checked my bike and I actually have 14/38. Guess the PO made a change. (Not a common ratio, but I double- and triple-checked it. I am assuming that it is the teeth (spikes) on the sprocket I am supposed to be counting.)
Anyway, I see that 14/38 and 15/41 are roughly the same RPM @ 70 according to Bikeboy's page. I have two questions now:
1. I am inclined to do 15/41 because I've read some places that the 14 front can put more stress on the chain or create swingarm wear due to tight angle. Opinions on this?
2. However, my chain (DID 520 VX2) is ~1 yr old and has 2000 miles, so I'd like to keep it is possible. Am I correct to assume the move from 14/38 to 15/41 would require a new chain?
Hey, as of right now, I installed on a customer's M620 5 speed a 15/38 combination, because he needs to travel long distances, he says that he loves it, but, would like to have the oomp of the bike when he brought it to me and keep the fuel economy, so, I told him I could go 15/41 but, no more on the rear, so, yes, if you have 14/38, go 15 front and enjoy the chain for an extra 8 000 miles at least.
Personally I don't like to add new links to used chains. but yes, 15/38 is gonna work but,, you will loose a lot of driveability on low RPMs . . .
Ok, just about ready to order. Going to get a new chain and do 15/41.
Question: Need to get a chain breaker/riveter---anyone have a preferred recommendation?
http://ca-cycleworks.com/products/garage-accessories/mp08-0470 (http://ca-cycleworks.com/products/garage-accessories/mp08-0470) will be fine. Before breaking the chain grind off the head of the rivet. You can also buy your chain and sprockets from our friend at Ca-Cycleworks. Quick turn around and they know what fits [thumbsup]
Thanks, Howie. Will order shortly. [thumbsup]
Wheels and rear sprocket ordered from Motowheels. [thumbsup] Ordering chain breaker, chain, and front sprocket from Ca-Cycleworks. Also ordered a Shorai battery and timing belts from Monsterparts, so I'm really spreading the sponsor love this month. [bacon]
I'm sure I will be back on this thread in a month or two with install questions...
So later after I ordered, Matt at Motowheels called me back to let me know that they actually have these near-new Marchesini Mag wheels also available (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65753.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65753.0)). They pulled them from a project bike and so he let me know in case I wanted a lighter wheel at roughly the same price as the Oz I ordered.
I am wondering whether to get them or not. I don't do a lot of track days (maybe 1/yr) but also don't ride city much. I mainly do country roads and the like on weekends. Is this too much wheel for me? I've read some web discussions about mags not being strong enough for street use (i.e. potholes), but I'm not convinced that it is a real concern (else there would be uproar and lawsuits, no?).
Thoughts from the educated peanut gallery? Stick w/ Oz Forg AL or go with March Forg Mg?
Oh man--- DO IT!!!!!
IMO it's a wash as far as the weight thing goes.
If the used wheels are perfect then I'd go for them. If they're unpainted with just the chromate coating I'd pass and get the OZ. Chromate is not very durable. Magnesium also corrodes very quickly so if the chromate, or paint is chipped it might be a problem down the road.
I've been told that Magnesium wheels can be high maintenance, as any scratches in the finish need to be repaired asap. Someone who knows more can chime in...just something to think about.
Personally I'd go with the OZ.
I've run my *cast* Mag Marchesinis for ~40k miles on California roads (which are not bad).
They're still round and true.
Thanks for not all agreeing! >:(
Seriously though, I think it comes down to used versus new. I'll chat with Matt tomorrow about exactly what the provenance of the wheels is and if there are any doubts, I'm going with the Oz. In either case, major weight savings from OEM (I have the heavy 3-spoke Brembos) so I'm going to enjoy whatever I end up with.
Quote from: SpikeC on January 27, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Oh man--- DO IT!!!!!
I DO find enthusiasm a convincing argument, though. [cheeky]
For the record, does anyone know the weight difference between the two? I see Oz is 7.5/12.0 F/R; can't confirm but March is (maybe) 6/9ish?
Some weights:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=47036.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=47036.0)
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 27, 2014, 06:28:22 PM
<snip> In either case, major weight savings from OEM (I have the heavy 3-spoke Brembos) so I'm going to enjoy whatever I end up with.
<snip>
^^^^^
This.
Went with the OZ.
I elected to go with new wheels, given the noise (most of it likely wrong) about effects of scratches & wear on Mags. As noted, the weight loss is substantial (~9 lbs from OEM, equivalent to ~36 lbs sprung weight) and given that I don't have a ton of experience (2 years, 6000 miles) and only do about 1 track day a year, I think the OZ is more than enough for my level.
Thanks again, folks. [thumbsup]
Congratulations! Those should make you quite happy. I am hoping to get some new wheels as well so I watch these threads pretty carefully. Although I have to admit getting anything other than the CF BST wheels may be difficult.
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 28, 2014, 11:19:05 AM
Went with the OZ.
I elected to go with new wheels, given the noise (most of it likely wrong) about effects of scratches & wear on Mags. As noted, the weight loss is substantial (~9 lbs from OEM, equivalent to ~36 lbs sprung weight) and given that I don't have a ton of experience (2 years, 6000 miles) and only do about 1 track day a year, I think the OZ is more than enough for my level.
Thanks again, folks. [thumbsup]
Never saw a set of corroded mag wheels eh? :-*
I would not likely buy another set of magnesium wheels as I had them on my Buell. Went over a bad expansion joint on a bridge on Highway 18 once and the hit bent the front wheel so badly it immediately flattened the front tire. When the back hit the wheel bent badly enough to peel the back tire halfway off the rim.
The result was that at 70mph I went across two lanes of oncoming traffic missing both vehicles by not more than a few feet. Ended up sitting on the tank as the bike flew over the downhill median at Waterman Canyon. Somehow I got it stopped right before hitting the mountain. Funny thing is that road was my own backyard and usually I took the turn much faster. I was on the way to dinner and wearing bluejeans so I was just cruising up and took a different line than usual.
Scared the piss out of me. But in the end I swore I would never ride mags again. I am not sure if CF BST wheels would have fared any better. Caltrans never paid for the wheels either as they claimed it was an unreported defect. Liars! My CHP riding buddy had reported that crack six months previous when he flatted out both tires on his R-1. He did not however bend the wheels so I can't convince myself that lightweight Mag wheels are good for a street bike.
Sorry for the long story. However, I am interested in hearing other peoples thoughts on this.
Quote from: Skybarney on January 29, 2014, 10:33:46 AM
~~~SNIP~~~
Sorry for the long story. However, I am interested in hearing other peoples thoughts on this.
Which magnesium wheels did you have on the Buell?
The stock ones. XB9R came with Brembo made magnesium wheels. Due to the single brake disk there was no alternative to using them.
Ok guys, I need to order tires for the new wheels. I've done my reading and am going to get the Pilot Road 2. Can someone help confirm the tire sizes I need to order?
What I think I need is:
Rear = 180/55/17
Front = 120/60/17
I'd go with a 120/70 front. That size usually came stock except for the smaller displacement bikes, and some early SS bikes.
If the rear is a 5.5" rim the 180 will be the ticket.
Regarding the tire choice, those get great reviews.
I'd go with a 120/70.
Got it. Thanks guys.
Ok, my plan was to take off the swing arm and get it powder coated black when I replaced the rear wheel. Now I'm thinking it may be more a PITA to remove than I thought and so will probably wait until next winter to get that done. In the interim, and while I have the wheel off, can I poor-man paint the DSS using spray paint? Not looking to win any design/build contests, just looking to make it black.
I've used refrigerator spray paint to blacken a chrome (?) car grill before, and that lasted a few years before it started to chip, which would be fine for me in this case. That's what I'm thinking of going with here, but wanted input from those that actually know stuff about stuff. FTR, my DSS is aluminum because I have an S. Doubt that matters but thought I'd throw it out there in case it does.
Clean it as best you can.
Rough it up a bit with scotchbrite.
Clean it again.
Mask off what you don't want painted.
Hit it with Krylon.
Lately, the non-glossy variants are a good bit shinier than in the past.
Current 'satin' is more like 'semi-gloss' IMO.
Hit a sample panel first to see how you like it.
Howdy folks. I'm mid-install and have a cush drive question:
I assume this is my cush drive:
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/CUSH_zps4a837ab7.jpg)
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/CUSH_back_zps65e73e66.jpg)
But as you can see in the first picture, there is no cushioning aspect. I thought I'd seen black rubber-y material in other versions of cush drives for other bikes. Am I missing something?
Second question is that it does not slide into the wheel easily:
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/CUSH_close_up_zpsd7623063.jpg)
How do I get it in without forcing it? Should I be using a lubricant?
Ok, from further research, it looks like my cush drive is integrated into the wheel. That black thing that I can't get installed is a rear sprocket flange.
Question still remains on how to get it in without forcing it. Lube? Rubber mallet?
Grease the pins that fit into the inserts of the rubber bushings.
If that doesn't make it slip in easily, you could loosen the pins to see if the tolerance in the holes has something misaligned, then tighten things back up after you get it to fit. If you loosen anything make sure to re-apply locktite. You don't want then loosening up.
edit...
I just noticed those nuts are not tight because you need to install the sprocket. That would indicate the pins are threaded into the carrier. Grease the pins and tap it home with a rubber mallet. It shouldn't take much tapping. If it does check with the supplier or manufacturer.
I have nothing to add other than those wheels look awesome. Completely make the beast with two backsing awesome [bacon]
Looking real good! You're going to love those wheels. Lube lightly with a suitable grease and tap in with your palm or a piece of wood. Don't force anything. Make sure that center black piece fits into the bearing nicely. I lightly lubed the dust seal contact area to tame the squeak. Make sure the pre-installed sprocket flange pins that fit into the cush pieces are torqued and loctited (I don't recall if my OZ wheels came with those pins pre-torqued or just threaded in to keep them in place). Torque and loctite your NEW sprocket in place per specs. I torqued the pins to the sprocket flange and the sprocket to the flange with the assembly off the bike. Remember that you'll be removing that entire assembly again when you replace your tires, so it needs to come off/on without much drama - the sprocket will give some lever action to facilitate removal. The tolerances are tighter on these OZ wheels than the old OE stuff you removed, so things can initially be a bit snug.
BK
Grease and a little tapping got it in. Thanks DP and BK!
Quote from: BK_856er on March 08, 2014, 03:14:45 PM
The tolerances are tighter on these OZ wheels than the old OE stuff you removed, so things can initially be a bit snug.
Funny you mention that because I'm having a problem...
The wheel just seems too wide. The nuts on the sprocket side are really close to the swingarm and are in fact hitting the edge of the gold chain adjustment end cap. [bang]
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/RW_sprocket_zpsa5490b08.jpg)
There is a little gap between the spacer on the brake side and the bracket that holds the caliper. Not a great photo but I did my best to adjust lighting so it can be seen.
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/RW_brake2_zpse9a9d156.jpg)
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/RW_brake_zpsf6ba6b1a.jpg)
I'm hoping that that gap can be closed, allowing enough clearance on the sprocket side. But I did a bunch of 'controlled forcing' to get it to close and no luck. :(
Any suggestions?
I think a call to the supplier to verify proper fitment is in order.
I just checked my M695 (different bike! but also aftermarket OZ wheels in 5.5" size) and my clearance between the sprocket nuts and the rear of the STEEL swingarm (not the end adjuster plate, which does not overhang as much as yours) is 4mm.
Is the sprocket flange all the way "home" in the rear wheel? Can yourtorque the axle nuts to snug everything and then check clearances again? Is your rear sprocket aligned to the front sprocket?
Sorry, I'm not expert on the swingarm and other potential differences between years of monsters, my experience is limited to the bikes I own.
BK
Thanks, the 4mm was helpful. I get 2mm from the swingarm and, obviously, 0mm with respect to the adjustment plate.
Also took off the wheel and did more inspection---that gap between the spacer and the caliper bracket ain't closing because there is a bevel on the end of bracket (clearer in the second pic).
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/frustrated_zps139c9a49.jpg)
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/caliper_bracket_zpsa28c63f6.jpg)
So now I'm really stuck. Will need to call Motowheels on Monday. I really really hope I don't have to send them back. Very disappointed. :(
I know it's hard to be so close, and yet so far, so don't rush anything at this point.
Take down the part numbers of the individual pieces so you have all the info when you talk to motowheels (i.e., what you have in hand vs. what you ordered vs. correct fitment). Could be the right wheel but the wrong sprocket flange?
Sounds like maybe a wheel offset issue? Are those axle adjuster plates OE? Are your rear and front sprockets even aligned with the wheel in place? Do you have a bit of thread showing on the sprocket nuts?
Below is a pic of mine showing gap to the sprocket nuts and alignment of the front/rear sprockets. I changed from 4.5" to 5.5" and needed to flip my front sprocket and modify my upper chain slider, but I don't think that applies to you. Apples and oranges, but I provide it as a reference point.
BK
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2n1ribk.jpg)
Also, what's up with the overhang here? Can you just move the adjuster over on the other side to get the required clearance? My OE adjusters don't have nearly that much overhang, but of course mine are later gen for steel swingarm.
BK
(http://i59.tinypic.com/xdgvfn.jpg)
Thanks, BK. Overhang in the picture is just because the adjuster is loose, but when I set it in place (as seen on the sprocket side pic) there is still the issue.
All relevant parts are OEM as far I know. Your suggestion of wrong sprocket flange is a decent candidate. Will know more when I call on Monday. Sigh. So close...
Not familiar with those adjusters, but you can't swap R/L sides to swap the overhang and gain clearance for the sprocket nuts?
It's frustrating now, but it'll be worth it in the end after you get everything squared away [Dolph]
BK
Quote from: BK_856er on March 08, 2014, 07:17:11 PM
Not familiar with those adjusters, but you can't swap R/L sides to swap the overhang and gain clearance for the sprocket nuts?
~~~SNIP~~~
BK
Yes, that's all he needs to do, he's got the adjuster plates on the wrong sides.
If he swaps them, then he will have nut-to-adjuster clearance.
He's got 2mm nut-to-swingarm clearance, and that's fine, My M750 with aluminum swingarm and 5.5 wheel has less than that.
The brake caliper bracket has that little lip because on the OEM wheel, it sits directly against the wheel bearing.
The lip bears on the inner race, and the rest of it has clearance so it doesn't grind up the seal.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 08, 2014, 08:18:27 PM
Yes, that's all he needs to do, he's got the adjuster plates on the wrong sides.
If he swaps them, then he will have nut-to-adjuster clearance.
He's got 2mm nut-to-swingarm clearance, and that's fine, My M750 with aluminum swingarm and 5.5 wheel has less than that.
The brake caliper bracket has that little lip because on the OEM wheel, it sits directly against the wheel bearing.
The lip bears on the inner race, and the rest of it has clearance so it doesn't grind up the seal.
[popcorn]
Waiting for the Homer Simpson Doh!
;D
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Quote from: 1.21GW on March 09, 2014, 06:56:24 AM
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
We have all been there.
Ok. Got it. Too cold to test ride so will have to wait until next week. But here are concerns:
- Front sprocket retention plate screws. I did at 6 Nm (per a tutorial on DMF) with some blue loctite. That enough? I note that LT Snyder uses safety wire but I realized this late and did not have any on hand anyway.
- Chain adjustment bracket. Due to low clearance (2mm) as noted above, I'm worried about the tendency of this to come undone and then get hit by the spinning sprocket. I normally use zipties through the axle opening in the swingarm to secure these brackets, but due to low clearance I'm worried about doing this on the sprocket side. I don't want to use loctite since I need to the screw to be adjustable for the chain. Any ideas on how to secure?
You're fine on the sprocket plate screws.
In my experience, chain adjustment brackets only get into trouble if the bolts aren't snugged down after the axle is tightened.
You could drill a small hole in both the swingarm and bracket on the bottom and safety wire it, I suppose.
Ditto on Speeddogs advice.
Adjust chain...tighten axle...snug up adjusting bolts then lock nuts...ride.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 09, 2014, 11:59:21 AM
Adjust chain...tighten axle...snug up adjusting bolts then lock nuts... WAIT OUT THIS EVERLASTING FRIKKIN WINTER...ride.
fixed. haha
Can any experts out there give me some guidance on torque numbers for: 1) the rear sprocket bolts and 2) the rear brake rotor bolts? I don't my Lt. Snyder manual with me. Also, is loctite (blue?) recommended for either of those?
Quote from: 1.21GW on March 13, 2014, 01:33:04 PM
Can any experts out there give me some guidance on torque numbers for: 1) the rear sprocket bolts and 2) the rear brake rotor bolts? I don't my Lt. Snyder manual with me. Also, is loctite (blue?) recommended for either of those?
Torque values for a somewhat earlier bike here... http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=373.msg2528#msg2528 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=373.msg2528#msg2528)
Assuming they're all 8mm diameter I'd just go 16 ft/lbs.
Most use loctite on rotor bolts. I've used red or none myself. It makes an impact driver a requirement for removal if you loctite them.
Thanks, DP. I have to bookmark that link for future reference.
Just curious, because my bracket calipers closed during install and so I had to push the pistons back. How many rotations should a rear wheel turn if I spin it when up on a rear stand? I'm worried brake pads may be a little too engaged.
Opposed piston calipers will have some drag, how much is hard to explain to you on the internet. Depending on strength and speed of your spin I would say 1-3 rotations.
Now that I have the new wheels on, do these old heavy Brembos have any use? Can I sell them or even give them away? Is it wise to keep around in case something happens (I don't have a lot of storage space)?
They probably don't have a lot of value.
You can try...you never know.
You could always knock out the bearings and sell them as scrap if you don't get any takers. They were worth about 70-80 cents a pound at last months prices.
If you have the room it is not a bad idea to keep them since you might not get a replacement that quickly. I could use a front if it is in good shape.
Quote from: howie on April 02, 2014, 12:40:04 PM
If you have the room it is not a bad idea to keep them since you might not get a replacement that quickly. I could use a front if it is in good shape.
Front is yours. Shape is good, just old.
Thanks, I owe you a bunch of [beer] We will both have a spare in my garage. I can store the rear for you if you like.
We'll figure it out over beers at the next Matchless night.
Just to complete the story, here they are installed. Painted the swingarm, too. Thanks all for the help! Taking a bit to get used too because bike turns so easily, but in any case I love 'em. ;D
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/_20140406_131053_zpse951ad20.jpg)
They really look great on your bike!